Fascination Man Overboard 8-27-12? (MERGED THREADS)

[loxley]

Or maybe, just maybe, he felt he had a better chance at surviving with a life ring, than he would have going back to AFGHANISTAN! A stupid, useless, waste of money and our lives... Maybe, just maybe, the fear of being shot by those that they are training put enough fear in him that he thought:

" screw this, screw this govt. that doesn't care about OUR country or OUR LIVES, I am NOT GOING TO BE A VICTIM of people that hate us, I will not let the man I am training to take care of his country, to shoot me in the back and take my life from me. When I enlisted, it was to protect my country and our allies, NOT TO TO FIGHT SOMEONE ELSES WAR, WHEN THEY DON'T CARE ABOUT ME OR MY COUNTRY. My government doesn't care, my friends are dying every day over here in this godforsaken mess trying to help those that HATE Us and believe we are the infidel and we must die! If I want a life, I have to take a chance. I have a better chance at life if I just jump and hopefully I will live"...

Did anyone ever think of that?? If it was me, and I had those thoughts, the last thing I would be thinking of would be ... oh no, I caused these poor people to miss a port... maybe I better not jump... I would much rather they go spend a few hours in key west, that for me to have a long life....

 

Wait a minute, so your theory of why he jumped is because he did not want to go back to Afganastan? Interesting.

[halos]

Please never jump off of a ship I am on. You want to kill yourself, do it somewhere it will not impact other people.

 

So much "feelings" for this idiot who screwed everyone else on the ship's vacation.

 

You don't know if others were on this ship that has been screwed have problems too. Maybe someone is taking gma on this cruise as her last trip and she wanted to see Key West. To bad, she can't now because she was on the ship with an idiot. What about them? They paid good money for gma to get to see what she wanted. A weather issue, not the same thing. Not the same thing at all.

 

You can kill yourself if you want because I am a firm believer in personal choice, but you do not have a right to impact other people with your choice.

 

Thank you for your heartfelt comments. I did have a relative take their life....you are very cruel and make me sick. I am done with this thread..

 

 

LOL...you're all a little angry for no reason. It is entirely possible to be empathetic AND pissed at this guy all at the same time.

Having been on a ship with a jumper, I can say this with 100% certainty.

 

Hell, if you lose someone you know and love you can be pissed at them too, so why isn't being pissed at a stranger who wrecked your vacation a normal reaction??? BUT being sympathetic or empathetic towards someone who takes their own life (for whatever reason, even if it was just plain stupidity as you seem to think) are not abnormal either. And you can actually feel both and I'd bet that most passengers did.

 

How can you not be angry?? You're on vacation and someone literally, single handedly wrecked it and this is NOT just about missing a port...the cruise is ruined because every human being on that ship was taken from a state of 'vacation-stress-free mode into total **** reality real quick.

That is truly a bummer. So they have every right to be mad.

 

Think a little people....use your heads here a minute.

[thistimeplease]

That's right. Blame the people who don't like idiots ruining their vacations.

 

Mean?

 

I bet you would not feel the same way if some jerk were to ruin your vacation.

 

 

If their vacation is ruined because they didn't go to Key West I'm so sorry. Someone's life is over, I guess Key West was more important than that. If someone was going to Key West because it was someone's last trip maybe they should have flown because with the weather there is no guarantee they'd make it to that port on a cruise. Even with missing the port these 2000 people had a cruise to enjoy. If one port is going to make or break your cruise fly there.

[Ocean Boy]

Why is this thread ongoing?

 

A man jumped off the ship, reasons unknown and we'll never know why, and why do we need to know? Yet, we are now over 300 posts:eek:

 

Why is it that when one person tires of a thread instead of just leaving it they feel everyone else should leave it too?

[Ocean Boy]

If their vacation is ruined because they didn't go to Key West I'm so sorry. Someone's life is over, I guess Key West was more important than that. If someone was going to Key West because it was someone's last trip maybe they should have flown because with the weather there is no guarantee they'd make it to that port on a cruise. Even with missing the port these 2000 people had a cruise to enjoy. If one port is going to make or break your cruise fly there.

 

And none of the passengers on the ship caused that ending nor can any of them do anything about it.

[sarahleebones]

Kudos to the Carnival board. Wow, some of you are just plain mean. :( I hope the mods will close this thread.

 

I just choose to skip through the ugliness and scan for updates.

[Aquahound]

I just choose to skip through the ugliness and scan for updates.

 

I'm eager to read passenger accounts of what they saw and heard aboard. There is a roll call, so there are CC members aboard. I'd like to know what buzz circulated around the ship.

 

On another note, I urge folks to have a little better understanding of one another. It is perfectly natural to have different reactions to this. Anger, sorrow, whatever. One is not wrong for these feelings, only wrong when bashing others for theirs.

[tahqa]

On another note, I urge folks to have a little better understanding of one another. It is perfectly natural to have different reactions to this. Anger, sorrow, whatever. One is not wrong for these feelings, only wrong when bashing others for theirs.

 

And THIS, I am in complete agreement with. Thank you, Paul, for being the voice of reason. :)

[Mara Suung]

I thought he was drunk, and didn't intend to kill himself. Did I miss part of the story?

[tahqa]

I thought he was drunk, and didn't intend to kill himself. Did I miss part of the story?

 

His actions imply that he was trying to evade security as opposed to killing himself. But without having the person himself to ask questions of there will always be some gaps in the story.

[wolfganghowell]

Thank you Paul and I hope you will be able to share any new details that come out. I am avoiding the nastiness for now. As I believe halos said, it is possible to have empathy and anger. Some of the venom on here is shameful. This appears to be a strange story - just as Aquahound said and all the speculation just clouds the waters.

[Rob&Bonnie]

Let me start by saying that I have great sympathy for not only the family of this young man, but also to those affected by this event. Why he did what he did probably went into the water with him, and the armchair quarterbacks can only guess as to his state of mind.

 

As for the responses, I have been on both sides of violence - as a victim and as a first responder. Everyone will react differently, and it is not up to anyone else to decide if my reaction is better or worse that someone elses reaction. A lot of first responders use a 'gallows humor' as an armour - otherwise repeatedly dealing with the stress would consume them and they would be of help to no one. You may not have the same reaction, but it is not up to you to choose what works for someone else. We are called 'individuals', and our responses are individual as well.

 

As for the comments about getting help for the soldiers, keep in mind that we have trained these men and women to BE the help, not to ask for help. They are trained to show no weakness, then we expect them to reverse this training and spill their guts out in support groups or doctors offices. Sadly, this is not as simple as we would like to think. I'm the proud mother of a veteran (Iraq & Afghanistan) who's regular job is as a cop in a large city - I've seen the struggle up close and personal.

[gliner]

If their vacation is ruined because they didn't go to Key West I'm so sorry. Someone's life is over, I guess Key West was more important than that. If someone was going to Key West because it was someone's last trip maybe they should have flown because with the weather there is no guarantee they'd make it to that port on a cruise. Even with missing the port these 2000 people had a cruise to enjoy. If one port is going to make or break your cruise fly there.

 

Yeah, they had a cruise to enjoy until someone ruined it for them.

 

Yeah, ruined. They turned a lazy, stress-free cruise into something else entirely. They re-routed 2000 people's journey, forever changing the experience they had saved for, planned for and hoped for.

 

So who is selfish?

 

The 2000 people who did NOTHING and merely wanted to enjoy their cruise, or the ONE person who decided for whatever reason to change all of that because he wanted to act the fool?

[gliner]

Why is it that when one person tires of a thread instead of just leaving it they feel everyone else should leave it too?

 

Liberalism.

[what to go here and there]

Never a dull moment on cruises. We had a murder on the Liberty in 2010. It was hushed up and little information came out.

 

There was an emergency call in the AM. Rumors went all over the ship. Everything from a woman suffering a stroke to her husband killing her.

 

We were delayed from disembarking for 2 hours.

 

The FBI came on board and the cabin was taped off with "Do Not Cross" tape. Hardly what you would expect from a mere medical emergency.

 

It was only as we were about to cast off from St. Thomas, and the FBI left the ship with a man in handcuffs did it become blatantly apparent that a crime had been committed.

 

 

 

The "official" line?

 

It was a "medical emergency."

 

It was not a medical emegerency I can assure you that,,,

 

I was on board when that happended and a few from the group i was travelling with were asked questions by the FBI. Thier were rooms were very close to where this happened.

 

You missed the scene the next day when the whole hallway was blocked and they completely gutted that room.

 

the whole story was in the ST thomas newspaper as that is where the trial took place... The man they took away is in a very small room for a very very long time.

[aurelius180]

Technically it was a medical emergency.

 

A "medical emergency" caused by the actions of another.

 

A man jumping overboard could be termed a "medical emergency" too in that hitting the water from 87 feet is very likely to result in injuries requiring medical attention.

 

 

It was a joke. :)

[klfhngr]

It was a joke. :)

 

A joke?! You should be ashamed of yourself, someone died!!! A JOKE?!! jk! now that was a joke! ;)

[spoiledkraut]

Yeah, they had a cruise to enjoy until someone ruined it for them.

 

Yeah, ruined. They turned a lazy, stress-free cruise into something else entirely. They re-routed 2000 people's journey, forever changing the experience they had saved for, planned for and hoped for.

 

So who is selfish?

 

The 2000 people who did NOTHING and merely wanted to enjoy their cruise, or the ONE person who decided for whatever reason to change all of that because he wanted to act the fool?

 

 

So next time you book a cruise, be advised that this CAN happen! It happened in the past and it will happen in the future! So maybe you should spend your money on something else instead of a cruise!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[travler27]

Might make more sense for the next person who plans to jump to use a bridge instead of a cruise ship.

[gliner]

So next time you book a cruise, be advised that this CAN happen! It happened in the past and it will happen in the future! So maybe you should spend your money on something else instead of a cruise!

 

I am very well aware of the chance that things can happen on a cruise.

 

As I set sail tomorrow, I will be thinking of just that......nah, I won't be.

[tpiper55]

Please never jump off of a ship I am on. You want to kill yourself, do it somewhere it will not impact other people.

 

You can kill yourself if you want because I am a firm believer in personal choice, but you do not have a right to impact other people with your choice.

 

Where are the bleeding hearts in support of the SUSPECT in other cases that involved mental instability? When someone murders in cold blood, or commits HORRIBLE sexual acts, or animal cruelty... ummm, NORMAL people don't do those things. But in those cases we ALWAYS empathize with the victims (as we SHOULD) and cry for the public hanging, castration, and humiliation of the perp. Why in this case, without even knowing WHAT he did, is everyone giving him a 'pass' of "....ohhh, he was mentally unstable...". So if as the story unfolds, we find out that he did something unspeakable, will his 'mentally unstable' pass be withdrawn?

 

It appears that some here seem to think there were no victims (or perhaps the other cruisers don't fit your description of a victim), or some of you may even see HIM as the victim - but in my eyes, he was the PERPETRATOR and his actions impacted thousands of others. Why do we pick and choose when someone gets to use mental illness as an escape?:confused::confused::confused:

[DragonMouse]

This post like a soap opera...

 

I'm sorry the guy died...I don't like to see anyone "die". I would have much preferred to catch him, fish him out of the water, kick his keester and fine him for everyone on the ship.

 

He was apparently "marinated"...being in the military was just a "sensation" line. I know it's hard to accept but there ARE people in the military who do really STUPID things and it has absolutely NOTHING to do with battle fatigue or anything else. Him being in the military had nothing to do with his "darwinism". It doesn't look like he "intended" to die...it was all a case of poor and selfish judgement.

[HMH G]

It doesnt matter really... life is lost, family and friends are in pain.. loss of a couple of hours at a port, when someone has lost their life, for whatever reason, is something everyone can get over. It is coldhearted people that are selfish... "oh I missed a couple of hours in Key West... poor poor me.. screw the man and his family"... really?? It sickens me that something as trivial as a couple of hours lost on vacation turns people into coldhearted selfish insensitive jerks.

 

 

I'm sorry but I totally disagree.

 

While it is a sad situation and I can feel for the family, there are so many people on board whose vacation was ruined. And no, I don't mean those people on their 59th cruise who will just rebook next month to see the missed port. I'm talking about the family that saves money for years to take their only vacation. Or the older couple on their last trip together. Whatever the reason most people work extremely hard for their money and their well deserved vacation time was tainted by this person's stupid and thoughtless decision. If this were a suicide it would obviously still put a damper on everyone's trip and tug and their heartstrings, but it sounds like this was NOT the situation.

 

Anyway say what you will about "coldhearted selfish insensitive jerks that missed a couple of hours in Key West" but it is possible to have compassion for the loss of life and still be utterly upset by the situation that ruined their cruise.

[Smart Arsenal Fan]

Liberalism.

 

Isn't that more Conservatism? ;)

[aurelius180]

Where are the bleeding hearts in support of the SUSPECT in other cases that involved mental instability? When someone murders in cold blood, or commits HORRIBLE sexual acts, or animal cruelty... ummm, NORMAL people don't do those things. But in those cases we ALWAYS empathize with the victims (as we SHOULD) and cry for the public hanging, castration, and humiliation of the perp. Why in this case, without even knowing WHAT he did, is everyone giving him a 'pass' of "....ohhh, he was mentally unstable...". So if as the story unfolds, we find out that he did something unspeakable, will his 'mentally unstable' pass be withdrawn?

 

It appears that some here seem to think there were no victims (or perhaps the other cruisers don't fit your description of a victim), or some of you may even see HIM as the victim - but in my eyes, he was the PERPETRATOR and his actions impacted thousands of others. Why do we pick and choose when someone gets to use mental illness as an escape?:confused::confused::confused:

 

 

It's also been implied in the CC news story that a 31-year old male Army Sergeant entered a crew-only area of the ship where "he was confronted by a female crewmember, who told him to leave. A physical confrontation ensued..." All the facts are not yet known, which has not stopped many from giving this guy a pass for actions due to a condition he very well may not have and is yet to be mentioned in any news story as a possibility, but what happened during his confrontation with a female crew-member?

 

Also, I believe PTSD is a very real condition but the actions of this individual, as yet reported, do not seem to correlate with an episode. He didn't just decide to jump overboard due to depression or sudden anxiety. He did so to elude capture.

 

The guy got drunk, entered into an area of the ship he was not supposed to be in, got into an altercation with the crew, was pepper-sprayed by security, ran from security to avoid detention, jumped over the railing of one deck and after being successful with the first jump he grabbed a life-ring and jumped over a second railing into the water. These are actions that played out over a period of time and was not just an instantaneous event.

 

While many of us would consider jumping overboard an irrational act, grabbing a life-ring before doing so would hint at some rational thought. While alcohol can be blamed for much of his initial actions, pepper-spray and running and jumping trying to elude security would provide some sobering effects. Perhaps during this time of lucidity he realized he was in trouble, even to the extent of jeopordizing his military career and tried to get away. Criminals do stupid things all the time trying to evade capture...they're only thinking one-step ahead and not 10.

 

Everyone is assuming PTSD or some other combat-related effect caused him to act the way he did. Maybe he just got himself into a situation that jeopardized his career. :cool: