Muster Drill

[terrymtex01]

I almost hate to ask if anyone else has had the same thoughts on this as I have.. but with the recent Costa disaster, it has bought to mind for me what I have always thought during the muster drills. If you read what the survivors are saying there was no organization, it was a "giant each man for himself" to quote a new report. It makes me wonder just what the muster drill is really worth. I have read that the crew didn't know what they were doing, etc. I don't know that I believe they didn't know what they were doing, I just really think the drills they go through are not realistic, etc. Kind of scary.

[mjkacmom]

On our first NCL cruise, we had to bring our lifejackets (and then put them on) to our lifeboat. For our second, no need for lifejackets, and we met in the Blue Lagoon. At the time, I was thankful, but now I'm thinking the old way might be better.

[rzdj96]

My thoughts! I never understood why they aren't mandatory "Prior" to sailing. It seems kind of redundant to allow cruise ships to have it done within 24 hours of departure. That'd be like flying and upon landing "lets do an emergency drill".

Then it's the location. Okay, you're in your house or the shopping mall and a fire breaks out. Normal folks would get outside, but on-board a ship, lets have a meeting in an enclosed space with hundreds of others. OOPS! the ship is listing, how's your "climbing skills" to make it to that center stairway over those tables, chairs and broken glass (not to mention people). What do you mean "follow your team leader, orderly and quietly" when your lungs are filling with smoke or your fighting climbing a carpet with hundreds of others"? It's bad enough departing an enclosed space on just a drill. With 24 years of previous Naval service, these regulations just don't give me that "warm & fuzzy"! The short inconvenience of putting a life jacket on, knowing where your life boat AND RAFTS are, is worth more to me than a little inconvenience. You never know as things happen. Regardless of the odds!

[NJGeorge]

I agree Terry. The Concordia accident was almost like the Posiden (sp) Adventure movie.

Not like a power failure or a fire. They arrested the captain!

Among the many accounts of what happened, one thing I read said the ship was not supposed to be where it was when it hit the rock that was not on the map.

Add to the mix, language barriers and general hysteria of the passengers and a 20 degree list. I think it was a miracle more people were not killed.

Muster drills are for the lawyers and insurance companies peace of mind ;)

[suzequ]

Hear, hear!! We've been cruising for 18 years and it's only recently that NCL (can't say for other lines) have switched to the assemble in the ____ lounge, theater, etc. At least they are still doing it before departure. But I also think it makes more sense to have passengers assemble at their actual muster station, in their life jacket, and check off names.

 

The last few times when we've done the drill in a lounge my dh and I have done our own check of where our muster station is, how to get there from the cabin, etc. My dd thought we were crazy, but says she's doing it with us this March (unless NCL has gone back to the old way).

[JMG680]

The drills help, but I think Panic and people not staying calm are the biggest factors in it not being a smooth process. In the military we have a saying, this plan will not survive first contact. meaning that when IT hits the fan, planing goes out the window.

[sparks1093]

Nothing in an emergency is going to happen the way that you think it will during training. Ever. Emergencies just don't play nice. Things go wrong. People forget things under pressure. Equipment that was just checked inexplicibly fails when needed. Passengers panic. And of course before an accident happens everyone thinks that it won't happen, so they don't take the training seriously. After this passenger and crews from all lines will take the muster a little more seriously. But then complacency will set in again. Until the next time.

[bugspost]

I have only been on 2 cruises..........RCI & Princess........I found the RCI muster drill made more sense....we did have to go to our stations but we did not have to wear our life jackets and they did a roll call .......On Princess, we met in a lounge.......& had to put on jackets in lounge but there was no roll call........I would have been more comfortable actually meeting at muster stations....and think all should do this. There were many on Princess that just stayed in their cabins & didn't do the muster drill........they just hide in the bathrooms...crazy...but they have been on so many cruises...they don't feel they need to do the drill. A roll call would have eliminated this.......

 

I don't know how NCL does the drill........will find out in Nov. Going on the sun!

woohoo!!:)

[Sauer-kraut]

Here's the thing, if I'm in the dining room at my assigned dinner seating, how and I supposed to get back to my cabin and grab my life jacket and then head to my lifeboat station that is now on the downward side of the list and the lifeboats are no longer capable of being lowered because of the angle of the boat.....

 

No wonder there was panic.

[bugspost]

I have only been on 2 cruises..........RCI & Princess........I found the RCI muster drill made more sense....we did have to go to our stations but we did not have to wear our life jackets and they did a roll call .......On Princess, we met in a lounge.......& had to put on jackets in lounge but there was no roll call........I would have been more comfortable actually meeting at muster stations....and think all should do this. There were many on Princess that just stayed in their cabins & didn't do the muster drill........they just hide in the bathrooms...crazy...but they have been on so many cruises...they don't feel they need to do the drill. A roll call would have eliminated this.......

 

I don't know how NCL does the drill........will find out in Nov. Going on the sun!

woohoo!!:)

 

Also,,,RCI did it prior to our sailing while Princess didn't do it till 30 minutes into our sailing.

[computerworks]

Here's the thing, if I'm in the dining room at my assigned dinner seating, how and I supposed to get back to my cabin and grab my life jacket and then head to my lifeboat station

 

In NCL muster drills, they say in case of an emergency, don't go back to your room...that jackets are available at the life boats.

[50something]

We were on Costa Pacifica August 2010. We boarded in Barcelona but didn't do muster drill until our last day on board. Listening to some of the passengers on Concordia it seems that this is still the way things are done. Passengers board abd leave the ship at lots of different ports. When we were on Pacifica we had people join and leave in Barcelona, Savona, Malta etc.

[NJGeorge]

In NCL muster drills, they say in case of an emergency, don'tgo back to your room...that jackets are available at the life boats.

That's if you make it to one.

[bonvoyagie]

Even with a muster drill, the Coasta incident would have been trouble. From the reports I have read, the captain and crew was slow in reacting to the inital grounding problem and the time wasted telling the pax that everything was OK could have been used to start the evacuation of the ship. Once it started to list they were in trouble and no amount of drilling could have helped them. I have noticed that cruise ships by design seem top heavy - most only draw 25' of water or so and most of the 15 decks are above water so a small amount of list creates problems. Reports say that once the ship started to list there were only a few minutes before it tipped. The captain of the ship has been arrested and will be held liable for his actions - or non actions. There could be other officers charged as well it will take weeks to get this all sorted out.

 

I think that when we cruise from US ports the Coast Guard requires more than SOLA does and therefore the required muster drills are done prior to departure from the port. We also tend to have more closed loop cruises due to the Jones Act - in europe there are more open cruises where there are people joining the cruise at any given port and exiting at any given port - doing a muster drill in every port is probably not practical - therefore the 24 hr rule is part of the SOLAS regulations. USCG trumps SOLAS when in US waters.

 

The USCG also requires crews to hold evacuation drills on a weekly basis - this is usually done on a port day - on the other related thread there is a post from a former crew member of NCL as to what they must do.

 

While it seems that as of late, the muster drill has gotten more laid back, it takes something like this to enforce the need for it. It may also bring back the days of actually wearing the life jacket and standing by the boats. I hope it wakes up all cruise ship captains and crews as to the importance of ships safety.

[wibeachbum]

I think they should go back to the old way of doing the muster drill. Meeting at your life boat with your life jacket. Going to a meeting room seems a little ridiculous.

[palmyrafan]

We sail on NCL, usually the Pearl. The first year, they had us on deck near our life boats with life jackets on and did a roll call (1992).

 

On our next trip in 2008 (Cozumel), we did the muster station near our life boats, without our life jackets on (still had to bring them) and they called out by Cabin / Suite #.

 

In 2009 (Glacier Bay Alaska) we met in the Cagney's lounge, no life jackets and they did roll call by Cabin/Suite #.

 

In 2010 (Sawyer Glacier, Alaska) we met in one of the lounges, no life vests, no roll call.

 

At no time were we told which life boat was ours or given any instructions on how to board them.

 

Seems they are getting lax as time goes by with no "major" incidents. Hopefully, this will wake up the Cruise Industry. The good thing about NCL is they do the Muster Station Safety Drills about 30 minutes prior to sailing.

[EnsignPulver]

Even with a muster drill, the Coasta incident would have been trouble. From the reports I have read, the captain and crew was slow in reacting to the inital grounding problem and the time wasted telling the pax that everything was OK could have been used to start the evacuation of the ship. Once it started to list they were in trouble and no amount of drilling could have helped them. I have noticed that cruise ships by design seem top heavy - most only draw 25' of water or so and most of the 15 decks are above water so a small amount of list creates problems. Reports say that once the ship started to list there were only a few minutes before it tipped. The captain of the ship has been arrested and will be held liable for his actions - or non actions. There could be other officers charged as well it will take weeks to get this all sorted out.

 

I think that when we cruise from US ports the Coast Guard requires more than SOLA does and therefore the required muster drills are done prior to departure from the port. We also tend to have more closed loop cruises due to the Jones Act - in europe there are more open cruises where there are people joining the cruise at any given port and exiting at any given port - doing a muster drill in every port is probably not practical - therefore the 24 hr rule is part of the SOLAS regulations. USCG trumps SOLAS when in US waters.

 

The USCG also requires crews to hold evacuation drills on a weekly basis - this is usually done on a port day - on the other related thread there is a post from a former crew member of NCL as to what they must do.

 

While it seems that as of late, the muster drill has gotten more laid back, it takes something like this to enforce the need for it. It may also bring back the days of actually wearing the life jacket and standing by the boats. I hope it wakes up all cruise ship captains and crews as to the importance of ships safety.

 

Good Post! You are correct about USCG rules and SOLA. I think the main reason we no longer meet at the life boats is due to the larger size of the ships and the lack of room on the deck at the muster stations.

[EnsignPulver]

Even with a muster drill, the Coasta incident would have been trouble. From the reports I have read, the captain and crew was slow in reacting to the inital grounding problem and the time wasted telling the pax that everything was OK could have been used to start the evacuation of the ship. Once it started to list they were in trouble and no amount of drilling could have helped them. I have noticed that cruise ships by design seem top heavy - most only draw 25' of water or so and most of the 15 decks are above water so a small amount of list creates problems. Reports say that once the ship started to list there were only a few minutes before it tipped. The captain of the ship has been arrested and will be held liable for his actions - or non actions. There could be other officers charged as well it will take weeks to get this all sorted out.

 

I think that when we cruise from US ports the Coast Guard requires more than SOLA does and therefore the required muster drills are done prior to departure from the port. We also tend to have more closed loop cruises due to the Jones Act - in europe there are more open cruises where there are people joining the cruise at any given port and exiting at any given port - doing a muster drill in every port is probably not practical - therefore the 24 hr rule is part of the SOLAS regulations. USCG trumps SOLAS when in US waters.

 

The USCG also requires crews to hold evacuation drills on a weekly basis - this is usually done on a port day - on the other related thread there is a post from a former crew member of NCL as to what they must do.

 

While it seems that as of late, the muster drill has gotten more laid back, it takes something like this to enforce the need for it. It may also bring back the days of actually wearing the life jacket and standing by the boats. I hope it wakes up all cruise ship captains and crews as to the importance of ships safety.

 

Good Post! You are correct about USCG rules and SOLA. I think the main reason we no longer meet at the life boats is due to the larger size of the ships and the lack of room on the deck at the muster stations

[redlef]

I think they should go back to the old way of doing the muster drill. Meeting at your life boat with your life jacket. Going to a meeting room seems a little ridiculous.

 

Agreed. Even if that's not the way it's going to "go down" when the time comes, training that includes instruction and activity is better than training that just includes instruction.

 

Preparing for the unthinkable is very difficult. People will panic, and one paniky person will get another person who is on the verge of panic to lose it.

 

Nobody was reported as dying because they lacked a life jacket. Going to your room for the jacket is silly. And if you're in the back of the ship, going to the front of the ship if that's where your muster station is, is equally ridiculous. All you'll do is clog up the hallways and restrict movement of others. So sometimes, a little commons sense is useful, but how do you train 4200 passengers, a third of them already drunk, to use common sense?

 

I wonder how many people on the Concordia actually got off the ship at their assigned muster station in their assigned lifeboats?

 

I think muster is useful because it lets the passengers know that if the unthinkable happens, there is a plan to help us. Maybe it's not a perfect plan and maybe an unnannounced "Plan B" will actually be the way we escape, but at least the crew realize there's a slim possibility of the need of an escape plan and they've got one. (which probably includes the possibility of the passengers panicking)

 

If there's open embarkation in European ports, maybe there should be mandatory muster for new passengers. They can certainly make sure they take your picture, I'm sure they can make sure you get five minutes of emergency instruction as well.

 

The fact that there were so few casualties shows that in spite of panic, mistakes, unclear instructions or bad training, the system as a whole is pretty darned good. I bet that cruise ship travel is probably one of the safest forms of travel in the world.

[VideoTech]

Nothing in an emergency is going to happen the way that you think it will during training. Ever. Emergencies just don't play nice. Things go wrong. People forget things under pressure. Equipment that was just checked inexplicibly fails when needed. Passengers panic. And of course before an accident happens everyone thinks that it won't happen, so they don't take the training seriously. After this passenger and crews from all lines will take the muster a little more seriously. But then complacency will set in again. Until the next time.

 

Sparks, you hit the nail on the head. In the end, you are responsible for your own life. You can choose to listen in the muster drill, whatever it is, or you can choose to show up half drunk and act like it's all a big waste of time.

 

Personally, I always learn as much as I can about the layout of the ship, and in the back of mind as I do this is "what if?" I do the same thing on an airplane...where's the exit, what am I going to do "if" it happens?

 

I don't mean by this that it should be "every man for himself." Far from it. I think the muster drills are important, and I don't think they are thorough enough at all. I think every passenger needs to know what's going to happen after they get to their muster area, and they also need to know what options they have if they can't get to their muster station. None of this is explained at all in the current routine.

 

But I'm afraid the fact of the matter is that we probably won't see much changing, even after this incident.

[Cubechick]

Honestly I don't know how much a muster drill, whether w/ your life jacket and roasting in the sun on the promenade deck by your life boat, or at an indoor muster station w/o your life jacket will prepare you for a real emergency.

 

Really, in both instances, the drill boils down to getting instruction on where to meet in case of emergency. As already stated, the Costa Captain did not relay the emergency to the pax in a timely manner. Even if they'd had a muster drill and knew where to go, by the time the passengers were informed, it was too late...

 

Utterly tragic...

[spacewoman]

I've noticed our last two Jewel cruises that there are few people paying any mind to the lifeboat instruction. With our CCL cruises we had to have the life jackets on and be at our muster station. All the personnel made sure that we knew EXACTLY how these vest need to be on. For us --- we check the door to see exactly what our route is to the lifeboats.

 

This terrible incident should tell everyone how important emergency procedures are to learn. Granted, nothing will go "by the book." To me, if it's imprinted in my brain where the lifeboats are and I take the time to learn the layout of the ship, then I've got a good chance of surviving something catastrophic.

 

My thoughts and prayers are with the passengers and crew.

[bonvoyagie]

The current plans for evacuation of a ship assume there is time for it to be orderly. Ships have watertight compartments and should be able to remain afloat for at least an hour or more. The timeline on the Costa ship showed the inital hit around 9:15PM and no evacuation until 12:30AM - three hours where the captain could have started an orderly evacuation - before the ship started listing enough that the lifeboats could not be lowered. Crew members probably knew what was happening but unless the captain orders it - they are helpless to act on their own - and probably not paid enough to do so. As for panic, that will happen on its own, but you are right it only take one or two people to panic and from there it just snowballs. It is worse when the people who are supposed to be incharge are doing nothing to prevent what becomes an every man for himself situation. Captains should act and react according to the situation - most would probably err on the side of caution and evacuate the ship early on.

[cabincop]

I agree with alot of info on here but let me also say if your commander is not reacting right then you need someone else to step in and take over. When I am on a cruise I always check for exit near me and also the nearest exit across from me. Count the doors needed to get where you need to go, same as on a plane. Cruises don't want people to fear their trips that is why they have short drills and it's true emergencies never happen the way we expect them to. My prayers go out to everyone affected

[elruth]

Terry- Mex, Did you ever post your review of your cruise on the Spirit? I missed reading it. When we were on the Spirit in Dec we did go to our muster station which was outside. I can see why they don't require wearing the life vests as they are bulky and take up room when you put them on and many people were squeezed into the muster station as it was. I always have a feeling on NCL cruises that they are pretty well organized and note the muster drills are ALWAYS quite soon after everyone has boarded.

 

It seems the Captain of this ship left much to be desired! He was on land even when passengers were still on the ship! I am amazed there weren't more fatalities! I would have been quite frantic to say the least but this just tells me never to sail on Costa.