New Celebrity Ships- Some info.

[rjg41]

Just got off Infinity. Here's what I was told by a very reliable source. I do no wish to name the person or the position because it is likely he/she was not supposed to be telling me and I do not want to get anyone in trouble.

 

The current "concept" is that the ships will be about 120,000 tons and they will be 100% "open seating" dining. The dining "concept" is 5 restaurants, each of a different cuisine; French, Greek, Italian, etc. (sounds like NCL) There will be four dining times; 6:30, 7:30, 8:30 and 9:30. Just as the current system each table gets used twice an evening. You will be able to choose any restaurant any night as you wish. I did not probe into the details of how the seating system would work nor how that would work with the show times. This is what they are considering because, "This is what the people want."

 

Don't shoot the messenger. Personally, I am a traditional dining fan.

[superjerryw]

The "M" class ships are 90,000 tons and are as long and as wide as a ship can be and still fit through the Panama Canal. The proposed design at 120,000 tons would seem to be something approaching RCCL's Voyager class. It would be interesting to see where such ships would be deployed as they clearly could not go back and forth between the east west coast. Then again, Celebrity could offer some itineraries where you sail around South America and you could either book the entire trip or just a segment.

[Hilary]

Just remember to take what you hear on a ship with a grain of salt. They often know less than we do and are the last to hear what is really happening.

[alpal1993]

On a traditional 7 night cruise where you pull out of port at 4pm the formal dinning works well,and I really enjoy it.But with some of the other itineraries where the ship is in port overnight I think I would enjoy the varied times.For example I will be on Century for her Scandinavian/Russia cruise and we will be in Copenhagen over night.We get in @ 8 pm I would love to eat early and be ready to leave for Tivoli Gardens when we dock.

[Kathy & George]

Please don't let this be true! We love assigned seating in the dining room. We would not be happy at all if this is the direction that Celebrity is planning.

[benjamins]

 

The current "concept" is that the ships will be about 120,000 tons and they will be 100% "open seating" dining. The dining "concept" is 5 restaurants, each of a different cuisine; French, Greek, Italian, etc. (sounds like NCL) There will be four dining times; 6:30, 7:30, 8:30 and 9:30. Just as the current system each table gets used twice an evening. You will be able to choose any restaurant any night as you wish. I did not probe into the details of how the seating system would work nor how that would work with the show times. This is what they are considering because, "This is what the people want."

 

 

Hope this isn't anything close to accurate. I'll agree that plenty people want multiple restaurants and open seating. And here's where I'll make the bold statement that marketers have way too much power. There's an overall mass cruise market and there's Celebrity's subset. Celebrity's subset used to represent a choice, albeit probably a smaller choice, of people wanting Celebrity's traditional dining, the rapport with their wait staff and tablemates and not having to choose where to dine with the specialty restaurant being an option. 5 restaurants with open seating sounds like Princess or NCL and that's a big way of making Celebrity something else and not Celebrity anymore. You could put an X on a funnel and have Greek captains but the content of the ship makes it Celebrity, not the labels.

 

Another reason why I say Celebrity already has too many ships and don't need anymore. If you are altering your product to do "what people want" and these people aren't the type that normally *choose* your product, you then have too big a product.

[greeneg]

Certainly will be interesting when all of those "starving"people decide that they all want to eat at the same place at the same time.

 

Gonna be like sloppin' hawgs........

 

The "Freestyle Cruising" thing is one of the reasons that we avoid NCL; if I want to go really informal and freestyle, I go Windjammer......

[jsea]

Thanks for the information, rjg41

 

As an aside: Why are there about four separate, new threads all about new tonnage?

 

Respectfully, can we please limit our discussion to the same threads so that our conversations aren't disjointed and so that members don't have to follow various threads all about the same thing?

 

Thanks!

[CruisingChick]

The current "concept" is that the ships will be about 120,000 tons and they will be 100% "open seating" dining. The dining "concept" is 5 restaurants, each of a different cuisine; French, Greek, Italian, etc. (sounds like NCL) There will be four dining times; 6:30, 7:30, 8:30 and 9:30. Just as the current system each table gets used twice an evening. You will be able to choose any restaurant any night as you wish. I did not probe into the details of how the seating system would work nor how that would work with the show times. This is what they are considering because, "This is what the people want."

 

What people? This is not what I want. Someone should do a poll. Who are they asking? Obviously not me or the group of people I cruise with.

 

This is very, very sad news. The reason we cruise Celebrity is because we LOVE the traditional dining with two seatings. As for bigger ships, the M Class is as big as I would like to travel on. This has really made me depressed.

 

Anne Maria

[Tatka]

I don't understand why some posters get so upset. Nobody said Celebrity will change dining settings or size ;) of current X ships...so if you like traditional dining or under 91 K tonage just keep sailing them.

[Danno]

I any of this ugly prognostication becomes a reality then my days of cruising are done...I love to cruise, this is simply a big, horrible, floating resort.

 

Regardless of the complete accuracy of this rumour...Carnival and RCL have all but ruined the cruise "experience"...I am grateful that I was there when cruising was "special".

[eroller]

The French newspaper "Ouest France" mentioned last week that shipyard Chantiers de l'Atlantique had hopes for a new 1600 cabin cruise ship to be ordered in May. This could very well be the Celebrity "Challenger" newbuild.

At 120,000 gt and 3200 passengers, that would put the space ratio at 37.5, somewhat lower than the GALAXY and M-Class ships.

 

GALAXY = 44.12

M-Class = 44.78

 

In contrast the new FREEDOM OF THE SEAS has projected dimensions of 158,000 gt with 3600 passengers giving her a very respectable space ratio of 43.9

 

It would be hard to believe that Celebrity would have a lower space ratio than Royal Caribbean, but anything is possible.

 

Ernie

[eroller]

 

Regardless of the complete accuracy of this rumour...Carnival and RCL have all but ruined the cruise "experience"...I am grateful that I was there when cruising was "special".

 

 

Try MSC Cruises. I just sailed on the new MSC OPERA in January. It was very reminiscent of the way cruising used to be. Very civilized. No announcements, a spacious and medium sized ship, no nickle and diming, buffet every night, and great food and service. And the best part, MSC is NOT owned by Carnival or Royal Caribbean!!

 

Ernie

[CruisingChick]

I don't understand why some posters get so upset. Nobody said Celebrity will change dining settings or size ;) of current X ships...so if you like traditional dining or under 91 K tonage just keep sailing them.

 

The thing is as they get newer ships they will phase the older ones out. We already know Horizon is going and then Zenith will probably after that. Also, will the same ships do the same itineraries? I think they should have built more M Class ships before they went bigger.

 

Anne Maria

[Tatka]

I any of this ugly prognostication becomes a reality then my days of cruising are done...I love to cruise, this is simply a big, horrible, floating resort.

 

Regardless of the complete accuracy of this rumour...Carnival and RCL have all but ruined the cruise "experience"...I am grateful that I was there when cruising was "special".

 

Different people prefer different experiences... I love traditional dining, but still can't convince my 50+ years old parents to try cruise as they can't imagine spending 2 hours eating.;) They are actually looking at NCL because of free style cruising. If Celebrity can maintain high quality of service and offer free style dining I am all for that. (kind of like quality of service at X speciality restaurants) :)

[Desertbelle]

I any of this ugly prognostication becomes a reality then my days of cruising are done...I love to cruise, this is simply a big, horrible, floating resort.

 

I have only been on the Celebrity boards for about 9 months or so and I think I have seen you threaten to quit cruising on at least 2 occasions. The world isn't going to stop spinning because you don't like the direction it's going. Change is not always a bad thing, but being closed minded and opinionated is.

 

I have cruised on NCL. Though I wasn't overly impressed with them, the one thing they have done right is Free-style dining. They have built ships around the concept and it works beautifully. Princess on the other hand is making a huge mess of Personal Choice dining. That's because they aren't building ships with that concept in mind....they are trying to make their ships "fit" the idea and they don't.

 

Personally, we are traditional dining type people. We enjoy a nice, leisurely dinner with good conversation and good food. I would be sad to see that way of cruising go, but I don't think it will come to that. What I think will happen is that there will be more choices available, leaving those of us who love cruising the freedom to choose a product we want. I see nothing wrong with Celebrity trying out new ideas, and building new ships.

 

Chicken Little.....the sky isn't falling! :)

[Danno]

Change is not always a bad thing, but being closed minded and opinionated is.

 

 

I guess that's the nice this about this board...I have an opinion about the future of cruising and my place in it...you have an opinion about ME!! I don't see how your dislike of me forwards this discussion, but I guess you have your reasons.

[cruiseyguy]

FYI-"Open seating" or "free-style" dining is not just a low-end concept; most of the luxury cruiselines also offer it as a selling point-"dine with whom and whenever you please" (Crystal is the sole exception and receives many complaints as a result). The luxury lines also manage to maintain culinary excellence and a civilized ambience and I am confident Celebrity would too. After several great cruuises on Celebrity I've reached the point where I would like some dining flexibilty without having to resort to the "casual dining" venue, pizza or room service.

[jsea]

FYI-"Open seating" or "free-style" dining is not just a low-end concept; most of the luxury cruiselines also offer it as a selling point-"dine with whom and whenever you please" (Crystal is the sole exception and receives many complaints as a result). The luxury lines also manage to maintain culinary excellence and a civilized ambience and I am confident Celebrity would too. After several great cruuises on Celebrity I've reached the point where I would like some dining flexibilty without having to resort to the "casual dining" venue, pizza or room service.

I agree with you on all points. The only difference between what Celebrity will offer (if this speculation proves correct) and what the luxury lines offer is timing. Even though this speculation talks of dining with whomever, it's not exactly whenever if there are four set times. But hey, we are only getting a 'taste' of luxury with X, and I understand that there are logistical issues with larger ships and more passengers.

[benjamins]

I have only been on the Celebrity boards for about 9 months or so and I think I have seen you threaten to quit cruising on at least 2 occasions. The world isn't going to stop spinning because you don't like the direction it's going. Change is not always a bad thing, but being closed minded and opinionated is.

 

I have cruised on NCL. Though I wasn't overly impressed with them, the one thing they have done right is Free-style dining. They have built ships around the concept and it works beautifully. Princess on the other hand is making a huge mess of Personal Choice dining. That's because they aren't building ships with that concept in mind....they are trying to make their ships "fit" the idea and they don't.

 

Personally, we are traditional dining type people. We enjoy a nice, leisurely dinner with good conversation and good food. I would be sad to see that way of cruising go, but I don't think it will come to that. What I think will happen is that there will be more choices available, leaving those of us who love cruising the freedom to choose a product we want. I see nothing wrong with Celebrity trying out new ideas, and building new ships.

 

Chicken Little.....the sky isn't falling! :)

 

I think you are frankly playing into the beancounter mentality of "the world is changing and we have to" mantra. I applaud Danno for saying that real choice may be a line that features less choice. Celebrity did try out new ideas, when they built the Century class ships, in the mid 1990s, and many of them worked. Now, Celebrity, to expand its customer base, is playing let's do our version of follow the trends. New ships are series, so once you've seen the first one, you've seen the next 3 or 4 in some version. Celebrity managed to avoid that with the Century ships, most sister ships of most other lines give you the theme, the first ship, with slight variations, same furnishings and placments and layouts, different color schemes, on the next 3 or 4. New ships are no big deal and get old fast, especially when so many are introduced in such a short amount of time. Witness, the last "new" Celebrity ship is in 2002 and people already want new ones in 2004. You want new, in this industry it won't be in the form of ships, but in the form of ideas and implementations. And the cruise industry isn't giving us new ideas, just follow-the-leader trends from line to line. Some of us see this quite clearly.

 

Danno doesn't want to quit cruising. It is a passion he has and all he has been saying is that Celebrity represented something he desired, and they are going in a direction that is simply not what some of us choose Celebrity for. I don't hear him threatening anything, just stating what is an important voice that I hope many others that feel this way state and let the beancounters hear. The choices are already out there for multiple dining, open-seating cruising in the form of NCL, Princess, Oceania. And just because these lines do it, doesn't mean that's the way the world is going or should go. It is about real choice, not choosing a compromised, common denominator, all-in-one product and using that part of the product that appeals to you while trying to ignore the rest of it.

[Ericknow32]

i will hold off judgment until i see things on paper. this frenzie over speculation is kinda pe-mature.

[cechase]

All this discussion concerning an "alleged" new and larger Celebrity vessel, seems to be all about dining choices.

 

From our perspective, and it is just our opinion [and Danno sorry that you were brought up short just for expressing your opinion] we would most likely not want to cruise on a vessel with 3,200 pax. We are entirely comfortable on the C class ships because they seem to be not too large, and not too small. On each cruise, we have been able to make friends and get to know a lot of passengers - and have lots of folks to say good morning to, etc. Also, at our age, when one of us forgets something, the walk to our cabin is shorter.

 

We just don't think bigger is better - so why not some new C class vessels?

[Sky Sweet]

I agree with those who think that it would be a mistake for Celebrity to try to expand its passenger base by modifying its product so they will appeal to a larger percentage of the general population. If that happens they will probably lose a substantial portion of their existing client base. In my opinion, Celebrity should decide what segment of the market they really want and use that as a criteria. If they try to be all things to all people they will probably appeal to no one except for people who make decisions based on price alone.

[WeBeCruisin']

I'm deciding to be optimistic here. Maybe it will create the best of both worlds. The 120,000-ton ships with open dining and alternative restaurants will be the perfect place for all the people who grouse about formal nights and informal nights and outstanding specialty restaurants. Think how nice our cruises on the remaining "old-style" Celebrity ships (including M-Class) will be with all these complainers and "it's my vacation, I can do what I want" people gone. The "alternate" casual ships may also enable Celebrity to better enforce their guidelines for dress codes, chair-hogging, etc. on the "traditional" X ships.

 

I suspect that the new larger ships will be limited to 7-day Caribbean trips, much like the RCI "Freedom" series is shaping up to be. If true, this will free the rest of the X-ships to seek out new and more exotic itineraries, while offering the same service and amenities we already love. I see the Summit's new Australia and Asia itineraries as being another step in this direction, as already are the Celebrity South American itineraries.

 

Rather than restricting our choices, this new scheme of things may actually broaden our options, and allow us to even better tailor the Celebrity ship we choose to our own specifications.

 

Pollyanna Allen

[benjamins]

FYI-"Open seating" or "free-style" dining is not just a low-end concept; most of the luxury cruiselines also offer it as a selling point-"dine with whom and whenever you please" (Crystal is the sole exception and receives many complaints as a result). The luxury lines also manage to maintain culinary excellence and a civilized ambience and I am confident Celebrity would too. After several great cruuises on Celebrity I've reached the point where I would like some dining flexibilty without having to resort to the "casual dining" venue, pizza or room service.

 

What makes you confident Celebrity can maintain culinary excellence when they are not doing it now? And what about dress codes? I would say to you if you want dining flexibility, you may not get it with this line, as this isn't the point of this particular line.

 

Silverseas and some Radisson ships operate ships with few passengers, only a few hundred. Crystal is a more traditional line with midsized ships, around 50,000 to 60,000 tons. I like Radisson's Italian restaurant where there is not only cuisine, but much more, including people singing. This happens in restaurants in Italy, Greece, Portugal, Spain. I'd love that in Celebrity. But one restaurant for this, not 4.

 

The expanded times may be welcome. Neither open or assigned seating is downscale or upscale. It's about appraoach. Open vs. assigned seating is the debate and amount of restaurants on a ship is the debate. Should Celebrity go away from French-inspired to ethnic cuisine (they are doing a very so-so job in the Ethnic buffet area)? And what should be the content of the ships? Lots of restaurants take up lots of space on a ship and they aren't multipurpose areas. On the larger Radisson ships and even the smallish ones there's one restaurant that changes from Greek to Spanish to something else with each day. But there's not a separate dining room for each. My strong dislike for the Millennium ship is that there aren't enough lounges, places for people to get together, sing, dance, mingle. That's the element I find missing on those ships that the earlier ships had. Seeing how Celebrity used the space for the Millennium ships, the 120,000 tons would be gone with the 5 restaurants and the ship would be more like a choice of restaurants than a ship with mingling spots unless they change their approach dramatically. That's not Celebrity, that's NCL or Star.

 

Celebrity is OK with their large restaurant and specialty choice. My problem with the specialty restaurant is that its menu is limited. So, perhaps expand it. But, in the end, you can't be all things to all people. When people want what NCL offers, sail NCL. When you want what HAL offers, sail HAL. My problem is the cruise industry is trying to meld everything together and be all things to everyone with pretty much versions and degrees of the same things. That's bound to have you lose those that wanted your identity in your ships.

 

I think what Celebrity should be is a traditional version of Oceania. Small amount of ships, well-defined product, part traditional and part innovative. RCi bought them, so that's out of the window. I just hope the wonderful Century ships go to a company that is what I describe when they get too "old" for mainstream Celebrity.