Advice needed: Scuba Diver or Open Water?

Hi all -

This looks like the place to try and get some feedback regarding the PADI Scuba Diver vs. Open Water certifications. After a bit of research I think I have the major differences understood...

Scuba Diver is less intensive to get (e.g. cruise we're doing in March has an excursion that certifies at the end w/ the two dives in St. Marteen) but also limits how deep we can go and requires an instructor or dive master at all times. I read somewhere it's OK for those who dive while on vacations, etc. and don't/won't go out specifically just to dive.

Open Water is the real deal. Deeper, without many of the restrictions per se. But also comes at cost of more time, more dives, and more money. :)

Am I off on anything?

Ultimately the DW and I are going on our second cruise soon. On our first two-plus years ago, we snorkeled in Laberdee and loved it! I can't help but imagine I'd very much enjoy the full picture that scuba brings...but I'm just wondering about which certification makes more sense. We have older children who'll keep us from any real time away for the next 5-8 years (this trip is special - 20th anniversary and DWs 40th birthday wrapped together :)). But once they're on their own, the travel/vacationing will be full steam ahead.

A lot of this is rhetorical...I know nobody can really help me decide. But I'm hoping there's someone on the board who was in a similar situation (or not) and walked me through your thought patterns. If not...then just typing it out is a bit cathartic anyways. :D

Thanks in advance for the insights, feedback and whatnot!

I think if you review the various certification levels (talking PADI here, I'm not familiar with other agencies), a Scuba Diver certification level doesn't really clear you to do anything more than you'd otherwise be able to do on an introductory Discover Scuba dive. You're limited to 40 feet and have to dive with an instructor/DM. So at the end of the day I question the value of that level of certification.

With an Open Water certification you and your wife would be able to pair off as a buddy team and be a little more independent during any dive that you'd do as a Scuba Diver (typically Caribbean dives are more or less guided or led by an Instructor/DM but you'd be more free to check things out on your own) plus you'd be cleared to dive to 60 feet without having the DM essentially holding your hand the whole time.

The Open Water course is five confined water and four open water dives - not much more than you're signed up for for Scuba Diver. It's also a few more chapters in the manual but nothing too technical about it.

I first dove last Christmas in the British Virgin Islands over the wreck of the RMS Rhone on a Discover Scuba dive. With a depth limit of 40 feet we really could only descend the mooring line and re-ascend to the surface. Even this was a great first exposure to scuba with fish and porpoises in view but all of the "interesting" parts of the Rhone are 70 to 75 feet down so I came home and immediately signed up with a local dive shop to take my Open Water course. Since then I've also certified Advance Open Water (it's really more of a 201-level diving course to accompany Open water's 101-level) and Nitrox and have dived the wrecks of North Carolina with the sharks at depths in excess of 100 feet.

If you think you'll only dive in the Caribbean during cruises I'd recommend getting a PADI Open Water certification so you can be a little more independent on your dive with more depth to play in, and maybe you'll consider further certifications to increase your skills and ability to experience great dives close to home. There are a lot of good dives within a day's drive of Philadelphia.

About me - I'm 56 and recently retired and have enjoyed snorkeling for many years but scuba diving is in many ways easier and certainly more thrilling than snorkeling ever was.

Open Water is the real deal

true, or to put it another way .... this topic was discussed AT LENGTH not too long ago and beat to death . . . but a very good statement was made:

Once a diver has completed Open Water certification, they are considered an "Autonomous Diver". They can go to a dive shop obtain air fills, and dive. They can dive without any supervision by an instructor or divemaster.

This is the level of qualification you need to participate in a dive excursion from a cruise, or just join a dive trip. When a dive operation says they want to see your C-Card they mean Open Water or better (advanced, dive master ...) Even tho a dive excursion might be 'led' by a DM, their role is NOT the 'supervision' required by someone with SCUBA DIVER certification.

see: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2125070 post #14

Hi all -

 

...Scuba Diver is less intensive to get (e.g. cruise we're doing in March has an excursion that certifies at the end w/ the two dives in St. Marteen) but also limits how deep we can go and requires an instructor or dive master at all times. I read somewhere it's OK for those who dive while on vacations, etc. and don't/won't go out specifically just to dive.

 

Open Water is the real deal. Deeper, without many of the restrictions per se. But also comes at cost of more time, more dives, and more money. :)

cathartic anyways. :D

 

Thanks in advance for the insights, feedback and whatnot!

SCUBA diving is classed as a hazardous sport, it is safe with correct training, certification, AND experience.

It is a sport with risks, like every other sport. Things can, and sometimes do, go wrong and good training prepares you to deal with them should the unexpected happen.

Personally, I would consider the extra time and extra cost for more in-depth training to be well worth it, for your own safety and confidence in the water.

For me, advanced training is not about 'depth' but extra knowledge, extra skills, extra experience and confidence.

SCUBA is a exhilarating sport, good sound training can help you to enjoy it, safely.

Happy diving.

Yes, open water is the real deal. The PADI "Scuba Diver" is really just a half measure that PADI came up with, for those who didn't get OW, but gets some recognition for going half way. To dive, you don't want to be half safe.

The OW is really just the beginning. It allows you to dive.

In fact, after OW, it's best to get the AOW. It allows you to go deeper than 40', and do/see much more. But start with OW.

OW - in case you need more data. You can dive anywhere you want, on your own or with a guide. On your own being a big benefit in places like Curacao and Bonaire where shore-diving is king.

There's not much better than stepping (or jumping) into the water with no one but your buddy and doing whatever dive you choose.

If you haven't done a discover scuba yet (AKA "resort course") I'd recommend trying it to get a taste of diving, as well as dive training.

(talking PADI here, I'm not familiar with other agencies),

SSI - Scuba Schools International

My first certification was with PADI but I have received all my advanced courses with SSI. I like their program better.

You have several choices to get certified. You can do your classroom at a dive shop in your hometown or even on-line. Do the pool training with your local shop and then the open water dives while on vacation. The only problem with that is that many places in the Caribbean will charge you as much for that as the entire course costs back home. But if you want to be certified for a winter vacation and live in a cold climate, not too many choices.

Safety is the number one concern with our dive shop and I know there are wonderful shops in the Caribbean but it is your life and things can happen.

Get the open water certification. The more courses you take, the more comfortable you will be diving.

My husband and I are doing the PADI etraining and then we have arranged to do our pool work and possibly up to two OW dives in Key Largo the day before our cruise. With the etraining, we can do that much in just a single day- a long one, but a single day.

Following that, I have arranged 2 OW dives in Cozumel and 2 in Grand Cayman with highly recommended dive shops known for very small groups and personal attention. Both shops are being flexible with us in that they will do whatever part of the certification process with us that we need at the time of our visit. If we are certified by the time we get to Grand Cayman, we will just do two guided dives with the second shop. We may have to pay extra for the private instruction/guides but it is worth it to us to get the personal attention as we embark on learning to dive.

This approach may not be the best, but for us, living in northern New Engand, over 90 minutes from the closest dive shop, and not having the spare time to invest in a class unless we are on vacation, it seems to be the most pragmatic.

We did a Discover Scuba on our previous cruise and decided that we'd like to be able to dive while on our vacations, and that is our reason for working on the certification. We will probably always go on guided dives, and likely always with a private divemaster.

You can dive on vacation with just the Scuba Diver certification, but you have to arrange it privately with a dive shop to ensure you have a private divemaster. I think this would be better than repeating the Discover Scuba since you wouldn't have to do the instructional part (video, basic skills, etc.) again on subsequent dives. But again, it only works if you are comfortable making independent arrangements in your ports.

Also, you can upgrade the Scuba Diver certification to Open Water. The dive shop that I spoke to in Cozumel said that the cost of the upgrade would be about the same as doing the last two open water certification dives with us if we had an open water referral or doing two guided dives with us if we had the Scuba Diver certifcation only. We are considering filing the paperwork for the Scuba Diver certification in Key Largo. This was recommended to us because it is a lifetime certification that will allow us to dive with a private dive master while an open water referral (the paperwork required to finish your open water certication at another dive shop) is only good for a year.

The only possible downside is cost (since I expect there is some cost for a dive shop to register the Scuba Diver level certification with PADI and that will be passed on to us). By the way, I agree with above posters that more instruction is safest, and that is why we are planning to complete the full Open Water certification. The Scuba Diver level certification, is for us, a plan B in case something unexpected happens (e.g., delayed flights, missed ports) and we have to do the upgrade some time after this cruise.

gryffin, your second post makes the points I was thinking of making. Get the Scuba Diver card from Key Largo and parlay that into an OW card in one of your resorts.

PADI sets it up so that you can dive under instruction for years, picking up specialty certifications as you go (deep, wreck, night, boat, etc.).

Thanks to everyone for the insightful feedback. With all of it in mind, and having talked to a colleague here who is OW certified, I'm going to sit tight for this coming cruise and work towards the OW work next summer. Fortunately we have both several dive shops and a dive site (Dutch Springs) less than 15 minutes from the house. Should make for a relatively simple experience.

Ha, I've dove at Dutch Springs, PA.

Well, it's winter now. In the summer it should be good to dive there. It's not cheap though, but at least it's close to you.

Following that, I have arranged 2 OW dives in Cozumel and 2 in Grand Cayman with highly recommended dive shops known for very small groups and personal attention. Both shops are being flexible with us in that they will do whatever part of the certification process with us that we need at the time of our visit. If we are certified by the time we get to Grand Cayman, we will just do two guided dives with the second shop. We may have to pay extra for the private instruction/guides but it is worth it to us to get the personal attention as we embark on learning to dive.

I just wanted to ask ... Who are you using in Grand Cayman and Cozumel? My husband and I are newly certified so I want to use dive shops who have small groups for our upcoming cruise.

Thank you!

My DW and I went scuba diving in grand cayman while we wee in our second cruise. Carnival used Don Fosters. Would not hesitate to utilize them again

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I think I would skip PADI Scuba Diver and either do a Resort Course or the Openwater class. It may well be that one of the dive shops in your area offers a free introduction to diving in an indoor pool or maybe at Dutch Springs in warm weather.

Who you use as Dive operator depends on several factors.

1 ship arrival time can affect securing you own dive operator. Late arrival means that most of the operators boats have gone out already as the boats go out between 7:00 am to 9:00 am. You maybe able to find an operator with a late boat. Just because your ship is supposed to dock at say 8:00 am you may not be able to make a 9:00 am boat if the ship is late, you get delayed disembarking and/ finding transport/travel time. You may find afternoon dives with one of the operators.

2 You will have to arrange transport to and from the operators shop/boat, taxi, walk, arrange pickup, at your expense. The cruise lines will not let non-cruise excursions use the pier

3 the divers on your boat maybe more experienced divers and you may end up on dives that you are not comfortable with or are beyond your experience level.

4 if you secure your own dives and there is a problem with transport, boat ect. and you get held up and can not get back by departure time the ship will WILL NOT wait for you.

The operators the cruise lines use are geared to new/inexperienced divers. They will take you to sites that are not difficult, they use the most common denominator for their dives.