Concordia Special

[Silverado6x6]

I saw the Discovery version last night, it was very good.

[graphicguy]

Probably the best show out of all of them I've seen (and, I think I've now seen all of them regarding Concordia).

 

Two things I came away with. First, that the Concordia was being tracked constantly, in real time. That means Costa knew exactly what was going on and where the ship was going (too close to the shore, and traveling too fast). Second, the scenes from the bridge show the Capt in constant contact with Costa. So, Costa's decisions were just as flawed as the Captain's.

 

Lastly, the honeymoon couple taking the majority of the video showed some wild scenes. Then, there family with two daughters in tow, and how they desperately tried to get off the ship (jumping into a lifeboat from the now sideways Concordia). That was real courageous). I couldn't help but think how that contrasted with the honeymooning couple who seemed to be one of the first people off the ship.

 

In any event, it was just as damning to Costa/Carnival as it was to the Capt.

[glrounds]

Probably the best show out of all of them I've seen (and, I think I've now seen all of them regarding Concordia).

 

Two things I came away with. First, that the Concordia was being tracked constantly, in real time. That means Costa knew exactly what was going on and where the ship was going (too close to the shore, and traveling too fast). Second, the scenes from the bridge show the Capt in constant contact with Costa. So, Costa's decisions were just as flawed as the Captain's.

 

I hope I don't sound like a "glossy-eyed" Carnival/Costa cheerleader, but if the Capt was telling Costa the same thing he was telling the passengers (that it was just an electrical problem) then, how could Costa's decisions be flawed?

 

[tntornadox]

Two things I came away with. First, that the Concordia was being tracked constantly, in real time. That means Costa knew exactly what was going on and where the ship was going (too close to the shore, and traveling too fast). Second, the scenes from the bridge show the Capt in constant contact with Costa. So, Costa's decisions were just as flawed as the Captain's.

 

This has been brought up before and I simply do not believe Costa (or any other cruise line) tracks their ships in real time. It is possible to do so (indeed, people on CC track ships all the time using AIS), but I just don't see it. They have people they trust to be in charge on the ships and there is nothing they can do from land... according to reports, while the captain was in contact with Costa's head of Marine Operations, he wasn't telling him the full truth. Only one compartment was flooded, then two were flooded but the ship wasn't sinking and by the time he told him the ship was listing, he had initiated abandon ship.

[graphicguy]

This has been brought up before and I simply do not believe Costa (or any other cruise line) tracks their ships in real time. It is possible to do so (indeed, people on CC track ships all the time using AIS), but I just don't see it. They have people they trust to be in charge on the ships and there is nothing they can do from land... according to reports, while the captain was in contact with Costa's head of Marine Operations, he wasn't telling him the full truth. Only one compartment was flooded, then two were flooded but the ship wasn't sinking and by the time he told him the ship was listing, he had initiated abandon ship.

 

tnt...if I'm remembering the show correctly, that's exactly what they said. They track all of their ship's in real time. I also thought they mentioned that it was some sort of requirement that they do so.

 

I'm sure this is all recorded on the ship's black box, which we may, or may not ever hear. But, given some of the other statements regarding this sort of thing was encouraged by Costa (and other cruise lines) as a way to "show off" their ships. And, this was done with Costa knowing it.

 

Again, regardless of the Captain's errors (which were plentiful), Costa's errors were just as egregious, especially if they were telling the Capt to minimize the severity of the situation with the passengers.

[curlyd]

tnt...if I'm remembering the show correctly, that's exactly what they said. They track all of their ship's in real time. I also thought they mentioned that it was some sort of requirement that they do so.

 

I'm sure this is all recorded on the ship's black box, which we may, or may not ever hear. But, given some of the other statements regarding this sort of thing was encouraged by Costa (and other cruise lines) as a way to "show off" their ships. And, this was done with Costa knowing it.

 

Again, regardless of the Captain's errors (which were plentiful), Costa's errors were just as egregious, especially if they were telling the Capt to minimize the severity of the situation with the passengers.

 

As I had the show saved, I just reviewed it and you are correct - it says "every ship must automatically transmit it's direction, speed and position by law, and in real time".

[tntornadox]

Indeed, all ships transmit this information, but that doesn't mean there is someone sitting at a desk somewhere watching it all in real-time. I am sure Costa reviewed this information after the fact, as did everyone else (including here).

[curlyd]

Indeed, all ships transmit this information, but that doesn't mean there is someone sitting at a desk somewhere watching it all in real-time. I am sure Costa reviewed this information after the fact, as did everyone else (including here).

 

This is why I like following these threads, someone always thinks of things I don't.

[Tarpeian Rock]

The most amazing "new news" in the Discovery program - new to me anyway - was that the captain didn't in fact turn the ship around and beach it, but rather that the ship was totally drifting and without engine power, and it was only the large superstructure catching the wind, and it was the wind turning it around and pushing it toward that "shelf" the ship came to rest on. Without that, it would seem that the Concordia would have totally sunk.

[graphicguy]

As I had the show saved, I just reviewed it and you are correct - it says "every ship must automatically transmit it's direction, speed and position by law, and in real time".

 

Thanks for the confirmation, Curly. I thought that's what I saw/heard.

 

tnt....if Costa wasn't diligent in watching where their ship was going since it's being transmitted and recorded in real time, then they're even more culpable. It just further proves that they were negligent by not tracking their own ship.

 

Rock...I remember that segment, too. Up until this point, I had read that it was the Capt who "steered" the ship into shallow waters to save more passengers and crew.

 

When, in fact, the wind blew the ship towards the shore until it hit the shallow shelf (which is where it is, now).

[tntornadox]

tnt....if Costa wasn't diligent in watching where their ship was going since it's being transmitted and recorded in real time, then they're even more culpable. It just further proves that they were negligent by not tracking their own ship.

 

So, you are saying cruise lines should have dedicated staff staring at computer screens tracking every ship at every moment? What happens if it goes off course? Do they have a magic reset button?

 

Cruise lines trust the judgement of the people they put into control of these vessels... for better or worse. The data the program alluded to is called AIS, it is information automatically transmitted and is rarely watched real-time except by ship buffs and cruise enthusiasts, for good reason, it's extremely boring to watch.

[Vampire Parrot]

Being in the UK I haven't seen the Discovery channel program, and I'm interested to hear that they have come to the conclusion that the ship was blown by the wind. Could someone who saw the show please let me know (either here on by PM) if the postI published on 30th of January was accurate? I posted

 

I'm not familiar with the electrical system of Costa Concordia, but given that the engine room had flooded and that the only electrical power available came from the emergency generator, I doubt that the bow (or stern) thrusters could be used. I'll explain why I believe this. If someone else has more information then please say so.

 

To start with, the pictures of Costa Concordia when she was listing slightly shows that none of her cabins are lit, her promenade/lifeboat deck *is* lit, and that she's showing lights that indicate she's not under command. From this, and from the bloody great hole in the hull which flooded the engine room, all evidence points to the only electrical power available comes from the emergency generator.

 

The bow thrusters (and on Costa Concordia, stern thrusters) will require around 1.5 to 2 MW each and so will be connected to the main electrical bus (11kv on Vista ships) which is powered by the main diesel generator sets in the engine room. The emergency generator on Vista class ships (Zuiderdam, Arcadia, etc) can only power the 690V emergency bus and can produce around 1.2MW, and I would place a bet that the same is true on the Costa Concordia. Even if it could be rigged up to power the 11kv bus, it would probably trip if any of the bow thrusters were turned on. So I don't believe the thrusters were used to bring Costa Concordia to the island - I think it was the wind and current that drove her onto the rocks.

thanks in anticipation,

VP

[CruisersNC]

Being in the UK I haven't seen the Discovery channel program, and I'm interested to hear that they have come to the conclusion that the ship was blown by the wind. Could someone who saw the show please let me know (either here on by PM) if the postI published on 30th of January was accurate? I posted

 

thanks in anticipation,

VP

 

 

Yes the Discovery show stated that the ship was dead in the water and it was only the wind that blew the ship back to shore...and also caused the water to move inside the ship and caused the list to switch from the one side to the other.

[Steppy08]

Being in the UK I haven't seen the Discovery channel program, and I'm interested to hear that they have come to the conclusion that the ship was blown by the wind. Could someone who saw the show please let me know (either here on by PM) if the postI published on 30th of January was accurate? I posted

 

thanks in anticipation,

VP

 

Yes, they brought in US maritime experts who believe the ship was pushed by the wind to its current and final position. They studied the evidence and believe the ship lost all engine power and was dead in the water after the impact. The wind thankfully pushed the vessel around and back towards land. Which is estimated that saved hundreds, if not thousands, of lives. This was the most interesting part of this special to me, as it explained very thoroughly why the ship was turned around with the damaged part out of the hull out of water.

[pantalon]

Could someone who saw the show please let me know (either here on by PM) if the postI published on 30th of January was accurate?

VP

 

Being in Spain I haven't had the opportunity to see it either but I assume the ship did not have sufficient power for running any of its thrusters and the emergency generator power cannot be used for that purpose without making modifications the engineering staff did not have the time for. The emergency lights you saw may even have been running on battery power, perhaps? I think there are battery backups on them if emergency generator power fails. Does anybody know?

[Mrs. Wilburforce]

I came away from watching this program with the same sense. We can now put to rest any idea that the captain did any thing helpful.

The second impression from this program was how did so many people survive! There must have been a preponderance of younger and/or fit people for so many to have saved themselves and their children. Watching those videos and trying to imagine an elderly person with health issues or a disabled person getting themselves positioned to climb down a rope or jump into the water just didn't compute. I also wonder how many of the missing perished in elevators.

So many sad thoughts co-mingled with thoughts of thankfulness that most passengers survived.

 

 

The most amazing "new news" in the Discovery program - new to me anyway - was that the captain didn't in fact turn the ship around and beach it, but rather that the ship was totally drifting and without engine power, and it was only the large superstructure catching the wind, and it was the wind turning it around and pushing it toward that "shelf" the ship came to rest on. Without that, it would seem that the Concordia would have totally sunk.

[tntornadox]

The Emergency generator is typically located in the funnel housing on most modern ships, I believe Concordia's lighting ran up until close to the final list because photos show her lights burning up until that point. I would imagine once she listed over onto her side, the generator is probably still out of the water but could not operate given the angle.

[jameybano]

The NatGeo version is available on demand to US DirectTV customers. Search: Italian Cruise Ship Disaster

[emileg]

...The second impression from this program was how did so many people survive! There must have been a preponderance of younger and/or fit people for so many to have saved themselves and their children....So many sad thoughts co-mingled with thoughts of thankfulness that most passengers survived.

I would also attribute the survival of the overwhelming majority of passengers and crew to a very able and well-trained crew that implemented their training. The passengers interviewed by the Discovery Channel suggested chaos and pandemonium. But the video belied these suggestions. Crew were directing passengers and can be seen behind on the decks when the passengers were on the life boats. The life boats also came back to pick up more passengers until it was unsafe to do so.

 

I can't even begin to imagine the inner panic that most of the passengers and crew must have felt during this terrible ordeal. I imagine that this documentary is only the second of many to come. We are likely to hear many stories of true heroism on the part of both crew and passengers.

[graphicguy]

So, you are saying cruise lines should have dedicated staff staring at computer screens tracking every ship at every moment? What happens if it goes off course? Do they have a magic reset button?

 

Cruise lines trust the judgement of the people they put into control of these vessels... for better or worse. The data the program alluded to is called AIS, it is information automatically transmitted and is rarely watched real-time except by ship buffs and cruise enthusiasts, for good reason, it's extremely boring to watch.

 

Yes....just like air traffic controlers do with planes.

[tntornadox]

But like air traffic controllers, they can't really do anything if something goes amiss, so what's the point for ships?

[TheBestIsYetToCome]

I'm trying to think, in this specific case of Costa Concordia, whether anything might have been done had someone shoreside become aware that the ship had veered off course. After the impact, when pressed by the port officials in Livorno, the Captain maintained it was a simple power outrage and no assistance was required. So, I don't think he would have been any more receptive to someone checking in and inquiring when the plan for the voyage was altered.

[graphicguy]

But like air traffic controllers, they can't really do anything if something goes amiss, so what's the point for ships?

 

Costa knew where their ship was, and where it was going. They could very well have instructed the Capt to take a different course.

 

Not much you can do with a plane if there's an accident in the sky. Air traffic controllers are there to keep "mishaps" from happening and keeping planes from crashing into each other and away from weather that could cause an accident.

 

The fact that Costa did not order their ship away from the dangerous course they were on tells me they were more interested in the WOW factor of passing so close to the shore vs the safety of their passengers, their crew and their ship.

 

As stated earlier, Costa/Carnival are culpable. By law, the ship must be tracked in real time. Either they were careless and didn't observe the dangerous course (when they had the information to do so readily available). Or, they did observe the dangerous course and decided to ignore it.

 

Either way, there were plenty of poor decisions by the Capt and by Costa/Carnival that resulted in this tragedy.

[CruisersNC]

Costa knew where their ship was, and where it was going. They could very well have instructed the Capt to take a different course.

 

Not much you can do with a plane if there's an accident in the sky. Air traffic controllers are there to keep "mishaps" from happening and keeping planes from crashing into each other and away from weather that could cause an accident.

 

The fact that Costa did not order their ship away from the dangerous course they were on tells me they were more interested in the WOW factor of passing so close to the shore vs the safety of their passengers, their crew and their ship.

 

As stated earlier, Costa/Carnival are culpable. By law, the ship must be tracked in real time. Either they were careless and didn't observe the dangerous course (when they had the information to do so readily available). Or, they did observe the dangerous course and decided to ignore it.

 

Either way, there were plenty of poor decisions by the Capt and by Costa/Carnival that resulted in this tragedy.

 

The Discovery Channel special indicated that "every ship must automatically transmit it's direction, speed and position by law, and in real time". But that doesn't mean that there's someone from Costa and every other cruise line sitting there at a control station 24/7 watching for ships veering off course and then calling them and ordering them to correct course. This is the mother of all assumptions on your part....and you state it as FACT! You know how they say you should never assume! lol :D Please share with us your source that states that there WAS a Costa official watching the path of the Concordia that night....that this person knew the ship had veered off course and was headed toward danger....this person had the authority to call the ship and have the course corrected but decided not to because he/she thought the WOW factor was more important....and all these decisions were supported by the Costa company. I've watched every program so far on the Concordia and read every shred of evidence posted on these threads...but I haven't seen one shred of evidence to indicate any of this is true.

[graphicguy]

We've established that a ship must transmit its course in rwal time. To whom do they transmit?

 

The same people who are responsible for the shop, of course. That would be Costa/Carnival.

 

The ship is worthe somewhere in the neighborhood of $600MM-$700MM. You better believe CostaCarnival knows exactly where those expensive assetts are at all times.