Body scanners, More likely not to fly to cruise?

[derf5585]

"Other passengers may substitute car travel for air travel. But this too has its consequences, since car travel is much more dangerous than air travel over all. According to the Cornell study, roughly 130 inconvenienced travelers died every three months as a result of additional traffic fatalities brought on by substituting ground transit for air transit. That’s the equivalent of four fully-loaded Boeing 737s crashing each year"

 

Yes, But most accidents happen in the home

[J & G]

Personally, I don't care if someone sees my junk. I would rather be safe than sorry.

 

People need to get over themselves.:D

 

Totally agree.....my junk ain't that interesting!

 

And taking out one's frustrations on people who are just doing their jobs is unproductive and inconsiderate of one's fellow travelers.

 

I'm going to thank the TSA agents for doing an unpleasant job. You know they are getting a lot of grief!

[dkjretired]

I have earlier in the thread but nobody picked up on it.

Do you think we should start a new thread

"Body scans or pat downs before a cruise"

 

Really don't think they will, the threat is different...

[robtulipe]

No one in this thread has said what they will do when the TSA starts this before you board a cruise ship. Think it won't happen?

All I can say about this is that an airplane can be immensely harmed by a small amount of explosive or fire accelerant. If the same amount were used onboard a ship it wouldn't have any where near the same effect.

[derf5585]

Really don't think they will, the threat is different...

 

Remember the Achille Lauro

On October 7, 1985, four men representing the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF) took control of the liner off Egypt as she was sailing from Alexandria to Port Said

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Achille_Lauro

[derf5585]

All I can say about this is that an airplane can be immensely harmed by a small amount of explosive or fire accelerant. If the same amount were used onboard a ship it wouldn't have any where near the same effect.

 

Maybe that is what hapened to the Carnival Splendor

[dkjretired]

Remember the Achille Lauro

On October 7, 1985, four men representing the Palestine Liberation Front (PLF) took control of the liner off Egypt as she was sailing from Alexandria to Port Said

from

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_Achille_Lauro

 

Remember it well, I have actually visited the graves ofthe Klinghoffers in Kenilworth, N.J. Still a different threat for a different reason. As far as cruise ships, the Cole is a better comparison..

[dkjretired]

All I can say about this is that an airplane can be immensely harmed by a small amount of explosive or fire accelerant. If the same amount were used onboard a ship it wouldn't have any where near the same effect.

 

Also, weapons are readily available once you are on a cruise ship, all you have to do is go into the dining room whether you have jeans on or not..

[Lsimon]

So when did the fourth amendment... ...become inoperative? Are we, as air travelers, guilty of probable cause simply because we want to go from point a to point b?...

 

This makes no sense. Extending your logic it would be unconstitutional for them to conduct any searches including metal detectors, carry-on searches or any type of scanning or searches of luggage or people going onto the plane.

 

Extending your logic to the rest of the bill of rights perhaps we should rethink our prohibition against carrying loaded guns and other weapons aboard airplanes. After all doesn't the bill of rights give us the right to bear arms just as it gives us protection against unreasonable searches? Would you feel more comfortable flying if anyone could carry a loaded gun onto an airplane? Besides if they can't search us then it doesn't make a difference if the rules prohibit weapons anyways.

 

Do I feel it is a sad statement that we need to be subjected to these searches? Of course I do! But I'm also a realist and accept the world we live in as it exists today. These searches make me feel more comfortable about flying, not less. They are no big deal.

 

I also agree it is a shame that in a few isolated cases people with medical issues were not treated properly in these searches. But this is a separate issue that can, and should be addressed, and not a reason to terminate the entire security measure.

[brazilgirl]

Very well said , Lsimon!

[robtulipe]

Maybe that is what hapened to the Carnival Splendor

Yeah! Right!:D maybe that fire's cause wasn't a broken connecting rod that went through the side of that massive diesel engine as detailed by Carnival's CEO Gerry Cahill. IMO it would take a fairly large explosive to blow a hole all the way through to the piston area in a marine engine of that size but I'm not an explosive expert. At least Splendor was at sea level, not 30,000 feet, and had lots of lifeboats.

[Sow There]

Lsimon,

 

I understand your point. Most reasonable people accept metal detectors as a fact of life and as being a reasonable search consistent with your concerns about firearms.

 

But wouldn't you agree that, barring other security triggers such as a Yemen stamp in a passport, a cash paid ticket, no baggage, a one way ticket, evasive answers to the usual security questions, etc., requiring an otherwise "normal" traveler to remove protheses, using invasive body scanners and groping of one's private parts constitutes an unreasonable search, without a warrant?

 

A question raised today on a (liberal) talk show during an interview of the head of LAX TSA, "how many security threats have been discovered by the enhanced security procedures since those procedures started?" was answered, "That's a good question. I really don't know."

 

Doesn't the fact that he doesn't have any information about the effectiveness, or lack thereof, of the new procedures tell you something about the ineptness of the entire program?

 

Granted, it could be the local TSA chief is a dufus and is not typical of the entire agency, but it sure doesn't inspire faith and confidence in the process when the boss at one of the nation's largest airports can't tell you anything about the success of the process.

 

Again, I'm all for reasonable searches in these dangerous times, but with the current unreasonable procedures and with the prospect of deep cavity searches being a possible further "enhancement" of the procedure, I go back to my Benjamin Franklin quote,"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

[jimandtoni]

So when did the fourth amendment (The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized) become inoperative? Are we, as air travelers, guilty of probable cause simply because we want to go from point a to point b?

 

 

The PATRIOT Act took it away.

[CaroleLee]

I wish that they could have two queues at the airport; one for those who almost never fly and one for those who have flown often. let the people who know what they are doing get through security quickly by being prepared, and the people who take 10 minutes to get their shoes off and put everything on the belt can go to the other lines.

 

There are 2 lines "experienced flyer" and everyone else @ Orlando etc. The problem is that (at Orlando) the conga lines are intertwined and you really have to look for the experienced -also called business flyer line.

 

Interestingly when we have flown Business Class & 1st class there is a separate line for security after we check in.

Carole

[Sow There]

There are 2 lines "experienced flyer" and everyone else @ Orlando etc. The problem is that (at Orlando) the conga lines are intertwined and you really have to look for the experienced -also called business flyer line.

 

Interestingly when we have flown Business Class & 1st class there is a separate line for security after we check in.

Carole

Same deal at LAX. Two queues, one for First Class/Bus Class/Elite Program members, but the same security checkpoints. In other words it's an organized way for the frequent/higher fare travelers to cut in line.

 

But the security process is exactly the same once the front of the line is reached.

[MiamiSpartan]

I honestly don't know what the big deal is...

It's not like they're projecting the images on a huge Time Square screen or anything...(but wouldn't that be fun...?)

:p

If the cruise lines start scanning, I'm sure the pictures will end up in the Photo gallery that you can buy along with a picture of the ship for just $29.95...!

:D

[derf5585]

Yeah! Right!:D maybe that fire's cause wasn't a broken connecting rod that went through the side of that massive diesel engine as detailed by Carnival's CEO Gerry Cahill. IMO it would take a fairly large explosive to blow a hole all the way through to the piston area in a marine engine of that size but I'm not an explosive expert. At least Splendor was at sea level, not 30,000 feet, and had lots of lifeboats.

 

Coverup. That's what they want you to think.

[cruie4ever]

With due respect back at ya my Dad was a decorated war hero so this has nothing to do with shedding American blood. The facts are facts, we can't just waltz onto a plane anymore. We will never be able to that again. You have to learn to deal with this. It is now a fact of life. Your freedom is not worth me flying on a plane with that people haven't been scanned or groped. The ideal flight would be every body naked and no one moves till we land!!!

 

Again you don't seem to understand the ire of the American public toward TSA ,since they are using these new methods.

 

What if the American consumer decided enough is enough & stops flying ? what would you do ? We know that the airlines would quickly get things changed if it meant a crushing blow to their bottom line

 

We have decided to do this one last flight in April of 2011(we can't cancel ) & then NO MORE flying . We will keep our travel via car to land destinations & cruises that we can drive to . We are fed up with the lack of sensitivity to US citizens & the stupidity against real trroist threats & terroist governments.

[Dunmore2]

I wish that they could have two queues at the airport; one for those who almost never fly and one for those who have flown often. let the people who know what they are doing get through security quickly by being prepared, and the people who take 10 minutes to get their shoes off and put everything on the belt can go to the other lines.

Too true......it is one of our pet peeves too!

Don't mind body scans, pat downs, etc.......whatever it takes to make the skies safe!

[derf5585]

What if the American consumer decided enough is enough & stops flying ? what would you do ? We know that the airlines would quickly get things changed if it meant a crushing blow to their bottom line

 

.

 

Just another bailout

[yayvacation!]

So when did the fourth amendment (The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized) become inoperative? Are we, as air travelers, guilty of probable cause simply because we want to go from point a to point b?

 

 

The PATRIOT Act took it away.

 

The 4th amendment only protects you against an unreasonable search and seizure the two terms are used together (search AND seizure) and takes effect if a police person or other law enforcement grabbed you on the street and probed you then seized you in some manner (handcuffed, blocked against a building, etc.)

 

By purchasing the plane ticket, you have consented to the search, therefore it cannot be unreasonable.

 

I have about 8 books on Criminal Proceedure sitting on the bookshelf behind me if you prefer I cite actual case law.

 

As for me... bring on the scanner, I feel much more comfortable knowing that my fellow passengers don't have anything sketchy on them!

[dkjretired]

 

The 4th amendment only protects you against an unreasonable search and seizure the two terms are used together (search AND seizure) and takes effect if a police person or other law enforcement grabbed you on the street and probed you then seized you in some manner (handcuffed, blocked against a building, etc.)

 

By purchasing the plane ticket, you have consented to the search, therefore it cannot be unreasonable.

 

I have about 8 books on Criminal Proceedure sitting on the bookshelf behind me if you prefer I cite actual case law.

 

As for me... bring on the scanner, I feel much more comfortable knowing that my fellow passengers don't have anything sketchy on them!

 

I have the books also and you are absolutely correct. Also, the right to do the searches was in effect long before the Patriot Act...It is obvious that many of the posters do not understand that there are exceptions to many of the rights in the Constitution. Its the same thing as the old standard, "you can't yell fire in a crowded theater." Just as there are exceptions to the the first amendment, they also apply to the other amendments.

[cruie4ever]

Too true......it is one of our pet peeves too!

Don't mind body scans, pat downs, etc.......whatever it takes to make the skies safe!

 

Please think it out . Regardless of the security ,things that can be used aggressively have already gotten past TSA check points . Check it out on google . There is no way that any security system is 100% fail safe . Once we have implemented a system the terrorist start to figure out ways around it .

 

Imo our government & politicians caused all the problems we are facing today in soooo many ways . If we never stuck our noses where they don't belong I doubt seriously that we would have been attacked in 911 or the other terroist attacks .Be as that may ,we should now aggressively take any terrorist threatening country to its knees via aggressive military means even if it means nuclear missiles (drop leaflets & give the innocent a chance to leave ) . I feel that action would certainly make any other so called terroist nation think many times before messing around with us .

[cruie4ever]

Just another bailout

. "Just Another Bialout won't fly today with a Republican controlled House of Representatives .The whole election was about the over spending by Congress .

[dkjretired]

Just another bailout

 

Maybe then, we could get a meal...