Any info on Freedom's issue?

Any information on FotS' fire issues? Is it going to be repaired/dry docked? We're considering a trip in the fall and were just wondering if there are any anticipated schedule disruptions, etc. TIA.

Any information on FotS' fire issues? Is it going to be repaired/dry docked? We're considering a trip in the fall and were just wondering if there are any anticipated schedule disruptions, etc. TIA.

Here is the current thread on the topic:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2239424

Here is the current thread on the topic:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2239424

Thanks. Didn't see anything about repairs, plans or schedule disruptions, though.

I was on the cruise... I venture to say there will not be any service disruptions... repairs will be made while sailing.

I was really surprised we left Jamaica when we did and everything else was on track.

Thanks. Didn't see anything about repairs, plans or schedule disruptions, though.

Too lazy to post links, but the thread "now that the fire is out" has several of my posts regarding repairs. At most, I suspect that one engine was damaged that caused the fire (again, speculative), and that she completed the cruise without that engine (not at all uncommon, one is frequently out of service for a few weeks for overhaul), but the engine itself could be repaired by now. However, if as I think, the fire was in one of the exhaust pipes, that could take a couple of weeks to fix. If folks start seeing sections of pipe about 18" in diameter and 15-20 feet long showing up on the dock in Florida, then that's what is going on. As I said in the other thread, since the damage is limited to non-passenger and non-hotel crew spaces, I doubt the ship will be taken out of service, and I doubt you will see any difference in repair areas other than what is currently there for the scrubber installations.

No damage to any engines. Vessel made almost 22 knots that same night en-route to Grand Cayman.

Thanks all for the info. Seems there was no major damage and thus no expected schedule disruption. :)

Too lazy to post links, but the thread "now that the fire is out" has several of my posts regarding repairs. At most, I suspect that one engine was damaged that caused the fire (again, speculative), and that she completed the cruise without that engine (not at all uncommon, one is frequently out of service for a few weeks for overhaul), but the engine itself could be repaired by now. However, if as I think, the fire was in one of the exhaust pipes, that could take a couple of weeks to fix. If folks start seeing sections of pipe about 18" in diameter and 15-20 feet long showing up on the dock in Florida, then that's what is going on. As I said in the other thread, since the damage is limited to non-passenger and non-hotel crew spaces, I doubt the ship will be taken out of service, and I doubt you will see any difference in repair areas other than what is currently there for the scrubber installations.

One nice thing about Terminal 1 in PC, is the ability to walk up and see what's going on. T3 is the same way when Anthem and Grandeur visit

No damage to any engines. Vessel made almost 22 knots that same night en-route to Grand Cayman.

the engines are prime movers for the generators and i'm sure there is redundancy. not 100% on this

PGold, I second Your opinion, I asked my father his thoughts (Ex. Navy Powerhouse Guy), The way we understand it, (Chengkp75 will correct me if Im wrong,HOPEFULLY) These ships Have several Generators, Some for Hotel services etc. and some For Powering the pods/Thusters. Not like back in the day when a particular Engine turned a particular screw. Essentially You could say that the propulsion of this ship relies on the Electricity made by the Generators. I am sure there is much back-up available, hence why she still made 22knots. Dan

PGold, I second Your opinion, I asked my father his thoughts (Ex. Navy Powerhouse Guy), The way we understand it, (Chengkp75 will correct me if Im wrong,HOPEFULLY) These ships Have several Generators, Some for Hotel services etc. and some For Powering the pods/Thusters. Not like back in the day when a particular Engine turned a particular screw. Essentially You could say that the propulsion of this ship relies on the Electricity made by the Generators. I am sure there is much back-up available, hence why she still made 22knots. Dan

Freedom has 6 giant generators, and I don't believe generators are normally dedicated to hotel services or propulsion, they all produce power for whatever the ship needs. However, I'm not sure about this and I'd love to hear from our resident chief engineer.

YUP Bob Im waiting to hear from him as well. Im a love anything that floats type of guy. That man intrigues me with his Knowledge. Dan

PGold, I second Your opinion, I asked my father his thoughts (Ex. Navy Powerhouse Guy), The way we understand it, (Chengkp75 will correct me if Im wrong,HOPEFULLY) These ships Have several Generators, Some for Hotel services etc. and some For Powering the pods/Thusters. Not like back in the day when a particular Engine turned a particular screw. Essentially You could say that the propulsion of this ship relies on the Electricity made by the Generators. I am sure there is much back-up available, hence why she still made 22knots. Dan

correct. im an electrician that works on generator all the time. its basically supply and demand. if the demand for power goes down its possible for a generator to shut down and save fuel. the motors full speed is something 800RPM the pistons are like 3 feet in diameter. I think the ship has 3 prime movers and prob. only needs one to operate the ship. but they would run 2 of them so that one alone is not running at full load. the 3rd is purely redundant.

And what is going on now maybe there is one engine with a very bad exhaust leak.. pure speculation on the exhaust leak..

PGold, I second Your opinion, I asked my father his thoughts (Ex. Navy Powerhouse Guy), The way we understand it, (Chengkp75 will correct me if Im wrong,HOPEFULLY) These ships Have several Generators, Some for Hotel services etc. and some For Powering the pods/Thusters. Not like back in the day when a particular Engine turned a particular screw. Essentially You could say that the propulsion of this ship relies on the Electricity made by the Generators. I am sure there is much back-up available, hence why she still made 22knots. Dan

Freedom has 6 giant generators, and I don'tbelieve generators are normally dedicated to hotel services or propulsion, they all produce power for whatever the ship needs. However, I'm not sure about this and I'd love to hear from our resident chief engineer.

Sorry, out working on the house, today. Freedom has 6 identical diesel generators. These all generate 10,000 volt power. The azipods, thrusters, and A/C chillers are all 10k volt motors. The power is then stepped down to 480v for equipment, and then 220v and 110v for lighting and appliances, etc. The generators are all connected to a common electrical "bus" from which all the electrical consumers draw. So, there is no "hotel" generator, or "propulsion" generator.

The automation will start another generator when the load reaches 80-85% of the online capacity, and will also shut down a generator when load drops below this. Normally, the hotel load in port is covered by one generator.

Ships like Breakaway, that only have 4 engines are somewhat different, but the 5 or 6 engine ships are designed so that they can maintain full speed with one engine out of service. This is real common, since the engines are totally overhauled every 12,000 hours (about every 2 years). These overhauls require about 3 weeks, so the ships very routinely sail with one engine out of service for weeks at a time.

So, there could have been damage to one engine, not doubting what the PP stated, but unless the word has been passed onboard to that effect, I still think this was a turbocharger fire that broke through up where they were working on the exhaust pipes for the scrubbers.

Sorry, out working on the house, today. Freedom has 6 identical diesel generators. These all generate 10,000 volt power. The azipods, thrusters, and A/C chillers are all 10k volt motors. The power is then stepped down to 480v for equipment, and then 220v and 110v for lighting and appliances, etc. The generators are all connected to a common electrical "bus" from which all the electrical consumers draw. So, there is no "hotel" generator, or "propulsion" generator.....

Thanks for this.

I have a question for which the answer may be too involved/technical for this forum (and your time), so feel free to ignore it. It's just something that as an electrical engineer (digital circuits, not power) I've been wondering about.

I know that having 6 generators gives them redundancy. However, unless there are multiple power busses running throughout the ship, don't the generators have to combine power at some single piece of equipment? If so, would that not be a single point of failure for the ship's power?

Thanks for this.

 

I have a question for which the answer may be too involved/technical for this forum (and your time), so feel free to ignore it. It's just something that as an electrical engineer (digital circuits, not power) I've been wondering about.

 

I know that having 6 generators gives them redundancy. However, unless there are multiple power busses running throughout the ship, don't the generators have to combine power at some single piece of equipment? If so, would that not be a single point of failure for the ship's power?

No problem, Bob, too hot to be messing with a 190 year old front porch. :D

Each engine room (forward and aft) feeds a separate main switchboard, that are joined together at one tie circuit breaker. Each of these buses feed the major power users (10k v) separately. So, an azipod will have a feeder breaker from each main switchboard, one energized, and one in standby if the first opens. So, the only cabling that is doubled is from one switchboard room to the other. Some large motors like propulsion motors have dual windings, so that each bus supplies half the power.

Now, for everything below 10k volts, there are feeder panels in each fire zone, that supply all power for that zone, so that all power in a zone that has a fire can be isolated without affecting the other fire zones. Each 480v feeder panel will also be fed from each main switchboard, one breaker energized, one in standby, so that all minor users can be powered from each main switchboard. This goes all the way down to the 220/110v lighting and receptacles.

So, if something affects the forward switchboard, the tie breaker can be opened, and the alternate feeder breakers closed, if needed, and you can run all hotel and engineering functions, with about half the propulsion and A/C (though you normally are not running more than half the chillers anyway).

Here's the flaw with the design of the majority of Carnival ships (Triumph and all derivative classes), that has been rectified as part of the "big upgrade" as a result of the Triumph. Most ships have each main switchboard in a separate room, and the Engine Control Room in a third room. Triumph had all three in the same room. Now, the fire in the aft engine room burned the cables coming from the generators in the forward engine room (which passed through the aft engine room on the way to the ECR). So, not only did the fire damage the wiring in the aft engine room, but the forward engine room became unusable because its wiring was damaged as well. Let me add that ships with separate switchboard rooms will also have them in separate fire zones, along with the engine rooms, so damage to one engine room will only cause damage to one switchgear room.

Triumph's problems were exasperated by having the ECR in with the switchboards, so as the smoke and heat carried up the cabling, things in the ECR started to melt as well, and it became uninhabitable.

So, to answer your question after all that, the one single point that separates the redundancy is the tie breaker between the two switchboards.

No problem, Bob, too hot to be messing with a 190 year old front porch...

Thanks a bunch for this. I'm saved it and am going to have to read it a few times to try to absorb.

Thanks a bunch for this. I'm saved it and am going to have to read it a few times to try to absorb.

No problem, ask any further clarifications you need. I do tend to ramble. :p

No problem, ask any further clarifications you need. I do tend to ramble. :p

I have learned so much from your ramblings. Thanks for your presence on CC.:)

I am currently sitting in the Diamond Lounge on board FOS. There is nothing in evidence of the fire except that the ladders to deck 15, and the card room on 14 are closed. There is a distinct but mild odor from about deck 11 up on the port side suggesting some sort of electrical fire occurred. When she pulled into PC last Sunday, the stacks had even been cleaned possibly painted such that you could not see any damage that was so evident in the photos last week. There have been no mechanical issues and the venues other than the aforementioned are all open.

I am currently sitting in the Diamond Lounge on board FOS. There is nothing in evidence of the fire except that the ladders to deck 15, and the card room on 14 are closed. There is a distinct but mild odor from about deck 11 up on the port side suggesting some sort of electrical fire occurred. When she pulled into PC last Sunday, the stacks had even been cleaned possibly painted such that you could not see any damage that was so evident in the photos last week. There have been no mechanical issues and the venues other than the aforementioned are all open.

Thanks for the on the scene report.:) Nice to know the DL is open.

I am currently sitting in the Diamond Lounge on board FOS. There is nothing in evidence of the fire except that the ladders to deck 15, and the card room on 14 are closed. There is a distinct but mild odor from about deck 11 up on the port side suggesting some sort of electrical fire occurred. When she pulled into PC last Sunday, the stacks had even been cleaned possibly painted such that you could not see any damage that was so evident in the photos last week. There have been no mechanical issues and the venues other than the aforementioned are all open.

Card room has been closed forever. Scrubber team took it over

I am currently sitting in the Diamond Lounge on board FOS. There is nothing in evidence of the fire except that the ladders to deck 15, and the card room on 14 are closed. There is a distinct but mild odor from about deck 11 up on the port side suggesting some sort of electrical fire occurred. When she pulled into PC last Sunday, the stacks had even been cleaned possibly painted such that you could not see any damage that was so evident in the photos last week. There have been no mechanical issues and the venues other than the aforementioned are all open.

Thanks for posting & we're glad to hear most things have already been cleaned up & in use again. Is Olive & Twist open?

On another note, my Dad was a Seabee during WW11 & my former husband was also a Seabee. We were stationed in Oxnard, CA as was my Dad ! :) Thank you for your service.

No problem, Bob, too hot to be messing with a 190 year old front porch. :D

 

Each engine room (forward and aft) feeds a separate main switchboard, that are joined together at one tie circuit breaker. Each of these buses feed the major power users (10k v) separately. So, an azipod will have a feeder breaker from each main switchboard, one energized, and one in standby if the first opens. So, the only cabling that is doubled is from one switchboard room to the other. Some large motors like propulsion motors have dual windings, so that each bus supplies half the power.

 

Now, for everything below 10k volts, there are feeder panels in each fire zone, that supply all power for that zone, so that all power in a zone that has a fire can be isolated without affecting the other fire zones. Each 480v feeder panel will also be fed from each main switchboard, one breaker energized, one in standby, so that all minor users can be powered from each main switchboard. This goes all the way down to the 220/110v lighting and receptacles.

 

So, if something affects the forward switchboard, the tie breaker can be opened, and the alternate feeder breakers closed, if needed, and you can run all hotel and engineering functions, with about half the propulsion and A/C (though you normally are not running more than half the chillers anyway).

 

Here's the flaw with the design of the majority of Carnival ships (Triumph and all derivative classes), that has been rectified as part of the "big upgrade" as a result of the Triumph. Most ships have each main switchboard in a separate room, and the Engine Control Room in a third room. Triumph had all three in the same room. Now, the fire in the aft engine room burned the cables coming from the generators in the forward engine room (which passed through the aft engine room on the way to the ECR). So, not only did the fire damage the wiring in the aft engine room, but the forward engine room became unusable because its wiring was damaged as well. Let me add that ships with separate switchboard rooms will also have them in separate fire zones, along with the engine rooms, so damage to one engine room will only cause damage to one switchgear room.

 

Triumph's problems were exasperated by having the ECR in with the switchboards, so as the smoke and heat carried up the cabling, things in the ECR started to melt as well, and it became uninhabitable.

 

So, to answer your question after all that, the one single point that separates the redundancy is the tie breaker between the two switchboards.

Thank you for your posts. You certainly know you ships. I venture to say many readers like myself are very impressed. Well done Sir.

Card room has been closed forever. Scrubber team took it over

Maybe that's why they did not put Izumi up there, like they did on the Voyager class ships.