How about a little Perspective Here?

[agentgirl]

MSC ORCHESTRA…..OKAY, LET’S GET SOME PERSPECTIVE HERE!

What are we to learn from the comments on these boards about the MSC Orchestra? We have all had quite a lot to say- both good and bad- about the Orchestra. Admittedly- some people that have had opinions have based them on surveys, reviews, and other people’s opinions and not from personal experience. I, for one, have no experience- YET- sailing the Orchestra. I have toured the ship and dealt quite extensively with the booking staff, supervisors and even Mr. Sasso- always with great results and professionalism. So much so that I believe (maybe naively) that my personal cruise in April is going to be wonderful. Perfect? Probably not, because the fact is the crew is made up of people with feelings and personalities- not robots. We can all concede that the infamous “Two day cruise” was wrought with problems and issues, which MSC has acknowledged and attempted to compensate those passengers for their inconveniences. The transatlantic also seemed to have problems. Having said that, what can we deduce from what has been written?

• It is definitely not an American style ship. And you know- they do not advertise themselves as an American ship. They are an Italian ship and very proud of that fact- as they should be. For some- this is not a problem- for some it is a huge problem. It is up to each of us to decide for our families if we can handle and enjoy a decidedly different cruise experience.
  
• It is absolutely a beautiful vessel- something everyone has agreed upon. Clean- immaculate, actually- and stunning in design and ambiance.
  
• The food (which seems to be one of the biggest controversies) is either loved or hated- there doesn’t seem to be too many middle of the road opinions here! This is, if we are to be honest, something that can be said about most any cruise ship. I have heard people complain- and rave- about the food on Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Holland America- actually all of the cruise lines. One of my clients found lady bugs in her sons’ salad on a very well known and very popular American cruiseline and ship. Would I ever choose a cruise solely on the food? No….but that is me. Again- we each have to decide for our own families. “Free food” not available all day and all night? Grab some fruit from the breakfast buffet and take it back to your room for later when you get an attack of the hungries! Honestly- I can see a day coming when many- if not all- of the cruiselines will scale back the amount of time food is available on board- probably in the not-too-distant future. I believe one of the major cruiselines is considering that at this moment.
  
• Dining room service is too slow. Yes, I also experienced this on my tour of the Orchestra. We skipped dessert so we would not miss the show. Some have said that they were in the dining room for two hours. I have sailed many times- many cruiselines. Dinner usually takes up to two hours- sometimes a little longer no matter which ship I am sailing on. That is not so unusual. To me it is a time to relax, unwind after a day of sight-seeing and talk with friends about what they did that day and what they are doing tomorrow. I can see where this will be a problem if you are going to be late for your seating of the show.
  
• Room Stewards all seem to have received good reviews- everyone seems to agree that the cabins are kept spotlessly. Wash cloths seem to be an issue- or lack of them, rather. There were no wash cloths in our cabin on our overnight tour. I simply used a hand towel! Problem solved. My face got just as clean!
  
• Unfriendly crew. I encountered nothing but smiles from the crew while I was onboard. I will grant you the fact that I was on a TA event and as I am sure many will say “They were on their best behavior.” Possibly. I find meeting a frown with a smile works wonders. If I encounter any surly crew members on my cruise I will try my theory out and let you know how it worked! I truly don’t think I am going to have that problem, though.
  
• The fact that the shows are amazing seems to be the general concensus with most passengers. There seem to be only a few that did not enjoy the shows at all. We saw the variety show while we were onboard. The costumes are beautiful- very European! There was lip-synching (which I personally don’t like) for parts of the show and live vocals- which were wonderful- for other parts. It left me wanting more and I look forward to seeing what else they have to offer in the show lounge. They received a standing ovation- something that others have also said on 7 day cruises. Another point of agreement seems to be that the show lounge itself is beautiful- I can personally attest to that.
  
• It has been said that MSC needs to change to adapt to the American market it seeks to serve. I ask why? We have plenty of American ships. Why not have something different and unique? If you want American, then by all means sail American.
  

I know there are many more things that have been discussed at length- but these seem to be the major ones. Bottom line is this: I, for one, am happily looking forward to my future cruise experience with MSC. Until I am proven wrong in my support of the company I will continue to recommend the line and the ships. I concede that I may be proven wrong. I certainly hope not, and I honestly don’t think that I will be. Until that day comes I will continue to offer the product and I will explain the differences to my clients- just as I explain the difference between NCL’s freestyle cruising and traditional cruising. And I will let my clients make their informed decisions.

I am not attempting to put down anyone who has had and who has shared a less than perfect experience on MSC. You spent hard earned money and were sorley disappointed. I truly feel bad for you and understnad your frustration. We have had a LOT of information posted on these boards both good and bad. Everyone, as it has been said numerous times, is entitled to their opinions and entitled to sharing those opinions. I would suggest that we share those opinions and then let them lie for all to read and see. But there are some who seem to have a real bias against the ship and seek to run it into the ground. (no pun intended). To those I say thank you for your opinions that you have so readily shared. Thank you for your reviews. Thank you for your warnings. We are all adults….we have all heeded your advice. Now give us the freedom to choose.

Again- a little perspective is all I am seeking here. Not fighting- not arguing- just taking it all into perspective and allowing those who have chosen to give MSC a fair shot the right to do so without being bombarded by all the rehashing of the 2 and 17 day cruises! I applaud CruiseCritic for allowing us all an opportunity to vent, share experiences and help one another. It is a wonderful forum.

Have a wonderful weekend everyone......and HAPPY SAILING!!

[CherylsCaribbeanTravel]

First and foremost, this isn’t a personal attack. While I disagree vehemently with your perspective, my intent is to reply with respect. If I fail, please accept my apologies in advance. My reply is intended to offer an opposing view for those who have yet to choose MSC.

MSC ORCHESTRA…..OKAY, LET’S GET SOME PERSPECTIVE HERE!!!

Fair enough. Not only should we get some perpective, but let us keep things in perspective as well. By accepting a hefty commission check for the 47 cabins you have booked on April 4th......... YOU ARE AN EMPLOYEE OF MSC. In my opinion, following your perspective blindly would be similar to naively believing the owner of a Ford Dealer who offers his perspective about the great attributes of the Granada in spite of it being voted one of the worst cars of all time. When one benefits fiscially from a product, their opinions should be very carefully weighed. This isn't to say that such opinions are automatically invalid, but they certainly should be examined far more closely than the opinions of someone who isn't financially tied to a product.

With that in mind, I could go bullet by bullet to refute each of the 'perspectives' you offered but I won't (unless of course, anyone is curious..... in which case I'd be more than happy to oblige ;-)). Instead I will concentrate on a few of the points you make which are requests of other members.

I will say this…..All ships are beautiful, all cruises are wonderful, and each and every vacation I have ever taken has ended up positive (although maybe not perfect). That isn’t the question. “Why should we sail MSC?” is the question most seek to answer on this forum.

Thank you for your warnings. We are all adults….we have all heeded your advice. Now give us the freedom to choose..!!

Ummm......... did someone take away your choice while I wasn't looking? If so, I apologize. I’d like to offer you your choice back. In fact, many agents will offer your choice back with absolutely no penalty for canceling J.

But in all seriousness; no one has jeopardized your freedom of choice. You are choosing to sail with MSC in spite of the poor reviews. Fine. Dandy. I get it. We all get it. But since the reviews are bothersome to you, might I suggest that you simply quit reading the negative reviews? I mean, you had the freedom to choose; you made a choice....... please respect those of us who are still gathering information and who welcome all opinions. We want to make an informed choice also. Seems fair.

Again- a little perspective is all I am seeking here. Not fighting- not arguing- just taking it all into perspective and allowing those who have chosen to give MSC a fair shot the right to do so without being bombarded by all the rehashing of the 2 and 17 day cruises! .!!

Please don't think I’m fighting or arguing just because I don't agree with you or because I ask for clarification.. But I honestly don’t understand where you are coming from. First you’re claiming that the forum is not offering you the freedom to choose, and now you’re claiming your rights are being violated because you made a choice and continue to be "bombarded" with bad reviews. I’ll offer what I think………I think you are emotionally (and financially) attached to a product that receives a disproportionate amount of poor reviews and you are struggling with the information. That I can understand. I can empathize. I can honestly say that I might feel the same. But I would never ask those who had a bad experience to stop ‘rehashing’. That request, I do not understand.

I don't think anyone has a right to ask those who have experienced a poor cruise be silenced so they aren't 'bombarding' others with their negative opinions. Asking this would be equal to asking everyone who has enjoyed MSC to stop offering their opinions so that those who are still deciding aren't bombarded by the rehashing of a good cruise. I see no difference other than that later makes those who already purchased MSC feel better emotionally. Neither benefit the integrity of this forum.

And don't even get me started about the 2 day/17 day/Jam Cruise/Jan 10th/ and Jan 17th cruise because I think reviews for each of theses are FAR more similar than they are different. In other words, the last cruise (Jan 17th) was no better than the 17 day cruise in terms of reviews. Of those who posted opinions, a few liked MSC......... more didn't. The number of those who would not sail with MSC again, or recommend it to friends, far out numbers the amount of people who said they had a good cruise regardless of the sailing date. I'll whip up a nice little spread sheet of the data later, but you will be surprised to know that Jan 17th cruise brought an equal number of people reporting negatively of the Orchestra as did the translantic sailing. Ouchy huh?

I think it's important to remember that there are three types of readers on the boards. Those who have already sailed on MSC. Those who have booked MSC and have yet to sail. Those who are thinking about booking MSC.

To those who have already sailed on MSC, I say thank you for offering your opinions and encourage you to keep talking (or typing as the case may be). The good, the bad, the ugly. Regardless of your stance of MSC, I appreciate you continuing to share your experiences with us. I am capable of assigning value as I see fit and welcome all opinions with open arms.

To those who have booked MSC and have yet to sail: I trust that you are sailing because you have determined MSC to be a good value in spite of the poor reviews. I get it and wish you a wonderful cruise. But please don't try to edit discussion on the board so that you 'feel better' about your decision (as appears to be the case with this post). That's not fair to those still considering MSC. Or is it?

To those who have yet to choose: I suggest we keep reading. We MIGHT end up deciding that the low price is simply too good to pass up. With the economy faltering, MSC could very well be an excellent choice for many. But by reading all opinions, those who still choose MSC in spite of the poor reviews will do so informed.

In fact, if we are keeping things in perspective let's keep them real too............the pink elephant in the room is pricing. Never once in the post did you mention pricing. I mean, come on…..if the prices were EQUAL, would anyone actually choose the Orchestra over the Ruby Princess or the Eurodam which sails on identical days from the same port? Would you actually put your clients on MSC over Celebrity, Disney, RCCL (insert 20 other lines here) if the prices were identical? Fair question, no?

I hope we can all agree that a primary reason for choosing the Orchestra over her competition is because she is significantly less expensive. That’s fair. I understand. I'm not passing judgment on those who will stay with MCS. I have no right to make such generalizations. In fact, especially for a family during this economical downturn, I completely understand why MSC would be appealing in spite of poor reviews. I’m confident each and every one of you can choose to have a wonderful vacation regardless of the msc flaws. Holidays are rarely about the destination, and much more about the attitude. That has never been my contention. Once the decision to sail MSC has been made, there isn't much left to do other than wish you a wonderful cruise!

However; many of us have yet to make a final choice. Please allow us the opportunity to color our decision with the crayon we find appropriate….. Whether that crayon be a traditional cost analysis verses the amenities offered, or a review of the reviews. What matters is that all opinions (and perspectives) are welcomed.

I offer no malice, just a different perspectiveJ..

Cheryl

[Lard Greystoke]

Based upon limited, but at least real, personal experience I would compare MSC to Carnival, pricewise at least - and given that, I find the MSC ambience a bit preferable. They do pretty well - generally - without charging you a ton of money. Also, the on-board extras are not exorbitant.

 

Not to be offensive, but we've had people on the MSC board - and check other boards for comparison - who act like they need to be on medicine. Either they have a specific complaint which then morphs into "no one should take this line, ever, and everyone who works for it should be shot", or else others launch personal attacks on people who have had problems as if MSC is somehow not to be criticized at all. Lack of perspective indeed.

 

In my opinion the business of "American" vs "un-American" is just plain stupid. Has anyone seen the wait and service staffs on any of the ships? Just about zero Americans, right? So what kind of "American" experience is it if everyone you come in contact with is Indonesian or Filipino? I wonder if some of the rabidity against this line isn't simply xenophobia because it's owned by some European millionaire instead of an American one ("them danged furriners shouldn't be cruisin' in "our" waters" - not that the Caribbean isn't as "foreign" as Italy anyway).

 

I keep hearing about Mister Rick Sasso, like he's supposed to personally wipe the nose of everyone who has a problem. Does anyone even know who runs the other companies? No. Then why should the manager of this one be expected to be everyone's best friend and shoulder to cry on? Sounds like people have one set of standards for the "American" companies, and a different (and ridiculous) standard for this one.

[lovetexas]

OKAY-- I have to jump in here....I have been on an island during a hurricane...my dh and I stayed in the room, on the 12th floor with no electricity for 2 days!!!!

 

Needless, to say we came out loving each other more and realizing that NOTHING is perfect.......

 

Another time, we were on a cruise through a tropical depression.....rough seas and everyone sick..... we sat on our balcony and had cocktails and played go fish with our dd!!!

 

You know... we are so lucky in America to have what we have, to be what we are, to live the lives that we live!!!

 

 

All this DRIBBLE about who served what hot... who had what kind of "stare"... who liked the food and did not..

 

It's like GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!

 

I want to ge with my family, lay on a beach, drink cocktails, and RELAX!!!!!

 

I DO NOT CARE if the dinner takes 2 hour.... I DO NO CARE if the pizza is not great... I DO NOT CARE if it cost to have a great ice cream!!!!!

 

Life is too short to worry about such things.... the next day is there and we will see what it brings!!!

 

I save all year for 1!! BIG trip... this is it for me...

 

NOBODY!!!! and nothing is going to spoil that for me!

 

I am just happy to be alive... to have my family with me on vacation.. and to be at a beach...

 

I WILL NOT LET anyone change my feelings on that!!!!

[agentgirl]

Well said.:)

[CherylsCaribbeanTravel]

Based upon limited, but at least real, personal experience I would compare MSC to Carnival, pricewise at least - and given that, I find the MSC ambience a bit preferable. They do pretty well - generally - without charging you a ton of money. Also, the on-board extras are not exorbitant..

 

Thank you. This type of direct comparison is very valuable to those of us who have yet to make a final decision. I can certainly appreciate accepting less when I pay less to board. Generally speaking, I don't need exorbitant and can keep expectations in perspective to cost.

 

Based Not to be offensive, but we've had people on the MSC board - and check other boards for comparison - who act like they need to be on medicine. Either they have a specific complaint which then morphs into "no one should take this line, ever, and everyone who works for it should be shot", or else others launch personal attacks on people who have had problems as if MSC is somehow not to be criticized at all. Lack of perspective indeed..

 

I'm reasonably new here. I came onboard just before the New Year. I have not seen anyone type that 'no one should sail this line" or "everyone should be shot" who works there. Can you link me to some of these posts please? Perhaps that can help us to understand why some appear 'overly defensive' of the Orchestra.

 

I would like to point out that in my short time here, I have witnessed the exactg opposite regarding personal attacks. I have read numerous attacks where fans of MSC have suggested that those who did not like their experience were 'too picky'....... 'couldn't be pleased'......... 'rude americans'......the list goes on and on. I would be more than happy to link you to the posts I am referring to. For a time there it seemed like anyone who posted something negative about the orchestra was accused of being too difficult to please. As if, having a bad experience was the fault of the traveler, not the company.

 

Based In my opinion the business of "American" vs "un-American" is just plain stupid. Has anyone seen the wait and service staffs on any of the ships? Just about zero Americans, right? So what kind of "American" experience is it if everyone you come in contact with is Indonesian or Filipino? I wonder if some of the rabidity against this line isn't simply xenophobia because it's owned by some European millionaire instead of an American one ("them danged furriners shouldn't be cruisin' in "our" waters" - not that the Caribbean isn't as "foreign" as Italy anyway)...

 

I completely agree. In fact, I did a little speel about how it is those from the UK who actually review MSC harsher than Americans. I can't for the life of me figure out what the whole ..... "MSC isn't American, but doesn't claim to be" is all about. Maybe you can enlighten me? I really am trying to understand. The best I've concluded is the MSC does not offer a lot of choice onboard (especially as it pertains to food times), but I"m not sure.

 

I keep hearing about Mister Rick Sasso, like he's supposed to personally wipe the nose of everyone who has a problem. Does anyone even know who runs the other companies? No. Then why should the manager of this one be expected to be everyone's best friend and shoulder to cry on? Sounds like people have one set of standards for the "American" companies, and a different (and ridiculous) standard for this one.

 

I would like to think my standards aren't "American" verses "MSC"..........but rather an concrete comparison of amenities offered. Here are the things which are a real turn off to me regarding MSC and the orchestra. PErhaps you can comment on them since you have sailed on her? If you find my standards ridiculous, I"m all ears also :)

 

1) I don't like that MSC limits food times. Best I can see from reviews, Breakfast is 30 minutes shorter than other lines. Lunch is hours shorter. And dinner is, perhaps the biggest problem. With the exception of tea sandwiches and room service, it doesn't appear there is any food available after lunch. No buffet in the evening unless you want to PAY for pizza (omitting midnight buffet). How can this be right?

 

2) There are lots of little things that would be so easy for MSC to change, and when taken individually add up to very little, but collectively they make for less amenities overall. Let me list them:

 

- No movies on the big screen. That I could deal with, but posters say that instead of movies, advertisement is being shown. That is just down right classless. However, for the right price, I can ignore the advertisement.

 

- No adult pool. When you think about all the kids onboard, lack of a pool dedicated to adults only is something to consider. HOwever, for the right price, I can ignore the lack of adult space.

 

- No omlette station for breakfast. Stupid probably, but when I travel breakfast is typically the meal I enjoy the most. An omlette station would be so simple to add. While they are at it, I'd suggest a waffle station also :). HOwever, for the right price, I can eat what is on the buffet.

 

- Smaller cabins. A superior balcony is the same size as a standard balcony on most other lines. The suites are much smaller, as are the interior and oceanview cabins. Also, because the cabins are smaller on the Orchestra, there are more people per square foot. For example, the M class on Celebrity is slightly LARGER and holds less people. The orchestra seem really crams the people on for the size of the ship. Did you feel the ship crowded? However, for the right price, who cares about size.

 

-Limited room service. While all room service menus are limited, it appears that the orchestra has far fewer selections and some are posting that you have to pay? Can anyone post the exact menus for free room service? HOwever, for the right price, I can forgo room service.

 

-Poor food quality. I can supply photos from the jam cruise of food. But, they served a 'onion crisp' salad that was really a piece of lettuce with a cold onion ring and 3 cold fries on it. I wouldn't have believed it myself, if it wasn't for the photo. Can you comment? Hoever, for the right price, I can always find something to eat.

 

- Less than friendly workers. Rude is unacceptable from either parties. Was there an element of anti-American from the workers? Unfortunately, once I've made a decision to board, I can't accept negative energy at any cost.

 

I was worried about embarkation, but it seems that is fixed. I was also worried about sanitizer, but have since changed my mind.

 

Right now....... prices are CHEAP. I'm lucky enough to travel 3-4 times a year. One of those trips is with family, one or two with friends, and one is always alone. MSC has the absoluet best single suppliments and prices out extremely cheap when compared to other lines (much like they do for a family). Prices are tempting, but I am far too experienced of a traveler to beleive that the cheapest is always the best value. HOwever, for the right price I can overlook a lot :).

 

Your thoughts?

 

Cheryl :)

[CherylsCaribbeanTravel]

Dear LoveTexas,

 

Like you, I am happy to be alive. And, like you, I will have a great vacation no matter what I choose. Please don't think I"m trying to change your opinion (in fact, I'd argue that isn't possible). :)

 

However, unlike you I am still gathering information in order to make the best choice possible. I believe that all cruises will take me to a great beach on a beautiful ship and provide an excellent place to relax and smell the sea air. That isn't the point. In order to make a responsible choice, I need to concentrate on the subtle differences between my choices. In other words, while I make my choice, I care whether the pizza is good. I care how the service is, I do care what is included in my admission. It would be irresponsible for me to think otherwise.

 

I want information. As much as possible. I welcome the good, bad, and ugly in all reviews. Certainly you made the choice to cruise with MSC with the best information possible at the time of booking. Why should that be any different for me?

 

Please understand that I am not trying to "change your opinon". Right now, I'm simply trying to form my own opinion...... and believe me, that's a full time job :).

 

Cheryl

[babygirl722]

Dear LoveTexas,

 

Like you, I am happy to be alive. And, like you, I will have a great vacation no matter what I choose. Please don't think I"m trying to change your opinion (in fact, I'd argue that isn't possible). :)

 

However, unlike you I am still gathering information in order to make the best choice possible. I believe that all cruises will take me to a great beach on a beautiful ship and provide an excellent place to relax and smell the sea air. That isn't the point. In order to make a responsible choice, I need to concentrate on the subtle differences between my choices. In other words, while I make my choice, I care whether the pizza is good. I care how the service is, I do care what is included in my admission. It would be irresponsible for me to think otherwise.

 

I want information. As much as possible. I welcome the good, bad, and ugly in all reviews. Certainly you made the choice to cruise with MSC with the best information possible at the time of booking. Why should that be any different for me?

 

Please understand that I am not trying to "change your opinon". Right now, I'm simply trying to form my own opinion...... and believe me, that's a full time job :).

 

Cheryl

 

I couldn't agree with you more. There are many cruises that can take me to the same beach. It's how we get to that beach and back that makes the difference.

 

I, along with several friends, are doing a B2B beginning Feb 7th. My husband is from Italy and also spent 7 years working on board for RCCL. We're traveling with our 2 children and we've sailed many times as a family. I think our perspective will be interesting and I intend on writing an lengthy review when I return and really don't care if I offend the diehard MSC fans, as this is a place to report the good, bad and ugly.

 

I'm looking forward to my vacation, as I welcome time away from work and the pressures of every day life, but if I could flip a switch and sail on HAL's Noordam again instead of the Orchestra, I would in a second. But, since that's not an option, I will go hoping for the best and expecting the worst, lowering my expectations, unfortunately.

 

I'll let you all know when I get back how it was.

[owl61]

(1) ... because the fact is the crew is made up of people with feelings and personalities- not robots. ...

(2)It is definitely not an American style ship. And you know- they do not advertise themselves as an American ship. They are an Italian ship and very proud of that fact- as they should be. For some- this is not a problem- for some it is a huge problem. It is up to each of us to decide for our families if we can handle and enjoy a decidedly different cruise experience.

(3)The food (which seems to be one of the biggest controversies) is either loved or hated- there doesn’t seem to be too many middle of the road opinions here! This is, if we are to be honest, something that can be said about most any cruise ship.

(4) “Free food” not available all day and all night? Grab some fruit from the breakfast buffet and take it back to your room for later when you get an attack of the hungries!

(5) Dining room service is too slow. Yes, I also experienced this on my tour of the Orchestra. We skipped dessert so we would not miss the show.

(6) Unfriendly crew. I encountered nothing but smiles from the crew while I was onboard. I will grant you the fact that I was on a TA event and as I am sure many will say “They were on their best behavior.” Possibly.

(7) The costumes are beautiful- very European! ...It has been said that MSC needs to change to adapt to the American market it seeks to serve. I ask why? We have plenty of American ships. Why not have something different and unique? If you want American, then by all means sail American.

(8) Bottom line is this: I, for one, am happily looking forward to my future cruise experience with MSC. Until I am proven wrong in my support of the company I will continue to recommend the line and the ships. I concede that I may be proven wrong. I certainly hope not, and I honestly don’t think that I will be. Until that day comes I will continue to offer the product and I will explain the differences to my clients- just as I explain the difference between NCL’s freestyle cruising and traditional cruising. And I will let my clients make their informed decisions.

 

(9) Everyone, as it has been said numerous times, is entitled to their opinions and entitled to sharing those opinions. I would suggest that we share those opinions and then let them lie for all to read and see. But there are some who seem to have a real bias against the ship and seek to run it into the ground. (no pun intended). To those I say thank you for your opinions that you have so readily shared. Thank you for your reviews. Thank you for your warnings. We are all adults….we have all heeded your advice. Now give us the freedom to choose.

 

(10) Again- a little perspective is all I am seeking here. Not fighting- not arguing- just taking it all into perspective and allowing those who have chosen to give MSC a fair shot the right to do so without being bombarded by all the rehashing of the 2 and 17 day cruises! I applaud CruiseCritic for allowing us all an opportunity to vent, share experiences and help one another. It is a wonderful forum.

 

OKAY--

All this DRIBBLE about who served what hot... who had what kind of "stare"... who liked the food and did not..

It's like GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!

I DO NOT CARE if the dinner takes 2 hour.... I DO NO CARE if the pizza is not great... I DO NOT CARE if it cost to have a great ice cream!!!!!

I save all year for 1!! BIG trip... this is it for me...

NOBODY!!!! and nothing is going to spoil that for me!

 

Well said.:)

 

Agentgirl, since you admittedly never sailed on MSC and cannot personally share the MSC cruise experience I find your plea for CCers to get some perspective disingenuous. IMHO, your post is an argument intended to persuade those knocking MSC to cool it. Since you are the agent for a large group sailing on the Orchestra in April it is understandable that you would like to reassure your paying customers that they have not spent their money foolishly. However, you go to some extremes to do so. For example:

(1) Do you really meant imply that MSC passengers treat crew differently than passengers on other lines do and that this accounts for the disproportionate number of reports of bad service? I hope not.

(2) I agree wih Lard Greystoke and CherylsCarribeanTravel(CCT) that this attempt to distinguish between American and non-American cruising is a red herring. I have yet to read a cogent explanation how the two differ. I think this attempt to distinguish between the two is just a way some seek to excuse bad food and service.

(3) Not true. Food on some lines is consistently good. Food on other mass market lines is not consistently rated high, but the ratings for MSC food appear to be much lower than the others. Why gloss over this?

(4) I am reminded of the suggestion by another travel related pro on the 2 day Orchestra VIP cruise that one could dine in port as a way of coping with the poor ship fare. Sure, I could bring fruit back to my cabin. I could also make a sandwich while in the buffet line, but who wants to be bothered?

(5) If the service you encountered on a VIP tour was poor, what can you expect on a normal cruise? Why should patrons have to skip dessert to make the show? Your attempts to rationalize away the problem only serve to undermine your credibility.

(6) Possibly the crew was aware that Mr Sasso was on board hosting a special VIP - TA event? Of course, the crew knew that. That you found service friendly is no surprise, but you also admit it was inefficient.

(7) The costumes were very European? I am not sure I understand this. Were the performers wearing folk dress or what? Or is this just part of the effort to define a "European" experience? By the way, was the tableware manufactured in Europe? How intriguing.

(8) Given your own brief VIP onboard experience which by any objective measure seems less than good together with the disproportionately high percentage of negative comments why do you continue to recommend this very controversial line, even with caveats? I don't know about others, but I for one find this conduct to be curious at best and unwise at worst. Is there some financial incentive that influences your conduct? Before you go ballistic because I pose this question, you really need to get some perspective on how others could perceive your conduct in light of all the circumstances.

(9) I strongly disagree that we should not challenge the opinions published here, of course, always in a civil manner. While everyone is entitled to express an opinion, not all opinions are reliable. When people ask why a person holds an opinion it helps all CC readers to determine whether the opinion is reliable or not. It seems to me that in the MSC threads more than any other line those who do challenge the opinions of others, even in a civil tone, are often disparaged by certain MSC aficionados who apparently have an agenda - which in many cases consists of not wanting to read negative comments about a ship on which they are non-refundably booked. I believe lovetexas's diatribe falls into this category. Of course, she is entitled to her opinions, but is someone who thinks "Chef boy are de" is good entitled to a lot of credibility? (see ttp://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=17936695&highlight=#post17936695. That you give her a "well said" further undermines your credibility in my view.

(10) Notwithstanding your assertion to the contrary, your post is argumentative even though you to define it simply as a plea for perspective. Your charterization of the negative (and positive) posts about the prior MSC cruises as "bombardment" or "rehashing" is the very "opportunity to vent, share experiences and help one another" that you correctly celebrate. The bottom line is that one has to weigh the right of those booked on MSC to be insulated from negative reports with the rights of people shopping for a cruise to access reliable information.

[WhoDat]

MSC ORCHESTRA…..OKAY, LET’S GET SOME PERSPECTIVE HERE!

 

LET'S GET SOME PERSPECTIVE HERE??? WHOSE PERSPECTIVE? YOURS?

 

Just what were you trying to accomplish by starting this thread?

 

PERSPECTIVE DEFINED

one's "point of view", the choice of a context for opinions, beliefs and experiences

 

I have perspective - I don't need to get it!!!!:)

 

It's not the same as yours. It's not the same as Cheryl's. It's not the same as Lard's. It's not the same as Babys's. And so on and so on and on and on and on and on and..........

 

Nobody is forcing choices on you or anyone else. You on the other hand whether it's unconscious or not... ARE. If it's all good you can't get enough of hearing the same things over and over and over, but if it's not......

 

Maybe, just maybe, the tone of MSC threads would change if there was more respect and the agreeing to disagree? Why do we have to force our perspectives on others?

[AmoMondo]

Thank you.

1) I don't like that MSC limits food times. Best I can see from reviews, Breakfast is 30 minutes shorter than other lines. Lunch is hours shorter. And dinner is, perhaps the biggest problem. With the exception of tea sandwiches and room service, it doesn't appear there is any food available after lunch. No buffet in the evening unless you want to PAY for pizza (omitting midnight buffet). How can this be right?

 

Whilst there may be no buffet at dinner there is a 6 course dinner in the dining room at either first or second seating. there is also a midnight every night form 11.30 or 11.45 onwards, so to say there is no food available after lunch, other than pizza that you pay for is not correct. I guess it is partially true if you dont want to use the dining room for dinner. You also have a fruit bowl in your cabin that is filled regularly, so there is that to eat as well in the few hours each day that food is not available.

 

 

- No omlette station for breakfast. Stupid probably, but when I travel breakfast is typically the meal I enjoy the most. An omlette station would be so simple to add. While they are at it, I'd suggest a waffle station also :). HOwever, for the right price, I can eat what is on the buffet.

 

Whilst there is no omelette or waffle station in the buffet both are available in the dining room

 

 

-Limited room service. While all room service menus are limited, it appears that the orchestra has far fewer selections and some are posting that you have to pay? Can anyone post the exact menus for free room service? HOwever, for the right price, I can forgo room service.

 

 

It is free on cruises in the Caribbean and you pay for it elsewhere. It is always free fro the continental breakfast.

 

-Poor food quality. I can supply photos from the jam cruise of food. But, they served a 'onion crisp' salad that was really a piece of lettuce with a cold onion ring and 3 cold fries on it. I wouldn't have believed it myself, if it wasn't for the photo. Can you comment? Hoever, for the right price, I can always find something to eat.

 

OK, I admit I like MSC, if not love them. I'm European and they suit me. this does not make me blind to their faults. Some of the food is excellent - soups (especially the chilled varieties0, Pasta, Pizza, risottos, Ice Cream and most of the appetizers; some is just ok and some not so good. However with 6 courses to choose from at lunch and dinner and them perfectly willing to get you something else if something does not suit you, I've never had a serious problem with the food. The temperature I concede is often not as warm as it could be

 

- Less than friendly workers. Rude is unacceptable from either parties. Was there an element of anti-American from the workers? Unfortunately, once I've made a decision to board, I can't accept negative energy at any cost.

 

The Italian officers and Reception staff can often be aloof, some are not. However I can honestly say that as most of my daily dealings with the crew are the waiters, bar staff, spa & gym staff, cabin crew and entertainment team, I have found them to range form friendly to exceptionally friendly (especially the Philipino and balinese). I have never had a crew member be rude to me ever. As for Anti American - I really could not say as I'm not American

 

 

 

Hi Cheryl

 

I've not been on the Orchestra, but have sailed often with MSC. I'm also a Scot rather than American, so my views may not exactly match yours. Anyway, i've made some comments above to some of yours, not to correct you but to try to help you understand more about this cruiseline. I'd be happy to answer any other questions you may have

[heydn62]

LET'S GET SOME PERSPECTIVE HERE??? WHOSE PERSPECTIVE? YOURS?

 

Just what were you trying to accomplish by starting this thread?

 

PERSPECTIVE DEFINED

one's "point of view", the choice of a context for opinions, beliefs and experiences

 

I have perspective - I don't need to get it!!!!:)

 

It's not the same as yours. It's not the same as Cheryl's. It's not the same as Lard's. It's not the same as Babys's. And so on and so on and on and on and on and on and..........

 

Nobody is forcing choices on you or anyone else. You on the other hand whether it's unconscious or not... ARE. If it's all good you can't get enough of hearing the same things over and over and over, but if it's not......

 

Maybe, just maybe, the tone of MSC threads would change if there was more respect and the agreeing to disagree? Why do we have to force our perspectives on others?

 

Darn it Debbie....Stop making me look forward to this cruise....It's all your fault. You're making me choose MSC!

 

MUST...........REGAIN..........MIND..........CONTROL...........

MUST...........REGAIN..........MIND..........CONTROL...........

 

Maybe if you'd just admit your devious plan to force your perspective on others, we could get back to a friendly, less contentious forum here. I enjoy Cruise Critic and look forward to relaxing at the end of the day and seeing what's new. I'm almost afraid to put my 2 cents in because it may be too optimistic and I'll be challenged.

 

But that's my 2 cents worth. I'm done for now. Attack if you wish - I won't respond.

[owl61]

Darn it Debbie....Stop making me look forward to this cruise....It's all your fault. You're making me choose MSC!

MUST...........REGAIN..........MIND..........CONTROL...........

MUST...........REGAIN..........MIND..........CONTROL...........

Maybe if you'd just admit your devious plan to force your perspective on others, we could get back to a friendly, less contentious forum here. I enjoy Cruise Critic and look forward to relaxing at the end of the day and seeing what's new. I'm almost afraid to put my 2 cents in because it may be too optimistic and I'll be challenged.

But that's my 2 cents worth. I'm done for now. Attack if you wish - I won't respond.

 

Your writing is not as quite as clear as your nice pictures - the kids look sweet and like they are enjoying themselves a lot! Apparently you are one of agentgirl's (Debbie's) April 4 clients and are expressing sarcasm because you think she has been unfairly attacked. People can decide for themselves whether she opened herself up to such comments here and elsewhere and whether anyone has published an unfair attack.

 

As for your two cents, if it is too optimistic (unreasonable) it very well may be challenged. What is wrong with that? You seem to be obscuring a legitimate challenge of a questionable opinion with a rude and unwarranted attack. There is a big difference. Now if you think that my pointing this out is an attack, well you just have a very different way of defining attack.

I hope you and the family and all the others sailing on April 4 have a wonderful cruise. Let's hear about it when you get back.

[vpoopsy]

Geez, people get a grip!! It's a freakin' cruise, not a matter of life and death.

 

Yeah, I went on the Jan 17th cruise and yeah, I wrote a "not so nice" review, but isn't the point of this website for folks like us to be able to share our opinions and experiences?

 

I wasn't crazy about the food, but I didn't starve. I would like to have seen a movie on the big screen, but I survived without it. I didn't even have a wash cloth all week, but I still got clean.

 

If you want to get mad about something, get mad about abuse, crime and our economy!!

 

Just experience life, you only have one!!:D

[long4theocean]

Very well said poopsy. MSC is giving large families the opportunity to take a vacation that they may not be able to afford otherwise. Today after booking 2 large families and as she was hanging up, I hear whoo hoo, that made be feel great because she was happy.

 

One other thing I noticed is that Cheryl says that agentgirl is promoting them because of the big commission check she will receive. Well you know as well as she that the commissions are not that large since the price of the cruise is not that large.

 

I read a review this evening from someone just off of the Orchestra that had a great week. I hope that continues. Everyone can find a complaint with about anything you do. I am complaining because we are going on the Liberty of the Seas and I know that we paid a whole lot of money to go on that ship, but - that was our choice.

 

I belive that there is something for everyone. MSC attracts a lot of first time cruisers, but I have also had repeat guests with them so I guess all is not bad.

[sea-explorer]

Probably the wrong thread, my apologies, but you have 'been about' recently on this one.

 

Just thought I would perhaps mention, I did say on another thread, that all things being equal, price, itinerary, comparability of ship and cabin choice etc, I would choose Celebrity, Hal, Princess,..(also, Regent, Silversea, Cunard etc ;)) over MSC. That of course holds true. What I should perhaps also have said, is that I would probably choose MSC over Carnival, Costa, NCL & even perhaps RCI.

 

Yes, I know my next cruise is with Costa.....I would have preferred MSC but no sailings to Egypt within the Easter break period. Hobson's choice! :)

[cruise-addict]

Whoa!! This thread is way too adversarial for my tastes. I agree, it is not a matter of life and death. And Texas, you said it best!! As long as the family is together and everyone is safe, we can have a good time. But then again, we are realistic down to earth people who can make lemonade out of lemons...NOT subscribing to this thread so let the bashings continue and I will be in peace.

[CherylsCaribbeanTravel]

Excessive Cheerleaders and Ax Grinders will typically evoke passionate responses. Its how the forum universe remains balanced :).

 

Sparky and AmoMondo, You have brought up some excellent points :). I'm going to start a new thread asking for clarification. That way, we can keep this thread open for more 'perspective' chat should the members decide lol!

 

Cheryl :)

[Lard Greystoke]

LET'S GET SOME PERSPECTIVE HERE??? WHOSE PERSPECTIVE? YOURS?

Maybe, just maybe, the tone of MSC threads would change if there was more respect and the agreeing to disagree? Why do we have to force our perspectives on others?

 

I actually agree with the sentiment. I have to disagree with the act or process of explaining the meaning or meanings of a word. I suspect the OP is using "perspective" in a very different intent from forcing anyone's opinion on anyone else.

 

From Webster's Unabridged, 2nd Ed.: "perspective. n. 3b: Capacity to view things in their true relations or relative importance..." In this context I think Lovetexas got it right, that the emotional intensity appropriate to a life/death experience is not appropriate to the availability of shrimp in the buffet. Facts can be debated, but when people attack other people's judgment and motives maybe it's time to take a deep breath - and get some perspective.

[agentgirl]

My intentions were honorable and innocent- never meant to begin an onslaught such as has taken place here, but simply to help those of us still booked to feel good about our upcoming cruise. I must answer (although I’ve tried not to) some of my accusers. And once said….I am done here.

 

By Perspective I meant is as Lard Greystoke has defined it- nothing more, nothing less.

 

When I began looking at MSC in April of last year, it was to be a FAMILY cruise- an opportunity to sail with my daughter and her family as well as my nephew and his family for a great price for Spring Break. The more we thought about and discussed the value, we decided to open it up to FRIENDS at church as well. Word spread about the value and it exploded.

 

FROM THE BEGINNING when family and friends (and then their family and friends) asked me what I knew about MSC my answer was “Very Little”. I explained that they are fairly new to the cruise industry, and as such may not measure up to what the “Big Dogs” can put out- yet. I told them that we were giving them a try, but really didn’t know what to expect. They then chose to book or not to book. I coerced no one and twisted no arms.

 

Since my group has grown so large, the commission (that some seem so focused on) when divided by the number of hours we have spent organizing this group cruise would come out to just over minimum wage. (Personal note…..since I opened my agency 2 years ago I have yet to get a paycheck or even pay myself back a dime toward my initial and on-going investment. I have a wonderful husband who supports me and my dream).

 

There have been a couple of ships on the major lines that I have refused to sell because of the shape they were in. One has recently gone through refurbishment and the other has been sold. The one that was sold was replaced by a sister ship, which I personally booked a cruise on to determine if I would or would not recommend her to my clients. I will recommend her gladly. Commissions do not enter in to what I will or will not recommend. I am much more interested in my clients satisfaction. Believe it…..or not.

 

I do not defend MSC on these boards because I am afraid my clients will cancel this cruise. The truth is very few of the adults going on this cruise with my group read Cruise Critic. How do I know this? Because I am certain they would be calling to ask if all the reviews are true! Some that do frequent CC sought me out- not vice-versa. I support MSC because of the way they have taken care of my group’s issues and requests along the way. Several of my families have been given an exceptional offer….one I’ve never heard of or received from the other lines. I have had exemplary service through their booking department. I am hoping for- and expecting- nothing less on our cruise.

 

Yes, of course it is a money issue for these families! When children 17 and under can sail free that is a major plus to families in these economic times. I have never mentioned that before because I felt it was a no-brainer! Didn’t require mentioning (or so I thought).

 

My personality is such that I look on the bright side of things……some will say that is a personality flaw. Some will say I am naïve. Some will say it is an act to “get the almighty dollar”. I don’t function that way. And I feel sorry for those that do, quite frankly. I started this thread to look at the positives……it was started for a good reason that has turned into a huge and ugly debate. I have conceded that MSC has had problems. I would be an idiot to say otherwise. There have been enough good reviews to give me hope that I am not going to be disappointing a large group of people that I care deeply about. Another FACT: I have to face these people both on the ship and when we return home. I am not a masochist……I do not want to be embarrassed and I truly don’t think I will be. If I am, however, it will be reflected (once) in my detailed review upon my return.

 

Finally, this personal note will mean something to some- nothing to others. But it means everything to me. I am a happy, positive person. I am a Christian woman and I run my business on that basis. Often I falter, stumble, fall and disappoint my Lord. He forgives me and picks me up again. I tell you this without regard or worry about what you may have to say to me or about me now. It doesn’t matter. I know my motives, I know my heart and I know who I am.

 

To anyone I have offended in any of my previous posts, I am sorry. I will not, however, apologize for my positive outlook and views of MSC. I appreciate all the reviews- good and bad. It helps me and all future MSC cruisers to know what to expect and what to look forward to. Hopefully what I have said here will be taken in the spirit in which it is intended. But if not, no worries. I will not be responding further.

 

Have a good day, everyone - and a wonderful cruise no matter the ship or line you choose to sail.

[Forchunut1]

The interesting thing about all this is that there HAS been perspective. Everyone has their own perspective about how things have taken place. You may not agree with someone else's prespective but that's how it goes.

 

I don't agree with criticizing someone because their perspective doesn't agree with your own. All perspectives are valuable.

 

Every cruiseline has cheerleaders and critics. MSC is no different. I'm sure that some of the negative comments have legitimate reasons behind them, as do the positive ones.

 

Let's get real here. We are among the fortunate of the world to even to able to be on a cruise. I don't care if my MSC cruise it perfect or not. I'm just glad to be on a ship which takes me to places that most of the population of the world will never experience.

[lovetexas]

Okay-

Just one more point... not every ship is beautiful,,, not every room is great!

[AmoMondo]

 

Let's get real here. We are among the fortunate of the world to even to able to be on a cruise. I don't care if my MSC cruise it perfect or not. I'm just glad to be on a ship which takes me to places that most of the population of the world will never experience.

 

Cindy what a delightful thing to say and so true too. I was about to say it gives some rel 2perspective" but after all the debate about that, perhaps not!!!!

[Janan]

As far as perspective goes....This thread highlights it....which I would imagine was agentgirl's aim. Everybody here has a different opinion, and each has a right to voice their own......NOW as far as personal attacks Cheryl, all you need do is look in this thread....I would name names but....YOU all know who you are! I was going to SEARCH the forums for other personal attacks on the people that wish to remain optimistic.... but did not (you can if you wish, they are there) for whatever reason (and that is their right) people would like to remain positive. It is not the goal of this forum or of cruise critic (to my understanding, GET IT my opinion) to Flame people, dash their hopes, question their motives but only to share opinions of cruising. I understand that many people are unhappy with their cruising experience., but I have also been disappointed (on a different cruiseline) and I got over it. I cherish my time and energy and I moved on....opinions are fine BUT DO NOT try to exercise control over peoples personal Choice....Get over it people and let people form their own opinions. If you wish to express WHY you disliked the cruise...fine....but let it end their....attacks on people, that have nothing to do with cruising are unacceptable and all you do by acheiving this low is to "negate" your opinion...now if this is your aim....go for it.

 

Andy

[Penny's Loafer]

Perspective. I love it and I loved reading everyone that posted here. Didn't always agree, but I learned a little something from most of them. So thanks to all that contributed.

We are sailing on Mar 28th. This is our 12th cruise and here is my Perspective.

I get to take my wife and kids to see Semana, Antigua, St Martaan and return to Nassau for less then I can stay in a tent at DisneyWorld!!

In the words of that literary genius, Homer Simpson...WHOO HOOO!!!!!!

 

And we don't have to cook!!!