Eating Kosher on NCL

[Ba' Datz]

WOW, thank you for the enlightenment. What do they do for that 25 hour period? Sleep? I can't begin to imagine not having a light, car, computer, etc for that long of a time span. Do they eat their meals cold? Any idea of the number of "Orthodox Jews" that practice this? All the questions buzzing in my head, again, WOW!

 

Welcome to the world of Orthodox Jewry.

 

No, we do not sleep all the time. We pray, eat, meet family, read, play games with our children, take walks, study the bible and other holy scriptures, and a lot of other things.

 

You would be amazed as to how calming it can be to be away from computers, I phones, internet, TV, smoking etc, once a week

 

As to lighting and heating up food, let's just say that there are ways to do this without violating Sabbath regulations so we don't have to sit in the dark and eat cold food.

 

As to how many Orthodox Jews there are, my guess would put it at about two million world wide

 

Believe me being Orthodox is not as hard as it sounds

[agabbymama]

Welcome to the world of Orthodox Jewry.

 

No, we do not sleep all the time. We pray, eat, meet family, read, play games with our children, take walks, study the bible and other holy scriptures, and a lot of other things.

 

You would be amazed as to how calming it can be to be away from computers, I phones, internet, TV, smoking etc, once a week

 

As to lighting and heating up food, let's just say that there are ways to do this without violating Sabbath regulations so we don't have to sit in the dark and eat cold food.

 

As to how many Orthodox Jews there are, my guess would put it at about two million world wide

 

Believe me being Orthodox is not as hard as it sounds

 

That's easy for you to say, you've lived it your whole life. I was just thinking about when we have a power outage and our World goes dark. Nothing works, not the phone, computer, TV, lights, etc. And from about 5:00 on there was no reading, and I certainly wouldn't walk out on the streets in my neighborhood after dark with no lighting. It was a very long night with absolutely nothing you could do.

 

I didn't realize that was part of the Orthodox Jewry. I knew your Sabbath started on Friday night at Sundown, but didn't realize quite the extent of it.

Again, thank you for expanding my knowledge.

[njhorseman]

That's easy for you to say, you've lived it your whole life. I was just thinking about when we have a power outage and our World goes dark. Nothing works, not the phone, computer, TV, lights, etc. And from about 5:00 on there was no reading, and I certainly wouldn't walk out on the streets in my neighborhood after dark with no lighting. It was a very long night with absolutely nothing you could do.

 

I didn't realize that was part of the Orthodox Jewry. I knew your Sabbath started on Friday night at Sundown, but didn't realize quite the extent of it.

Again, thank you for expanding my knowledge.

 

As was noted in an earlier post, there are ways around the restrictions. For example, you can have automatic timers hooked up to lamps at home so that they come on at the appropriate time. There are coffemakers that have automatic timers on them. You can set them up before sundown and have your coffee ready in the morning. And street lights are still on of course...it isn't like this is an outage in the electrical system...it's not as if the world around you will be dark.

[agabbymama]

As was noted in an earlier post, there are ways around the restrictions. For example, you can have automatic timers hooked up to lamps at home so that they come on at the appropriate time. There are coffemakers that have automatic timers on them. You can set them up before sundown and have your coffee ready in the morning. And street lights are still on of course...it isn't like this is an outage in the electrical system...it's not as if the world around you will be dark.

 

Ah Ha, there are ways around the rules???:rolleyes: Even if you set the timers, you are still actually accountable for starting them. I was picturing truly NOT using these devices at all.

 

There are a lot of different ways of life. I visited an Amish village/farm last year, and also found their lifestyle amazing!

[Froggitt]

Timers can be set for lights, TV, cookers etc. Also you can use a "slow cooker" to keep stew cooking overnight, have a hotplate left on all day to keep food warm, and you can keep water boiling in an urn for hot drinks.....but you cant add more cold water to the water boiler/urn as you would be causing it to heat it up cold water!!! Also you can have other people cook for you or switch things on, or open a door on a ship.

 

Coffee.....dont ask......you need to cool the boiling water a bit so it doesnt "cook" the coffee, which it does at boiling point.

 

Lights.....you must avoid walking under motion sensitive lights that you will switch on by your movement, but you can walk under lights already switched on.

 

Amish......they have it easy!!!

[agabbymama]

Timers can be set for lights, TV, cookers etc. Also you can use a "slow cooker" to keep stew cooking overnight, have a hotplate left on all day to keep food warm, and you can keep water boiling in an urn for hot drinks.....but you cant add more cold water to the water boiler/urn as you would be causing it to heat it up cold water!!! Also you can have other people cook for you or switch things on, or open a door on a ship.

 

Coffee.....dont ask......you need to cool the boiling water a bit so it doesnt "cook" the coffee, which it does at boiling point.

 

Lights.....you must avoid walking under motion sensitive lights that you will switch on by your movement, but you can walk under lights already switched on.

 

Amish......they have it easy!!!

 

I don't know about the Amish having it easy. I saw the women out with horse & plow tilling the fields, no electricity at all, doing laundry by hand, and actually hanging it on a clothesline ??? And I'm sure there is a lot more we didn't see in our short 2 hour visit.

[Froggitt]

Actually I agree with you!!

[bones774]

A quick point about having other people turn lights on for you as previously stated, I live in a mixed Orthodox and Conservative Jewish neighborhood, an Orthodox Jew asked me to turn lights on in his home and when he found out I was Jewish also (but not observant) he could not let me turn the lights on. Interesting.

[Ba' Datz]

Ah Ha, there are ways around the rules???:rolleyes: Even if you set the timers, you are still actually accountable for starting them. I was picturing truly NOT using these devices at all. quote]

 

The key to using a timer is that it has to be set before the Sabbath begins. This is not usually done for entertainment devices like TV or computers but for more essential items. This is not getting around the rules. It is fully understanding the rules and using them as permitted. Like I said the books concerning the Sabbath rules could fill a library

 

The Sabbath is a time of rest and enjoyment with ones family to give thanks for his place on earth and to bless the Lord for His creation. It is not meant to be a weekly time travel trip back to the dark ages

[Ba' Datz]

The key to using a timer is that it has to be set before the Sabbath begins. This is not usually done for entertainment devices like TV or computers but for more essential items. This is not getting around the rules. It is fully understanding the rules and using them as permitted. Like I said the books concerning the Sabbath rules could fill a library

 

The Sabbath is a time of rest and enjoyment with ones family to give thanks for his place on earth and to bless the Lord for His creation. It is not meant to be a weekly time travel trip back to the dark ages

***

[erdoran]

The key to using a timer is that it has to be set before the Sabbath begins. This is not usually done for entertainment devices like TV or computers but for more essential items. This is not getting around the rules. It is fully understanding the rules and using them as permitted. Like I said the books concerning the Sabbath rules could fill a library

 

The Sabbath is a time of rest and enjoyment with ones family to give thanks for his place on earth and to bless the Lord for His creation. It is not meant to be a weekly time travel trip back to the dark ages

***

 

Badatz, not to be snarky but your posting is during Shabbat!

[Dm84]

***

 

Badatz, not to be snarky but your posting is during Shabbat!

Except he lives in Israel, where Shabbat ended before he posted.

[Dm84]

Badatz, not to be snarky but your posting is during Shabbat!

Except he lives in Israel, where Shabbat ended before he posted.

[erdoran]

Except he lives in Israel, where Shabbat ended before he posted.

WHEW!!! I knew there was a good explanation, and I'm glad I asked so others who were wondering understand the anomaly!!

[Ba' Datz]

***

 

Badatz, not to be snarky but your posting is during Shabbat!

 

I am not sure what "snarky" means but I am located in Israel and it was definitely after Shabbat!!!!!!!! :):)

[erdoran]

Badatz, not to be snarky but your posting is during Shabbat!

 

I am not sure what "snarky" means but I am located in Israel and it was definitely after Shabbat!!!!!!!! :):)

 

Snarky is similar to critical, and I didn't want my post taken that way. I can see how very observant you are and am respectful of that, but was puzzled to see a post from you during Shabbat, especially after you made the point about computers not being used--and I had no idea where you live, but assumed US (dumb, I know). I knew there was a good reason!

[Ba' Datz]

 

Snarky is similar to critical, and I didn't want my post taken that way. I can see how very observant you are and am respectful of that, but was puzzled to see a post from you during Shabbat, especially after you made the point about computers not being used--and I had no idea where you live, but assumed US (dumb, I know). I knew there was a good reason!

 

:):)

[Bubby6]

On the Sabbath, Orthodox Jews refrain from doing anything that is classified as a Melacha, or halachikally defined work. This includes carrying and using electricity, both of which are prohibited on the the Sabbath.

[Ba' Datz]

I thought that I would follow up on a few points that were made on this thread and give a brief review of the Kosher related issues on my cuise to Alaska on May 15th on the Pearl.

 

The food served was from Webermans and ranged from good to very bad. Certain foods did not take well to freezing, defrosting and microwaving and others did. There was a large choice to choose from so you were never hungry. There was no bread available on the menu

 

The maitre D of the Summer Palace MDR, Mr. Adonis Perez was well versed in Kosher procedures and was with was at all lunches and dinners from boarding to disembarkation. We chose the following day's meals from the stock list each evening.

 

The packaging presented a problem as it was hard to open dishes with the cheap plastic cutlery provided. NCL could invest a few more negligible dollars and get a better class cutlery. I did bring it up with the Hotel Director who apologized and said it was a corporate decision. He sent me a bottle of Maneshewitz wine to my cabin (maybe a peace offering)

 

The soups were another issue entirely. Except for the matzo ball soup which came in a bowl, all the others came in a pouch and had to be squeezed out, which caused spritzing in all directions. It became a joke to watch it. But the soups were very good and worth the effort.

 

We ate breakfast at the buffet and sat at the outdoor cafe which was a great start to the day. The Kosher items available were- small packages of Kellogs cereals, Dannone yogurt (OU), milk, apple and orange juice (OU), carnation hot chocolate (OU), individual packets of smuckers jelly (OU, ask the staff to bring it from the MDR, the buffet has open bowls). I asked the buffet Maitre D about the bagels and soft ice cream and he showed me the original packaging with the OU. Additionally the hard ice cream and cones had the OU on display. He also arranged with the chef to give us uncut fruits and melons.

 

As you can see there was plenty to eat but it surely was not gourmet. It was nourishment and that was okay with me as I was not there for the food but for the experience and Alaska itinerary. I did see another post regarding RCCL and their Kosher menu seems to be more varied and interesting than NCL. Maybe next time I will ask the special needs department to see the menus before I make a decision on which line to sail.

 

All in all I was satisfied but in the bottom line I thought that NCL could go a little further to upgrade the Kosher experience. The staff was great but corporate NCL needs to do a beter job

[baruchgershom]

We'll be on Dec 26, 2008 sailing of Jewel with our entire family (18) and plan on kosher food. Anyone else on this cruise doing the same? Any comments on Kosher food service on this ship/line? Anxious to hear of your experiences.

 

I realize that this is too late to help you, but I've traveled twice on NCL and keep strictly kosher. Assuming you hold kashrut to a high level, I will tell you this:

 

You can pre-order kosher meals on NCL -- principally these are double-wrapped "airline" meals (although bigger) made by Weberman caterers in Miami and supervised by the Orthodox Union -- the O-U. On the Gem last week, they also offered a couple of breakfast meals (french toast and waffles) made by a company called Moriah. The individual packages, however, showed no kosher supervision. The boxes may have an appropriate symbol, but we never saw it. If the head waiter doesn't have time to bring it to you to see, ask him to take a photo of the box for your inspection.

 

While there is a pretty good selection of Weberman foods, it can get old. We brought some of our own food aboard, double-wrapped and sealed. The head waiter happily stored it for us and when it was time to use it, he had it heated up and brought to us.

 

With the Weberman foods -- the wrapping is really tough to open with plastic utensils. We brought a small box cutter for that purpose. Great investment.

 

The soft-serve ice cream on board is kosher. NCL is known for bringing aboard Empire cornish hens. Some people have it double-wrapped and cooked for them. We didn't because I'm concerned that non-kosher chicken could be substituted and I wouldn't be able to tell. I did let them double-wrap salmon -- because all salmon is kosher and easy to distinguish from non-kosher fish -- and it was delicious. That's your best order for the first-day lunch because there is no way they will be able to defrost a Weberman meal before departure. Also, we noticed that NCL uses drink mixes for pina coladas, marguiritas and another drink I will misspell even worse, with reliable kosher supervision. We enjoyed those (and the price was very reasonable).

 

Kosherica is bringing groups onto at least two NCL ships this coming year -- the Pearl (operating out of Alaska this summer) and the Epic (out of Barcelona). You may not want to be on the same ship eating your Weberman frozen meals while other kosher guests are fressing in a private dining room, even for the $1000 or so per person you'll save. Check out www.kosherica.com for details.

 

Hope this helps future kosher travelers.

[tokidoki]

Hi, baruchgershom, glad someone added to this thread!!! Actually my husband and I have cruised 10 times in NCL and we always start with lunch! We always insist that we won't eat at the buffet and they tell us to be patient, like 45 minutes, but we wait and there is always plenty of food with several choices! At dinner that night, they have pretty much inventoried the galley and they are constantly adding and subtracting food. My husband however always turns down the doubled-wrapped salmon because if they are using utensils, what are the using? Can you shed any light on how they prepared your salmon anf kept it kosher! We are cruising again next year and any info would help! thanks, BK my email is enzyme87719@mypacks.net:D:D:D

[baruchgershom]

Hi, baruchgershom, glad someone added to this thread!!! Actually my husband and I have cruised 10 times in NCL and we always start with lunch! We always insist that we won't eat at the buffet and they tell us to be patient, like 45 minutes, but we wait and there is always plenty of food with several choices! At dinner that night, they have pretty much inventoried the galley and they are constantly adding and subtracting food. My husband however always turns down the doubled-wrapped salmon because if they are using utensils, what are the using? Can you shed any light on how they prepared your salmon anf kept it kosher! We are cruising again next year and any info would help! thanks, BK my email is enzyme87719@mypacks.net:D:D:D

 

I'm not a rabbi, so I'm giving you my personal analysis. I do have some background, and my wife was a mashgicha for many years -- the kind who was not afraid to investigate deeply or report violations (even when she was off the job and we were guests at someone's simcha; at a Pesach hotel she called out the mashgiach rishon for not checking lettuce for bugs, evident by the dirt on the leaves). You should rely on what your rabbi says. But you might want to share my analysis. OK, I'm going to get a little technical and use Jewish legal terminology -- those who are concerned about keeping this level of kashrut will understand; those who don't, but want to, can ask further questions.

 

First, let's understand that cruise lines are today obsessed with keeping their passengers healthy. That is why you get spritzed with hand sanitizer before going into the Garden Cafe and other restaruants on board, and why hand sanitizers are everywhere. Concern about avoiding mass illness is acute in the galley spaces as well to prevent food-borne illnesses. NCL, as do most large, high-end restaurant kitchens, maintain separate prep stations for vegetables, fish, and meat/chicken. Cutting boards and knives are constantly substituted for clean boards and knives before different items are prepared. Therefore, the same knife and cutting board that was used for lobster, let's say, 10 minutes before, is not going to be used on the salmon being prepared for you. This is NCL's concern for cross-contamination -- not kashrut. Also, since separate prep stations are maintained, you don't have to worry about "sharp" vegetables, like onions, being cut recently with the knife being used on your fish. That knife is going to be cold. This is not to say that this is the practice EVERY TIME they prepare a piece of fish for you, but based on the concept of rov (majority) we can assume that your fish has not been prepared with or on kelim capable of transferring the tam of non-kosher food. But if there were an issue, b'dieved, I would rely on the concept of batul b'shishim. That's the way I'm addressing it.

 

From what I can taste and tell (and my wife was a mashgicha at several kosher restaurants as well as being an excellent cook herself, so I rely a lot on her judgment), the spices used on the salmon for kosher diners is pretty basic (pepper and fresh lemon) and doesn't require kosher supervision.

 

You can ask for a tour of the galley. Certainly, I would recommend you take advantage of any opportunity to meet and speak with the head chef.

 

I hope this helps.

[baruchgershom]

P.G. -- the Head Waiter on the Gem, showed me the training manual NCL uses for kosher service -- it was written by the Chicago Rabbinical Council (which in recent years has reestablished itself as a superior kashrut authority). It looked fairly comprehensive and I'm glad they have it. But some of the assistant maitre d's enjoyed picking my brain about the "whys" behind our rules.

[baruchgershom]

We ate breakfast at the buffet and sat at the outdoor cafe which was a great start to the day. The Kosher items available were- small packages of Kellogs cereals, Dannone yogurt (OU), milk, apple and orange juice (OU), carnation hot chocolate (OU), individual packets of smuckers jelly (OU, ask the staff to bring it from the MDR, the buffet has open bowls). I asked the buffet Maitre D about the bagels and soft ice cream and he showed me the original packaging with the OU. Additionally the hard ice cream and cones had the OU on display. He also arranged with the chef to give us uncut fruits and melons.

 

Be careful with the Dannon Yogurts on board NCL. Only the unflavored variety has an OU, currently.

[jdough789]

P.G. -- the Head Waiter on the Gem, showed me the training manual NCL uses for kosher service -- it was written by the Chicago Rabbinical Council (which in recent years has reestablished itself as a superior kashrut authority). It looked fairly comprehensive and I'm glad they have it. But some of the assistant maitre d's enjoyed picking my brain about the "whys" behind our rules.

We took the Gem to Bermuda (Switched to Bahamas due to hurricanes) 9/11/11. The Kosher meals were not restocked after the past cruise, or two. P.G. was very helpful. But it was head chef Vaughan, who located Kosher meals that were not on the limited menu, and even personally brought and warmed them no the private island. P.G. showed us the inventory lists every dinner, when it came time to order the next days meals. I will bring some food with us for our next cruise just in case.