Fascination Man Overboard 8-27-12? (MERGED THREADS)

[CostaSmurfette]

Something else that needs to be said....

 

Passing judgement on Sgt Kemp is distasteful and spiteful...and hurtful to those left behind who knew him, knew what pain he may have gone through and the stresses and strains that his Army life gave him.

 

For all anyone here knows, there could be family, friends...even colleagues from the Army reading this thread as a guest or a member and who have been shattered not just by his loss but by the insensitivity shown by some here.....especially those with an inability to understand or try to understand what his life may have been like and what may have led him to taking his own life.

 

It's all very easy to apportion blame to someone with no visible injury or disability...mental illness strikes at the core of a person, sometimes even after the very best of medical help, they are still tortured...often, especially men who always find it hard to ask for help, hide it and try to act as if everything is fine, when inside they are tearing themselves apart...or they hit substances - drink or drugs - to use as a shield against feelings that they cannot control and that eat away at their lives during every waking moment.

 

Everyone has inner demons, most people can control them but not everyone can...and just cos they cannot, does not make them a weaker person.

 

Whatever sparked Sgt Kemp to run like he did...whether it be a flashback, a mental breakdown, fear or whatever it was...it was enough to make this otherwise strong and well trained man jump off a moving vessel.

 

Only he would know what happened to trigger his flight reflex and he isn't around to tell anymore, his family are left to pick up the pieces...and by family, I mean his blood family and the Armyfamily that he left behind.

 

David Ritcheson had a tortured past, there is every chance that Sgt Kemp by virtue of his Army career was also a tortured soul. His family could well be reading this thread and they will be devastated all the more by those who value a few hours in a port of call to be higher than the loss of their loved one.

[mrs atl]

Value of his life? He obviously didnt value it himself.

I love how everyone assumes that because hes been in the army he has mental probs and ptsd. Those are assumptions.

What if he had been drinking and driving and killed someone else? Would you defend him then?

This isnt just me whining about missing key west. I paid for a five day cruise to two ports. I got two ports, yes.. and a bad experience for my whole family. I could have paid less and went on the four day cruise to the same place that i paid more for.

And the whole "ora" of the cruise was ruined for everyone.

His friends were drinking on the Lido deck on weds night.. please!

[johneeo]

28 pages now, and the same things being said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and 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[tropic1980]

The man paid the consequences (if he did commit a crime) for his actions with his life. Yet people are still mad at him because they couldn't go to key west? That's pretty sad IMO. Imagine if the jumper was a member of your family... You'd want The ship to stick around looking for your loved one and would hope that people would be a little more understanding and willing to miss a port if it meant possibly finding them.

 

It's a tough thing to go through for everyone involved and I get that. but if this happened on my sailing I know I would be willing to miss a port and praying that the family can somehow find a little bit of peace knowing they have compassion from their fellow man. And it isn't about being morally superior or holier then thou... It's about treating people how you'd want to be treated.:(

[CostaSmurfette]

Value of his life? He obviously didnt value it himself.

I love how everyone assumes that because hes been in the army he has mental probs and ptsd. Those are assumptions.

What if he had been drinking and driving and killed someone else? Would you defend him then?

This isnt just me whining about missing key west. I paid for a five day cruise to two ports. I got two ports, yes.. and a bad experience for my whole family. I could have paid less and went on the four day cruise to the same place that i paid more for.

And the whole "ora" of the cruise was ruined for everyone.

His friends were drinking on the Lido deck on weds night.. please!

 

Well, I truly hope that missing a port is the absolute worst thing to ever happen to you and your family.

 

Missing a port is trivial compared to losing a loved one...you have obviously been lucky so far in your life, not losing someone that you love dearly through a mental illness. Maybe when you do experience it first hand, you might just have a little more understanding and compassion.

 

I am so sorry that you missed a tiny part of a cruise.....hopefully the rest of your life will be trouble free, and you won't miss another thing.

[Ocean Boy]

Well, I truly hope that missing a port is the absolute worst thing to ever happen to you and your family.

 

Missing a port is trivial compared to losing a loved one...you have obviously been lucky so far in your life, not losing someone that you love dearly through a mental illness. Maybe when you do experience it first hand, you might just have a little more understanding and compassion.

 

I am so sorry that you missed a tiny part of a cruise.....hopefully the rest of your life will be trouble free, and you won't miss another thing.

 

You may just want to consider the fact that you really don't have any idea whom you are addressing, what his/her life circumstances are or have been, or what losses they may have experienced.

[grand isle joe]

28 pages now, and the same things being said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and over and over and said over and 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...psss.....you forgot one "and said over".........:D

[Ocean Boy]

...psss.....you forgot one "and said over".........:D

 

Thanks for quoting him. Just in case anyone missed it the first time it was well worth a re-read.

[mrs atl]

Well, I truly hope that missing a port is the absolute worst thing to ever happen to you and your family.

 

Missing a port is trivial compared to losing a loved one...you have obviously been lucky so far in your life, not losing someone that you love dearly through a mental illness. Maybe when you do experience it first hand, you might just have a little more understanding and compassion.

 

I am so sorry that you missed a tiny part of a cruise.....hopefully the rest of your life will be trouble free, and you won't miss another thing.

 

You obviously didnt read a word of any of my post(s). I have lost loved ones to tragic accidents. Key word here- accident! This guy made a decision to jump. He obviously didnt have compassion for his own life or his family or for any other person that was on that boat. Again, i am sorry for his friends n fam and all the people who were on the boat. But he had a blatant disregard for his own life and proved that by his OWN actions. He made his decision and every one of the people in his life and on that boat paid for his ignorance. I would feel horrible had he been pushed or fell. But thats not the case. His ignorance. He may have paid the price eith his life but every other person on that boat paid too. Snd we did NOTHING wrong.

[Crusing Nut]

You seem to use the fact that he is an addict as an excuse for his actions. Obviously the legal-judicial system feels differently or it would not keep sending him back to jail. And while you would be terribly sad if he got shot while stealing from another, what if he shot someone while stealing from that person? Most addicts become addicts because of their own actions. Yes, addicts are still people. But most of them are responsible for screwing up their own lives and often times screwing up the lives of those whom they come in contact with. I feel far more sympathy for the family and others whom they violate with their stealing. They are innocent bystanders to another's actions.

 

BBM, I agree with the bolded statement since this happened to me recently. I feel no sympathy for the drug addict that stole my deceased mother's mother ring at all. He stole something very precious to me.

[Crusing Nut]

You obviously didnt read a word of any of my post(s). I have lost loved ones to tragic accidents. Key word here- accident! This guy made a decision to jump. He obviously didnt have compassion for his own life or his family or for any other person that was on that boat. Again, i am sorry for his friends n fam and all the people who were on the boat. But he had a blatant disregard for his own life and proved that by his OWN actions. He made his decision and every one of the people in his life and on that boat paid for his ignorance. I would feel horrible had he been pushed or fell. But thats not the case. His ignorance. He may have paid the price eith his life but every other person on that boat paid too. Snd we did NOTHING wrong.

 

 

What price did you pay? A loss of the port Key West? I can see that your were affected by the loss of visiting the port but to what degree? That it ruined your entire cruise? What would make you and your family whole again?

[grand isle joe]

Thanks for quoting him. Just in case anyone missed it the first time it was well worth a re-read.

 

 

 

 

 

 

......much like "War and Peace"..........:D

[mrs atl]

I lost more than a port. We spent a ton of money on this cruise. Time waiting to go, saving, preparing, being excited only to get on the boat and be disppointed on the very first morning we woke up. Like i said sont tell me how to react. U werent there and dont know how we felt.

[Crusing Nut]

I lost more than a port. We spent a ton of money on this cruise. Time waiting to go, saving, preparing, being excited only to get on the boat and be disppointed on the very first morning we woke up. Like i said sont tell me how to react. U werent there and dont know how we felt.

 

 

So again, what would it take to make everything all right?

[HarpHarp]

So again, what would it take to make everything all right?

 

Nothing will make everything all right. Time will help everyone, the family & friends of Sgt Kemp, the crew, & the other passengers

 

This appears to be the equivilent of a drunk driver who affected thousands of people by his actions. There might be much more going on, but those who were affected have a right to be angry.

 

Really, even those close to a peson who dies are often angy, however briefly, at that person.

 

We can be angry and still be sorry that the person is gone.

[davids68girl]

Can we all agree to disagree and move on? I'd love to hear more about what really happened. :cool:

[Sh1035]

I lost more than a port. We spent a ton of money on this cruise. Time waiting to go, saving, preparing, being excited only to get on the boat and be disppointed on the very first morning we woke up. Like i said sont tell me how to react. U werent there and dont know how we felt.

 

So if an obese person or a life long smoker chooses to have the big H on your cruise would you blame them too for a medical emergency? Technically in most cases was thier own fault? Or those that bring along the almost dead guy or the cancer patient that had 3 months left?

 

Wow it's key west you weren't going to see the sunset celebration anyway and certainly not a place to bring kids??? Certainly more for them to enjoy on the ship..

 

Sorry but as a parent I try my best to not make anything ruin a vacation.

 

Get over it already....

[Crusing Nut]

Nothing will make everything all right. Time will help everyone, the family & friends of Sgt Kemp, the crew, & the other passengers

 

This appears to be the equivilent of a drunk driver who affected thousands of people by his actions. There might be much more going on, but those who were affected have a right to be angry.

 

Really, even those close to a peson who dies are often angy, however briefly, at that person.

 

We can be angry and still be sorry that the person is gone.

 

 

Well HarpHarp, I for one understand being disappointed but angry enough for my entire cruise to be ruined, nope. A port was missed all due to the person for whatever reason jumped off the ship. It is not Carnival's fault that they could not go ahead to the next port. The US ciast guard didn't not release the ship to continue on to their next stop.

 

The people who knew this man certainly have the right to be angry, hurt and uspet. They themselves are probable confused as to the reasons why he jumped off the ship.

 

None of us KNOW with any certainity what happened to make this man jump. People on the ship know rumors, I am pretty positive the captain to not say why this man jumped.

[tpiper55]

Value of his life? He obviously didnt value it himself.

I love how everyone assumes that because hes been in the army he has mental probs and ptsd. Those are assumptions.

What if he had been drinking and driving and killed someone else? Would you defend him then?

This isnt just me whining about missing key west. I paid for a five day cruise to two ports. I got two ports, yes.. and a bad experience for my whole family. I could have paid less and went on the four day cruise to the same place that i paid more for.

And the whole "ora" of the cruise was ruined for everyone.

His friends were drinking on the Lido deck on weds night.. please!

 

You have EVERY right to feel as you do. Those passing judgement on you didn't have their vacation altered. It angers me that people want to justify his actions by ASSUMING that he may have been a tortured soul...As far as him being a 'tortured soul' is concerned, PEDOPHILES also use those sick types of excuses to justify their despicable acts (but we don't walk around with our hearts bleeding for them). It doesn't change the fact that their actions are WRONG. People don't seem to understand how you can separate the two: feelings of sympathy for his grieving loved ones, and irritation and intolerance for his foolish act - these two sentiments are NOT mutually exclusive

 

I knew you were going to be FLAMED from the moment you first posted. Kudos to you for standing firm behind your feelings

[Crusing Nut]

You have EVERY right to feel as you do. Those passing judgement on you didn't have their vacation altered. It angers me that people want to justify his actions by ASSUMING that he may have been a tortured soul...As far as him being a 'tortured soul' is concerned, PEDOPHILES also use those sick types of excuses to justify their despicable acts (but we don't walk around with our hearts bleeding for them). It doesn't change the fact that their actions are WRONG. People don't seem to understand how you can separate the two: feelings of sympathy for his grieving loved ones, and irritation and intolerance for his foolish act - these two sentiments are NOT mutually exclusive

 

I knew you were going to be FLAMED from the moment you first posted. Kudos to you for standing firm behind your feelings

 

 

She was affected by missing a port for crying out loud. It ruined the entire cruise? How do you know that no one else has missed a port all because of something happened out of their control? I have but it certainly didn't ruin the entire cruise for me or my family.

 

To even bring up Pedophiles in this topic is just so wrong and there is absolutely no comparison. How about if passengers on the ship saw some refugees floating around and needed some assitance from the ship and they missed the post because of that? Wouldn't you consider those refugees had done something stupid, risking their own lives and delayed the boat making port?

 

Yes, be disappointed. Yes, be upset, but to have the entire cruise ruined?

[Crusing Nut]

Value of his life? He obviously didnt value it himself.

I love how everyone assumes that because hes been in the army he has mental probs and ptsd. Those are assumptions.

What if he had been drinking and driving and killed someone else? Would you defend him then?

This isnt just me whining about missing key west. I paid for a five day cruise to two ports. I got two ports, yes.. and a bad experience for my whole family. I could have paid less and went on the four day cruise to the same place that i paid more for.

And the whole "ora" of the cruise was ruined for everyone.

His friends were drinking on the Lido deck on weds night.. please!

 

BBM

No comparsion here either. Who did he kill but himself? And to answer your question, I do not excuse a drunk driver nor his/her actions.

 

Ummm, just because his friends were drinking doesn't necessarily mean that he was. My friends drink to drunkeness, I do not.

[mzloolue]

Dear Mrs atl,

 

As your children grow up, they will have bigger disappointments than not being able to buy souvenirs at Key West, for which they had saved and saved. It is unfortunate that the presumed deceased young man, spoiled the vaction for all 2000 on board. My sympathies are for the family who have lost a son, a brother, a cousin.

 

Emi

 

True.

 

We don't know what burdens any person may be carrying.

And if that person is unknown to us it is impossible to know.

People are both strong and extremely delicate creatures.

Each of us probably encounters someone each day who is carrying unimaginable grief, stress or worry.

Just remembering this helps me be a bit more patient and understanding of the people I encounter.

 

Things happen for no understandable reason.

 

What happened is a deeply sad thing.

And anger is a reaction that a lot of people experience.

But anger takes a lot of energy out of the person who is angry.

 

Key West will still be there.

[CELTICGIRLCRUISER]

 

Get over it already....

 

Charming!

[Aquahound]

. It is not Carnival's fault that they could not go ahead to the next port. The US ciast guard didn't not release the ship to continue on to their next stop.

.

 

I don't think anyone is blaming Carnival or the USCG. The blame is being placed where it belongs, on the action of one individual. This was not an accident nor an act of nature. It was an intentional act by one person that altered the vacation of 2000 people not associated with him. And as such, it is perfectly natural for the passengers on board that ship to be disappointed, or angry.

 

They'll get over it, but for right now, anger isnt something they should be flamed for.

[tpiper55]

.....

 

Yes, be disappointed. Yes, be upset, but to have the entire cruise ruined?

 

Why is she not entitled to feel as if her cruse was ruined? From her perspective, it WAS. Who are we to invalidate her feelings? For crying out loud, she said she sympathizes for the loss, but her vacation WAS ALTERED - that is a fact, whether others here want to acknowledge that or not. Her feelings are valid to HER just as yours are to you.

 

As far as my other comments, If you didn't get the analogy, I'm sorry