Body scanners, More likely not to fly to cruise?

[pspercy]

Maybe it's just me, but does anyone ever imagine a terrorist going to the airport and getting in the security line during a very busy time, like maybe Thanksgiving/Christmas and detonating a bomb inside the airport?

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-465335/Two-held-blazing-jeep-crashes-British-airport-terror-strike.html Asian in a British context typically means Pakistani, turns out they were Doctors !

 

Also remember the warnings out of Germany last week - group planning "Mumbai" style attacks on malls, trains etc.

[Sun 4-ever]

It is a way of life now. I say if you don't like it, stay home. The people who complain about things are usually the first ones to cause a stink when something does happen and then they say there should have been more security.

 

You can not blame the dentist, doctors or airport screening on you getting cancer. Everyone has cancer cells in their bodies. Just breathing the air today is unhealthy. Get over it and live your life.

 

My Dh had both of his knees replaced a few years back. Everytime we go to the airport and through cruise ship security he is pulled aside. He has the pat down and he doesn't like it but he knows they are only doing their jobs. The only complaint we have is that if I were not with him to grab his wallet, keys and such that he took out of his pockets it is sitting there for anyone to take. I think they need to change how that is done. We have a cruise scheduled for June and will have no problem going through the x-ray machine. If it's gonna keep me safe I am all for it. They are trying to keep us safe.

 

"Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is. The way you deal with it is what makes the difference."

 

 

Also I'm with the people who say you know you have to remove shoes, belts, hats, etc. be ready. They have signs posted that tell you what you have to do and what you need.

[A Sixth?]

Airport security is a bit of a joke.

 

last Xmas when I couldn't have a carry-on from Canada the minute I landed in the USA ( remember the 9/11 terrorists boarded aircraft in the US to hijack their victims.. not a furrin airport) , everyone in Charlotte had carry-on...:eek::confused:

 

No need to worry about domestic flights last underwear... I guess. :cool:

 

BTW... I say scan me frisk me, just don't wimp out like last Xmas.... be smart be about security. If you think you need to check my "Junk" for explosives... do it. Don't let the fanatics on the terror side or the US nut bar side win..... PLEASE

[esther e]

I haven't read this entire thread, but I have a question. If the TSA was truly concerned about keeping people safe, wouldn't they have the security screening right as people come inside the airport instead of letting anyone walk around as long as they don't try to go to the gate areas?

 

Maybe it's just me, but does anyone ever imagine a terrorist going to the airport and getting in the security line during a very busy time, like maybe Thanksgiving/Christmas and detonating a bomb inside the airport? Why would they try to get on a plane anymore?

 

What about all those thousands of people who go to the malls and shops across the country this time of year? What about the thousands of movie theaters across the country that are packed? What about these places?

 

Why would any terrorist try to use a plane again with all the hassle and the TSA there? What makes the airport and planes so special, someone could potentially kill thousands of people with no problems at all at literally hundreds of thousands of places in this country.

 

Will those of you who think this security isn't a problem be willing to be screened before entering any public building like I mentioned above? Should we just get used to the fact that we are going to get groped just to go to the store or watch a movie? If not, what's the point of just doing it at the airport, you can be killed by a terrorist going to the grocery store.

 

 

I have wondered the same thing everytime I go into an airport. I look around at the throngs of people and shake my head. I can't believe "they" haven't thought of this yet.

[jackdiamond]

You folks who approve of the present procedures might be well advised to visit the comments of Isaac Yeffet, former chief of security of Security for El Al Airlines, reportedly the safest airline in the world.

[dkjretired]

You folks who approve of the present procedures might be well advised to visit the comments of Isaac Yeffet, former chief of security of Security for El Al Airlines, reportedly the safest airline in the world.

 

Have brought this up several times, they do not have anywhere near the number of flights per day and the thousands of passengers we handle. Hope you don't complain about the cost and the lines if their procedures were to be implemented here. Can you imagine the lines of cars waiting to get into the airport as they stop every car and check it as they do in Israel. Not to mention the lines as every person is questioned before check in. You are comparing apples to Oranges. Perhaps a hybrid of the Israeli and our system might work.

[02143]

You folks who approve of the present procedures might be well advised to visit the comments of Isaac Yeffet, former chief of security of Security for El Al Airlines, reportedly the safest airline in the world.

 

You might consider sharing with us what he said, it would enable people to respond. Perhaps Yeffet has acknowledged the criticisms people have made about trying to scale up Israeli security to U.S. levels and what that would mean for the flying experience here. Would you know if he has done so?

[GeorgeL]

You might consider sharing with us what he said, it would enable people to respond. Perhaps Yeffet has acknowledged the criticisms people have made about trying to scale up Israeli security to U.S. levels and what that would mean for the flying experience here. Would you know if he has done so?

 

This is what Isaac Yeffet said:

 

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/29/video-former-el-al-security-official-explains-common-sense/

[jimandtoni]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

read the PATRIOT Act....I argued against the PATRIOT Act when it first came out. The result of the PATRIOT Act is the loss of your constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.

[A Sixth?]

Have brought this up several times, they do not have anywhere near the number of flights per day and the thousands of passengers we handle. Hope you don't complain about the cost and the lines if their procedures were to be implemented here. Can you imagine the lines of cars waiting to get into the airport as they stop every car and check it as they do in Israel. Not to mention the lines as every person is questioned before check in. You are comparing apples to Oranges. Perhaps a hybrid of the Israeli and our system might work.

 

 

Using the same logic, airlines with more planes shouldn't have to inspect their aircraft as often because of larger numbers. :rolleyes: Maybe a doctor in a big city should be held to slacker standards as one from a small town.

 

That's fortunately is not how it works.:cool: Keep the nut cases on both sides out of the airport. Both physically and politically.

[Giorgi-one]

And a couple thousand people getting blown up at your local Wal Mart on Black Friday wouldn't put a kibosh on the holiday season and hurt this country economically? Please, give me a break.

 

Nothing like the effect of bringing down an airplane. What kind of a break do you want?

[dkjretired]

Using the same logic, airlines with more planes shouldn't have to inspect their aircraft as often because of larger numbers. :rolleyes: Maybe a doctor in a big city should be held to slacker standards as one from a small town.

 

That's fortunately is not how it works.:cool: Keep the nut cases on both sides out of the airport. Both physically and politically.

 

Sorry, don't understand your first paragraph at all, makes no sense...Never said to lower the standards.. Only point I'm making is they have I believe two airports and are able to do this, we have 600 airports and thousands more flights and millions more passengers...

 

I do believe in keeping nut cases out but how do you find them..

[dkjretired]

This is what Isaac Yeffet said:

 

http://hotair.com/archives/2009/12/29/video-former-el-al-security-official-explains-common-sense/

 

And no mention of how they would implement this in the US with Millions more passengers...

[Despegue]

Without going into detail for obvios reasons, the most important item in the Israeli security programme is the very thorough training of the screeners and interviewers. This is not possible on a huge scale like in the US. without massive cost increases. Full stop.

Profiling is but one characteristic of Israeli security and to implement all of the procedures to the American Civil Aviation is possible but economically not viable. So forget it, it will not happen. What can happen is the use of certain aspects, and this has been already implemented for some years, unfortunately, in a very

amateurish way.

On another note, the Israeli security (trained and effectively operated by Mosad by the way)abroad has a very bad name due to their arrogance (well, they are Israeli, what do you want) and superiority complex. But they do know what they are doing...

 

Now to link with Celebrity: Security onboard is Israeli trained :-)

[iancal]

I don't have much choice, if we want to fly then we need to do this.

 

What concerns me more is whether or not this is really effective (I am not a security expert), whether or not the cargo is inspected properly, and how secure is access to the aircraft by various ground service organizations while the plane is parked the gate. I have been told by more that one person familiar with these issues that control over the latter two is poor at best and this is making a farce out of the passenger screening. I do not know if this was a fair comment or not.

[GeorgeL]

Without going into detail for obvios reasons, the most important item in the Israeli security programme is the very thorough training of the screeners and interviewers. This is not possible on a huge scale like in the US. without massive cost increases. Full stop.

Profiling is but one characteristic of Israeli security and to implement all of the procedures to the American Civil Aviation is possible but economically not viable. So forget it, it will not happen. What can happen is the use of certain aspects, and this has been already implemented for some years, unfortunately, in a very

amateurish way.

On another note, the Israeli security (trained and effectively operated by Mosad by the way)abroad has a very bad name due to their arrogance (well, they are Israeli, what do you want) and superiority complex. But they do know what they are doing...

 

Now to link with Celebrity: Security onboard is Israeli trained :-)

 

Proper training for the screeners/airport security agents should be the first order of business and non-negotiable. Do we really want automatons who simply follow some written guidelines working as our firewall against terror, leaving no room for reason and common sense? What is so impossible about proper training?

I think that perhaps having TSA partner with private security companies would work much better. Private sector usually can get the job done well and for less.

As far as the Israeli security having a superiority complex, I would say that perhaps they have that right since, as you point out, the are the best and "they do know what they are doing".

Arrogance? That is perhaps in the eye of the beholder and a culturally influenced view. Also, Israeli security is NOT in the business of creating a "fuzzy" feeling among people. Their job is very serious business to them, no less than protecting a nation, and they most likely do not care about being politically correct.

[Retty2Go]

You just invalidated your claims against the TSA. Do you think the Israeli army is part private sector? Who do you think was running airport security on 9/11? Are you saying pat downs and body scans are politically correct - only incorrect when applied to "certain" people? And if being made to feel warm and fuzzy isn't an issue, what, exactly, are you complaining about?

 

I think that perhaps having TSA partner with private security companies would work much better. Private sector usually can get the job done well and for less... Also, Israeli security is NOT in the business of creating a "fuzzy" feeling among people. Their job is very serious business to them, no less than protecting a nation, and they most likely do not care about being politically correct.

[Retty2Go]

Those of us who argued against it were shouted down with the refrain, "Freedom isn't Free!" So here we are 10 years later, over 10,000 soldiers dead, thousands more permanently damaged, at war on two fronts, and the patriots are now refusing to sacrifice a pat down.

 

read the PATRIOT Act....I argued against the PATRIOT Act when it first came out. The result of the PATRIOT Act is the loss of your constitutionally guaranteed freedoms.

[GeorgeL]

You just invalidated your claims against the TSA. Do you think the Israeli army is part private sector? Who do you think was running airport security on 9/11? Are you saying pat downs and body scans are politically correct - only incorrect when applied to "certain" people? And if being made to feel warm and fuzzy isn't an issue, what, exactly, are you complaining about?

 

Did you really read my post and the post to which I was responding???

My claim was not against TSA, per se. It was about the necessity of proper training for whoever are the security agents. I suggested that perhaps TSA should partner with a private company to eliminate the cost of training to tax payers since the other poster mentioned that the cost of training would be prohibitive. For a private company who deals exclusively with security, the training part is a job requirement.

As far as my comments regarding Israeli security, where exactly did I claim that they were in the private sector? Again, a thorough reading of my post would be a good idea before responding.

I only menioned them in response to the other poster who claimed they had the reputation of being arrogant and having a superiority complex, even if he agreed that they did get the job done. I commented that the superiority complex might have been earned by their superior performance and that the "arrogance" part might be culturally perceived but even if not, I was sure that Israeli security were not trying to avoid this perception or create "warm fuzzies" among public. They do not succumb to the politically correct virus running rampant around here.

So, where exactly have I invalidated my claims against TSA, even IF I made any such claims?

[Retty2Go]

Yes, I did read both posts. You posted that Israeli airport security (Israeli military) are there to protect the nation, and not make people feel warm and fuzzy. Ditto the TSA. I am wondering what, exactly, do you perceive the TSA is doing so egregiously different. And I would be interested to read you explain what is virally politically correct about a pat down or body scan.

 

Did you really read my post? ... I was sure that Israeli security were not trying to avoid this perception or create "warm fuzzies" among public. They do not succumb to the politically correct virus running rampant around here.

So, where exactly have I invalidated my claims against TSA, even IF I made any such claims?

[GeorgeL]

Those of us who argued against it were shouted down with the refrain, "Freedom isn't Free!" So here we are 10 years later, over 10,000 soldiers dead, thousands more permanently damaged, at war on two fronts, and the patriots are now refusing to sacrifice a pat down.

 

You have it all wrong.

Our brave soldiers are fighting to preserve our freedoms while the pat downs are an erosion of our freedoms.

And according to you, it was fine to oppose the Patriot Act because it eroded our freedoms but now you are all for the super invasive security methods which do in fact erode our freedoms. Do you see some inconsistency here? I certainly do.

[Zubsin]

I've written my senator, congressman, called the Department of Home land Security, signed petitions....I do not want to go through the scanner or the pat down. I think DHS has heard from many people that this new bodyscanner/pat down stepped over the line. We will fly when we have to and I hope we can get some sanity back. The terrorist win when our civil rights and liberties are taken away from us. Donna

[pspercy]

I am wondering what, exactly, do you perceive the TSA is doing so egregiously different.

 

Seems like TSA lacks proper training in this area.

 

Just how much "pat down" training has each had ?

 

Sounds like not much, either that or some just need to transfer to non-public facing duties (or the door).

[Princess Patches]

TSA has clearly crossed the line and it alarms me that so many of the posters here have little or no objection to these new "enhanced" procedures. There were no objections to it at all until about post 33 and no strong objections until post 77.

 

The tide seems to be turning in the last 3-4 pages with more and more strong objections to this absurd policy. I am not sure why, but maybe it is because more information is coming out about what is actually going on at the airport (including the cancer survivor who was forced to remove her prosthetic breast and the bladder cancer survivor with a urostomy who was manhandled during the "enhanced" patdown causing his bag to leak and forcing him to board the plane covered in his own urine. This was after he told TSA several times his bag seal would break if patted).

 

I strongly object and don't plan to fly until the policy is revoked. This is truly insanity. I can't believe anyone believes it is necessary to grope private parts to make the plane safe!!

 

I am fortunate that I have a good job that does not involve any travel. I travel only for pleasure. So I do have a choice. I feel sorry for others who must travel for a living. However, it has become so unpleasurable since 9/11 that I have cut airplane travel down to about twice a year in the past few years. I thought removing shoes was ridiculous and cut traveling way back after that. However, groping one's private parts is criminal and I will not put up with that. It bothers me that so many people don't object to that. If passengers don't voice their displeasure, these procedures will be implemented on cruise ships, trains, and every form of transportation or public place.

 

Maybe we have already raised a generation since 9/11 that has been hardened to being treated without human decency at our airports and these younge people don't know they have the right to object.

[pspercy]

Tell these guys what you think:

http://www.ustravel.org/government-affairs/your-travel-voice