Art Auctions: To those who bought Art

[ssbeagle]

Art should never be bought for investment purposes unless you are a professional at it. Art should be bought because you like it and want to display it in your home or office - wherever you plan to hang it. I have priced pictures by Wyland at his galleries and on board ship and find Princess prices are cheaper. However, what he sells in his galleries and what he sells on Princess are usually two different things. I have never seen one of the Princess pictures in a gallery. In some ways they are similar but not alike. When I try to get a value on line I can't find the exact picture. But I don't buy for investment. I buy because I like it.

[jewopaho]

Appraised value means very little. Was it appraised at replacement value? Was it appraised at fair market value? What you paid, what it's "worth" is and what you can SELL it for are 3 different things! A diamond 1ct "nice" ring may be bought for about 5k, could be appraised at replacement value of 7k -8k, but try to sell it......be lucky to get 2-3k.

I've been shouting this from the rooftops for years, both here and on jewelry threads (was in that business for quite a while). It doesn't seem to penetrate through to those people who desperately want to believe that they all but stole a valuable piece of art, or bought a $5000 diamond ring for $2000. I'm certain that there's a rare exception here and there ... but even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then. The key word here, as you aptly point out, is "sell." One's return on investment (much like a home) is the only true measure of value ... and that is determined by how much someone is willing to pay for a given item. Once again (for the umpteenth time) if you like it, and are comfortable with the price, buy it and enjoy it ... but don't try to sell it!

[knotIn1]

I've been shouting this from the rooftops for years, both here and on jewelry threads (was in that business for quite a while). It doesn't seem to penetrate through to those people who desperately want to believe that they all but stole a valuable piece of art, or bought a $5000 diamond ring for $2000. I'm certain that there's a rare exception here and there ... but even a blind squirrel finds an acorn every now and then. The key word here, as you aptly point out, is "sell." One's return on investment (much like a home) is the only true measure of value ... and that is determined by how much someone is willing to pay for a given item. Once again (for the umpteenth time) if you like it, and are comfortable with the price, buy it and enjoy it ... but don't try to sell it!

 

I wish people would see this. My wife and I have a business where we have daily dealings with antique dealers and occasionally art dealers. I hate to paint these dealers with a broad brush, but many (who I have had dealings with) are very unscrupulous in regards to their work. One poster stated that an "art dealer" appraised their art purchase at a much higher price then paid. I know how dealers work. They are in the business to sell themselves so they can sell you their wares. They will butter you up, comment how you have a great eye, and your taste in the finer things is superb.......all in the hopes to get your business in the future. A dealer realizes that if they criticize your "eye" for art/antiques, you would probably feel insulted and this would put up a wall between you and the dealer.....resulting in no future sales for the predator.

 

Those who truly buy art for investment would not be buying from a cruise ship. They are buying from Christies and the like. If the ship art was such a deal, you would see agents from Christies sailing the ship. Also, buying from an artist that is alive, kicking and painting actually hurts your investment. The more they push out, the less it is worth. Supply and demand.

[shepp]

^ knot, that is the funniest sig line ever!

[islands58]

Out of curiousity, has anyone missed their chance to buy an art piece you like on the cruise, and gotten in contact with Global Fine Arts to see if an arrangement can be made to purchase the piece for the same price as the opening bid on the ship?

[mph045]

We have purchased a number of art pieces the last 10 years because we like it-not for the value or investment. We have done our homework-met with a number of the artists over the years and feel we received a good value on the pieces compared to what they charge on land-plus add in the cost of a new frame and there mark ups and than compare what Princess offers. We probably will never sell anything but have been offered more for our originals with Goddard-Daniel Wall-Eydel-etc.

 

there will always be those who do not care for Princess Art-much the same as anything else[those who pay for tours-spas-casinos-bingo-alcohol-etc]=its whatever makes you happy and brings memories to you;)

[TM]

Global Arts will NOT sell you anything. The only way you can purchase is on a ship. I had buyer's regret about not buying a Goddard when on a cruise. I talked to both the Art Director who was on our cruise that I had becomes friends with and Global Fine Arts. The answer was a very polite no. I then called my TA to see if he had any clients going on a future cruise. I was able to contact one of those clients who made the purchase for me. I love the art piece but feel very lucky that I was able to acquire it.

Edited March 15, 2011 by TM

[Liz54]

I don't think buying art as an investment is over the top. I bought the Behrens, Nechita, and a Godard and they are all worth much more than what I paid. My comment about the stock market was more of a joke...we still put money in the stock market especially now that everything is "on sale". When I posted this thread it was just to hear about what other people bought and their experience...not really about investments although this thread has seemed to turn that way. They are considered an asset as I have them insured and they are in our profolio as an asset; although I have absolutely no plans to ever sell any of them. But, anyway, I thank you all for your interesting posts and appreciate the feedback. If any of you out there are Godard fans, I would love to hear about the pieces you bought..I really love his work and I can't wait to buy a couple more.

 

 

This thread comes up every once in awhile. Those who buy art aboard say they don't care about the investment value. But the OP calls them an investment. The OP protects them with expensive insurance.

 

Those of us - and I am another - with advanced degrees in Fine Art keep trying to gently point out that its fine if you buy what you like with no thought of investment, but that as an investment there are many serious issues around these pieces.

 

Ask any art dealer who handles origonal art including Godard etc. what you would realize if you sold - through the gallery or at auction. Your appraisal is for "replacement cost". If you had a fire or flood, this is what insurance might give you to re-buy the equivilent on your next cruise.

 

If a buyer is taking money from an "investment account" they may be loving the art but I think they are also telling themselves that its OK to use investment assets to pay for this art. That is when the alarm bells go off for me,

[jewopaho]

This thread comes up every once in awhile. Those who buy art aboard say they don't care about the investment value. But the OP calls them an investment. The OP protects them with expensive insurance.

 

Those of us - and I am another - with advanced degrees in Fine Art keep trying to gently point out that its fine if you buy what you like with no thought of investment, but that as an investment there are many serious issues around these pieces.

 

Ask any art dealer who handles origonal art including Godard etc. what you would realize if you sold - through the gallery or at auction. Your appraisal is for "replacement cost". If you had a fire or flood, this is what insurance might give you to re-buy the equivilent on your next cruise.

 

If a buyer is taking money from an "investment account" they may be loving the art but I think they are also telling themselves that its OK to use investment assets to pay for this art. That is when the alarm bells go off for me,

You state everything succinctly ... it's what I've been posting for years (applies to high-end jewelry, as well). The true value of any piece is what a buyer is willing to pay for it. Appraisals, as you aptly point out, come into play only if the item is lost, stolen or destroyed. It has nothing to do with its actual value. Further, these "mass-production" artists (Goddard, Max, Kinkaid, etc.) are alive and producing ... and with each new run, the market becomes further saturated. If you like it, and are comfortable with the price, buy it to enjoy ... but do not for a moment believe that any of it will put your grandchildren through college. It might look pretty hanging in the dorm, but that's about it.

Edited March 15, 2011 by jewopaho

[islands58]

Global Arts will NOT sell you anything. The only way you can purchase is on a ship. I had buyer's regret about not buying a Goddard when on a cruise. I talked to both the Art Director who was on our cruise that I had becomes friends with and Global Fine Arts. The answer was a very polite no. I then called my TA to see if he had any clients going on a future cruise. I was able to contact one of those clients who made the purchase for me. I love the art piece but feel very lucky that I was able to acquire it.

 

Thanks very much for the reply TM. I saw piece on princess 2 years ago that I liked, saw it again last month on Holland America (they also use Global Fine Arts) and did not purchase b/c the frame that went along with the piece was hideous. Auctioneer was not the most helpful i've come across (in making other framing arrangements for me) so I became frustrated and did not purchase. Horrible buyer's regret. Might see if my TA can hook me up with a future Princess cruiser too!

[MikeKool]

Before Park West we were on the Majesty when we spotted a Matiros and fell in love and it's hanging over our stairs.(more than 20 years later).Now, if I see any of h is work they are way, way out of sight.. We have many Tarkey..at this point..lol We are addicted to art sales.. and going on Princess and willbe interested to see what they have to offer. We buy what we love. When searching for Matiros I "googled"him and found him in many galleries in CA.. He is now gone back to Europe and is no longer painting for the galleries..So many.. Chen, LeKliff, several of the Russian and Israeli artists A few cruises ago for whatever reason I ended up with so many "take offs' it was hysterical.. Can hardly wait until we attend our next.. within the week..

 

You sound like me! I have 5 Martiros. Many Tarkay, Medvedev, Krasnyansky, LeKinff, Max, Hatchett, Ledan etc,etc. I don't regret any purchase I've made and have personally met several of these artists. Everyone has their own opinion on the art auctions. I attend them all and have had nothing but good experiences. I hope to buy a Godard on the Ruby next month. After I booked and paid for the Ruby I got invited to meet Max and Tarkay in Michigan. Very tempted to cancel/change dates of the cruise.....but we are sailing withnon-artsy people. LOL.

[love2bonboard]

You sound like me! I have 5 Martiros. Many Tarkay, Medvedev, Krasnyansky, LeKinff, Max, Hatchett, Ledan etc,etc. I don't regret any purchase I've made and have personally met several of these artists. Everyone has their own opinion on the art auctions. I attend them all and have had nothing but good experiences. I hope to buy a Godard on the Ruby next month. After I booked and paid for the Ruby I got invited to meet Max and Tarkay in Michigan. Very tempted to cancel/change dates of the cruise.....but we are sailing withnon-artsy people. LOL.

 

You will not regret buying a Godard! We have quite a large collection of his including a special request gold and silver drawing he made for us that I absolutely love. I'm not sure if he is doing special request anymore, but the piece is brilliant.

 

I cannot believe this thread is still alive :D...I guess that is proof that there are still a lot of us that love these auctions and Princess has the best.

[KansasCityTBone]

I know this is a dead thread, but for those interested I have been reading a blog from a "retired" art auctioneer. There isn't any information about the art auctions, but just cruise ship life in general. Here it is if you are interested: Cruise Ship Art Auction Blog

 

I will be on Diamond in the Fall - hope to at least drink lots of champagne, can't afford to spend 2-3K on a print right now!

[Former Cruise Rep]

For anyone who is interested, I am in the process of returning my piece under the buy back guarantee. This piece was $3300 and was bought in 2004.

Matthew

 

Hi Matt,

 

My wife and I are interested in having Princess buy back an original Behrens we paid $17k for in 2002. When I contacted Princess' Art Dept a few months ago, they told me the buy-back policy had been dropped a couple of years ago. Have you had success with your buy-back?

 

Thanks for shedding some light on this for us.

[Sapphire723]

Not to seem snotty or burst anyone's bubble - after all, if you like something, you're entitled to like it - but the reason Godard is "world renowned" is because he churns out vast quantities of product, much of which then gets sold on cruise ships or in the fine arts capitals of Las Vegas and Atlantic City, and because he excels at self-promotion. He is not famous because reputable museums are clamoring to add him to their collections, or because critics and art historians regard him as anything more than a kitschmeister, or because he has anything more to say with his art than the unknown painter of the poker-playing dogs did.

 

By all means, enjoy your pictures of drunken olives. But please don't confuse them with actual investment-quality "fine art" in the generally accepted definition of the word.

 

My, that did sound snotty, didn't it?

 

LOL. That's kinda how I feel when I see Godard's stuff, but then I feel guilty for coming off elitist, so I usually keep my trap shut.

[Cruise2End]

Just in case you ever see any of these wonderful prints from the art auctions, we cruised some years back with a couple that thought the free prints they were giving out were wonderful - I didn't see any particular interest in them myself. But the cruiser went on to state that she had purchased a special art pencil and actually wrote in numbers (eg to indicate they were from a limited collection) before she had them framed... the same person also identified most of her belongings as "high end"... Interesting.....

[MattOsprey]

Hi.

We are on Crown at the minute. When I am at home on 22nd send me a message to remind me and I will give you the details of the people who will sort it for you.

Matthew

[Expat...]

Always end up blowing my Art money somewhere else.....;)

[MDSue]

Hi Matt,

 

My wife and I are interested in having Princess buy back an original Behrens we paid $17k for in 2002. When I contacted Princess' Art Dept a few months ago, they told me the buy-back policy had been dropped a couple of years ago. Have you had success with your buy-back?

 

Thanks for shedding some light on this for us.

I attended an art auction on Princess last month and they did specifically mention their buy-back guarantees that they offered. However, when I listened to the explanation as to how it works I got the impression that they will take the artwork that you wish them to buy back and offer it for sale on future cruises. If it selld, then you will recieve the payment for it, minus their 15% premium they automatically charge on all sales.

While the art auction I attended sold many pieces of art that were reasonably priced lithos or gi-clees, I'm not aware of a single original or expensive piece that sold. Most of the art that sold was priced between $500- $1200 dollars.

 

While I originally thought I'd never by art online, I did find many pieces that I liked and ended up making a purchase. I believe Princess is able to offer good deals on the framed prints becuase of the sheer volume of art they move every week. A small art gallery cannot possibily draw in the amount of customers that a cruise line full of shop-happy customers onboard. I look in ozen of galleries on the ilsands we visited and hoped to buy an original painting from a local artist. When I didnt find anything I really wamted I recultantly decided to sit trough an art auction, I walked away believing that good deaks were avaikable. After mich comparision shopping

I feel I got a fair price for a print that I love and it will look beautiful hanging hanging in my room. The auctioneers on Princess seem to be a different breed from the PArk West varietys. There were no false promise of buyers making instant riches off their purchase.

 

I can't wait for mine to arrive. I stuck with a reasonably priced gi-clee. I'm satisfied with the price I paid. You won't find me buying ecpensive one-of-kind artowrk, but there is a nice selection onboard

[Times Prince]

We have had an experience of Princess Global Fine Arts standing behind their guarantee on a more expensive piece of art. Their Customer Service treated us fairly.

 

Just in case you ever see any of these wonderful prints from the art auctions, we cruised some years back with a couple that thought the free prints they were giving out were wonderful - I didn't see any particular interest in them myself. But the cruiser went on to state that she had purchased a special art pencil and actually wrote in numbers (eg to indicate they were from a limited collection) before she had them framed... the same person also identified most of her belongings as "high end"... Interesting.....

Not sure what you are trying to allude to here, other than there was another passenger who was trying to make something sound better than it was.

 

As for the Princess Global Fine Arts pictures we have either purchased or won onboard, every one was a signed numbered print with accompanying certificate of authenticity, so I really have to question the accuracy of the account and its relationship to Princess art. I really don't understand what you are trying to say with the "Buyer Beware" title.

 

If one is dealing with Princess' Art program then you are dealing with a reliable business, who in our experience operates with integrity.

Edited May 13, 2011 by Times Prince

[Former Cruise Rep]

Thanks Matthew. I'll remind you with a post on May 23, as I do not know your private e-mail address. Enjoy your cruise. I worked for Princess for 21 years in the States.

[Former Cruise Rep]

Hi.

We are on Crown at the minute. When I am at home on 22nd send me a message to remind me and I will give you the details of the people who will sort it for you.

Matthew

 

Hi Matthew,

 

I hope you enjoyed your cruise and are safely back home. You asked that I ping you upon your return, and that you would provide details on how the art buy-back program currently works. I'd appreciate it very much if you could help us.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Ken

[MattOsprey]

Hi,

The person who helped me is Wendy Connelly.

We were going to take our painting back on this cruise, but arrived too late to drop it off so we decided not to take it this time, but we will in the future.

She explained that as long as it was bought under the old guarantee and that it was in the same condition as recieved then it would be okay.

She did explain that it could take 6 weeks to be sorted as they would have to verify the painting. This seemed reasonable, and I was very happy with the communication from Wendy.

Wendy Connolly, Fine Arts Representative

PRINCESS CRUISES/Global Fine Arts

EMail To: wconnolly@princesscruises.com

Fax: (1-954- 920-7650)

(1-800-388-5306 ext 7110) US/Canada

(1-800-917-2664 ext 7110) UK

(1-800-986-684 ext 7110) Australia

 

Please let me know how you get on.

Matthew

[Former Cruise Rep]

Thanks so much Matthew. You've provided exactly the information I was looking for. I'll let you know how things turn out.

 

With gratitude,

 

Ken

[Fuzzyape]

You will not regret buying a Godard! We have quite a large collection of his including a special request gold and silver drawing he made for us that I absolutely love. I'm not sure if he is doing special request anymore, but the piece is brilliant.

Love, DW and I have 3 of his pieces. Would love to hear about yours. If you feel like it email me at jeff@fuzzyape.com We can trade tales. DW and I have bought a few pieces on Princess. With the one Godard we got from Princess, we know are reasonably priced, as the other 2 we bought at his gallery in Vegas, and they are about the same (at least retail was the same as ship, to me that is okay).