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Woman missing on the Pearl

wrp96

By wrp96,
in Norwegian Cruise Line

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Suni99

Suni99

Posted
Posted

If someone is missing I would think they would notify the ship/pax...IE= child is missing and/or lost ....with the whole ship looking( keeping their eyes open) for this person the chances are much better of finding them. IMHO the pax were not notified b/c they figured out pretty quickly what had happened.

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faith31617

faith31617

Posted
Posted
The 'pull of the sea' is more common than people realise. Some think it's a form of vertigo that they are getting...but on the whole, when you look down over the rail at the sea, it is hypnotic and yes, it does feel like it's getting closer to you, the longer that you stand and stare at it.

 

Sometimes when you look over the side..or stern as in the shots I took from Gem & Jewel...you can quickly become consumed in that deep blue water...it's gentle lapping noise and warmth can be very inviting...and sometimes the pull can be too much, someone with their own difficulties can see the sea as somewhere to be at peace, enveloped in warmth and safety....the reference to returning to the womb is probably true, afterall we are all water babies at the start of life. The hypnotic effects of the sea from a ship is hard to understand if you have never experienced it first hand...it also makes the perfect 'way out' whether by your own hand...or by someone elses.

 

Thank you for explaining far better than I.

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momofmeg

momofmeg

Posted
Posted
My neighbor committed suicide in his home about 4 years ago...I was not notified,informed, questioned, memo'd or ever asked my personal opinion about it..The neighborhood found out when everyone else did,the next day in the paper..

 

The couple on TV also state.."No,that did not talk to or question any of the paz" How on earth would she know that...I am quite sure the near-by cabins were question as authorities saw fit...

 

I know it is horrific-isn't it? some people who have not experienced that (losing a friend or loved one to suicide) just don't get it. It has to be something more mysterious like murder to them-they just can't comprehend people doing that.

 

My sister's ex husband killed himself about 4 years ago. (shot himself in the head) then about a year and a half ago his niece's daughter killed herself ( overdose of pills) then just two months ago, the girl's mother, my sister's former niece by marriage, shot and killed herself, she had never come to terms with her daughter's suicide and death.

 

All of these were cut and dry cases of suicide-what worries me AND my sister -is it seems to be in the genes-my sister fears that one of her children could do this. Her grandson who is 20-has been diagnosed bi-polar-she REALLY worries about him.

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*Wink*

*Wink*

Posted
Posted
Sorry.I posted this on another thread..Forgot it was not the main thread..

 

Anyway..Whats the deal with the video.I saw it very quickly....But it seemed enough to me that upon review,and some minor enhancement..It should be clear what happend??

What video that you've seen are you referring to?

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TWELVEOHONE

TWELVEOHONE

Posted
Posted
We were just on the Pearl-- and I had commented to my wife-- this is one ship that someone could not just "fall over board". You would have to be drunk and climb on something-- or someone would have to lift you over...

how sad though-- and we will pray for the family.

 

 

This is true with ALL cruise ships.

Railing is too high to just fall over

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LOWTYD

LOWTYD

Posted
Posted
I think it is safe to assume that this issue has been discussed amongst cruise line execs, travel experts and police agencies to decide the best course of action. Regrettably what happened on the Pearl wasn't the first time such a thing has happened, nor is it likely to be the last. Clearly an industry wide protocol is in place. I expect that all of the pro & cons of telling passengers were considered.

 

I expect different protocols exist for different scenarios, including when and when not to turn a ship around, when to tell passengers and how much detail they are to be told.

 

Personally I do not think that passengers have a right to know anything about a ship board incident UNLESS their safety is at risk, it involves a change in itinerary etc. I don't think I have a particular right to know that the poor soul in the cabin next to me died in his sleep, or choked on an olive at the bar, fell down a flight of stairs, or fell overboard etc. It is different if it is immediately obvious it was homicide and the culprit is still at large on the ship. That is a risk to other passengers.

 

It would seem that an immediate and intial assessment of the known facts would be made by on board security to assess any video evidence, witnesses etc. It may well be that the video was watched, and it was obvious that the only person in the cabin at the time was the woman who fell. Other cameras on board could easily confirm when the husband and any other travelling companions went into the cabin and left the cabin. Furthermore, cameras would be able to be viewed to verify where the husband and travelling companions were at various times in the evening. I would expect that should there be any issue that more than one person was in the cabin at the time she went overboard that other person would be kept under observation and away from other passengers until police could speak with them.

 

I think its human nature to want to know, we are all naturally curious but that curiosity doesn't mean a right to know the details involving other passengers.

I have to agree with you on this. Unless you are in harms way, let the passanger go about their business and let the cruise lines do thiers. They have protocol for stuff like this and ,if they made an annoucement, next thing you know you have 20 people saying they "thought" they saw her in the theatre at 10:00 or in the ladies room at 11:15 etc... next thing you know there is a wild goose chase. Sometimes people think they are being helpful but, unless they are 100% absolutely sure, they should butt out. It is human nature to want to know what is going on (who slows down to look at accidents?) I am sure it will all come out eventually. Be paient and you will get your answers.

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DizzyDallasDi

DizzyDallasDi

Posted
Posted

I've been wondering about the pax booked in that room for the next cruise. If the ship sailed with every cabin booked, would they let them move into that cabin? What about compromising evidence that may still be there but not yet found?

 

It would be pretty eerie to know what had happened just a few days before in your cabin.

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TWELVEOHONE

TWELVEOHONE

Posted
Posted

 

If they knew for sure that the women went over board then I agree but if just missing as reported by husband then it may behoove them to make an announcement, someone might know where she is or last seen. On more than one occasion missing people were found somewhere on the ship.

 

I think a missing person not knowing if they fell over or just fell asleep somewhere is much more important than choking on an olive. Remember when someone is missing it does not mean no one know where she or he is but that the person reporting it doesn't know where he or she is. Getting help from the other passenger may or may not be useful.

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mactrio

mactrio

Posted
Posted

A lot of people are saying they would know if their spouse was missing for more than 8 hours and normally I would as well; but when we were vacationing in San Antonio Texas a couple years ago, I got a severe case of food poisoning on Sunday night and ended up in the hospital ER on Tuesday and as sick as I was I had no clue if my hubby & son were with me or not. I slept & vomited non stop for 5 days. After we got home and I saw pictures of everything they did, I realized they were out all day and part of the night and I had no idea where they were or what they were doing.

So IF and yes it is a BIG IF her husband and/or mother were ill; seasick or or just sleeping due to taking medicine (bonine, Dramamine) they might have been sleeping very hard and not have heard her IF she jumped/fell. Then when they woke up and didn't see her in the room; they could have looked all over the ship for a few hours before alerting the ship.

We might never know what happened and I will continue to pray for her family members.

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caednjshore

caednjshore

Posted
Posted

This is a tough one. To notify the passengers or not. Everyone has an opinion. You're dammed if you do and dammed if you don't. What is the current police procedure for missing persons? Do they still wait 24/48 hrs before searching for someone reported missing? I know in the case of a child it is different and circumstances surrounding missing persons also plays a part. Perhaps a brief notification letter to each cabin asking if anyone has any info or has seen the missing passenger. I tend to lean with the thought that if it doesn't pose any pax threat or harm, it is better not to alarm. Also, the idea that pax would be speculating and wasting valuable crew time with a barrage of questions can be a security concern. All in all, this is a terrible and unfortunate tragedy, especially for her loved ones.

 

I agree with another blogger, let the professionals and authorities do their jobs. Concentrate on improving the quality of our own lives and those whom we cherish and love dearly. Continue to show kindness, goodness and patience to those who are in need around us.

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caednjshore

caednjshore

Posted
Posted
I think it is safe to assume that this issue has been discussed amongst cruise line execs, travel experts and police agencies to decide the best course of action. Regrettably what happened on the Pearl wasn't the first time such a thing has happened, nor is it likely to be the last. Clearly an industry wide protocol is in place. I expect that all of the pro & cons of telling passengers were considered.

 

I expect different protocols exist for different scenarios, including when and when not to turn a ship around, when to tell passengers and how much detail they are to be told.

 

Personally I do not think that passengers have a right to know anything about a ship board incident UNLESS their safety is at risk, it involves a change in itinerary etc. I don't think I have a particular right to know that the poor soul in the cabin next to me died in his sleep, or choked on an olive at the bar, fell down a flight of stairs, or fell overboard etc. It is different if it is immediately obvious it was homicide and the culprit is still at large on the ship. That is a risk to other passengers.

 

It would seem that an immediate and intial assessment of the known facts would be made by on board security to assess any video evidence, witnesses etc. It may well be that the video was watched, and it was obvious that the only person in the cabin at the time was the woman who fell. Other cameras on board could easily confirm when the husband and any other travelling companions went into the cabin and left the cabin. Furthermore, cameras would be able to be viewed to verify where the husband and travelling companions were at various times in the evening. I would expect that should there be any issue that more than one person was in the cabin at the time she went overboard that other person would be kept under observation and away from other passengers until police could speak with them.

 

I think its human nature to want to know, we are all naturally curious but that curiosity doesn't mean a right to know the details involving other passengers.

 

Well said!

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AdMaven

AdMaven

Posted
Posted

MSNBC just reported Raymond Seitz had a domestic violence charge in 2008 (you can search using his name here) and it was discharged.

 

Also, according to this article, the timeline isn't as originally reported.

 

But a statement released today by the her family and her husband's family offers new details of her disappearance and revealed a new witness: Ellis-Seitz's mother accompanied the couple on the cruise.

 

She and her son-in-law discovered her daughter missing around 2 a.m. Friday. Jennifer Ellis-Seitz often walked the ship when she couldn't sleep, according to the family, so her husband and mother decided to search the ship for her.

When they couldn't find her, they reported her disappearance to ship security at about 3:30 a.m.

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amagar

amagar

Posted
Posted

It is negligent not to tell fellow cruisers!

 

Among the first things that needs to happen is to find out who, if anyone, saw/heard anything about this couple during the hours in question. That not only helps on-board investigators determine what happened, it offers a much better chance of obtaining clean statements -- those which haven't been tainted by what rumors people have heard on board -- that may be needed later on by the FBI.

 

Additionally, the husband should have been moved out of the cabin and it should have been sealed until crime scene investigators could gather evidence.

 

This isn't a Norwegian problem. This is a cruise industry problem. The travel industry shields crime statistics from passengers, leaving passengers with an unrealistic view of their safety. (I would argue that college campus police often do the same thing!). Of course, sadly, cruisers often have the most to fear from those they love (domestic violence or worse). But there are largers issues here.

 

Yes, we all cruise to relax and leave our ordinary lives behind. But criminals cruise -- or work on cruise lines -- too. And an umbrella drink and a week in flip-flops doesn't change the fact that there are pick-pockets, con men/women, rapists and other unsavory characters traveling with us, looking at us as prey.

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momofmeg

momofmeg

Posted
Posted
It is negligent not to tell fellow cruisers!

 

Among the first things that needs to happen is to find out who, if anyone, saw/heard anything about this couple during the hours in question. That not only helps on-board investigators determine what happened, it offers a much better chance of obtaining clean statements -- those which haven't been tainted by what rumors people have heard on board -- that may be needed later on by the FBI.

 

Additionally, the husband should have been moved out of the cabin and it should have been sealed until crime scene investigators could gather evidence.

 

This isn't a Norwegian problem. This is a cruise industry problem. The travel industry shields crime statistics from passengers, leaving passengers with an unrealistic view of their safety. (I would argue that college campus police often do the same thing!). Of course, sadly, cruisers often have the most to fear from those they love (domestic violence or worse). But there are largers issues here.

 

Yes, we all cruise to relax and leave our ordinary lives behind. But criminals cruise -- or work on cruise lines -- too. And an umbrella drink and a week in flip-flops doesn't change the fact that there are pick-pockets, con men/women, rapists and other unsavory characters traveling with us, looking at us as prey.

 

If you scan back 3 or 4 pages you will find a post made yesterday of a person on that cruise-the room WAS sealed.

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Snoopyto

Snoopyto

Posted
Posted

I think NCL put out a statement that said they did not notify the passengers because there was no public danger. Not like a murder was loose on the ship.

 

If the case is they should had been be notified, then where do you draw the line. Since the ship is out in International waters, HIPPA does not apply. Should they be notified when a passenger dies? OR maybe like our local hospital plays twinkle twinkle when a baby is born, maybe cruise ships should play a tune when people die on board. Maybe a total list should be posted on the infirmary door of those passengers who were treated too.

 

I think as a society we have gotten information hungry. We don't need to know everything. We often forget that a ship is not a democracy. The Master of the Vessel is in charge. He can choose to skip all ports and you know what? Nothing you can do about it.

 

As far as the guy having quarters, I don't blame him. Should he had been confined to the brig/alternate room, till they made port 4 days later. If my wife was missing and there was not a thing I could do, yeah, I would do everything my power to stay busy. I am a firm believer that a 'Happy Sailor is a Busy Sailor'. So being busy would be a good thing. Not like you can shut off the human brain. Look how people get when they are sequestered with Noro.

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