What has PCH changed? Some answers.

[lkakers]

I booked the Dec. 4th. cruise Ft.Laud.-Ft.Laud. ( now sold out) due to a bargain price and to use up a large credit from Regent. Today I have received the new 2012 brochure. Heavy in weight and overpriced. After 7 Mariners, 7 Voyagers and a Navigator I am sailing away from Regent.

 

The open bar was a 'marketing tool' much appreciated by cruisers who constantly pressed for it. Me for sure !

 

The next tool was 'free air' which was useful to those who could not get a better deal themselves either with miles or expertise. BUT A DECENT ALLOWANCE WAS GIVEN for non users.

 

Next tool - 'free excursions' BUT NO ALLOWANCE for people who like to make their own plans or choose stay on board or walk about town.

This seems to be unpopular, and is beamed at new cruisers or new 'Regents." The experienced travellers have very little need.

 

Last tool - 'free hotels.' We have received an allowance of $300 p.p.

With hotels in Ft.Lauderdale averaging $250/night, $600 is a bonus !!

This won't last !!

 

Finally, our friends in Spain have booked the recent Seabourne ship from Malaga to Ft. lauderdale on Dec. 6th. for 12 nights, at 1200 pounds sterling p.p. ( about US$2000 p.p.) I compared this with the new brochure and a similar Regent is about 50% more !!

And I booked then into a 1st.class hotel on Las Olas Blvd. at $230 per night.

So for 1012 we will look at Oceania, Azamara, Seabourne and Crystal if they have open dining.

 

Enough of 'freebies' in name only.

 

I am one who has to wait for the exceptional Regent deals in order to sail her ships -- I'm currently booked on the 12/4 Mariner southern Caribbean cruise that's now booked to bursting due to its fantastic price. It's the only way I can afford (and just barely at that) to sail this line; apparently I'm the riff-raff some other posters are hoping to keep off Regent's ships with their calls to not include further amenities into the "all-inclusive" product.

 

I just have to say I'm a fan of the included shore excursions (as well as the included tips, liquor, airfare, hotel stays, altertnative dining venues, etc.). It combines to make my currently-booked sailing a truly fantastic deal.

 

As an example: my other idea for a cruise this year would be to do one of Windstar (yes, I'm the type of riff-raff to enjoy Windstar, so that does give you an idea of my standards) Mediterranean itineraries; and when I did a cost comparison factoring all the stuff that Regent includes and Windstar does not, Regent (Cat D) came in at $359/per person/per day; my Windstar estimate came in at ~$600/per person/per day. [For Windstar, remember I'm including gratuities, drinks, transfers, coach airfare to Europe, and I'm not pre-supposing any OBC or other credits I'm likely to get, including alumni or any other discount, so it isn't a true apples-to-apples.]

 

I guess I'll see if I'm wrong after the cruise happens, but I'm not bothered by the idea that the excursions won't be good -- I have to say, that every non-private tour I've been on (whether part of a cruise or not) has its disappointments, mainly because you always have to wait for someone else who has different priorities from you (I want to learn about history/culture/language and I typically don't care one whit for the shopping, but others have different goals, and both of us must compromise time to the other).

 

In any case, the excursions being included is a huge boost to me -- DH and I would be likely to spend $400-$1000 apiece on ship's excursions, so this represents a significant "discount" to us. And as a benefit to Regent, despite the fact that our budget is actually a bit too small for their true target, we're the type of customer they are trying to attract: relatively young (DH and I are in our late 30s... but not for long) -- so one supposes the free excursions are "working."

 

I like the idea of Oceania, but at their current pricing (included their 2011 discounted fares), from what I've seen, they are still overpriced -- the rates I've seen are not that much cheaper than Regent, and you still have to add in drinks, excursions, internet, etc.

 

I too, love the atmosphere on Regent, and I've found the service to be spectacular - yes, I've had a few gripes for what's purported to be "ultra-luxury", but I"m still a fan.

 

I don't know if it matters to anyone, but I'm a second-genration RSSC passenger -- my parents have been sailing RSSC since the Radisson Song of Flower days (I could be wrong, but I think they were on the maiden free-bar-set-up-in-your-room saling), and have sailed as recently as last summer. They haven't mentioned to me any great disappointment in the product...

[Travelcat2]

Just stick me on any one of the Regent ships, hand me a glass of wine and I'm a happy person. I'm thankful I'm able to be there.

 

And, so do I:-)

 

IslandCruiser: Do we need a cease fire? Okay-- so you will have to be sad with no drama:-)

 

I do understand those that prefer included excursions. My issue is that there is no opt out option. Some people cannot physically do excursions while others have been to the ports repeatedly and would prefer staying on the ship or walking around the town. Opting out would satisfy everyone.

[Responder]

And, so do I:-)

 

IslandCruiser: Do we need a cease fire? Okay-- so you will have to be sad with no drama:-)

 

I do understand those that prefer included excursions. My issue is that there is no opt out option. Some people cannot physically do excursions while others have been to the ports repeatedly and would prefer staying on the ship or walking around the town. Opting out would satisfy everyone.

 

What happens when you go to an all you can eat buffet and you are a small eater.

Can you opt out and ask for some credit?

 

You do understand that having an opt out will not be as cost effective to the cruisers as you might think. Regent knows its numbers and has factored in the percentages for those who go or don't go. Changing this will change their business model, and I don't see this happening, especially when other lines have slowly been mirroring it.

[Travelcat2]

What happens when you go to an all you can eat buffet and you are a small eater.

Can you opt out and ask for some credit?

 

You do understand that having an opt out will not be as cost effective to the cruisers as you might think. Regent knows its numbers and has factored in the percentages for those who go or don't go. Changing this will change their business model, and I don't see this happening, especially when other lines have slowly been mirroring it.

 

It absolutely won't happen! However, I am only looking at things that are not part of being on the ship. Airfare, Hotel and Excursions are similiar in many ways. In order to receive the best discount, I assume you need to guarantee numbers. I also assume that the number of passengers that use Regent Air and pre-cruise hotel fluctuate. Regent uses some calculation to determine the discount on these items. I am guessing here, but, I would assume that the cost to Regent of passengers using the pre-cruise hotels would equal the cost of passengers utilizing "free" excursions in every port. Many of us would be very happy with a $600 discount for opting out of excursions.

[lkakers]

What happens when you go to an all you can eat buffet and you are a small eater.

Can you opt out and ask for some credit?

 

You do understand that having an opt out will not be as cost effective to the cruisers as you might think. Regent knows its numbers and has factored in the percentages for those who go or don't go. Changing this will change their business model, and I don't see this happening, especially when other lines have slowly been mirroring it.

 

It absolutely won't happen! However, I am only looking at things that are not part of being on the ship. Airfare, Hotel and Excursions are similiar in many ways. In order to receive the best discount, I assume you need to guarantee numbers. I also assume that the number of passengers that use Regent Air and pre-cruise hotel fluctuate. Regent uses some calculation to determine the discount on these items. I am guessing here, but, I would assume that the cost to Regent of passengers using the pre-cruise hotels would equal the cost of passengers utilizing "free" excursions in every port. Many of us would be very happy with a $600 discount for opting out of excursions.

 

TC, I totally understand your position, but Responder is absolutely right. If Regent has made their required minimum # of pax on a particular excursion, each additional pax is essentially free. So your excursions aren't worth a $600 rebate -- they don't cost Regent $600 to put you on them. Enough people will take those free exursions, that if you opt out, your rebate would be adding insult to injury -- Regent is already absorbing the cost for everyone else, but now they would have to rebate you as well, sinking them further into the hole.

 

I'm gonna run a few numbers to illustrate:

 

Assuming we're back in the day when Regent charged for all excursions, and assuming an excursion has a 15-person minimum (and some are a lot less), at a possible $149/pp retail cost (what Regent would normally charge), that's a total of $2235 Regent would normally gross.

 

That minimum number of pax is set so Regent can be sure of acheiving a profit based on only those 15 going. I'm guessing (having been a financial analyst for a consumer products company, and knowing the kinds of profit margins we shot for), that their target profit margin is 25-50%.

 

That means, that excursion costs Regent, at most, $1676.25 to put on (and is more likely closer to $1000), so the more bodies they'd put on that bus, the better. Given that Regent doesn't fill their buses for comfort's sake, I'm guessing they shoot for about 30 persons per motor coach (most tour buses have a 47-57 person capacity; 30 is less than 2/3rds full, which is about what I remember from prior Regent tours). At 30 persons, and if that excursion costs ~$1000-1500, that means the cost is only $33-50 per person. At 6 ports for a 7 day cruise, and even assuming you did more than one excursion per day (say, 10 total for the cruise), it's only costing Regent $330-500/pp for your excursions.

 

And it's likely my minimum person per bus is high ... seems to me for a lot of the standard city-tour type excursions (for which Regent usually charges $99-149), the minimum is about 10 for a full motor coach, which means Regent's cost (at 25-50% profit) is probably $495 -$1000. For 10 pax, that means Regent's cost is $49.50-$100 per person. If they get 30 on that bus, it's only $16.50-$33/per person. So it could conceivably be costing Regeng as little as $165/per person for ALL of your 10 excursions on a 7 day cruise...

 

But, as I said before, even that is over-stated -- because, if only a handful of people decline the excursions, Regent is still paying the full costs of those excursions, for those persons who opted in. The true cost of you, a decliner, were you to decide to hop on one of those buses, is essentially $0 (they're already paying the full cost of the tour; doesn't cost them more to put you on the bus that's already going). It's not like hotel/airfare in this way -- if you don't use the room or the air, Regent is paying less out of pocket, since you're not on that flight (which costs them per person), or using that hotel room (which costs them per room, per night).

 

So, as I say, Responder is right -- it's a lot more like a light eater/drinker wanting a rebate for not consuming as much. Yes, Regent saves money with those pax, but it's incremental -- not enough for them to be able to offer a rebate that's not insultingly low.

 

Just my 2 cents from the financial analyst in me...

[Eager2Travel]

That is a very impressive analysis. Thank you for taking the time to do that. It explains a great deal about Regent's ability to provide excursions. We appreciate having them available if we choose to use them. If the price for a cruise we like is right we will take it, if not we wont. :)

[Travelcat2]

lkakers: Thank you so much for that analysis. Had to read it twice, but think I understand the bottom line. If you don't mind, I do have some questions. I need to leave the food issue out of this (less confusing) because no one can really opt out of food -- not even on Carnival. Excursions, air and hotel are, IMO, a different category.

 

1. How does the cost of the extra crew fit into the analysis? On our last Regent cruise, most of the 700 passengers took tours during the day. This required assigning extra personnel to check in the guests, direct them to buses, accompany the guests on the excursions, etc. While I am admittedly not a numbers person, I would guess that there are at least 30% more passengers participating in the program than before "included" excursions. It would seem that there would be an additional cost there.

 

2. I know that Regent has contracts with certain airlines. Do you know if this based on a minimum number of Regent passengers that will be utilizing the included air? Hope that question made sense.

 

3. Quite a few past Regent customers are not happy with the included excursions and feel they are paying for something they are not getting. Whether this is true or not, it is a perception. What would you recommend that Regent do (if anything) to satisfy these customers?

 

As most people know, I am not pro-included excursions. However, on some itineraries we do take some included excursions. I do not find them to be as good as before they became "inclusive". However, the excursions with a fee that we've taken have been good to excellent. In fact, I was disappointed to find too many "free" excursions in our upcoming trip to the Middle East. On most itineraries (Caribbean and Europe for instance) where we have visited the ports at least once previously, it would not take much of an incentive for us to opt out. Maybe something as simple as an OBC.

 

Again, thanks for the informative explanation!

[Wendy The Wanderer]

I also am grateful to lkakers for taking the time to do this study of costs.

 

A question and a comment.

 

Doesn't the cost to Regent go up when they add buses and/or tour guides? So the total cost of a tour to some extent depends on how many people there are, right?

 

As for the quality of excursion, other than the PG (which doesn't count, I believe), I have only few data points. In 2004, in the Black Sea, all our excursions were excellent, and quite small. Prices were reasonable. Didn't do paid ship excursions again until 2006 onboard Navigator and 2007 on Voyager. They ranged from just fine to mediocre, group size was okay. Had paid excursions in 2008 on Voyager and again in 2009, with one extra cost excursion. Excursions in 2008 were fine, but crowded and somewhat badly-organized; in 2009 we did two excursions identical to ones from 2007, and they were the same. Some evidence that the "concierge" prices are a bit out of line, though.

[Responder]

Excellent analysis....Thank you..

 

I hope that those who want to do away with included excursions don't think that they will receive back the fictitious list price as advertised or an equavalent reduction in the fare.

 

Ain't gonna happen..

[shawsie]

Included/not included no big thing. Any time we can go on a cruise and only use our sea pass to open the door is fine by me. The marketing thought behind all inclusive is understandable. Clearly they are trying to attract first time luxury cruisers. Fine by me. The cost savings we would receive from opting out are minimal and long term filling the ships will help keep costs down.

Just maintain service levels and quality and all will be good:D

[Travelcat2]

I agree with that to a point. However, Regent raises their prices every time a new "free" inclusion is added.

[Responder]

I agree with that to a point. However, Regent raises their prices every time a new "free" inclusion is added.

 

Better splain this a little better for me. How does this relate?

[Travelcat2]

This is a difficult one to "splain". The most recent increase that coincided with a new added inclusion was the hotel inclusion. When this inclusion was added, it was as of a specific date. Cruises prior to date date were less money than when the inclusion was added. I'll try to find the specific posts. Basically, if you wanted the pre-cruise hotel, you were paying more than when it was not offered. If you did not want it, the $600 was removed from your account. In order to find this, it would help if anyone remembers the date that included pre-cruise hotels were included.

[Travelcat2]

Okay -- did some research. There is a thread entitled "FREE Luxury Hotel Packages" dated 10/19/2010. You can read the entire thread (arguments and all), or read the exerpts that I pulled from the thread. Again, this relates to Regent raising prices when it added a new inclusion -- in this case it was "free hotel".

 

 

Post #40 (note: TA was incorrect that transfers were not included in pre-cruise hotel).

Here's The Cost To Include the 'free' hotel on my Cruise

________________________________________

Not complaining, AT ALL, just sharing...

 

I contacted my TA this morning to inquire about the change in fare, if I wanted to participate in the Regent hotel program.

 

Alaska Cruise, August 31, Category D

Fare would increase $600 PLUS $119 for transfers (TA stated that transfers are NOT included in the new Regent hotel program)

 

While I agree that this is a wonderful addition to Regent's all inclusive plan, I can definitely get from the YVR airport to my hotel for about $40, and stay in the Fairmont or Pan Pacific for under $250, so this is not an option I am going to go for on this cruise. I can definitely see where it comes in handy on Europe/Baltic/Med cruises, for those of us coming from North America.

 

Post #42

Why is it whenever someone does the math and comes up with a realistic conclusion that the free hotel is not really free he is accused of being negative to Regent? Having to pay $600 extra for your cruise for a room which Regent, buying in bulk, probably gets for $150 is not free. They raised their prices to offset the included shore excursions and are doing it again to offset the hotel rooms. For those who like the idea of having everything included fine. But it's just a marketing gimmick. And there's nothing wrong with that as long as we can all see it for what it is.

 

Post #55 is off-subject – addresses added excursions which is relevant to this threadMy recollection was that the much higher than before 2009 fares were published before the announcement was made about "Free excursions". I always thought that they needed to do something to justify the big fare increases that started that year.

 

Post #58 refers to the fact that hotels are included ONLY if you booked after the increase:

 

My recollection was that the much higher than before 2009 fares were published before the announcement was made about "Free excursions". I always thought that they needed to do something to justify the big fare increases that started that year.

 

Post #59 – the other side of the issue

This is a nice perk for us. As we booked after 10-1, our cruise fee has not increased. Therefore, we will not pay anymore for this rather nice perk. We are doing our own air to New York, and this gives us more more leeway to get there a day early, relax, and then board the ship. I like it!

 

Post #60

Same thing applies to us and I don't think it is worth it. Now what happens if Regent drops the cruise fare? Will we then be offered a room or not? I think they should have made it available to all passengers for 2011 and beyond regardless of when you booked.

[Responder]

OK...so you want to eliminate the inclusive hotel...and they give you back enough so that you can book it yourself for less...

 

Now what?

[Travelcat2]

That was just an example of how Regent increases prices when they add a new inclusive item. There is way too much regarding the excursion program to reference. Afraid I'll have to leave it with my opinion that we are paying for "included" excursions -- just as we are with included airfare and included hotels (however, we can opt out of the latter two). You obviously disagree which is okay too:-)

[wripro]

TC2,

 

That's not just an opinion. It's a fact.