Suing Carnival

[BigDoug]

I think some of you are missing the point of the appeals court ruling. The issue was whether the family could sue Carnival because Carnival hired the doctor in question. It was a given that they could sue the doctor for malpractice. Their lawyer wanted to go after the deep pockets of Carnival for bigger bucks. That is what this is about, $$$. What this could ultimately lead to is the cruise lines eliminating medical services from their ships due to the legal liability. The cruise lines are not required by law to provide medical services and provide them as a service to their passengers. If the cruise lines would have to provide a complete ER on all their ships, you could bet that medical services to passengers would be gone.:(

[Ship Addict]

Do cruise ships have medical lab services? When I went in to the hospital with abdominal pain, they thought it was likely that I had appendicitis, but they took blood and urine samples to verify it. I am not a doctor and this happened 15 years ago, but I wonder if lab tests are required to verify the diagnosis. If so, do cruise ships have this capability? Do ships have facilities to perform emergency surgery?

 

I am thinking they took the blood and urine samples to rule out other diagnoses -- like urinary tract infection (moving up to the kidneys) or pancreatitis. There is not a lab test that will diagnosis appendicitis. You might be able to diagnosis an appendicitis with an ultrasound, but I'm not sure. I doubt a ship's medical center would have an ultrasound, anyway.

[GoinCruisin]

As far as I know, appendicitis is usually missed with ultrasound, unless you have a very good tech... A CT can many times catch it. My mother recently had an ultrasound to rule out various things, and they said it could still be an appendicitis, as her WBC was over 10000. She could wait it out at home for 24 hours, or undergo a full series of tests, which still may be inconclusive... she chose to wait, thankfully it was not an appendicitis... it's just one of those things that is difficult to diagnose I think... and I wouldn't think a ship had the kind of equipment needed to make an accurate diagnosis...

[halos]

Hi Halos,

 

My 8 yr. old daughter has Crohns disease she was diagnosed at 2 yrs. old and has been on Pentasa (Azulfindine) since that age. She also takes Prednisone(steroids) ....it is an awful disease....Glad your husband was misdiagnosed. My daughter had her appendix removed last year laparoscopically. This was done at CHOP (Childrens Hosp. of Phila.) and yes, Phila. has some GREAT hospitals..........

 

 

I'm still waiting on my Clam Bake order you were spose to be sending me ...

Hope to catch up with ya in June...

 

Tammy

 

Tammy...it sucks that your daughter has that dreaded disease. I had a client (woman) with it and I can remember when she'd have bad days and blow up like a balloon on the steroids...watching everything she ate..it's just awful. I can't imagine a child having to put up with all that :(

Isn't CHOP great????? My daughter had her tonsils removed there. Everyone there is amazing. All hospitals should be that good.

 

I still can't believe you like Clambake food :eek: :p

I'd rather send you something from Bayley's on Pine Point Road :)

[tamscottc]

Tammy...it sucks that your daughter has that dreaded disease. I had a client (woman) with it and I can remember when she'd have bad days and blow up like a balloon on the steroids...watching everything she ate..it's just awful. I can't imagine a child having to put up with all that :(

Isn't CHOP great????? My daughter had her tonsils removed there. Everyone there is amazing. All hospitals should be that good.

 

I still can't believe you like Clambake food :eek: :p

I'd rather send you something from Bayley's on Pine Point Road :)

 

 

LOL, stop at Bayley's for my dad, and he'll be indebted to ya for life...He's the true "Maine"iac lived there his 45yrs. before moving to Pa....How I managed marrying a good ole Southern boy who wouldnt know a good lobster if it bit him in the hiney...I'll never know..lol

 

E had her tonsils out at CHOP also, and yes..they are amazing.

 

Tammy

[halos]

LOL, stop at Bayley's for my dad, and he'll be indebted to ya for life...He's the true "Maine"iac lived there his 45yrs. before moving to Pa....How I managed marrying a good ole Southern boy who wouldnt know a good lobster if it bit him in the hiney...I'll never know..lol

 

E had her tonsils out at CHOP also, and yes..they are amazing.

 

Tammy

 

Now I'm craving haddock :p

[derf5585]

here we go.......Tort reform

 

Tort Reform in a Nutshell

from

http://civilliberty.about.com/od/tortreform/i/TortMar2005.htm

 

Tort reform debate best served by truth

from

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2004/03/15/edca0315.htm

[bphman]

Derf, you always come up with great stuff.

 

The basic problem is that a wrongly sued doctor has no recourse. He can't countersue the plaintiff or the attorney because it is difficult to prove malice. They get off Scott free despite causing great harm to the physician. SHould the doctor have 3 such claims, he is uninsurable despite no wrongdoing and must give up the practice of medicine. Sixty percent of the cases don't go to trial because there is no basis to bring suit. Some are settled without admission of guilt to avoid the cost and time of trial. In New Jersey over 70% of the cases that go to trial are found in favor of the doctor. If a doctor only got it right 30% of the time, he wouldn't be practicing. If the attorneys are so concerned about the rights of the injured, then why do they wind up with more of the award than the injured party in some cases 80%? And, you are more likely to win the lotto than to see an attorney charged with bringing a frivolous case. It make no sense that a different decision can be rendered by 2 different juries in 2 different venues. OJ was cleared of killing his wife in criminal court but guilty in civil court. Makes no sense. Our legal system is broken. Admit it!

[kelcruzn]

"It make no sense that a different decision can be rendered by 2 different juries in 2 different venues. OJ was cleared of killing his wife in criminal court but guilty in civil court. Makes no sense. Our legal system is broken. Admit it!"

Actually, this makes perfect sense. In a civil court the burden of proof (prepoderance of the evidence; i.e. more likely than not) is much lower than in a criminal court (beyond a reasonable doubt). You lose a criminal case, and often you go to prison. In a civil case, you'll end up with a monetary damages. It's not that they were different decisions, it's that the burdens of proof in the two cases were very different.

[PrincessJen]

Halos, I have one for ya! I had surgery in 1994, about 5 months later I started having HORRIBLE pain in my stomach... well, of course they said "it could be an appendicitis"... um, no... don't have an appendix... so after plenty of doctors guessing, they just went in... someone had left a CLAMP INSIDE me during my last surgery!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It never even entered my mind to sue!!!! I guess we are all different... I was just so happy they found what it was and I was out of pain!!! Wow, to think, if I had the "sue happy" mentality, I could be off in the caribbean somewhere now :D

 

 

Ouch, that MUST have been painful. Hopefully the clamp didn't cause any additional problems than, what must have been, excrutiating (sp?) pain.

[nrdsb4]

I believe society's expectations of physicians have become quite unreasonable. Basically what MANY people expect from doctors is PERFECTION. I know some unbelievable doctors for whom I have great respect (I am an ICU nurse). Every single one of them has made errors in judgement, diagnosis, and treatment. They are human beings who do not know everything. Many people view their fallibility as "negligence" and are quick to blame and sue. We will never have all of the answers as it relates to medicine. Not everyone can be saved, our bodies are not designed to live forever.

 

I am all for holding incompetent physicians accountable. But it's quite distressing to know that many brilliant people will never go into medicine and other gifted and compassionate doctors leave the profession because of society's eagerness for and acceptance of litigation.

 

By the way, appendicitis mimics many illnesses and disorders. It is not quite so simple as running a blood test.

[Jasonsterling]

It seems like the argument that the Carnival ship is a "small city" and hence Carnival should be liable for the medical attention of it's guests is flawed. After all, if you got poor advice from a doctor in a small town here in the states would you then sue the City Council or maybe bring a suit against the Mayor. Would we expect the governments of our small cities to oversee the medical attention of their citizens and visitors? How about if you go to Disney World or another large resort (or a resort in the Carribean)? Is it reasonable to sue those enities because there was no medical service or their were mistakes in the execution of the service?

[bphman]

I know the difference between civil and criminal court but that shouldn't be either. If you are innocent, you are innocent. End of discussion. It is pure greed that drives civil court. As far as capping awards, how much makes one feel better? Does $500,000 feel better than $250,000? How about a million...or 2 million? That won't bring a life back. Economic losses are never capped. How fair is "joint and several" liability laws where someone is judged 10% at fault but pays 100% of the damages? We can't afford this any more.

[GoinCruisin]

Ouch, that MUST have been painful. Hopefully the clamp didn't cause any additional problems than, what must have been, excrutiating (sp?) pain.

 

Jen, it was rather painful, but not as much as I would have thought by having a clamp inside me! Bad thing was, it never showed up on xray... and even worse than that, they made it sound like this kind of thing is not rare! And this was at DUKE! I guess we might be shocked to see what some people are walking around with inside them! LOL! I did have 2 follow up surgeries to remove scar tissue from it being there, and actually that was more painful than the clamp... I know that alot of people out there would have seen an attorney right away, and looking back, it would not have been out of line to do that... I just don't think in those terms... someone made a mistake, I'm alive, it's all good, LOL!!!

[halos]

The thing that no one has touched on and yet is very important is that there are some people with very legitimate reasons to sue and the legitimacy of their 'real' issues are lessened by every frivolous lawsuit there is out there.

People who take advantage make life difficult for people who are honest..for instance, my mother...who has been a widow now for 12 years is STILL 'watched' over by the workman's compensation lawyers/investigators. They are allowed to stop paying her if she remarries or even cohabitates with a man. My Mother is still mourning the loss of my Father and has never even considered dating let alone remarrying. But these investigators harrass her by not only banging on her door occasionally to check up on her, but follow her and also question her neighbors about her as well....asking her neighbors very personal questions about my mother. It's creepy! How awful is that???

Why do they do this??? Because they HAVE to because of the other people who DO take advantage.

The WORST thing about all this is that my father was not what you'd consider a major breadwinner. His salary was meager, therfore this compensation (what's left of it after the lawyers eternal 20% cut) is so minimal that it most likely costs workman's comp more to pay the investigators than to just give my Mom the lousy check without harrassing her!

Greedy lawyers/greedy people who hire greedy lawyers.

GGGGRRRRRRRR! :mad:

LOL!! The only thing I detest more than whiners are greedy bloodsuckers!

[gwe21]

[quote name='Jonathan Quayle Higgins']Do cruise ships have medical lab services? When I went in to the hospital with abdominal pain, they thought it was likely that I had appendicitis, but they took blood and urine samples to verify it. I am not a doctor and this happened 15 years ago, but I wonder if lab tests are required to verify the diagnosis. If so, do cruise ships have this capability? Do ships have facilities to perform emergency surgery?[/QUOTE]


I was thinking about that question and wondering this........ The ship is not going to have a definitive way to diagnose appendicitis...so say the Dr. suspects that the girl DOES have appendicitis. They call in an airlift and fly her outta there...back to the states (best case scenario). She goes to the ER and the doctors there run labs and other tests and say "well, looks like you have a case of diahrea"..... Would the girls parents then sue the doctor for ruining their vacation and misdiagnosing her?? Just a thought..........

[GoinCruisin]

[quote name='gwe21']Would the girls parents then sue the doctor for ruining their vacation and misdiagnosing her?? Just a thought..........[/QUOTE]

More than likely, and sadly, yes!!!! I'm sorry this happened and I'm glad she is okay, but I don't see how something that is so highly misdiagnosed and something as difficult to diagnose could be blamed on a ship's doctor... it happens. I certainly don't go on the ship expecting a world class medical facility, I'm glad they have what they DO have...

[derf5585]

I have tried searching but I have come up emptyhanded

What is the history of lawyers, Who was the first lawyer?
What was the first suit and when was it?

[fireofficer5]

Mabey the cruise line will get a better doctor.

[big_duck]

[quote name='derf5585']I have tried searching but I have come up emptyhanded

What is the history of lawyers, Who was the first lawyer?
What was the first suit and when was it?[/QUOTE]

GOT YA!

History of Tort law

[url]http://iped.utep.edu/IPED%20Reports/2001_11PDF/Chapter2.pdf[/url]

[halos]

[quote name='big_duck']GOT YA!

History of Tort law

[url]http://iped.utep.edu/IPED%20Reports/2001_11PDF/Chapter2.pdf[/url][/QUOTE]

OOOhhhh derf! You've been out Googled! :eek:

[Girlsnightout]

Maybe they all have the love boat doctor syndrome....don't want to practice medicine, just want to cruise.

I had a ships doctor misdiagnose my son and who literally couldn't take his temp. I had to turn the thermometer around for him and point out that it was metric rather than in Fahrenheit. I didn't sue but I didn't have to pay the bill either;) .

[derf5585]

[quote name='halos']OOOhhhh derf! You've been out Googled! :eek:[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the link

I have been DERFED

[ladyandchristian]

I'm Canadian, so we are a bit tighter on frivolous type lawsuits, usually anyway. There is a cap her on what you can get for pain and suffering, with those being totally paralyzed for life usually maxing out in that category at about 350,000. A few weeks ago, a case was settled here though, a man got $350,000 because he and his wife found a dad fly in their Culligan water BEFORE they drank any of it. He claims they both threw up and now have nightmares about it. They sued for breach of contract b/c they claim their water is %100 pure. Anyway, this upset me greatly here, because my husband just settled a lawsuit in Jan that has been ongoing for five years. He was walking to work, a dump truck (yes a real dump truck), that only had 35% of its brakes working jumped the curb because the driver knew the brakes would not allow him to stop in time to avoid an oncoming car. He jumped the curb and ran over my husband (yes, RAN OVER). It hit him, threw him, and then ran over his right leg. This caused obvious injuries, soft tissue damage, multiple fractures, etc. My husband was out of work for two years, has permanent nerve damage, arthritis, and will need a new knee shortly, not to mention the obvious scarring. Anyway, for all of that his pain and suffering portion of settlement was only $125,000 dollars.
To think that this man wasted three years of court time, because he SAW a fly, when my husband could barely walk.....it more than disgusts me. Frivolous lawsuits are what kept my husband from even getting his settlement for five years, the courts are too backed up.

[voyagerfl]

[size=4]Ok.....I'll bite. What's a Dad Fly ?? :D

[size=3]Sorry, could not help myself........sorry to hear about your husband, that is such a shame. Hope he is doing better.[/size]
[/size]