Gay cruise ship docks in Dominica; two passengers arrested for buggery

[whw]

I do not wish to sound like a prude, but why were the men engaged in a sexual act where they could be seen by anyone. Regardless of the local laws, the law of prudence suggests that perhaps other people do not wish to watch you engaged in a sexual activity. I feel that this applies to all sexual orientations not just gay. CLOSE the drapes and none of this would have happened.

[Schplinky]

SWeet. Arrest the whole ship. 2000. Gay guys.

They won the battle. 2 is enough for now

They won. Cheers!

 

Are you being deliberately dense? My point was that 2,000 men managed to be gay in Dominica without being arrested. These men had sex on their balcony (according to folks who were on the cruise, who have pictures) and they got arrested. I think they deserve to be arrested but not mis-treated.

 

Canada and Dominica are under the British commonwealth

Your laws are not the same as the United States Law

Your view of this incident is different from Americans

 

Being a member of the Commonwealth does not mean we have the same laws. Commonwealth countries are free to make their own laws and have their own court system. Our laws have very little in common with Dominica. Do you really think the laws on gay relations are the same in Canada (where marriage is legal), England (where civil unions happen), Australia (where they do not) and Dominica (where gay sex is illegal) are all the same because we're all Commonwealth countries? You can't possibly have thought about this and come to that conclusion.

 

You are also correct that our laws are different than those of the US. We have gay marriage in this country so if you're trying to say my perspective is shaded, you might be right, but I think they're shaded in a different direction than you think.

[soldham]

Dumb move and there is nobody to blame but the two people 'in flagrante delicto'.

[turquoise 6]

Are you being deliberately dense? My point was that 2,000 men managed to be gay in Dominica without being arrested. These men had sex on their balcony (according to folks who were on the cruise, who have pictures) and they got arrested. I think they deserve to be arrested but not mis-treated. Refrain from your personal comment about me!!! what you are writing is irreverent. I disagree with you and our conversation /debate is over.

 

 

 

 

Being a member of the Commonwealth does not mean we have the same laws. Commonwealth countries are free to make their own laws and have their own court system. Our laws have very little in common with Dominica. Do you really think the laws on gay relations are the same in Canada (where marriage is legal), England (where civil unions happen), Australia (where they do not) and Dominica (where gay sex is illegal) are all the same because we're all Commonwealth countries? You can't possibly have thought about this and come to that conclusion.

The commonwealth is what it is , based on monarchy. take that thought with you.

 

You are also correct that our laws are different than those of the US. We have gay marriage in this country so if you're trying to say my perspective is shaded, you might be right, but I think they're shaded in a different direction than you think.

again I really don't want to debate with you about yourself.

HAVE A NICE DAY

[Schplinky]

Yes, it's likely easier to say incorrect things than debate facts.

 

See you.

[ONT-CA]

Canada and Dominica are under the British commonwealth

Your laws are not the same as the United States Law

Your view of this incident is different from Americans

 

We do not see any differences in our concepts of indecency; it is what it is regardless of laws. We have the feeling that his act was not one of pleasure or passion but one of a deliberate in your face demonstration of resentment for the homophobia known to exist on the island. To us this is not the way to protest their rejection of us. As a matter of fact it probably did more to engrain their hatred.

[COMBOY]

I was on this cruise (I had a wonderful time-this was my 6th Atlantis cruises.) I would like to give you my take on what happen or at least what I heard. We docked on Roseau, Dominica @ 8:30A. I had breakfast and then processed down to the pier for my 9:15A tour. We had a lovely 4 1/2 tour to Trafalgar Falls and the Emerald Pools. The tour was very good and I really enjoyed the tour guide (very informative). Dominica was much better then Grenada. At least for me I had no issues with any of the ports I visited and I was kinda worried about it before hand. Anyway, during the show that night Rich Campbell, CEO of Atlantis, came to the stage to let us know what happen. Two passengers were seen by locals residents "engaging in sexual activity" on their balcony. I would assume it was more then being nude or just kissing. The police were notified and board the ship to arrest the party. Both representatives from Celebrity and Atlantis escorted the two individuals to the police station where they were to be detained overnight to the see the judge the following morning. They would be charged with a misdemeanor, pay a fine and be released. They then could rejoin the ship in St. Bart or fly home. It was reported they paid a fine of $2,400 and they decided to fly home. Friends of theirs who were on the ship packed their belongings and shipped it home. End of story. Of course this was the talk of the ship and reported in the media. Atlantis made is perfectly clear at the start of the cruise that any sexuality activity was to be take back to "inside" of your cabin. Everyone I talked to on the cruise thought what they did was just plain stupid. It doesn't matter if the ship was docked in Los Angeles or London or whether is was a gay cruise or not -- what they did was illegal. When you are in a foreign country you must follow their laws and rules. This is just common sense. They got what they deserved--gay cruise or not. They really got off easy. They could have gotten jail time too and the last place you'd want to be is a Dominica prison. Personally I thought everyone of the cruise was well behavior. I never saw anything inappropriate and security was monitoring the parties closely. I'm sure people have sex on their balcony (gay or straight cruises), but please do it while the ship is "At sea."

[turquoise 6]

We do not see any differences in our concepts of indecency; it is what it is regardless of laws. We have the feeling that his act was not one of pleasure or passion but one of a deliberate in your face demonstration of resentment for the homophobia known to exist on the island. To us this is not the way to protest their rejection of us. As a matter of fact it probably did more to engrain their hatred.

Interesting, thats it then. Haven't been on that cruise , or know any of the parties involved, I will go by what you are saying. I only am responding to the initial media that reported the story.

So it seems most agree ,including fellow passengers , with you. OK

[soldham]

We do not see any differences in our concepts of indecency; it is what it is regardless of laws. We have the feeling that his act was not one of pleasure or passion but one of a deliberate in your face demonstration of resentment for the homophobia known to exist on the island. To us this is not the way to protest their rejection of us. As a matter of fact it probably did more to engrain their hatred.

 

When saying "we" are you speaking in of yourself in the royal sense or are you speaking for some number of people? Just asking ....

 

Unless you have information that I have been unable to glean from everything I have read/seen I think postulating that this was a 'defiance screw' is a bit of a stretch. At least 'we' feel so :cool:

[jamessemaj]

When saying "we" are you speaking in of yourself in the royal sense or are you speaking for some number of people? Just asking ....

 

Unless you have information that I have been unable to glean from everything I have read/seen I think postulating that this was a 'defiance screw' is a bit of a stretch. At least 'we' feel so :cool:

 

Speaking for myself, not ONT-CA, with whom I agree, I think he is speaking in the same "we" as those in support of what is becoming clear was an obscenity speak of as unity as "family". You want to be excluded from his "we" and I want to be excluded from such a "family" where such acts are acceptable.

 

By the way, I won't say anymore about it. I've enjoyed all of the exchange with "family" on this board as I can stand.

[soldham]

Speaking for myself, not ONT-CA, with whom I agree, I think he is speaking in the same "we" as those in support of what is becoming clear was an obscenity speak of as unity as "family". You want to be excluded from his "we" and I want to be excluded from such a "family" where such acts are acceptable.

 

By the way, I won't say anymore about it. I've enjoyed all of the exchange with "family" on this board as I can stand.

 

I do not argue that that this was obscene - what I do challenge is the supposition that these two gentlemen were taking a 'political stance' :eek:. Sometimes poor judgement or outright stupidity is no more complex than just that......

[Typhoon1]

Unfortunately that is over half the islands in the Caribbean. A lot are inhabited by the descendents of slaves brought from Africa to work the plantations and retain their African heritage in part. Witness the problems the Church of England (Episcopal in the US) is having with the African part of their communion.

 

We were forced to port in Nassau several years ago, after our scheduled stop in Progresso was canceled. It was obvious, the natives were less than welcoming. Fortunately, it was a brief stop only to comply with the Jones Act.

[ONT-CA]

When saying "we" are you speaking in of yourself in the royal sense or are you speaking for some number of people? Just asking ....

 

Unless you have information that I have been unable to glean from everything I have read/seen I think postulating that this was a 'defiance screw' is a bit of a stretch. At least 'we' feel so :cool:

 

When my partner and I have discussed and agree on the issue we will respond as "we". If on the other hand I take a solitary position on something I will refer to "I" in the response. It was "our" feeling that the sexual act committed while in this port on an open balcony facing the port could only be construed as an act of defiance unless of course they engaged in this activity regularly including US ports.

[ProvincetownCruiser]

If these men were indeed having sex or were nude on their balcony in full view of the town or other passengers then they brought the problems on themselves.

I have been on several RSVP Caribbean cruises and always had a wonderful time, but I have also always assumed that the ports of call had no laws against gay sex. I am quite surprised that a gay charter company would stop at a place where gay sex was indeed illegal and if they do I think they should make it a point to inform the passengers of these laws for the passengers safety and to allow the passengers the choice of whether they wish to spend money in a country that persecutes its gay citizens.

[soldham]

When my partner and I have discussed and agree on the issue we will respond as "we". If on the other hand I take a solitary position on something I will refer to "I" in the response. It was "our" feeling that the sexual act committed while in this port on an open balcony facing the port could only be construed as an act of defiance unless of course they engaged in this activity regularly including US ports.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I personally think their behaviour could be construed as quite a few other things than defiance. I continue to find it difficult to reconcile two people that did something so idiotic having the presense of mind to be politically aware of their surroundings......

 

And they are not talking (thus far) so I guess we will wait and see......

[Boytjie]

If these men were indeed having sex or were nude on their balcony in full view of the town or other passengers then they brought the problems on themselves.

I have been on several RSVP Caribbean cruises and always had a wonderful time, but I have also always assumed that the ports of call had no laws against gay sex. I am quite surprised that a gay charter company would stop at a place where gay sex was indeed illegal and if they do I think they should make it a point to inform the passengers of these laws for the passengers safety and to allow the passengers the choice of whether they wish to spend money in a country that persecutes its gay citizens.

 

Here's a list of Caribbean countries and their legal status re. homosexuality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#Caribbean_islands

[Schplinky]

Here's a list of Caribbean countries and their legal status re. homosexuality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory#Caribbean_islands

 

 

Many thanks for this. It will be helpful in future cruise planning. Interesting that Dominca is a signatory to the UN declaration AND has laws against being gay that it still makes active charges on.

[oceanbound22]

The men in question claim they were only naked on the balcony, NOT having sex. Let's be careful before claiming something that might not be accurate.

[soldham]

The last I heard was the men in question said they were "partially clothed" however given the divergence of stories from them and others who were on the ship I don't put alot of credence to their assertions.

[oceanbound22]

If someone would read this thread, they could easily believe there was a 2 person orgy going on in public. OMG ..... That is the problem with no-nothing experts.

[soldham]

If someone would read this thread, they could easily believe there was a 2 person orgy going on in public. OMG ..... That is the problem with no-nothing experts.

 

Welcome to the world of social media and chat boards. What I generally take from them is these are perspectives or opinions. If you do otherwise you do so at your own peril.......

[m steve]

and someone on land would have to be using binocculars to see what they were doing on the balcony. There's a glass or metal screen that is about 40" high to protect passengers from falling overboard. And the glass can be quite refective. Someone on the island was looking to make some money.

[Schplinky]

and someone on land would have to be using binocculars to see what they were doing on the balcony. There's a glass or metal screen that is about 40" high to protect passengers from falling overboard. And the glass can be quite refective. Someone on the island was looking to make some money.

 

If that's true, why do you think they only targetted these two the whole day?

[ONT-CA]

Welcome to the world of social media and chat boards. What I generally take from them is these are perspectives or opinions. If you do otherwise you do so at your own peril.......

 

The persons in question did plead guilty and profusely apologized to the court. Does this not have some meaning?

[Schplinky]

The persons in question did plead guilty and profusely apologized to the court. Does this not have some meaning?

 

They plead guilty to the lesser charge of indecency (as opposed to buggery), which is interesting.