All Ocean bars are not the same

[Tamaracboy]

Well - this will probably get deleted, but here goes. The list of non-smoking places on any HAL ship far exceed the few that one can smoke in. Most of us that do smoke, have made the accommodation with little or no complaint . When you confine those that DO smoke to a very few places, than those places will no doubt reek of stale tobacco smoke. Just what did you expect?

Somehow I doubt that the"casino looked like it was on fire" or that the "stink spread on the whole deck".

No doubt it is your devout wish that no one smoked anywhere within your purview and it is obvious that you have plenty of supporters. There ARE cruise lines where that is pretty much the way things are. I suspect that the large "mass market" lines are not willing to alienate that stubborn 20% of adult smokers. My TA has told me that it is virtually impossible to put together a group cruise on Celebrity, but Celebrity is a much smaller line, with not nearly the passenger capacity of HAL, RCCL, Princess or Carnival. There are a lot of berths to fill and, at least for the foreseeable future, they will continue to accommodate us.

You may get your wish in the end, but in the meantime, we are all going to have to get along. May I politely suggest that the constant sniping about it, just aggravates the other side. Sometimes to the point where the more boorish of that 20% will push the established boundaries. That is not a good outcome for anyone.

For the record, I do not smoke in areas not permitted, and never will. If the restrictions become heavier than they already are - well, there are other vacation venues that I, and most of that stubborn 20% (along with many non-smoking spouses), will migrate to.

 

You seem to be amongst the most considerate of smokers, so this is assuredly not directed at you.

It is more for the consideration of other smokers following this thread.

Most of us non-smokers are tolerant enough to allow smokers to pollute their own bodies as they see fit. The intolerance (of some) begins when the effluent reaches unsullied breathing organs.

As in the old adage about free will: "Your right to swing your fists stops where my nose begins."

Please remember also that the sense of smell of a non-smoker is much more perceptive to the stench of both fresh and stale smoke than a smoker's could ever be.

To say oversensitive is, by comparison, accurate. This includes the smell of stale smoke pervading the very fabric of staterooms. This is why so many hotels and some cruise lines do not allow smoking in the rooms.

The natural, original state of the air is un-polluted. Therefore it is the burden of the polluters to mitigate any harm. (sorry, that is tort law)

Do not get me wrong, we know that most of you would really rather not smoke. And we realize that you are actually not in control of your addiction, but are the victims of Tobacco industry marketing.

It is in no way your fault that Congress, in its infinite wisdom, has made Big Tobacco's product legal, while the product of the Cali Cartel is not. 6 to one, 1/2 dozen the other.

Please don't forget that many, many non-smokers are actually still in recovery, and that for quite a few the mere aroma of their former addiction is a temptation to relapse. I know you would not want that on your conscience.

For more than a year HAL has been conducting a smoking survey, so obviously they are considering changes. I personally think that a Duty Free Smoke Shop combined with an enclosed (separate, non-commingled ventilation) "Smoking Bar" could be a very well received addition to the ships. Many airports have gone this "Smoking Room" route. And, of course, smoking on decks should not be a problem as long as the smokers pay attention to "wind direction" when others are present.

And, if other smokers are so considerate, why would they punish the hard working bartenders out of spite ?

 

IMHO if you are on the open ocean with the cleanest air in the world, why not enjoy it. After all you have paid quite a bit of $$$$ to access it.

[solocanadian]

Well - this will probably get deleted, but here goes. The list of non-smoking places on any HAL ship far exceed the few that one can smoke in. Most of us that do smoke, have made the accommodation with little or no complaint . When you confine those that DO smoke to a very few places, than those places will no doubt reek of stale tobacco smoke. Just what did you expect?

 

Somehow I doubt that the"casino looked like it was on fire" or that the "stink spread on the whole deck".

 

No doubt it is your devout wish that no one smoked anywhere within your purview and it is obvious that you have plenty of supporters. There ARE cruise lines where that is pretty much the way things are. I suspect that the large "mass market" lines are not willing to alienate that stubborn 20% of adult smokers. My TA has told me that it is virtually impossible to put together a group cruise on Celebrity, but Celebrity is a much smaller line, with not nearly the passenger capacity of HAL, RCCL, Princess or Carnival. There are a lot of berths to fill and, at least for the foreseeable future, they will continue to accommodate us.

 

You may get your wish in the end, but in the meantime, we are all going to have to get along. May I politely suggest that the constant sniping about it, just aggravates the other side. Sometimes to the point where the more boorish of that 20% will push the established boundaries. That is not a good outcome for anyone.

 

For the record, I do not smoke in areas not permitted, and never will. If the restrictions become heavier than they already are - well, there are other vacation venues that I, and most of that stubborn 20% (along with many non-smoking spouses), will migrate to.

Jimmy2X: Thank you very much for your thoughtful and respectful responce to the smoking issue. I am a smoker and very much respect your comments. As you say, there are other venues for vacation where smoking is allowed. However, as a single woman, cruising is a place where I feel comfortable. When my husband passed away in 1998 I continue to cruise because that is the only place I feel safe. Like you I do Not smoke in non designated areas and those areas have grown larger in the last couple of years on HAL and I (we) have been designated HAL cruisers since 1995. Once Again, Thank you for your thoughtful responce.:)

[kryos]

Are people still permitted to smoke outside on the aft area of the Navigation Deck on the Ryndam? I won't have a balcony, so I figured I could go out back there and use that deck. I never smoke indoors anyways.

For now, yes. But once the ships get that new "Retreat" area back there, I can't imagine that smoking will be allowed any longer. That area is gonna be a big draw for families ... with the bandstand and the big movie screen, and to keep it "family friendly," I would imagine HAL will ban smoking there too.

 

If things keep going the way they are, it might very well become of matter of having to get a balcony cabin if you want somewhere to smoke ... especially if you're sharing your cabin with non-smoking family members who don't want you lighting up in there. :(

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[nursebubba]

The Ocean bar on the Westerdam was non smoking. On Noordam, there were just the bar stools and 4 tables that had smoking permitted signs. Is that so terrible for the smoke haters to let others enjoy? I think that the dance floor was small but very few people danced before dinner. One couple used so much of the floor with swirls, etc. that they removed one table and 4 seats. They spent the day rehearsing showing off. If they stop smoking in the Ocean bar on all the ships I guess we'll save alot on our on board expenses. I am sure that they won't improve their revenue from the non smokers. They also seemed to take up tables and not order drinks.

I think there would be more business in a bar/lounge if the entire thing was non smoking. If a single gal was not comfortable at a table and wanted to sit at the bar for a little conversation it sounds like she would be smack dab in the middle of the smoke. For those who have asthma, traveled for many yrs with one, you can't even enter a room that has only a small section of smoking. Again there are more non smokers out there so I think it just makes sense to me business would increase in these bars as the smoking was removed from them. Another thing to keep in mind esp. on the longer med cruises: we are only able to take so many clothes and plan on wearing them more than once so if around even a smal amt. of smoke the smell is pretty bad even if you are in a room with only a small percentage of smokers. So we would then have to do our laundry/dry cleaning more often. That doesn't seem right. I have gotten used to there being no smoking in any public area except maybe a small are of the casino. If I avoid it I am good to go. This has been the 1st smoking thread I have read so I did not realize HAL still allowed it in so many public areas. Maybe we would have thought to reconsider this cruise due to this. I have tried very hard to make this post be not at all attacking or flamable so hopefully won't get flamed back. Since pretty much all of the US has gone nonsmoking even in bars I am not surprised HAL is tying to go the same direction the other lines have gone. Having a specific room, whether it is called a cigar room or not, for smokers within the ship where they can have comradarie and socialize seems to be the best thing that is working on other lines. Now at least any asthma sufferers can go to a show, the casino or enjoy a dance and drink with their families. I am truly sorry for those of you who are smokers and having to adapt. I lived with an entire family who had to do this.

[kakalina]

. The intolerance (of some) begins when the effluent reaches unsullied breathing organs.

As in the old adage about free will: "Your right to swing your fists stops where my nose begins."

 

Do you really think living in this world that you have unsullied breathing organs? Talk about living in a dream world. :eek:

[Sea King]

 

If things keep going the way they are, it might very well become of matter of having to get a balcony cabin if you want somewhere to smoke ...

 

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

maybe:eek:

 

Ocean Bar is a first big step in the right direction IMHO

 

why not extend the non-smoking to balconies .. no sense repeating the statistics .. fact is 75-80% of pax don't smoke

 

congraulations to HAL .. no question you are listening to the pax and reading the surveys:)

[sail7seas]

My fear was HAL would become known as the 'smokers' cruise line and smokers would leave less permissive lines and flock to HAL for their more liberal smoking policy. This change certainly sends the message HAL will also be more stringent about where smoking is permitted. My guess is balconies will soon be nixed as well. They are following what is happening in almost every state, many countries.

 

Kudos to HAL for listening to the vast majority of your Mariners/cruisers.

[brucory]

My guess is balconies will soon be nixed as well.

 

This would be wonderful... I could stand on my balcony and watch the ocean as we cruise withour worrying about getting ash in my eyes, or worse still, in my glass of wine...

 

We had Fag Ash Lil on the balcony above us (fwd) last cruise and she was determined to get me each time I ventured out...

 

:(:(:(

[Tamaracboy]

Do you really think living in this world that you have unsullied breathing organs? Talk about living in a dream world.

 

You must have missed the part where I mentioned being at sea where the air IS cleaner. :)

As well as the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ spent to enjoy this rarity. :eek:

AND Perhaps you've never been to San Francisco, where the air IS also cool fresh and clean ? :cool:

AND if a cruise can't be a dream world, what hope is there ??? :rolleyes:

So truly sorry for you that you don't enjoy even your own dreams. :(

[m steve]

came from the ships smoke stacks. One inconsiderate person should not screw things up for the rest of the smokers. Rarely noticed smoke oder on our aft balconies including that from my partner who smokes. I don't.

[martinimadam]

Know most of you non-smokers will love this, but, guess I'll have to find another cruise line if they no longer allow smoking in the very restricted area that was allowed in the Ocean Bar. Very disappointing! But, as a solo cruiser, I certainly don't plan on spending my evenings in my cabin, if that's the only place smoking is allowed! Sorry HAL, but, you've lost a pretty big spender, here.

[Sir PMP]

Smokers should hang out on their balcony or in their cabin or cruise on an all 'smoking' ship, it's about time that we don't have that awful dead smoke smell in the ocean bar anymore! By the way, the biggest violators are the crew themselves!

[Sir PMP]

Know most of you non-smokers will love this, but, guess I'll have to find another cruise line if they no longer allow smoking in the very restricted area that was allowed in the Ocean Bar. Very disappointing! But, as a solo cruiser, I certainly don't plan on spending my evenings in my cabin, if that's the only place smoking is allowed! Sorry HAL, but, you've lost a pretty big spender, here.

 

Great! Bye bye now!

[mudscraper]

Being tobacco chewers,we always book a verandah.

 

 

Rich

[traveler111]

On the 3/5/09 Ryndam sailing there was smoking in the Crow's Nest.

[sylteach]

Is smoking permitted on the Navigation Deck outside by the aft pool under the roof that sticks out? Ryndam

[RuthC]

Is smoking permitted on the Navigation Deck outside by the aft pool under the roof that sticks out? Ryndam

So far, yes.

[Tamaracboy]

Being tobacco chewers,we always book a verandah.

Rich

 

I certainly would NOT want to be on my verandah below you :p

[lizzyg]

Hey Are you saying that us non-smokers don't drink. I'll have you know that I'll drink a bottle and a half of wine a day every day. That's after the lunch time cocktails of couse and the champagne on the balcony. Only kidding! Maybe not the champagne.