cuban cigars??

[ColinIllinois]

isnt it time for this trade embargo with cuba to end.. Cuba is a small little island.. Whose people flee from them seeking a better life in the USA.. also I would like to port in cuba sometime..

 

 

Actually Cuba is a very large island with over 11 million citizens.

[smeyer418]

There is no simple answer, but here is the best one I have found:

 

“Only persons returning directly from Cuba after a licensed visit there

are permitted to bring Cuban cigars into the United States, provided the

domestic value of such cigars does not exceed 100 U.S. dollars and the cigars

are for that person’s personal use and not for resale. Inasmuch as all other

importations of Cuban cigars are illegal, you must assume that all offers to

buy or sell such cigars in the United States involve cigars that are imported

illegally. Contrary to what many people believe, it is illegal for travelers

to bring into the United States Cuban cigars acquired in third countries (such

as Canada, England, or Mexico).”“It is illegal for U.S. persons to buy, sell, trade, give away, or

otherwise engage in (or offer to engage in) transactions involving

illegally-imported Cuban cigars. The penalties for doing so include, in

addition to confiscation of the cigars, civil fines of up to $50,000 per

violation and, in appropriate cases, criminal prosecution which may result in

imprisonment.”“We recognise that the prohibitions that apply to Cuban cigars may

deprive many consumers of a sought-after product. However, these prohibitions

apply to all goods of Cuban origin and are an important element of the

comprehensive program of economic sanctions against the Cuban government which

have been in place since 1963.These sanctions have had the full support of the

past seven Administrations and were further tightened by President Clinton in

August 1994.”

Pretty strong stuff, and pretty clearly worded.

To hear it again in the U.S. Custom’s service’s own words, read their own

press release at: http://www.customs.ustreas.gov/travel/cigars.htm.

Note also that since 1994 it has been illegal for anyone, even foreign

nationals to bring in any quantity of Cuban cigars – even for personal

consumption. (Prior to 1994 foreign nationals were allowed to import cigars for

personal use only. This loophole is now closed.)

Here’s what it says in the U.S. Customs service’s “Customs

Regulations for Non-Residents”…

“You may include in your personal exemption not more than 200 cigarettes

(one carton) or 50 cigars, or 2 kilograms (4.4 lbs.) of smoking tobacco, or

proportionate amounts of each. An additional quantity of 100 cigars may be

brought in under your gift exemption. NOTE: Cigars of Cuban origin are

generally prohibited entry, even for personal use.“

The Trading with Enemy Act…

Still have doubts? Here’s one of the specific regulations governing the

importation of Cuban products.

 

Trading with Enemy Act, 50 USC App5(b)The Cuban Asset Control RegulationCode of Federal Regulations, section 515.101 et seq.

vol. 19“The purchase, importation, transportation or otherwise dealing with

merchandise outside the US if that merchandise is: (1) of Cuban origin; (2) is

or has been located in or transported through Cuba; (3) is made or derived in

whole or in part from articles which are the growth, produce, or manufacture

of Cuba, is illegal and punishable by a fine of not more than $50,000 or

Imprisonment of not more than 10 years.” “A transaction between a US citizen within the US and his agent, home

office, branch, or correspondent outside the US is prohibited as if he made

the transaction. Gifts of Cuban origin, whether acquired by US citizens abroad

or brought into the US by another to be given as a gift within the US is

prohibited unless liscensed by the Office of Foreign Assests Control at the US

Department of the Treasury.”

“The Cuban Assets Control Regulations of the US Treasury Department

require that persons subject to US jurisdiction be liscensed to engage in any

transaction related to travel to, from, through, and within Cuba. Liscenses

are *not* granted for business and tourism. This restriction includes travel

to and from Cuba through a third party (such as Canada or Mexico, for

example).” “The Treasury Department will consider liscenses on a case-by-case

basis.”

Whew! The bottom line is that it is only legal to possess Cuban cigars if

they were obtained through legal channels (brought back for personal consumption

from a licensed visit to Cuba seems to be the only way), and then you’re only

allowed $100 domesticvalue. What defines “domestic Value in a

commodity which can’t be bought or sold domestically? The general concensus is

that under the above exception you may bring back 50 cigars (2 boxes) maximum

from an authorized trip to Cuba.

 

This answer is NO longer correct. It was at the time it was printed but now its not allowed period.

The "rule" is no Cubans no how no where. BTW the rule is YOU have to prove where the Cigars are from with no labels. No proof? and they are presumed to be Cubans...but the reality is that most inspectors will look the other way for a small amount. How much is a small amount actual depends on the whim and caprice of the inspector.

 

As I said I have seen them sold in the US when the embargo was on( to some one the Cigar store knew very well)...and I have brought a little over a box back myself...long time ago...

[Davechipp74]

So with all of this information provided to you, it still boils down to "What can I get away with"?

 

John

yes my lack of moral compass should have zero bearing with you

im talking about bringing a few cigars back for some friends

no big deal at all

i have served my country as a u.s. marine with over 3 years in heavy combat

therefor im entitled dam it :p:)

[2inTul]

yes my lack of moral compass should have zero bearing with you

im talking about bringing a few cigars back for some friends

no big deal at all

i have served my country as a u.s. marine with over 3 years in heavy combat

therefor im entitled dam it :p:)

 

You're "entitled" to blatantly break the law!?! :eek:

 

Wow you must have been a great Marine. :rolleyes:

[Davechipp74]

You're "entitled" to blatantly break the law!?! :eek:

 

Wow you must have been a great Marine. :rolleyes:

entitled to break a law where a former president got his hands on as many cigars as he could before he singed a law (the same said president who was not without great controversy in his actions) well then yes, dont lose site of the fact we are talking about cigars here people.

and yes my SRB stands alone as a meritoriously promoted/decorated marine.

perhaps "entitled" was the wrong word for that i am sorry

i see nothing wrong with bringing home cigars from a cruise regardless of any law

[sstrong]

I'm not going to repost it, but the statute cited above is a joke. I bet the reason there is no record of anyone ever having been prosecuted for purchasing Cuban cigars abroad or bringing small amounts into the country is that government knows the statute is overbroad and would probably be invalidated as unconstitutional if it were ever challenged in court. On its face the statute prohibits U.S. citizens from "dealing with" any merchandise that is "Cuban in origin" or has been "located in or transported through Cuba," anywhere in the world. How are you supposed to tell if something is "Cuban in origin" or if it has been "transported through Cuba"? It *might* be constitutional to prohibit U.S. citizens from *knowingly* purchasing Cuban merchandise abroad (even this is highly unusual). But without a knowledge requirement the statute seems contrary to basic notions of due process and thus unconstitutional. I would not be worried about this statute, only bringing obvious and detectable quantities of Cuban merchandise into the country or reselling Cuban merchandise here.

[sstrong]

So with all of this information provided to you, it still boils down to "What can I get away with"?

 

John

 

Like any rule or law. Its force is equal to its scope of enforcement.

[Beaver1975]

entitled to break a law where a former president got his hands on as many cigars as he could before he singed a law (the same said president who was not without great controversy in his actions) well then yes, dont lose site of the fact we are talking about cigars here people.

and yes my SRB stands alone as a meritoriously promoted/decorated marine.

perhaps "entitled" was the wrong word for that i am sorry

i see nothing wrong with bringing home cigars from a cruise regardless of any law

 

This speaks volumes.

[Beaver1975]

Like any rule or law. Its force is equal to its scope of enforcement.

 

...or "What can I get away with"?

[mpk218]

Enjoy your cigars ;)

[mpk218]

So with all of this information provided to you, it still boils down to "What can I get away with"?

 

John

 

 

You would have been a real party killer back in the 1770's :rolleyes:

[sstrong]

...or "What can I get away with"?

 

I think that was the OP's question. He wasn't asking if there was some abstract, theoretical risk of being prosecuted for touching a Cuban cigar in a foreign country. He was asking about actual practices as they would likely apply to him.

[2inTul]

Sigh….:(

 

I get so saddened by discussions like this. Honestly, how hard is it to do the right thing? A US Marine should of all people understand right from wrong. Do the Marines no longer teach honesty, integrity and obedience?

 

None of us can choose which law we will obey and which we won’t. We are obligated to abide by all lawfully enacted laws just as a Marine is required to follow all lawful orders of a superior officer. If you disagree with a law write your congressman or senator and urge them to introduce legislation to change the law. If they do not then help elect representatives that will. This is how the democratic process works in this country. I would have hoped a Marine that has so bravely served his country would understand this.

[sstrong]

Sigh….:(

 

I get so saddened by discussions like this. Honestly, how hard is it to do the right thing? A US Marine should of all people understand right from wrong. Do the Marines no longer teach honesty, integrity and obedience?

 

None of us can choose which law we will obey and which we won’t. We are obligated to abide by all lawfully enacted laws just as a Marine is required to follow all lawful orders of a superior officer. If you disagree with a law write your congressman or senator and urge them to introduce legislation to change the law. If they do not then help elect representatives that will. This is how the democratic process works in this country. I would have hoped a Marine that has so bravely served his country would understand this.

 

Ahh the ubiquitous and mindless "rules are rules!!!!" argument. First, assuming arguendo that what a law or rule prescribes is equal to the "right thing," it's not clear from this discussion what the law is. Only one person has cited an actual statute. Others have made bald statements about what is or isn't allowed. Even if we identify the supposedly controlling legal authority (i.e., federal statute or regulation), its meaning, intent, and application are obviously grey areas. So even assuming that everything Congress legislates is "the right thing" to do, it's not clear (at least from this discussion) what that is here.

 

I won't bother addressing the naive premise that the strict letter of a rule or law necessarily equates to "morally correct" conduct. Suffice it to say, if someone who has served our country (or anyone else for that matter) wants to smoke a Cuban cigar, I have no moral qualms about it.

[Beaver1975]

Nevermind. :(

[2inTul]

Sigh.......:(

 

More of the same.

[sparks1093]

Ahh the ubiquitous and mindless "rules are rules!!!!" argument. First, assuming arguendo that what a law or rule prescribes is equal to the "right thing," it's not clear from this discussion what the law is. Only one person has cited an actual statute. Others have made bald statements about what is or isn't allowed. Even if we identify the supposedly controlling legal authority (i.e., federal statute or regulation), its meaning, intent, and application are obviously grey areas. So even assuming that everything Congress legislates is "the right thing" to do, it's not clear (at least from this discussion) what that is here.

 

I won't bother addressing the naive premise that the strict letter of a rule or law necessarily equates to "morally correct" conduct. Suffice it to say, if someone who has served our country (or anyone else for that matter) wants to smoke a Cuban cigar, I have no moral qualms about it.

 

Way back in post 3 I posted a link to what CBP has to say about the issue and frankly that's all that I need to know- I don't need to debate morals, I don't need to wonder if the law is just or unjust, everything that I need to know is right there.

[Cmdr Cody]

It is my understanding that US citizens cannot possess them anywhere in the world nor can they be brought into the states regardless of where they are purchased.

 

You cannot posess them in the United States or bring them into the US. You can purchase them and smoke them overseas where they are legal. Your link makes it clear:

 

The words are "It is also illegal for U.S. persons to buy, sell, trade, or otherwise engage in transactions involving illegally-imported Cuban cigars."

 

It does not say an US citizen cannot purchase a legally imported cigar in a different country.

 

It would be impossible for the US government to find out what country of origin was the cigar you smoked in Bermuda or London etc.

 

You just can't bring it back. You should be able to bring it aboard ship since except for POA all NCL ships are registered in the Bahamas and that is not US. Ships in international waters are considered a part of the Nation they are flagged under. Once inside 12 miles of US water, though they have to follow US Customs.

So if you purchase Cuban Cigars smoke em before you get back to US territory.

[Davechipp74]

i appreciate all the info and reply's, and i sincerely apologize for being so krass in previous reply's

:)

[willise]

i appreciate all the info and reply's, and i sincerely apologize for being so krass in previous reply's

:)

 

 

I can certainly understand why you feel the need to be crass. :D

 

I guess it is different from my point of view (not being American) regarding a law that was put into place for reasons most now forget. People can say it was Bay of Pigs or the Missle crisis (it was actually before the crisis), but it wasn't - it was because of the steps made by the Cuban government to take over US interests on the island. Since then, the embargo has almost taken on mythical proportions. Virtually every country in the UN has asked for the embargo to cease.

 

That said, the moral police always make me chuckle a little. They quote laws and moral rules about you "choosing which law we will obey and which we won’t". Yet I am sure that none of them ever drive more than 55 in a 55 zone. They all come to a full and complete stop at a stop sign and never enter an intersection on a yellow light. Yet these are all laws too.

 

Actually, I think the traffic violations are much more serious than the silly Cuban law that the US has in place.

 

I tell you what, I'll buy the Cigars (being legally able to purchase them) and I'll mail them to you from Miami!:D

[tdcjerry]

And I enjoyed my Cuban cigar and the rum I carried on the ship in Jamaica ,in the Pearl cigar lounge. :)

[sparks1093]

You cannot posess them in the United States or bring them into the US. You can purchase them and smoke them overseas where they are legal. Your link makes it clear:

 

The words are "It is also illegal for U.S. persons to buy, sell, trade, or otherwise engage in transactions involving illegally-imported Cuban cigars."

 

It does not say an US citizen cannot purchase a legally imported cigar in a different country.

 

It would be impossible for the US government to find out what country of origin was the cigar you smoked in Bermuda or London etc.

 

You just can't bring it back. You should be able to bring it aboard ship since except for POA all NCL ships are registered in the Bahamas and that is not US. Ships in international waters are considered a part of the Nation they are flagged under. Once inside 12 miles of US water, though they have to follow US Customs.

So if you purchase Cuban Cigars smoke em before you get back to US territory.

 

I wouldn't expect that CBP would say anything about what a US citizen does in another country as they have no jurisdiction. I have seen nothing on this thread that changes my understanding of the law regarding the possession of Cuban cigars by US citizens, whether it's enforced or enforcable is a different matter. (And DW's law supercedes US law in this regard, if I even thought about lighting up any tobacco product anywhere the consequences would be quite dire;).)

[Blind Squirrel]

Dave,

 

If your friends did not specify what kind to get I would recomend either the H Upmann Connoisseur #1 or the Ramon Allones Special Selected. These are both very good cigars at a resonable price. Should be in the $10 to $15 range. If they want Cohiba's expect the $20 to $30 range.

[smeyer418]

You cannot posess them in the United States or bring them into the US. You can purchase them and smoke them overseas where they are legal. Your link makes it clear:

 

The words are "It is also illegal for U.S. persons to buy, sell, trade, or otherwise engage in transactions involving illegally-imported Cuban cigars."

 

It does not say an US citizen cannot purchase a legally imported cigar in a different country.

 

It would be impossible for the US government to find out what country of origin was the cigar you smoked in Bermuda or London etc.

 

You just can't bring it back. You should be able to bring it aboard ship since except for POA all NCL ships are registered in the Bahamas and that is not US. Ships in international waters are considered a part of the Nation they are flagged under. Once inside 12 miles of US water, though they have to follow US Customs.

So if you purchase Cuban Cigars smoke em before you get back to US territory.

 

 

while this sounds nice its not true. US Nationals(citizens or permanent residents) are prohibited from trading with the enemy any where in the world. So the prohibition is against those even overseas. Its true that enforcing it is another issue(its why I suggest not charging them if you purchase it). A cruise line that stops in Cuba or buys and has Cuban cigars on them(selling them not if you bring them on) is prohibited from visiting any US port for some period of time- I think 9 months. so they don't carry them at all...

 

 

"Transactions Involving Cuban-Origin Goods in Third

Countries

The question is often asked whether United States citizens

or permanent resident aliens of the United States may

legally purchase Cuban origin goods, including tobacco and

alcohol products, in a third country for personal use

outside the United States. The answer is no."

 

here is where this is from.

 

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Documents/ccigar2.pdf

 

If you are interested, all the laws rules and regulations as well as some of the most recent interpretations are here

 

http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Pages/cuba.aspx

 

I remember seeing some fines for some relatively small amount of cigars....and will be looking for those pages.

[willise]

"US Nationals(citizens or permanent residents) are prohibited from trading with the enemy any where in the world."

 

I'm sorry, but you have to be kidding using terms like that, right? I understand your message, but to call Cuba "the enemy" is going a bit far.

 

If anything, I think the world in general views the US as the agressor in this issue. In recent years, 190 of the 192 nations at the UN have asked for the trade embargo to Cuba to end. Only the US and Israel opposed the resolution.

 

I also really believe that most Americans would like to see the embargo end as well. The cold war is long over, the US does massive trade with Vietnam, China, Japan, and other nations it was once at war with. Why does Cuba stand out? What logical reason is there for this embargo to continue more than 50 years later?

 

Sorry for getting off topic, but the term "enemy" brings a certain connotation to it that I felt was not justified in this case.