It's easier to do business with the DMV

[Greengo]

We were scheduled to sail on the Veendam out of Fort Lauderdale on April 27, throught the Panama Canal to San Diego. For whatever reason, the Veendam was apparently delayed in dry dock and will not leave Fort Lauderdale until May 1. We understand that these things happen and are beyond the control of HAL.

 

After reviewing the altered schedule, we found that it conflicted with some long standing plans and reluctantly decided to scratch the Veendam Panama Canal trip. We were then were offered other trips which were not compatible with our schedule. Consequently, we cancelled the trip. That part was easy.

 

The hard part was attempting to recover the airfare cancellation fee charged by Orbitz. They want $150 per person and $30 per couple or $330 per couple.

 

My travel agent arranged a 3-party call to HAL. I talked to a nice lady who said that to recover the airfare cancellation fee I would need to talk to "Customer Relations" at 1-877-932 (ext) 4259. I called that number only to find that "it was not 'accessible' from my area code." I then called the number on the HAL web site. After 5 minutes of "If you want...dial..." someone finally answered and, you guessed it. They referred me to another number. When I called that number, a nice lady referred me to the Redeployment Office. When I called them, they said they do not handle airfares and referred me to yet another number where finally a wonderful lady answered and said she would send claim forms.

 

Honestly, I have been treated more professionally and faster by the DMV.

 

I receive one or more HAL advertisements per week trying to get me to cruise with them. I have now tried once and will have a difficult time justifying another attempt. I know that there are things outside of HAL's control. But training their employees to handle simple matters such as this should be standard procedure and relatively uncomplicated.

 

Bah Humbug...what was Seabourn's number???

[HALFans]

The hard part was attempting to recover the airfare cancellation fee charged by Orbitz. They want $150 per person and $30 per couple or $330 per couple.

 

:confused: Orbitz isn't owned by HAL or vice-versa.

 

If you purchased your travel insurance through HAL, they should take care of it no questions asked, and most people state that HAL does an exemplary job in this kind of situation.

 

If you purchased your travel insurance through a 3rd party, they should handle this for you.

 

If you don't have any travel insurance and you purchased your air through Oribtz, it's up to Orbitz (whom your air contract is with) - Not Holland America Lines (even though HAL did change the dates, they've made you some quite reasonable offers).

 

Have I missed something, or are you just unhappy with the results of a "travel insurance gamble"?

[alolewis]

You do not purchase travel insurance to protect yourself against changes by the cruise line, if Holland America changes the cruises they should be obligated to pay all reasonable expenses they cause you to incur. BTW drydock dates are in control of the cruise line, they have a contract with the shipyard, if the shipyard does not meet their contract committments you can believe that they are paying penalties to Holland America, HAL should pay penalties to their customers.

 

If I make a hotel reservation and when I get to the hotel they do not have a room, they don't direct me to my insurance company, they pay for a room else where.

 

I think the OP is making a reasonable request to ask HAL to pay for the penalties of unusable airfares. You met your committment, paid months in advanced and were prepared to show up at the place and time HAL requested.

[pms4104]

:confused: Orbitz isn't owned by HAL or vice-versa.

 

If you purchased your travel insurance through HAL, they should take care of it no questions asked ...

I do not think this statement is totally accurate. HAL insurance will cover only the travel arrangements made thru HAL ... for instance, if the OP had HAL insurance and needed to cancel, there would be no reimbursement from that coverage for air, hotel, cars, etc. purchased independent of HAL.

 

I believe, however, that in the OP's circumstance, HAL should pick up any reasonable air cancel/change fees. And I recall other posters in the same situation indicating that HAL worked with them to their satisfaction.

[HALFans]

You do not purchase travel insurance to protect yourself against changes by the cruise line, if Holland America changes the cruises they should be obligated to pay all reasonable expenses they cause you to incur.

 

I strongly disagree. Holland America should only be obligated for any travel arrangements made with Holland America... Not the cab company you took on the way to the airport, or the shuttle that takes you to the pier, or the airplane that flies you in-between. Where do you draw the line?

[agabbymama]

HAL changed the scheduled cruise, the OP didn't just cancel the cruise. HAL should definitely cough up for the airline cancellation/change fees.

 

When I think of travel insurance, I think that would apply if the OP had to cancel and make changes, not when the cruiseline makes the changes.

 

I could be wrong, I've always purchased travel insurance (but knock on wood) have never had to file a claim.

 

Keep us posted, I'm definitely interestd in the outcome, as HAL is my preferred cruiseline, andthe info could be useful for future reference.

[HALFans]

I do not think this statement is totally accurate. HAL insurance will cover only the travel arrangements made thru HAL ... for instance, if the OP had HAL insurance and needed to cancel, there would be no reimbursement from that coverage for air, hotel, cars, etc. purchased independent of HAL.

 

You may be right - I don't know how HAL handles their insurance. I know that with some 3rd party insurers, you can have a flight here, cruise there, hotel there, show tickets, etc. all booked through different suppliers and insure the whole shebang.

 

I believe, however, that in the OP's circumstance, HAL should pick up any reasonable air cancel/change fees. And I recall other posters in the same situation indicating that HAL worked with them to their satisfaction.

 

It's hard to tell from the original post, but it looks like HAL did try. The most 'reasonable' solution would be for HAL to offer $330 OBC - even though the original funds were collected by Orbitz and HAL is simply out the money. The OP did not schedule a cruise, so no OBC. I'm not sure what else could be expected. You can't stay in business paying people not to cruise with you.

[pms4104]

You may be right - I don't know how HAL handles their insurance. I know that with some 3rd party insurers, you can have a flight here, cruise there, hotel there, show tickets, etc. all booked through different suppliers and insure the whole shebang.

 

 

 

It's hard to tell from the original post, but it looks like HAL did try. The most 'reasonable' solution would be for HAL to offer $330 OBC - even though the original funds were collected by Orbitz and HAL is simply out the money. The OP did not schedule a cruise, so no OBC. I'm not sure what else could be expected. You can't stay in business paying people not to cruise with you.

Went back to the thread start ... and it does make sense that HAL would work with people who really will accept a different HAL cruise ... OBC or absorbing the airline change fee. Question whether HAL will or should do much about a cancel without a rebook.

[hammybee]

Cruise lines have the right to cancel a cruise or ammend its schedule at any point in time. They are not obligated to do more than refund your money including air, provided that they booked the air.

 

I think cruise lines are more open to issuing OBC to cover change/cancel fees when the passenger rebooks another cruise.

[lazey1]

The OP is the one who decided to cancel the cruise after the cruiseline changed the schedule. HAL should not be obligated to pay any airfare as he did not book the airfare through HAL. In my opinion, only if he booked the airfare through HAL and paid for the HAL insurance which covers cancellation for any reason would he have a right to make a claim for reimbursement.

No, I am not and have never been a HAL employee, I was an insurance adjuster for over 40 years.

[Pettifogger]

As I understand it, the complaint was about telephone contacts with HAL, not about who should bear the air cancellation costs, since that hasn't been resolved yet. I hope we shall told what the resolution is.

[hammybee]

As I understand it, the complaint was about telephone contacts with HAL, not about who should bear the air cancellation costs, since that hasn't been resolved yet. I hope we shall told what the resolution is.

 

The cruise contract of every cruise line resolves this. The cruise line has no obligation. That does not however, mean that HAL will not do something, especially if the OP books another cruise. That the OP is getting the runaround is adding salt to the wound. I understand.

[jrzebird]

Since I have very recent (Saturday) experience with canceling a cruise,airfare, hotel, and car I can speak with some authority as to the general experience with HAL in canceling. However, as for the OP's prediciment, I will not venture an opinion. I read the post that they had booked the air through HAL, too. I could be wrong.

 

My experiece was, I made one call to HAL and told them that my DBF had a medical emergency and we had to cancel our 3/8/09 Westerdam cruise. They offered their condolences, did not require any forms to be filled out and returned our entire fare, less the amount paid for the insurance policy (HAL's platinum policy) and about $40.00 for only they know what. I was happy.

 

However, I was not happy with the airline, but I do understand what I have to do to get a full refund (jump through their hoops). The airline (we booked directly with them) took a $220.00 cancelation fee and would only give us a credit on a future flight for the refund, A credit that must be used within a year. "BUT", I agrued, "I have insurance!". Turns out that I have to cancel the flight and then contact the insurance company directly, make a claim, fill out a bunch of forms and provide proof of a medical need to canel the flight. They will then consider our claim for a refund of almost our entire fare. The car and hotel were a breeze.

 

If I had not pushed the insurance angle with the airline, they would never have offered, and I would have accepted the loss of 1/3 of our fare and only a credit for the balance.

 

HAL was wonderful, easy and gracious. I'm sorry that OP had such a time with them. I guess we had different circumstances, but I had to point out what a great experience I had.

[Philip217]

We were scheduled to sail on the Veendam out of Fort Lauderdale on April 27, throught the Panama Canal to San Diego. For whatever reason, the Veendam was apparently delayed in dry dock and will not leave Fort Lauderdale until May 1. We understand that these things happen and are beyond the control of HAL.

 

After reviewing the altered schedule, we found that it conflicted with some long standing plans and reluctantly decided to scratch the Veendam Panama Canal trip. We were then were offered other trips which were not compatible with our schedule. Consequently, we cancelled the trip. That part was easy.

 

The hard part was attempting to recover the airfare cancellation fee charged by Orbitz. They want $150 per person and $30 per couple or $330 per couple.

 

My travel agent arranged a 3-party call to HAL. I talked to a nice lady who said that to recover the airfare cancellation fee I would need to talk to "Customer Relations" at 1-877-932 (ext) 4259. I called that number only to find that "it was not 'accessible' from my area code." I then called the number on the HAL web site. After 5 minutes of "If you want...dial..." someone finally answered and, you guessed it. They referred me to another number. When I called that number, a nice lady referred me to the Redeployment Office. When I called them, they said they do not handle airfares and referred me to yet another number where finally a wonderful lady answered and said she would send claim forms.

 

Honestly, I have been treated more professionally and faster by the DMV.

 

I receive one or more HAL advertisements per week trying to get me to cruise with them. I have now tried once and will have a difficult time justifying another attempt. I know that there are things outside of HAL's control. But training their employees to handle simple matters such as this should be standard procedure and relatively uncomplicated.

 

Bah Humbug...what was Seabourn's number???

 

HAL - like all the other mass market lines - knows that you, like many others, will complain and threaten to go elsewhere. But when it comes time to book, you will vote with your wallet and go back to HAL. That's why they can get away with this and still have full ships.

And that's why Seabourn ships are sailing half full, despite their wonderful, expensive product.

So long as the cruising public values lower price over higher quality, the problems will continue.

[HALFans]

HAL was wonderful, easy and gracious. I'm sorry that OP had such a time with them. I guess we had different circumstances, but I had to point out what a great experience I had.

 

In his own words, the OP had an easy time canceling the Cruise with Holland America Line:

 

After reviewing the altered schedule, we found that it conflicted with some long standing plans and reluctantly decided to scratch the Veendam Panama Canal trip. We were then were offered other trips which were not compatible with our schedule. Consequently, we cancelled the trip. That part was easy.

 

The problem he's having is that he purchased the Airline tickets through Orbitz, and evidently does not have them insured.

 

His difficulty when dealing with HAL now is that he expects them to cover his losses on the Orbitz travel contract.

 

He's getting the runaround because he's 'calling the DMV to get a copy of his fishing license'. No one at the DMV can help and keeps transferring him to someone who might know what to do. After his call gets worked up high enough, someone will recognize that he 'Needs to call the Fish & Game division of the Forestry Department. This is the DMV, Sir.' i.e. - Someone at HAL will finally figure out to refer him to Oribtz - his only legal recourse as that is the only place he has a contract with for Airfare.

 

(And with all of his direct booking with Oribtz, HAL, etc. I'm trying to figure out how the OP's TA is involved and wondering why they aren't handling this or explaining it!)

[alolewis]

The logic that the Op canceled when HAL changed their schedule and the OP could not make the new schedule makes no sense. If my plans change and I need to cancel does HAL give me a refund, NO! (assuming no insurance). HAL keeps my money with the theory that they cannot sell the cabin at such short notice but they really save money as they do not have to serve me meals, clean my empty cabin, etc. A contract cannot be totally one sided, if HAL cancels the cruise which they inherently did when they changed the schedule, they should absorb all the costs whether the OP buys another cruise or not. If I order a book from Amazon and they ship a toaster, Amazon pays the postage to return the incorrect item.

[hammybee]

 

So long as the cruising public values lower price over higher quality, the problems will continue.

 

 

I'm trying to figure out how the OP's TA is involved and wondering why they aren't handling this or explaining it!

 

The travel agent is not making a cent on this transaction because the OP cancelled his/her cruise. Most travel agents know the general public has a tendency to book with the agency who offers the best price, not service.

[hammybee]

 

A contract cannot be totally one sided, if HAL cancels the cruise which they inherently did when they changed the schedule, they should absorb all the costs whether the OP buys another cruise or not.

 

Cruise contracts are far from one sided. Consumers can and do tie up a tremendous amount of inventory for more than a year, increasingly with as little as a $100 deposit. And some of them on or before final payment date do a " never mind" and get their deposit back in N.A.

 

The contract is in total favor of the consumer before final payment date and diminishes, thereafter.

[marle7]

Cruise contracts are far from one sided. Consumers can and do tie up a tremendous amount of inventory for more than a year, increasingly with as little as a $100 deposit. And some of them on or before final payment date do a " never mind" and get their deposit back in N.A.

 

The contract is in total favor of the consumer before final payment date and diminishes, thereafter.

 

Unless you're in the UK of course.

[serendipity1499]

As Hammy stated the HAL contract is very clear about schedule changes..They are not obligated to offer anything to the Passenger, however they usually do offer OBC's as compensation on another cruise...

Therefore, In my opinion, the cancellation fee for the air portion should be handled by the Passengers Insurance Company...

Lazy 1.. I disagree with you..My Travelex (Travel Plus) policy states:

Quote If your travel Supplier cancels your covered trip. You are covered for up to $150 for the reissue fee charged by the airline for your tickets.. You must have covered the entire cost of your trip including the airfare"..Unquote

HAL canceled her trip, therefore if she insured both Air & cruise the Insurance company should pay...But will they pay only the $150 or is this $150 for each passenger?..I'm not sure..Believe the OP should call her insurance Company If she does have insurance..If she did not purchase Insurance then I honestly believe she has no recourse..

That being said, however, I'm totally confused about the following statement in the OPs post...:confused:

Quote: When I called them, they said they do not handle airfares and referred me to yet another number where finally a wonderful lady answered and said she would send claim forms. Unquote

Wonder why a HAL Rep. would send the passenger claim forms, if HAL had no intention of refunding the Orbitz cancellation fee?

Don't believe that anyone on this board can accurately predict or really knows what the outcome will be on this particular claim..

Also agree with those who said, the Travel Agent even though she is losing her commission, should be handling this with HAL, not the Passenger..

If I received this kind of help from my TA, I would contact him/her first for a price on my next trip..Even if the price was just a bit higher, I probably would go with the same TA knowing that their service is excellent..:D

JMO...:)Betty

[YYC F/A]

This is why it is usually better to have your travel professional sell independent travel insurance rather than Holland Americas CPP plan, or indeed any cruiselines plan.

 

While HAL's CPP is probably one of the best cruiseline plans, it should NOT be confused with comprehensive travel insurance. The medical component is minimal compared to most policies with RBC, TravelGuard etc. that go up to $5million.

 

Second, most independent insurance policies have an option to cover independent flight arrangements for precisely this situation. The insurance provider that we use has a $10 premium that covers a full refund of air, hotel or any other independent arrangements that are made if the cruiseline cancels the cruise or makes other changes that necessitate costs or losses in this regard.

 

For guests in good general health and dependent on age, comprehensive travel insurance is usually a lot cheaper than the HAL plan in any event. The only flip side is that you need a valid reason to cancel, e.g. medical, loss of employment, mandatory relocation with work, jury duty, family medical issue etc. etc. You can't just cancel for no real reason like the HAL CPP plan.

[serendipity1499]

This is why it is usually better to have your travel professional sell independent travel insurance rather than Holland Americas CPP plan, or indeed any cruiselines plan.

 

While HAL's CPP is probably one of the best cruiseline plans, it should NOT be confused with comprehensive travel insurance. The medical component is minimal compared to most policies with RBC, TravelGuard etc. that go up to $5million.

 

Second, most independent insurance policies have an option to cover independent flight arrangements for precisely this situation. The insurance provider that we use has a $10 premium that covers a full refund of air, hotel or any other independent arrangements that are made if the cruiseline cancels the cruise or makes other changes that necessitate costs or losses in this regard.

 

For guests in good general health and dependent on age, comprehensive travel insurance is usually a lot cheaper than the HAL plan in any event. The only flip side is that you need a valid reason to cancel, e.g. medical, loss of employment, mandatory relocation with work, jury duty, family medical issue etc. etc. You can't just cancel for no real reason like the HAL CPP plan.

 

YYC..From your post I gather you are a TA..Could I pick your brain?

We usually purchase our insurance independently thru Insuremytrip.com rather than through an Agent & normally purchase the Travel ex Policy..

However our present TA also sells Travelex policy's in conjunction with cruises...However he does not handle Air bookings..Since we normally don't book air, that's ok for us, but don't quite understand how air could be insured on our Agents policy if he did not book it..

You say your Insurance Co, for $10 will insure air hotels etc..Do you book everything for your psgrs. or do some of your psgrs. handle their own land & air ? If so will the Insurance Co. insure air/hotels that you have not handled? for $10.00..

Thanks..:)Betty

[Pettifogger]

Philip2178

First, I must register my dissent to the description of HAL as a "mass market" line; in my humble opinion, as well as that of many others, it's a premium line.

I receive cruise line advertisements almost every day. Many of the mass market and premium lines have reduced their rates substantially in response to the economic slowdown. I have yet to see a substantial reduction in the rates of any of the luxury lines that mail advertisements to me. While that is a defensible management decision, it seems predictable that maintaining rates while premium lines are reducing rates is going to adversely affect the luxury line's occupancy rates and revenues.

On the other hand, I think you're entirely right that most "value conscious" passengers will overlook past slights or annoyances when the offender offers an attractive cruise at an attractive price. I reluctantly admit that I am more or less among them.

[Mary Ellen]

Philip2178

First, I must register my dissent to the description of HAL as a "mass market" line; in my humble opinion, as well as that of many others, it's a premium line.

I'm sorry, but HAL is a mass market line. It may be "better" than some, but it still isn't in the category of the Premiums - Crystal, Regent, Silversea, Seabourn....

 

I do hope that HAL does make the OP "whole". No one should be out money because HAL (or any other cruise line) cancels a cruise.

[pms4104]

I do hope that HAL does make the OP "whole". No one should be out money because HAL (or any other cruise line) cancels a cruise.

I disagree with you ... as HAL did offer a variety of alternate cruises, all of which were declined by the OP. I would suppose that HAL would have been more helpful with airline/Orbitz change fees had the OP booked another cruise, perhaps any cruise within a several-month sailing window had the OP pursued additional cruise options.