Cap_D

Exactly. There's a huge reliance on bologna and similar lunch meats.

Agree, plus some consistency would be helpful. However, Celebrity has likely determined that a grill to order setup exposes the lack of quality and freshness in the MDRs or even the so called specialities. That's also what Rooftop Grill kind of was when it was open and before its menu shrank. Can one order dinner room service to the OVC or another location, and are the options of decent quality and cooked to order? What kitchen and refrigerator drawer is used for those items? Bottom line: a cruise vacation shouldn't require this much gamesmanship or tradeoffs before or during a trip.

With regard to cutting entertainment, there's not much that can be cut before the ships become a bunch of bars, low wage staff, a relatively small pool for the number of people, and increasingly mediocre food and presentation. There are a few LED screens and speakers that are already installed, sunk cost in multipurpose venues (that sit vacant a good part of the day), and a handful of performers and instrument players. It's all a bit opaque before one gets on board, and lightly staffed. Much of the entertainment is pre-recorded Deal or No Deal, self-play (like the casino, silent disco or singing Sweet Caroline in the plaza (that seems to pass as entertainment from what we can tell), two ping pong tables, coloring like in nursery school in Eden (that was an activity we saw on Edge), the bartenders at the Martini Bar, and officers answering questions or playing trivia to avoid boredom and saving Celebrity money. 100% agree re the soup kitchen reference. The quality and combination of items just doesn't fit, nor does the reduced OVC when considering the rest of the available options whether included or for an upcharge. And, from what we can tell, the Rooftop Garden Grill is not even always open (missing from cruise planner for an April cruise), so that eliminates the one speciality option that is closest to cooked to order, with simpler prepared mains that can't be masked by sauces or steam. The menu at Rooftop Garden Grill has also been reduced from what we can tell. The other specialty restaurants with perhaps the exception of a prime style piece of beef at the steakhouse seem like one and done type experiences, and there's nothing quick or relaxing in their design or execution. There's also nothing Gen X or modern about 4 MDR banquet style dining rooms. As has been discussed, the menus and quality has been reduced, and there's only a small number of themed items per menu. E.g., no Italian restaurant for a mass audience has as few Italian dishes as the faux Tuscany on Edge class. The dinner options, including the so-called leftover buffet, presentation, and so on don't compete with options that exist in everyday life, other travel experiences; and they're definitely not aspirational. There's a real need for Celebrity to rethink the venue configurations, menus, and food quality instead of haphazard cuts. Otherwise, they have nothing except some pretty ships, and a number of aging ships. For example, they could reduce the number of banquet style venues, and add more cooked to order, or food hall options that are appealing - and appropriately sized. Mediterranean done as a food hall could probably net a few more options using the same base ingredients, e.g., the Cava quick serve chain, and space. Not like the food in the MDRs is freshly prepared, in any event. Most people see past the china and table cloths when the quality doesn't match). Moreover, most of the MDRs and specialty spaces go unused a good portion of each day, as does the OVC. Perhaps not the greatest design if it requires a full ship and 2018 food costs to support.

Agreed. Head scratcher. They are on the kids menu for MDR (https://www.celebritycruises.com/things-to-do-onboard/camp-at-sea/kids-menu). Hopefully, at least fresh stock, and not sitting in the freezer for six months (we've seen bags of fries at Mast Grill and used throughout the ship that seem unattainable in the U.S. on a final Carribean cruise in 2022 - they were fine, but overused and the repetition added an institutional feel to anything they accompanied day-after-day). Nothing wrong with advance purchasing, but fish sticks are not even higher end freshly made fish and chips.

100% agree. The excuses don't jive when a company can purchase food through master contracts for the entire Royal Caribbean fleet, and many people pay thousands and have other options (albeit are locked in months or years in advance). Celebrity will quickly be known as having the best bologna and bread pudding stations among cruise lines. The Circus Circus casino buffet has more options, and not sure the quality or age of the dishes here are any better. There's a lot of room between heat lamp turkey, chicken chop suey, the bread pudding, and cold looking pizza and anything that has been suggested by CC's on a parallel thread (like some cooked to order stations) as a substitute. Also, had Celebrity been thinking they'd have designed the OVC space to be more adaptable than to look like a ghost town at less than lunch numbers, too. All that kitchen equipment and its not used, even the pizza bar is misplaced (on the other side of the area in the video facing aft) and not seemingly used during the dinner hours. In addition, on Edge Class ships the Rooftop Grill lacks sufficient wind screening (and likely heaters) to make it a viable speciality restaurant, and many of the menu items are pub / BBQ joint food that can be mass produced and should be included in the fare (Disney and Carnival do included BBQ and burgers, and Royal has the tex mex that's included (and essentially protein stored in steam trays)). If one has OBC (and many do) the specialty dining can become "included," but the marketing positions OBC as a promotional item so that's how the specialty restaurants are viewed by passengers in terms of access, value, and quality. Ships around 3,000 pax +/- apparently cannot financially support more than a main dining room (chopped into 4 themes with a central kitchen on E-Class), and a very limited number of seats for pay options of varying quality and laboring needs (e.g., Eden seems more difficult to execute than flaming a steak). The room service charge seems silly. The staff are already onboard and available, as are the kitchens and food. The small amount of cost or revenue is a drop in the bucket, but enough to be annoying and seem like nickel and diming. And throwing staff at the MDRs from room service and the OVC reductions won't magically make that food any better or less dependent on banquet style food plated before being served. Also, isn't room service the saving grace for anyone who should stay in their room due to covid or other contagious illness? All of the above is also happening while the MDR menus are apparently placing emphasis on, again, roast turkey and other sliced roasts, and other pre-cooked items.

Celebrity should eliminate gimmick promotions with countdown clocks and false sense of urgency. Celebrity needs to rethink their food offerings and design, and then recalibrate their marketing. Any new cruiser (of which we were in April 2022) and any prior cruiser will likely be disappointed with the current reduced offerings. Right now the only place a basic fare cruiser can potentially get a full dinner is the now greatly reduced MDR. That is not competitive with other cruise lines or everyday life. An additional included food option for dinner other than the MDRs (by whatever name) and the buffet of leftovers (h/t Traveling Gamblers tour of dinner Apex OVC January 2023 @ https://youtu.be/BMGwQTym8NY) seems necessary to compete, especially with the unimaginative and limited MDR menus of mass produced banquet entrees that are on steam tables in the back. Sometimes one would just like a bowl of pasta (not a scoop of a casserole that is no better than a pot luck at home), a burger, simple protein, hot pizza, etc. that's cooked to order. Why is that so difficult for Celebrity to offer? Interestingly, the Rooftop Grill on Edge Class ships is essentially a "grill" menu, or the equivalent of the included bar food or BBQ available on many other cruise lines (including Disney Wish), but the lack of wind screening on Edge and Apex make that space less than desirable especially for a premium payment even if using OBC and the menu doesn't seem to warrant an extra cost when compared to other cruise lines or everyday basic dining. Perhaps for another thread, but Celebrity's marketing, positioning of OBC (as a promotional tool, and not one to empower dining choice), and kitchens and employee load seem to mismatched for offering anything but banquet steam table fare, wherever the venue, even if on china. All the ship tours show huge stores, kitchens and prep areas, OVC has multiple kitchens, and none of it is used effectively. Meanwhile, a flaw of Celebrity, including Edge Class ships, is most of the dining areas suffer from being labeled and decorated for a particular type of food yet rarely achieve the gimmick they are seeking to emulate.

Below is a link to video from Apex with a detailed walk through of the Oceanview Cafe dinner cutbacks from the Traveling Gamblers who were on a B2B (December and January 2023, and know their OVC offerings): https://youtu.be/BMGwQTym8NY This is beyond sad. Several of the items appear as if they could be leftovers. For anyone that ever gives or sees praise for Celebrity pizza, the pizza doesn't even appear as fresh or plentiful as when it is setup at the dedicated electric pizza ovens. Most people live within driving or delivery distance of better looking pizza. Vegetarians: note the butternut squash sharing space and a gloved hand with the turkey. Celebrity must have run out of space to keep the one maybe hot vegetable separate from meat.

My suggestion would be to focus on the total price, and not get overly focused on the promotions (except you should definitely only purchase using a rate with a promotion). Until there's actual price increases, usually as time passes, the total cost less any so called discounts (with the countdown clock to create urgency and FOMO) come in at about the same give or take a bit. The publicly disclosed base prices, and other rates, can be found on various websites that show multiple rates for a room (e.g., icruise). As you probably have seen, prices on the website until you get to the end are usually an average based on room occupancy, but then when you look at the breakout kids seem to be at a lesser amount. Also, for dining and excursions purchased through Celebrity there is usually a lower price for kids.

Don't get your hopes up. Same day made paella will probably be cut even though it's relatively easy to make it in mass quantities and keep warm. Recent reports on CC suggest options and quality are being cut back in favor of casseroles like pasta and bread pudding that may come from mixes or frozen from food service providers. Of course, this will be next to some cute cakes with neon frosting designed to distract.

Not one "Fit Fare" option on the page. Old Country Buffet and the local diner refer to Turkey as signature items, too.

Sounds like the noise issue is easily identified like any physical obstruction. Celebrity should at the least disclose the noise issues on a per room basis like they do obstructed views. The ship is flawed and a lemon. If Celebrity can't disclose the noise issue in advance they should take the rooms offline. There is nothing relaxing or acceptable about advance sales of defective products, including hotel or cruise ship rooms. Someone didn't do their job, cut corners, or worse. Why should anyone book Beyond or Ascent considering the lack of quality control?

OVC is an illusion, and however you want to classify Celebrity doesn't matter. The point is the food in OVC for dinner is trending towards or already relying on what appears to be reheated frozen casseroles and dessert trays, compressesed luncheon deli meat with an over reliance on salamis (that any American can buy at a Kroger from Dietz and Watson or Boars Head, if Celebrity is even buying that grade of product), and overcooked vegetables (maybe from a can) with a backdrop of plastic foods and garnishes to make it appear better than it is. The actual food is really starting to look like what's at rando American truck stops, hospital cafeterias from the 90s, or the Las Vegas Circus Circus buffet (absent carving stations), etc. Nothing gourmet, higher quality, and much not appearing to be prepared for the OVC. It doesn't even compare to the food hall on NCL or the quick serve options on Disney or Carnival (Carnival buffets may be about the same, but seem to have protein options from the video available of recent cruises). Celebrity could easily add options from existing preprepared food used in it's MDR, or simply have some options that are prepared to order. Bottom line: The bread pudding and lasagna may be comfort food, but it's inconsistent with a vacation that is in the thousands of dollars. It's also probably not reflective of how the vast majority of the target market regularly eats even if they eat from grocery store hot and cold bars (e.g., most US grocery stores have available fresh from frozen bread, rotisserie chicken, a salad bar, hot bar, 6 plus pizza options, deli, sushi, and some will have a wine bar and grill (e.g., some Whole Foods)), and modern cafterias have prepared to order options.

When a required vax, plus testing and masks were still a thing, in April 2022, our 4.5 year old sailed Edge for a first big trip post-pandemic. We probably had less than 10 kids on the ship despite the Easter holiday. Our son had a great time. Definitely not for a child that would want an amusement park, splash paid, or even shuffleboard.

A grilled-to-order station for proteins (and vegetarian options) offers options without waste. It would not cost Celebrity anything to have its (limited) Mast Grill line-up plus a few other items available (e.g., a salmon and chicken breast) for a grill station at dinner in OVC. (The risk is the end product may outshine the MDR entrees like a pre-cooked cruise line filet (with brown sauce to keep it moist) or sliced beef wellington, prime rib, etc. that has been sitting under a warming lamp since 4 pm.) Celebrity should no longer be considered a premium cruise line if it is relying on cold cuts, bread and cheese that have no relation to the display items, casserole pasta dishes and frozen dessert trays (bread pudding picture above) that appear they came from Stouffer's or Gordon Food Service. The line-up is like a bad college cafeteria during a snowstorm on a Sunday. It's close or already the case that many U.S. higher end-grocery stores, some airline lounges, SweetGreen's, Panera, and Olive Garden's have the same or better and fresher options. Pre-made large format baked zitis and such are not even sub-premium no matter how shiny the serving tray or friendly staff. Re Mast Grill and gluten free comments above, consider if the buns are toasted on the griddle or in a separate machine. On Edge I recall a separate machine and having to specially request a non-toasted bun, but perhaps it's the bun or its toasting that creates a gluten contamination risk.

Well said! Fully agree with LMaxwell. And, expecting advance payment with variable services and changes will be a turn off for new or younger cruisers, too.

It also should be noted that customer profiles and workflow are done through an electronic portal that the butlers, concierges, hosts, and others have access to and then take directions from, use for keeping notes, and passing info to others with access PLUS the APP that is the customer interface with some of the same services (albeit with limited rights). So, sometimes it's about getting access to someone with the magic phone, iPad, or computer terminal or as simple as DIY on the APP. As a practical matter, the butler is the face of all of that, and is able to physically do things and tasked with keeping track of open items, but not the only one that plays a part of the overall team.

Read somewhere on CC that Butlers have "magic" phones that receive text messages when the seapass card is swiped in certain places. Those phones also connect them to anywhere on the ship and working with concierges they are able to get priority outcomes. Perhaps increasingly important as non-transparent pricing, unclear offerings, and cutbacks will result in greater onboard issues and a failure to meet expectations. Cruises require a cash outlay in advance of receiving any services, and many of the means used to cultivate customers are arcane, e.g., requiring advance payment months in advance, reliance on hype and TAs, creating false notions of scarcity, OBC, constant sales with prices that result in the same amount or more, low cost labor that create a sense of value and service (often real) yet around an illusion, and presumption that the customer can't easily opt-out or find alternatives. Now, we can also add a false narrative on CC that Covid and supply chain issues result in reasons for lower food quality, a need to retain more money and invest less in services. So, for some customers the Butler is one method to make sure expectations are met - and at the prices paid for rooms with Butlers, expectations should be met. Some rooms are 20k or more, which on land would be a number of fancy dinners with actual high-end wine and drinks with homemade ingredients not premix or Monin. Problems with the food, rando upcharges, coffee needs (exacerbated because only major premium line not not provide a coffee machine in each suite room), room noise, seating, lines, a button, etc. bring it up until its resolved.

Agreed. Lobster has been at relatively low prices, and dining in general is the one place where the brand actually connects with the engaged customer that form opinions. On top of that it's unclear that any ship dining room lobster can compare to a chain US steak or seafood restaurant, where one expects to pay, or a local grocery store and home prep. (Celebrity food is also purchased in bulk, ahead of time, sometimes from non US ports, and bought for significantly less than retail or even small restaurants.) Also tacky, charging guests for certain frozen dairy items promoted as gelato stored at the same temp and case as the "included" so called ice cream in the apparently scaled back Oceanview Cafe on E-Class and presumably somewhere on other ships. If Celebrity wants to charge they should be transparent about all charges and menu items pre-purchase, and make the info easy to find, or make cruises refundable bookings with updated info provided before final payment. Handing over dollars to be nickle and dimed seems inconsistent with the experience, and trust is eroding. Between the fake weekly sales, pricing with variable services that change at a whim, and so on, why trust Celebrity or any cruise line with thousands of dollars in advance and without knowing what will be provided in return? Celebrity should clarify the situation. Anyone from Celebrity reading?

Bingo. What are the brand standards and minimum levels of service? Why should it be such a mystery? How does a business expect to sell 10k or more vacations without concrete info about basic offerings and sinking reviews? The X experience and cruise competitors can be as good or better for the same dollar. Btw, 2k or more per day for a Retreat room could easily get one the same or much better experience at small or luxury shoreside resort (certainly on many of the economically depressed Caribbean islands and Mexico) with higher end food options actually available for guests each day and meal time of their full vacation. And one wouldn't need a butler or concierge to troubleshoot problems creates by the hotel. Stealth cost cutting on the ship, and sub-par port experiences in Caribbean itineraries should make anyone question the value of cruising. When one reads about the cuts (without squat said from the Celebrity staff (what exactly do they do all day except "play" games with TAs that populate the YouTube videos of non-revenue cruises or their TA oriented web platform)), reads that xyz beach club with included fajitas at port is a highlight (for $$ per person it should be nice, yet many do not fit with the ship), that the lemon squares are amazing (and it may actually be from a Gordon Food Service or similar kit), the fries are frozen and bought at foreign ports, there's a bar shaker show, there's coloring book time on Eden (like a preschool), and there's sing along to Sweet Caroline by Neil Diamond (sorry not relevant in years), what exactly is X selling that is worth what they are charging? Also much of the common praise on CC and elsewhere, and even the bullet points in marketing by X are for customer service features to solve challenges of their own making (e.g., dining issue, seats at popular shows in limited capacity venues, help with an excursion that got botched, noisey ship construction issues, and so on), and things that on land would not be given a second thought like edible pizza, sandwiches from Eden Cafe (hardly open to constitute a real option), bbq, etc. Moreover, most E class ships are stuck in the 1990s- 2000s color pallet and design. No land based hotel wirh comparable prices and target customers would last without a renovation and freshening. And what what's the allure of Park West and mass produced works with artists that may not even be fully all there like reports of Peter Max?

Reference: 4oz lobster tail is $12.49 at Whole Foods. And, cheaper frozen lobster tail can last about 6 months in a commercial freezer.

We were on Deck 10 closer to midship, with close to equal access to forward and aft elevators. We didn't mind the walks. You may find the deck plan helpful (or have already viewed). The TV's are mounted on the same side of the cabin as the doorway. So you can use that info if you have a preference in how you may sit and face the TV as the ship is moving. The sofa bed setup is on the deckplan key, and probably doesn't matter unless you have a specific need. You'll see the differences in the "look" of the cushions in various videos and still photos.

Thanks to all for this discussion. With regard to pricing, Retreat in a Sky Suite or Celebrity Suite (wall and door around bed - nice for when parents want to stay up late) comes out the same or cheaper than an Oasis class suite. Retreat includes butler/genie equivalent for all rooms, gratuities, deluxe drink packge, highest speed wifi, and enough OBC to cover a trip to speciality dining (kids are not full price) and excursions that have height and age restrictions. Plus Luminae was good to serviceable, with some exception for the well known mushy shrimp cocktail (inexplicable). Best we can tell, it's only the junior suites on Oasis class that come in cheaper, but as we know they have no perks. Our dilemma is we have a 5 year old who would definitely enjoy the Oasis class activities, but parents and he enjoyed the calm and service on the E-Class Edge in Retreat. And, Retreat would be ideal if X had a decent beach port of call and/or one splash area or anything on the resort deck. (2 ping pong tables, a giant connect four, and one cornhole toss are it). Our son isn't old enough for the zip line, wave rider, climbing wall, etc., and great with adults, e.g., no commotion at meals or on sundeck. And we all want a dedicated decent place to eat meals, and lounge outside without competing with the full ship. Only looking at rooms that equate to less than 3k/per day or less for 3 people, as otherwise prices on both X or Royal climb to 20k or more. That seems high for sailing to places like Nassau regardless of the square feet of the room, a genie /butler being able to find us seats in the theater, meals that don't often compare to cheaper land experiences for freshly prepared food, unlimted glasses of wine from mass retail bottles of wine, etc. 20k a week could get a suite or private house on some of the nicest beaches (not Costa Maya), and cover food, in the Bahamas during holiday weeks. One observation re food and not to take away for the praise for Mason Jar (we see it thoughout CC and YouTube), we rather not have an extra charge bbq restaurant be the highlight of dining (especially after paying 1.5-3k a day) to escape CK.

For those recently in a Wonder of the Seas suite, we'd enjoy hearing more about the amenities like coastal kitchen and the sun deck, impact of full occupancy, weather this time of year, and whether the cost to experience was worth it. Have only sailed Edge Class Celebrity Retreat, but variety of activities and Coco Cay is appealing. Thanks in advance.

Looking forward to the comparison with Oasis Class. Safe travels.

Belated thank you for this info. Do agree @NCLneeds to have all ages outdoor pool for Haven.