New Celebrity Ships- Some info.

[Andy]

Hi Everyone !

 

I guess it is my turn to chime in on this....

 

First, lets not PANIC :) . I have heard endless "rumors" on X Ships, that turned out to be just that...... Rumors !

 

Add me to the list of those who would hate to see Celebrity head towards Open seating, as I truly feel that a big part of Cruising is lost that way. If I want open seating, I can Cruise with Princess.

 

I am going to wait until I see it in print. If & when that happens, I can just add it to the list of changes that I am not happy with. For now, I am not going to worry about it. Ok, now back to the discussion :)

[Danno]

... [and Danno sorry that you were brought up short just for expressing your opinion]...

 

:D ...I'm used to it. You take that chance when you talk about anything more than the colour of the upolstery or who's the CD...the "fluff" posts that don't draw out any opinions. I like "fluff" posts BTW.

 

I think people like me drive management at companies like X up the wall...I'm sure they would much prefer us to just accept every change without question.

 

If these changes do happen it will happen for one reason

 

BIGGER IS CHEAPER!!

[dougnewmanatsea]

For example I will be on Century for her Scandinavian/Russia cruise and we will be in Copenhagen over night.We get in @ 8 pm

What is your sailing date?

 

I'd check your itinerary... We were booked on CENTURY for 1 August and the overnight at Copenhagen was elminated. (We switched to HAL.)

 

Just FYI.

 

I any of this ugly prognostication becomes a reality then my days of cruising are done...

You could try a different cruise line...

 

The French newspaper "Ouest France" mentioned last week that shipyard Chantiers de l'Atlantique had hopes for a new 1600 cabin cruise ship to be ordered in May. This could very well be the Celebrity "Challenger" newbuild.

It could be - but then, I thought RCI would never, ever order another ship from Alstom ;) ? (I always thought that was a slightly silly statement - never say never - but that is what they said...)

 

To me though, 1600 cabins sounds like rather more than what I'd expect to see in a Celebrity newbuild, even if it is 120,000 GT.

 

I wonder who it is that they're hoping to get this order from?

 

Carnival? MSC?

[Danno]

Hi Everyone !

 

I guess it is my turn to chime in on this....

 

First, lets not PANIC :) . I have heard endless "rumors" on X Ships, that turned out to be just that...... Rumors !

 

 

Andy's right...let's look at some silly rumours here of days gone by....no way!!!

 

i) there was actually talk that the CC $35 fee might be done away with.

ii) someone though C&A credit would able to be used on X...now that's just silly!!

iii) there was once a rumour here that X would be bought by RCL...poppycock!!

iv) Horizon and Zenith might be removed from the fleet...blasphemy!!

v) I even heard that X might have some serious problems with the drive system on it's new M class ships...what are the chances.

 

Sorry Andy...don't mean to make a point at your expense...But give credit to some of the folks here, this board is much more than a rumour mill.

[Andy]

Andy's right...let's look at some silly rumours here of days gone by....no way!!!

 

i) there was actually talk that the CC $35 fee might be done away with.

ii) someone though C&A credit would able to be used on X...now that's just silly!!

iii) there was once a rumour here that X would be bought by RCL...poppycock!!

iv) Horizon and Zenith might be removed from the fleet...blasphemy!!

v) I even heard that X might have some serious problems with the drive system on it's new M class ships...what are the chances.

 

Sorry Andy...don't mean to make a point at your expense...But give credit to some of the folks here, this board is much more than a rumour mill.

 

Hi Dan !

 

You misunderstood my post. I am NOT making any less of what people are saying HERE on the boards. I value every post from others.

 

What I am saying.... Is that I have heard COUNTLESS rumors from STAFF on the ship, that turned out to be 100 % False. That was my point. Sorry if I did not make that clear enough.

[judyfssw]

I would like to add that at the CC party on the Constellation, Feb. 12th sailing, the CD said that future Ceebrity ships would have open seating bevause that is what people want. When others in the room disagreed with him, he reiterated that people now want open seating so this was the way that "all" ships were going. Several of us, let him know that we were not in favor of this.

Later in the cruise, he mentioned something about cruise directors' meetings where they learn all about things that are changing. BTW, I did mention this in my posting about our cruise.

Now, having heard that someone else was told this, I would tend to believe that there is some validity tothe statement. :(

[eroller]

What is your sailing date?

 

 

 

It could be - but then, I thought RCI would never, ever order another ship from Alstom ;) ? (I always thought that was a slightly silly statement - never say never - but that is what they said...)

 

 

 

I know .. a very silly statement. If Alstom were out of the picture, RCI's choices certainly become limited. We know RCI will not use Fincantieri in Italy for whatever reason, and I would LOVE to know why. It can't just be because Carnival uses them since Carnival uses every shipyard. Werft in Germany can't build post-Panamax ships, so that pretty much leaves Aker which is busy with FREEDOM and Alstom in France. There is the possibility they are looking into Asia but it's unlikely.

 

The fact that RCI seems unwilling to consider Alstom and Fincantieri to bid on newbuilds certainly seems to put them at a disadvantage compared to Carnival Corp. I would love to know the politics behind their reasoning. It's probably just another case of ego's which is not fair to the stake-holders of the company.

 

Ernie

[Danno]

Hi Dan !

 

You misunderstood my post. I am NOT making any less of what people are saying HERE on the boards. I value every post from others... Sorry if I did not make that clear enough.

 

Sorry Andy...I was just having a bit of fun at your expense :D . That's what hosts are for...right??

[Andy]

Sorry Andy...I was just having a bit of fun at your expense :D . That's what hosts are for...right??

 

Absolutely <smile>

[Richard Stein]

Your description sound like a Grand Class Princess ship with an X on the funnel. I guess if RCCL couldn't buy Princess maybe they plan to turn Celebrity into one.

Let's hope not.

[AFT_LOVER]

as My DH & I had 2 Captains on 2 different ships in 2 different months state the exact ship do out in 2006. Challenger class, after the great ship of the past, that will be exactly as wide as M Class but longer & weight 138K GT.

 

So for folks doing the remorse of NASA, these are not related, Chevy may come out with a Challenger in 2007. Skiers have a challenger race, as do swimmers & it is advetised with folks not freaking out. We morned for those dears as we did the other group over Texas, but no lawsuits from the families over it & the USA goes on. So should you.

 

I personally look forward to Challenger class ships with laundry facilities as I voice my opinion on comment cards & letters. With less luggage weight accepted & I cannot handle 2 30" hardshells, I must go without half a cruise since I have no clothes for it? NOPE! I have Tide & will wash clothes, rinse in shower & they dry in hangers as we sleep.

 

Why an inside cabin on every other floor cannot be a laundry is besides me.

During drydock it should be done with M Class, as I have stated.

[rjg41]

Just to expand, Simon (Current CD on Inifinty) mentioned several times both in the Cruise Critic gathering on board and at the "Life at Sea" talk about the potential of the new ships coming. He indicated that we should hear details in the next few months. Simon did also mention the possibility of an acquisition.

 

As for the source for the dining plan being considered, it came from a person who works with senior management and directly with Michael Roux and is directly involved in the consideration of the new concept. It was clearly said to be the concept being considered so I would put it on a much higher level than "rumor". I was challenged by another staff person on board about the validity of this concept being considered and when I told him/her who told me, I was told I could rely on that.

 

As pointed out earlier, without a major renovation on other ships, the concept, if implemented, would likely be only on the new ships. Traditional dining would still be on the older ships.

 

To clarify on the seating system. As we were told, it will not be dine at any time. As I mentioned earlier, there will be for dining times, 6:30, 7:30, 8:30 and 9:30. To speculate, a passenger would select a seating time and would keep that for the entire cruise. As long as people were kept to there assigned seating time there would always be enough seats at each time, maybe not always in the restaurant of their choice on that night.

 

Time will tell but it's fun to talk about it.

[The Admiral]

I only have two concerns:

 

 

1.) I hope that X is not stupid enough to mmake the mistake of building a ship as big as the voyager class for X and cramming another extra 700+ passengers on board. If they do that, I sell my shares and start cruising Holland or some of X's other competitors. I go on X because the ships are cozier and not as crowded.

 

2.) Will we have to make reservations each night for each restaurant? What if, and this has happenned before in freestyle time cruise ships, there's one very good menu in one restyaurant on evening and the menu in the others is not as appealing??? What do you do when youre told all the seatings are full for a pARTICULAR RESTAURANT??? Seems to me they would be limiting choices not adding. Why not have a small, seating based dining room and 3 alternative restaurants so everyone is happy with the choices?

[dougnewmanatsea]

We know RCI will not use Fincantieri in Italy for whatever reason, and I would LOVE to know why. It can't just be because Carnival uses them since Carnival uses every shipyard.

I've always wondered about this myself. Traditionally RCI built at Aker Finnyards (or rather its forebears) and at Chantiers. Then they expanded to Meyer Werft, but now say they will not use Alstom ever again (amazing considering that this is the yard where seven of the nine RCI ships built before MILLENNIUM came from!). But somehow Fincantieri seems to be a no-fly zone for RCI. I, too, would be fascinated to hear why. I don't see how Carnival's increasingly close relationship with Fincantieri would deter RCI. Star Cruises and Meyer Werft are practically joined at the hip, and yet RCI have no problem building ships at Meyer.

 

Werft in Germany can't build post-Panamax ships

Actually I think they may be able to as the Ems dreding project is complete?

 

At any rate that would seem a moot point as they are now busy with three new NCL ships and the two Sphinx-class ships for AIDA (which interestingly mark the first Carnival order from Meyer Werft, except for the lenghthening and conversion of the previous WESTERDAM).

 

that pretty much leaves Aker which is busy with FREEDOM and Alstom in France.

I do not know if Aker Finnyards Helsinki yard can build post-Panamax ships... I know that their Turku New Shipyard, where all of Aker's post-Panamax ships (VOYAGER-class and COLOR FANTASY) have been built, is pretty much occupied with the FREEDOM-class vessels and the second COLOR FANTASY-class ship, but I think they are still seeking orders for Helsinki.

 

Aker Finnyards Rauma may even be a possibility, I do not know what the largest ship they can build is, but I think they have only one outstanding order. And I think Aker MTW in Germany can handle quite large vessels as well and may have open order slots.

 

There is the possibility they are looking into Asia but it's unlikely.

I do not think anyone in Asia aside from MHI (Mitsubishi) would be able to do it and I believe that MHI are essentially booked solid for years to come with things other than passenger ships. As I recall, it was reported that Carnival actually approached MHI wanting to order follow-ons to DIAMOND and SAPPHIRE PRINCESS (apparently the Carnival/P&O Princess people are positively thrilled with these ships and MHI) and MHI simply couldn't accomodate them!

 

I would love to know the politics behind their reasoning.

With Alstom, it would seem that it probably stems from their extreme dissatisfaction with the MILLENNIUM-class ships. I have no idea about Fincantieri though.

 

I guess if RCCL couldn't buy Princess maybe they plan to turn Celebrity into one.

I think that would be kind of counterproductive as Princess have spent the last decade or so remaking themselves in RCI's image ;) !

 

as My DH & I had 2 Captains on 2 different ships in 2 different months state the exact ship do out in 2006. Challenger class, after the great ship of the past, that will be exactly as wide as M Class but longer & weight 138K GT.

No offense intended, but I simply do not see how this could possibly be out in 2006... And for something to be the same width as an M-class ship and 138,000 GT would require a ridiculously long ship.

 

Sorry to say, but I'll see it when I believe it.

[Bryon]

What people? This is not what I want. Someone should do a poll. Who are they asking? Obviously not me or the group of people I cruise with.

 

Anne Maria

 

Baby boomers who will be retiring in the next decade or so.

 

X is trying to capture the market for a generation with much more personal wealth than their parents and quite different preferences (non-Caribbean/Alaska destinations, more choices in cuisine, more flexibility) .

 

At the risk of being overly general, but only just, three large groups of cruise customers:

 

1) Current retirees of the WWII generation, the major group of cruise customers of the moment. In general, traditional cruisers who will cruise the Carib and Mexican Riviera year round. Often this group prefers to limit travel to the departure port, so tend to buy travel originating in the U.S. and near their homes.

 

2) Baby boomers. Generationally, this group has more personal wealth than their parents and preferes for more diverse travel destinations and activities. These are people that grew up with long-distance and air travel and will fly to foreign ports of departure. Demand less structure and more autonomy (in many aspects of life) than did their parents.

 

3) Current professionals. Time limitted but endowed with economic resources. Willing to travel. Culturally quite different from either their parents or grandparents. Combine their parent's preferences for diversity of cuisine, entertainment and destination with a much greater informality and even more desire for autonomy than their parents.

 

Riddle me this, if you're running a cruise line and trying to make money not just today but also in the future, do you please 1 at the expense of 2 and 3 or do you please 2 (European, Asian and other "exotic" destinations, more choice of cuisine and dining times) and throw in some things that might attract 3 (Bar at the Edge of Whatever, more lounge spaces and less dance spaces, less attention to dress code)?

[canderson]

[quote name='eroller']The French newspaper "Ouest France" mentioned last week that shipyard Chantiers de l'Atlantique had hopes for a new 1600 cabin cruise ship to be ordered in May. This could very well be the Celebrity "Challenger" newbuild.
[/QUOTE]I'm sure they have hopes, but after the fiasco with the M-Class propulsion systems, Celebrity's then CEO made it pretty clear that they weren't looking forward to doing business with Chantiers again -- ever. Maybe they'll kiss and make up, but after the lawsuits that followed, I doubt it.

[canderson]

[quote name='MACOP']as My DH & I had 2 Captains on 2 different ships in 2 different months state the exact ship do out in 2006. [/QUOTE]Hence the reason to take anything the staff is saying with a grain of salt. They're still shopping incomplete sets of drawings around the boatyards. 2006? Maybe 2007 if they get hustling and pick a builder this week.

[Shirley and Les]

[quote name='rjg41']Just got off Infinity. Here's what I was told by a very reliable source.....
Don't shoot the messenger... [/QUOTE]
OK, I just called Celebrity to make reservations on their new ship.
Guess What??? They didn't know what I was talking about.
When the messenger provides a rumor and nothing more than a rumor, why shouldn't they be shot? Do you remember the old "loose lips sink ships"?
I would be absolutely shocked if any shipboard employee of Celebrity has any 'aye/nay' vote on anything outside the operation of the ship. Corporate decisions are made by the landlubbers who commute to their job each day. Rumors might be passed on to the shipboard employees but the people meeting with the customers are not part of the decision making. Running a cruise line is no different than any other CEO job in the country. Make money for the share holders. The number of restaurants, seating times, etc. etc. etc. isn't very importantant.

[dougnewmanatsea]

[quote name='Shirley and Les']Running a cruise line is no different than any other CEO job in the country. Make money for the share holders. The number of restaurants, seating times, etc. etc. etc. isn't very importantant.[/QUOTE]
From what I've heard, some cruise line CEOs really [i]are[/i] pretty involved in this sort of thing. I am told that one major cruise line's CEO personally approves even the smallest details of his ships, down to the upholstery in the lounges!

That said, I am always very skeptical of what I or anyone else is told by shipboard staff.

[Hilary]

I just wish RCI would keep Celebrity as their more upscale, traditional line, with ships the size of the M class and leave the mega ships in the RCCL line. IMO there is room for both.

[rjg41]

[quote name='Shirley and Les']OK, I just called Celebrity to make reservations on their new ship.
Guess What??? They didn't know what I was talking about.
When the messenger provides a rumor and nothing more than a rumor, why shouldn't they be shot? Do you remember the old "loose lips sink ships"?
I would be absolutely shocked if any shipboard employee of Celebrity has any 'aye/nay' vote on anything outside the operation of the ship. Corporate decisions are made by the landlubbers who commute to their job each day. Rumors might be passed on to the shipboard employees but the people meeting with the customers are not part of the decision making. Running a cruise line is no different than any other CEO job in the country. Make money for the share holders. The number of restaurants, seating times, etc. etc. etc. isn't very importantant.[/QUOTE]

You are a little premature...........well more than a little. Decision to build new ships is still in the consideration mode. The is not a rumor and as posted above by another above, was ANNOUNCED by COO and President of RCL, Jack Williams. Further, the Simon Weir, current CD on Infinity and one of Celebrity's top CD's if not #1 CD, PUBLICALLY announced several times the consideration of building new ships on Infinity on its' South American cruise from Valpariso to Fort Lauderdale, Feb. 27-Mar. 13, 2005.

Secondly, any CEO who does not listen to his senior line people is doomed to disaster. If you would suggest that Michael Roux is not participating in the decision making for food service on any new ships being considered you are gravely mistaken and Mr. Roux is surely consulting his people. The person who offered the information was a SENIOR person on the ship and not just some employee.

As to you last point about restaurants, seating times, etc. isn't important, I would suggest you do a search of these boards and note how often this topic is discussed.

Well, stay tuned and we'll see.

[rcicruiser]

Until they actually come out and say that they are building new ships and are doing what the OP said I would not worry about it.

[eroller]

[quote name='Host Doug']From what I've heard, some cruise line CEOs really [i]are[/i] pretty involved in this sort of thing. I am told that one major cruise line's CEO personally approves even the smallest details of his ships, down to the upholstery in the lounges!

That said, I am always very skeptical of what I or anyone else is told by shipboard staff.[/QUOTE]


Richard Fain of Royal Caribbean is very involved in both Celebrity and RCI newbuilds. A "steering committee" is formed and every aspect of the new ship is discussed. Designers are brought in and every detail has to be approved down to the fabric on the chairs. Fain was almost fanatical with the details on the Voyager Class, wanting everything just right. His attention to detail paid off as anyone can attest who has sailed a Voyager Class ship.

Mickey Arison of Carnival Corp. also has final say regarding all the newbuilds from each brand. He is not as hands-on with say the Carnival Cruise Lines ships, as he pretty much gives Joe Farcus carte blanche as he is a trusted Carnival designer. Arison did take a more active role in QM2 as it was such a high profile ship.

Ernie

[benjamins]

[quote name='eroller']Richard Fain of Royal Caribbean is very involved in both Celebrity and RCI newbuilds. A "steering committee" is formed and every aspect of the new ship is discussed. Designers are brought in and every detail has to be approved down to the fabric on the chairs. Fain was almost fanatical with the details on the Voyager Class, wanting everything just right. His attention to detail paid off as anyone can attest who has sailed a Voyager Class ship.
[/QUOTE]

Ernie, I'll give him tons of respect for the Voyager ships. But the Millennium ships aren't Celebrity's most creative. I think Fain understands his line, but the acquired line he misses. He misses that Celebrity has many personalities, and all of the Millennium ships feel Century like, missing the casual chic of Galaxy and the retro-modern of Mercury. There's too much of the same furnishings used. There's too many issues that I've brought up too many times. Fain needs to look at the Century ships and see the variety and flow and feel of them if he is to be so involved in the design because the Millennium ships miss a certain Celebrity creativity and ambiance. They did not all need to be so formal.

[eroller]

[quote name='benjamins']Ernie, I'll give him tons of respect for the Voyager ships. But the Millennium ships aren't Celebrity's most creative. I think Fain understands his line, but the acquired line he misses. He misses that Celebrity has many personalities, and all of the Millennium ships feel Century like, missing the casual chic of Galaxy and the retro-modern of Mercury. [/QUOTE]


Ben,
I know you are not a fan of the M-Class ships but I love them. They are spacious and I think beautifully designed and furnished. The one area I would change is all that wasted space by Michael's Club. That was a bit odd. I love the cabins and the overall feel of the ships.

I do admit I would have preferred to see more decor differences between the 4 M-Class ships. Like you, I prefer different decor as is the case with CENTURY, MERCURY, and GALAXY. I think it's much nicer when each ship has it's own personality. At least each of the M-Class ships has *slight* decor differences and the specialty restaurants are different. Cabin decor is slightly different as well. You *can* actually tell them apart when looking at interior pictures. It's not half as bad as the generic Princess ships which are identical right down to the carpet patterns and drapes. If you were placed blindfolded on any Princess ship you would certainly know you were on Princess but you would be hard pressed to tell which ship it is. That type of generic decor is not for me.

Ernie