Problem with guest reserving seats in entertainment venues?

[negrilbride]

We are recently off the Oasis, and I appreciate the efforts the cruise line has taken to prevent chair hogs at the pool areas. We saw the pool staff in action numerous times removing items from chairs that had been sitting empty for a while, great job!

 

So why aren't they continuing these efforts into the entertainment venues? It was a huge problem on our sailing for 2 people out of a group of 20 to go very early to a show and block off an ENTIRE ROW of seats for their family.

 

I just don't understand why Royal Caribbean will take a stance and upset guests over one pool chair, but they won't take a stance when a couple guests reserve huge blocks of seating at the entertainment venues.

 

It certainly didn't ruin our trip, but I do think Royal Caribbean could improve the atmosphere for the majority of their guests by not allowing chair hogs in the theaters either.

 

We are sailing the Allure in November, and I do hope they address this issue.

[davenew]

We are recently off the Oasis, and I appreciate the efforts the cruise line has taken to prevent chair hogs at the pool areas. We saw the pool staff in action numerous times removing items from chairs that had been sitting empty for a while, great job!

 

So why aren't they continuing these efforts into the entertainment venues? It was a huge problem on our sailing for 2 people out of a group of 20 to go very early to a show and block off an ENTIRE ROW of seats for their family.

 

I just don't understand why Royal Caribbean will take a stance and upset guests over one pool chair, but they won't take a stance when a couple guests reserve huge blocks of seating at the entertainment venues.

 

It certainly didn't ruin our trip, but I do think Royal Caribbean could improve the atmosphere for the majority of their guests by not allowing chair hogs in the theaters either.

 

We are sailing the Allure in November, and I do hope they address this issue.

 

We saw the same thing happen, only the party that this idiot was saving places for, didn't show. :D

[Bruin Steve]

I guess the difference is in the nature of the use of the seat...

On the pool deck, the use is for no particular time...typically chair hogs plop their stuff down early in the morning, but only use the chair maybe intermittantly later in the day...

In the show room, the show is at a specific time...the people "reserving" seats are only holding them for a specific show at a set time...

I, myself, often save ONE seat--for my wife...I will leave dinner and go to the showroom while she goes back to the cabin for whatever personal reasons and then comes and meets me in the Showroom maybe 5 minutes before curtain...so, of course I am saving one seat...

And, there have been times when I have been asked to save an additional pair of seats for someone else...and, generally, will do this with the caveat that if they are not there by 5 minutes before curtain, we will give them away...

I don't think there is anything all that wrong with this...

Obviously, it appears far more obnoxious when someone is saving 15 or 20 seats for their large family, but, still, in another way, I sort of envy those who can get 15 or 20 family members to cruise with them...and, if I can save 1 or 3 seats for my wife and/or friends, why shouldn't they be able to ensure that their family sits together by saving seats for their whole family? Of course, if everyone isn't there before the curtain, courtesy requires they give the extras away...

 

But, it really is a different situation than the pool deck--where the chair hogs take up the space for an entire day with some undefined period of usage...

[negrilbride]

I, myself, often save ONE seat--for my wife...I will leave dinner and go to the showroom while she goes back to the cabin for whatever personal reasons and then comes and meets me in the Showroom maybe 5 minutes before curtain...so, of course I am saving one seat...

And, there have been times when I have been asked to save an additional pair of seats for someone else...and, generally, will do this with the caveat that if they are not there by 5 minutes before curtain, we will give them away...

I don't think there is anything all that wrong with this...

 

 

I respectfully disagree. Why should 3 people in your party get choice seats without having to sit there and hold it themselves? I don't think it is polite for someone to hold 3 seats so the rest of their party can amble in 5 minutes before curtain and people who arrive 25 minutes early may have less desirable seats because of it.

 

If you are reserving seats in the back row on the side, (the type of seats that people who wander in 5 minutes before curtain would get,) then sure, save away. But if you are rushing in to hold the most desirable seats you can find, I do not think that is considerate to others.

[Bruin Steve]

I respectfully disagree. Why should 3 people in your party get choice seats without having to sit there and hold it themselves? I don't think it is polite for someone to hold 3 seats so the rest of their party can amble in 5 minutes before curtain and people who arrive 25 minutes early may have less desirable seats because of it... if you are rushing in to hold the most desirable seats you can find, I do not think that is considerate to others.

 

What if my wife comes with me, then goes out to use the Ladies' Room? Should I give up her seat?

 

In reality, not every couple or family all walk together to the showroom and then sit there together while they wait for the show...

Generally, we go to the show after dinner...and, trying to put it in polite terms, many people have certain needs..."Honey, you go ahead and save me a seat"...How often do you think THAT is said on the way to a show?...Or, maybe your kids are running around the ship doing their thing but want to meet you and sit with you at the show? Or someone in your party has that gambling addiction and wants to stop by the casino and throw some coins through a slot...

 

Reality is that MOST people do NOT arrive together at the showroom...

 

You maybe notice the very large groups that send two kids an hour early to block off one of the rows front center...and I agree...that can be a bit obnoxious...

 

But, having spent around 30 cruises now being the first in my party to get to the showroom, I know from watching the crowd fill in that MOST couples or groups or families do NOT all arrive at the showroom together and stay in their seats the entire time...

 

If YOU didn't get that prime seat because someone beat you to it and is saving an extra seat or two or three for their spouse or friends or children, that is NOT something that needs to be remedied...it's just part of what happens everywhere...choose the best open seat...or YOU get there earlier next time...

 

But NO cruise line is going to start making people give up seats if there is no body planted in it prior to a show...That would be virtually impossible to enforce...and they could stop selling drinks because no one could dare leave to go to the rest room...

 

And, even though I have seen those large families holding rows of seats, it has NEVER prevented me from getting decent enough seats when I come early enough...they may be saving row two...but I can sit in row 3 or 1...there really isn't that much of a difference...And if by the time I get there all the rows near the front and center are already taken and that family is holding down that one row, I seriously doubt any policy would have made those seats available to me...someone else would have taken those seats...The showrooms on these ships hold a lot of people (On the Allure, it's over 2,200), that one or two big families should not be that big an issue...

[bajathree]

I have no problem sitting down in a row that someone "thinks" they are holding 20 seats in....problem solved:D

[gram2kids]

The solution to this "sit hogging/holding" problem would be to have assigned seating like at any ticket-holding theater on land. First come, first serviced, best seating, from making your pre-cruise reservations prior to sailing. Can anyone explain why this is not done onboard cruise ships? It would certainly eliminate the need to hog/hold seats before a show. Any seats left unoccupied 5-10 minutes before the show began would be given to the people that have not booked in advance. Your thoughts?

[gram2kids]

"Seat Hogging", not "sit hogging"...oops! :rolleyes:

[Puffinater]

I have no problem sitting down in a row that someone "thinks" they are holding 20 seats in....problem solved:D

 

My wife is the same way. Policy says no seat saving so there should be no seat saving. Big difference in a trip to the restroom vs. saving a row of seats.

[Bruin Steve]

The solution to this "sit hogging/holding" problem would be to have assigned seating like at any ticket-holding theater on land. First come, first serviced, best seating, from making your pre-cruise reservations prior to sailing. Can anyone explain why this is not done onboard cruise ships? It would certainly eliminate the need to hog/hold seats before a show. Any seats left unoccupied 5-10 minutes before the show began would be given to the people that have not booked in advance. Your thoughts?

 

Actually, that is probably the eventual and reasonable answer. Royal Caribbean is already part of the way there with the current advance reservation system...the software obviously exists to assign seats because just about every venue in the world does it for threaters, sporting events, concerts, etc.

 

The next step would be the one that might cause the biggest stir: PRIORITY.

 

I am cruising in August on Oceania Marina...and they have a large demand for specialty restaurant reservations--because there is no service charge...So, they have come up with a system where Suite passengers can reserve restaurant slots 90 days in advance, Penthouse cabins 75 days in advance, Concierge Class 60 days in advance and everyone else 45 days in advance...

 

I can picture RCCL doing something similar with show tickets...

 

Perhaps they start with the big musical theater production--since everyone is accustomed to assigned seats for those back home--and they say maybe Suite passengers and Diamond Plus can book tickets and choose seats 90 days out (provided reservation is paid in full)...then Concierge Class and Diamond C&A can book 60 days out...then Balcony cabins and Platinum 45 days out...and everyone else 30 days in advance...you log onto a site at your appropriate level and are presented with options of available seats and you choose one...last in, obviously, gets that limited choice of seats on the side, back, balcony, etc. when you get to the ship, actual printed show tickets are delivered to your cabin...and, yes, any no-shows, seats are opened to stand-by line 5 minutes prior to showtime...

 

You would probably get fewer no-shows as people tend to view assigned seat tickets differently...

 

The people with large parties would either have to sit separately or wait until the person in their party with the lowest priority became eligible...the system would probably have to have a way of letting you input multiple reservation numbers and then present you options of blocks for your required number of seats...

 

It would certainly also alleviate the necessity for anyone to have to show up way early and waste time holding even their own seat...

 

Of course, some folks would be unhappy with this system as well--people with inside cabins who wanted to sit up close and find themselves settling for the balcony or the edge of the theater 30 rows back...

 

You also could not end up sitting next to those new friends you just met on the ship...And your kids would probably end up having to sit with mom and dad...

 

But it does seem like a much more organized and orderly way to do it...

[negrilbride]

I have never been a person to think that because other people are doing something makes it the right way to conduct myself or treat others. If I felt that way I would likely be drowning in debt, stepping on others to get to the top, and rushing cruise ship elevators to get on before letting others get off.

 

After all, there are no rules against it, so it must be the right thing to do.

 

Are rules really necessary to enforce common courtesy?

[Bruin Steve]

Are rules really necessary to enforce common courtesy?

 

Wait...

Weren't you the one who started this thread insisting Royal Caribbean should step in and legislate and enforce this?

 

...I do think Royal Caribbean could improve the atmosphere for the majority of their guests by not allowing chair hogs in the theaters either...We are sailing the Allure in November, and I do hope they address this issue.

[negrilbride]

Wait...

Weren't you the one who started this thread insisting Royal Caribbean should step in and legislate and enforce this?

 

 

That was my response to your argument that there aren't rules against it on any ship or cruise line and lots of other people do it, so you will continue to.

 

I do not think there should HAVE to be rules enforcing common courtesy, and it is beyond my realm of understanding that people believe that if there is not a rule against something, that it is an acceptable behavior.

 

So I do think there needs to be a rule, because without it, there are people who will show no courtesy for others. SHOULD there be any need for a rule regarding common courtesy? Absolutely not. Is there a NEED for such rules? Absolutely.

 

I agree that assigned ticketing would be an effective solution.

[negrilbride]

What if my wife comes with me, then goes out to use the Ladies' Room? Should I give up her seat?

 

 

For goodness sakes... Do you really not see a difference between going to a show, being seated, and excusing yourself for a moment to go to the restroom, and sending one person to a theater an hour in advance while the rest of the party wanders about the ship, hangs out in the cabin, etc?

 

I guess we all see the world in very different ways. *shrug*

[Cruising89143]

I have no problem sitting down in a row that someone "thinks" they are holding 20 seats in....problem solved:D

 

That solves the issue.

 

I don't have a problem with someone saving one other seat but when they start saving ten to twenty seats, yes that is an issue. I still think that RCI should have ushers in the theaters to stop this. This type action seems to get worse with each cruise.

[Bruin Steve]

That was my response to your argument that there aren't rules against it on any ship or cruise line and lots of other people do it, so you will continue to...

 

EXCUSE ME!?!?

Now exactly where did I say THAT?

 

My "argument", as it were, is that saving seats for one's spouse or family was normal behavior and NOT unacceptable or lacking in "common courtesy"...

It is common courtesy to hold a seat for one's spouse or kids...

If I am holding a seat for my wife...and YOU show up late and don't like the chopices of open seats left to you, I shouldn't have to give up my seat so you can have it because you are there and not planning on leaving...

 

And it is NOT the same thing as deck chaiors on the pool deck being reserved all day for some later intermittant use.

[Bruin Steve]

For goodness sakes... Do you really not see a difference between going to a show, being seated, and excusing yourself for a moment to go to the restroom, and sending one person to a theater an hour in advance while the rest of the party wanders about the ship, hangs out in the cabin, etc?

 

I guess we all see the world in very different ways. *shrug*

 

For "goodness sakes"???

Do you understand the general techniques in making an argument? It is an established practice to use extremes to make a point...

I used the extreme of saving ONE seat for ONE small period of time to illustrate the problem with having to draw a line somewhere...

Okay, what if my wife uses the bathroom in our cabin? What if it's not juist one seat but two seats...maybe I have a wife and a small child and my wife is escorting the child to the rest room...or back to the cabin...??

 

Where do you draw the line in what is okay to save and what not?

 

Should crew members continually circle the showroom and question every passenger about every seat they appear to be saving?

 

Seriously...Get there when you need to...find seats that appear to be open and SIT DOWN...

[negrilbride]

For "goodness sakes"???

Do you understand the general techniques in making an argument? It is an established practice to use extremes to make a point...

I used the extreme of saving ONE seat for ONE small period of time to illustrate the problem with having to draw a line somewhere...

Okay, what if my wife uses the bathroom in our cabin? What if it's not juist one seat but two seats...maybe I have a wife and a small child and my wife is escorting the child to the rest room...or back to the cabin...??

 

Where do you draw the line in what is okay to save and what not?

 

Should crew members continually circle the showroom and question every passenger about every seat they appear to be saving?

 

Seriously...Get there when you need to...find seats that appear to be open and SIT DOWN...

 

Thank you for the explanation of how you argue Steve. In academic debate I am accustomed to practical and rational examples as exaggeration leads to polarization.

 

Regarding the impossibility and complexity of a policy and where the line would be drawn regarding this matter, the cruise line has figured out where to draw the line for deck chairs... "What if someone is in the pool for a really long period of time? What if someone had to take a particular pesky dump in the bathroom and is gone 31 minutes? What if someone left their book behind with their towel, what will we do with their personal effects?"

 

They figured it out. They enforce gross abuse of the rules, they aren't at a chair with a stopwatch.

 

With your experience on your 30 cruises I'm sure you are able fairly easily to identify those who are grossly abusing the ability to be seated early and reserve seats, and those who are saving a seat for 5 minutes for their wife as she runs to the restroom.

 

Would you miss a few who were abusing the system by just eyeballing it? Sure. Would it still reduce the problem? Most likely.

 

The cruise line COULD at their discretion prevent people from saving seats for people who are not present at the theater. It is not the highly technical feat that you make it out to be. Does one person saving a seat chap my ass? Not particularly.

 

 

 

They could also implement a policy like many restaurants have where your party must be present in order to be seated. It is not a highly debated, challenged, and impossible to enforce concept. If 6 of a party of 8 are there, the 6 wait outside for the other 2 to show up. If you are all there, you take a seat. If 4 of the 8 are there and you don't think the other 4 are coming, you get a table for 4. If the other 4 show up, they will be seated separately.

 

If all 8 are seated and someone goes to the bathroom, you don't make everyone leave or seat someone else in the seat. That person just goes to the bathroom and comes back to their seat.

 

Of course tables and theater seating are different, but the general concepts could easily apply.

 

Ushers could allow guests to choose the row where they want to sit and they can be directed to the center-most seats of the row in order to aid the seating of guests coming in behind them.

 

And since you are very upset about my tardiness to the shows, we were never at the theater less than 28 minutes before a show, and were usually in a line waiting for the doors to open. It is not an issue of us not ever being able to find any seat that we were happy with personally.

 

It was just my experience that even when we arrived very early and waited for the doors to open, those in the line waiting to get in before us rushed to save the first few rows of the first tier balcony and would not let anyone else in. We found another seat and sat there and watched people who still arrived very early not be able to select the open seats they identified and made their way to because someone 8 seats down was "reserving" them. I will continue to believe that is not proper conduct.

 

You can disagree. That is fine. This is a discussion forum. You can discuss the topic and vehemently disagree. You are not going to beat others into submission to see your side every time, nor will I. With intelligent discussion (and I admit I strayed VERY far from that today; my apologies) sometimes people can see a different side, or collaborate and identify different, and good solutions. (Such as assigned ticketing.)

[link99]

This is and will always be an issue in any open seating venue such as the windjammer or the theater.

 

How many times have you gotten all of your food and then circled the windjammer looking for a table, but you cant get one right away because all the tables have a spouse or a kid sitting there with no food in sight waiting for the other to return so they can leave and get there food.

 

Should the waiter start kicking the people off the table unless they have food in front of them?

 

Same principle for the theater I sit wife goes to bar and gets drink or visa versa, son comes in a little later from roaming the ship or the youth activities. It is the norm and practice, after the first cruise or two you catch on.

 

So yes I do and will continue to hold two extra seats for my family who are at the bar or in the restroom and I dare you or RCCL to prove otherwise.

 

I do not think assigned seating is the answer ether and if they want to take that route they might as well do reservations in the windjammer for a table and a time. You get a table and 30 minutes to eat and get out of the windjammer. After 30 minutes the next party is there and you have to leave. If you want a casual breakfast go to the Main dinning room.

 

This is and will always be a contentious issue, and their is really no clear cut answer. Everyone wants the best seat in the house but 2200 people can't have front row center.

 

The best answer is get to the theater find the seats have a drink and enjoy the show.

[JetsFanCruiser]

I would save a seat for my wife and 2 kids, but not anything bigger unless it is the uindesirable location.

 

However, if I did save seats for just me and my immediate family (4) and someone tried to take them as I was sitting holding them, we would have a very big problem.

[kahliasmom]

I think that it is reasonable to save a seat for one's wife and child that need to return to the cabin to take care of personal business. Perhaps the saving of three additional seats is within reason, for the saving of seats of those within one's own cabin, though some suites do have more than four people in them. Anyway I think that a maximum of saving three seats is reasonable. It is the saving of ten or twenty seats that is unreasonable. There should be more than one person from a group of twenty that can make their way to the theater. Save seats for those in your cabin, I would say immediate family but that number can sometimes be in the tens and twenties. Just my opinion.

[bilyclub]

The problem on Oasis and Allure is that a few people in a group have reservations for a show, ( comedy,headliner, whatever). They go in at least 15 minutes before the show because they have a reservation, they save a bunch of prime seats for the rest of their group who is waiting in the standby line to get in at 10 minutes before the show. This is total bs and happens all the time.

[compman9]

Fascinating thread

 

Of course, chair hogging is wrong

 

Of course, holding a row or portion of a row of seats for anyone is wrong

 

Do you also believe people sitting at tables in the Windjammer is wrong, while one of their party is lining up for food and you are standing with a plate full but not table?

[negrilbride]

 

Do you also believe people sitting at tables in the Windjammer is wrong, while one of their party is lining up for food and you are standing with a plate full but not table?

 

Hmm, I dunno? We only ate in the windjammer one morning for breakfast and it was early and there were no crowding issues.

 

The real question is with so many other options on the Oasis class, why does ANYONE eat there :-P j/k

 

How long does it take to get a plate of buffet food? I can't imagine any longer than a trip to the bathroom, right? I mean, is the whole party there and one is just sitting while everyone else takes 3 minutes to get their food? If so then this doesn't "seem" like a big deal as I imagine it playing out, but I have no practical experience with crowding issues at that venue so I really don't know. I will defer to those who have seen the crowding issues.

 

If people are sending someone to the windjammer prior to their arrival to save a table that would not be allowed on the Negrilbride Cruise Line.

[Puffinater]

Do you also believe people sitting at tables in the Windjammer is wrong, while one of their party is lining up for food and you are standing with a plate full but not table?

 

No, but sitting in an over crowded WJ playing a card game while others are looking for seating is.