Fascination Man Overboard 8-27-12? (MERGED THREADS)

[johneeo]

Isn't that more Conservatism? ;)

 

I look at it like we are all too stupid to just ignore this thread.

 

Therefore, we need to be protected from our own stupidity.

 

"I hate this thread so someone should shut it down because I am too stupid to just ignore it".

 

Just like big government having to make all of our decisions, take care of our needs from cradle to grave, and protect us from ourselves, the moderators on CC need to protect us similarly.

 

And that to me is liberalism.

[deanswife1990]

i look at it like we are all too stupid to just ignore this thread.

 

Therefore, we need to be protected from our own stupidity.

 

"i hate this thread so someone should shut it down because i am too stupid to just ignore it".

 

just like big government having to make all of our decisions, take care of our needs from cradle to grave, and protect us from ourselves, the moderators on cc need to protect us similarly.

 

And that to me is liberalism.

 

love it!!!!

[gliner]

Isn't that more Conservatism? ;)

 

Nope.

 

If a conservative does not like something, he avoids it.

 

If a liberal does not like something, they feel that no one should have it.

[gliner]

It was not a medical emegerency I can assure you that,,,

 

I was on board when that happended and a few from the group i was travelling with were asked questions by the FBI. Thier were rooms were very close to where this happened.

 

You missed the scene the next day when the whole hallway was blocked and they completely gutted that room.

 

the whole story was in the ST thomas newspaper as that is where the trial took place... The man they took away is in a very small room for a very very long time.

 

And the official line from Carnival?

 

It was a "medical emergency."

 

They have a brand to protect I know, but only an extreme cynic could hold them responsible for the actions of another.

[tpiper55]

It's also been implied in the CC news story that a 31-year old male Army Sergeant entered a crew-only area of the ship where "he was confronted by a female crewmember, who told him to leave. A physical confrontation ensued..." All the facts are not yet known, which has not stopped many from giving this guy a pass for actions due to a condition he very well may not have and is yet to be mentioned in any news story as a possibility, but what happened during his confrontation with a female crew-member?

 

...

RIGHT!!!! That's exactly where I was going. notwithstanding the fact that he CHOSE to jump (and made a very RATIONAL decision to grab a life SAVING device whild doing so)...if what you mentioned above was the only information available, we would be jumping to conclusions about what he might have DONE to the female crew member. There would be ZERO tolerance for his state of mind, the focus would be solely on WHAT.HE.DID.TO.THE.VICTIM. But since he may now be deceased, any actions, choices, and decisions on HIS PART are now inconsequential??? Still :confused::confused::confused:

 

Why am I not allowed to place my empathy with whom I perceive to be the victims in this case without being referred to as cold and uncaring?

[ThinkingWoman]

Carnival had to be tight lipped on that situation. There were lawsuits waiting to happen everywhere.

[gliner]

It was not a medical emegerency I can assure you that,,,

 

I was on board when that happended and a few from the group i was travelling with were asked questions by the FBI. Thier were rooms were very close to where this happened.

 

You missed the scene the next day when the whole hallway was blocked and they completely gutted that room.

 

the whole story was in the ST thomas newspaper as that is where the trial took place... The man they took away is in a very small room for a very very long time.

 

I saw the carpet being carried down to the lower decks. They did replace everything in that cabin for sure.

 

I cannot find any information about it. Have you seen a link to the story?

[aurelius180]

I saw the carpet being carried down to the lower decks. They did replace everything in that cabin for sure.

 

I cannot find any information about it. Have you seen a link to the story?

 

 

Here's some information: http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2010/11/articles/maritime-death/death-on-a-fun-ship-what-really-happened-on-the-carnival-liberty/

[gliner]

Here's some information: http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2010/11/articles/maritime-death/death-on-a-fun-ship-what-really-happened-on-the-carnival-liberty/

 

I've seen that one. Posted on it too.

[nodogkisses]

I look at it like we are all too stupid to just ignore this thread.

 

Therefore, we need to be protected from our own stupidity.

 

"I hate this thread so someone should shut it down because I am too stupid to just ignore it".

 

Just like big government having to make all of our decisions, take care of our needs from cradle to grave, and protect us from ourselves, the moderators on CC need to protect us similarly.

 

And that to me is liberalism.

 

 

Couldn't have said it better!

[Mikel1733]

It was not a medical emegerency I can assure you that,,,

 

I was on board when that happended and a few from the group i was travelling with were asked questions by the FBI. Thier were rooms were very close to where this happened.

 

You missed the scene the next day when the whole hallway was blocked and they completely gutted that room.

 

the whole story was in the ST thomas newspaper as that is where the trial took place... The man they took away is in a very small room for a very very long time.

 

I guess its all in perspective, after all haven't we been told over and over that "a day cruising is always better than a day at work"

[gliner]

RIGHT!!!! That's exactly where I was going. notwithstanding the fact that he CHOSE to jump (and made a very RATIONAL decision to grab a life SAVING device whild doing so)...if what you mentioned above was the only information available, we would be jumping to conclusions about what he might have DONE to the female crew member. There would be ZERO tolerance for his state of mind, the focus would be solely on WHAT.HE.DID.TO.THE.VICTIM. But since he may now be deceased, any actions, choices, and decisions on HIS PART are now inconsequential??? Still :confused::confused::confused:

 

Why am I not allowed to place my empathy with whom I perceive to be the victims in this case without being referred to as cold and uncaring?

 

Well stated. There are victims and there are "victims."

[cruisnhillbilly]

one of my first thoughts when i first learned of this, was that i pray no children witnessed this man falling past their window or balcony. the mental effect on them could be devastating.

 

and before you say anything about the hour that it happened, kids are up all hours of the night. mine will set in the window watching the water when they can't sleep.

 

my thoughts and prayers go out to his family and friends and all the passengers

[halos]

Well stated. There are victims and there are "victims."

 

:rolleyes: We know absolutely NOTHING about this man or his health history/status or what really happened on that ship. All these accusations are nothing more than conjecture.

All we do know is he jumped and he's dead.

[tahqa]

:rolleyes: We know absolutely NOTHING about this man or his health history/status or what really happened on that ship. All these accusations are nothing more than conjecture.

All we do know is he jumped and he's dead.

 

Well, we also know that he was drunk, in a crew-member only area, requested to leave by a female crew member, refused to leave, chased by security guards, and jumped over a railing twice to evade said security. We assume he's dead. :rolleyes:

[Cruisegirl6]

The way I see it there is more to this story...I like to hear exactly what did happen between his "confrontation" with the woman employee and he...there is a piece or two missing to this story.

 

He obviously was in his right frame of mind when he grabbed the life preserver and jumped overboard, it seems to me that he did something that was wrong as a result he had to flee from the security officer...his only way of not getting caught or perhaps knowing his career was on the line was to get away in hopes nobody identify him so he jumped overboard. Also military personnel are trained to act on situations so I feel he knew exactly what he was doing. There are cameras that I am positive caught it all and e are not getting all the information about everything and not sure if we ever would.

 

It appears to me he was not traveling with family, because the news articles the past few days stated that they were trying to contact the family....they would not say that if the family were right there unless it was used as a stall tactic on Carnival to hold information to the public.

 

For those who say he ruined everybody's cruise shame on you!

 

1- He is a military officer served our country and still was....

2- I know if I were on that cruise my only concern was that he be found and alive I wouldn't care about Key West for a few hours.

3- These things happen everywhere all types of situation, plane cancellations and delays, trains derail, planes have issues, cars break down, emergencies happen, we just need to know its part of life and there is no way to avoid such things...so deal with it. Stressing that one's vacation is ruined is totally heartless, a situation happened a man died, something happened, his family is hearbroken, and your worried about a few hours in Key West? Im sorry thats plain heartless!

[Smart Arsenal Fan]

I look at it like we are all too stupid to just ignore this thread.

 

Therefore, we need to be protected from our own stupidity.

 

"I hate this thread so someone should shut it down because I am too stupid to just ignore it".

 

Just like big government having to make all of our decisions, take care of our needs from cradle to grave, and protect us from ourselves, the moderators on CC need to protect us similarly.

 

And that to me is liberalism.

 

I can see totally that. In some ways. Agreed.

 

And others, ie, "my morals, my beliefs, need to be yours!" "I don't like this thread (gay marriage, et al), so you shouldn't either!"

And that to me is Conservatism.

:)

 

Best Regards,

Neither.

 

Ok, back to the fighting... lol

[ilovetexas]

Please allow me, for a moment, to remove the cruising aspect of this in order to provide a little clarity to those of you who are having trouble agreeing on how we should feel about this situation.

 

I live just outside ATL and go to school in downtown ATL; suffice to say that horrible traffic is commonplace. Two days ago, we had a wrong way driver killed on I-85 that shut down the freeway for hours. For those of you unfamiliar, I-85 is a major north/south highway in the Eastern US that runs from VA to AL.

 

Initially, when you hear wrong way driver, you think of someone who is elderly and/or confused. Even most drunks can at least locate the correct side of the interstate. When the first assumption is that the accident was a result of advanced age/confusion or something like that, one typically doesn't think about the hours spent sitting on the interstate; the first thoughts are "how horrible that someone died and others are injured". Then, when you hear that it was someone who had just stolen something and was evading the police, you end up pissed off about the hours spent sitting on the interstate, not caring so much about the loss of the perpetrator's life, and caring a LOT about the innocents injured and killed.

 

How about our other wrong way driver that was self administering Propofol? In addition to killing herself, she sent two people to a hospital with critical injuries. One of them was a 12 year old child.

 

http://www.wsbradio.com/news/news/local/wrong-way-driver-running-from-police/nRPjd/

 

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/wrong-way-driver-killed-on-i-85/nRN44/

 

Those of you inclined to think that vacations aren't as important as one's life have a valid point, but you need to be aware that the motives behind the actions of others weigh heavily on public perception. If my cruise were shortened or changed by someone committing suicide intentionally, I would be disappointed about my vacation and sad for the person. If my cruise were shortened or changed by someone who was drunk, unruly and evading security after assaulting someone, I would be PISSED!

[CELTICGIRLCRUISER]

 

Those of you inclined to think that vacations aren't as important as one's life have a valid point, but you need to be aware that the motives behind the actions of others weigh heavily on public perception. If my cruise were shortened or changed by someone committing suicide intentionally, I would be disappointed about my vacation and sad for the person. If my cruise were shortened or changed by someone who was drunk, unruly and evading security after assaulting someone, I would be PISSED!

 

I find myself nodding in agreement reading this.

[GraNanny]

I saw this comment in response to the Cruise Law article.

 

"I knew kemp personally as well and had many wild party nights with him. The cruise ship should tell the damn truth and not make up a cover story. Suicide would never enter kemp's mind as a solution to anything. The PR sullied his name and dishonors his memory by spreading such deliberate lies. You burden his family with the constant battle of always wondering why he did it. He didnt do it. They need to rectify it by apologizing and telling the actual story. A wild chase ending in tragedy sounds much more kemp like than suicide. ----SSG Smith"

 

Another thought; the person who's parents are on board said they were told the guy was fighting with his girlfriend. Makes me wonder if the female crew member was his girlfriend?

[halos]

Well, we also know that he was drunk, in a crew-member only area, requested to leave by a female crew member, refused to leave, chased by security guards, and jumped over a railing twice to evade said security. We assume he's dead. :rolleyes:

 

and all of what you have read makes you or anyone know where his head was or what was wrong with him?:rolleyes:

 

 

 

He obviously was in his right frame of mind when he grabbed the life preserver and jumped overboard, !

 

 

 

You seriously think that just because he grabbed the life ring that his mind was stable??????????

 

to the public.

 

 

 

For those who say he ruined everybody's cruise shame on you!

 

 

 

!

 

 

 

Ummm...their cruise was ruined. When someone dies on your ship it tends to put a damper on your vacation.

[tahqa]

and all of what you have read makes you or anyone know where his head was or what was wrong with him?:rolleyes:

 

I didn't make any assertions as to where his head was. I was just rebutting your comment of "All we do know is he jumped and he's dead.". If we are to believe the reports then we do, indeed, know a bit more than that. :rolleyes:

 

 

But please grant me that the act of grabbing the life-ring is the act of a person that does not want to die. Will you give me that much? :D

[Cruisegirl6]

Halos absolutley he didn't want to die or didn't commit suicide, if one wanted to die or commit suicide they just jump overboard and not think of bringing something to help them stay afloat in the water. Obviously he was not thinking rationally or not have any time in his head to think before acting.

Still pieces to this story missing to actually see the truth, just my opinion.

 

Yes, when somebody dies it does put a damper we were on a ship two years ago and we got to speak to this guy well...he had a heart attack and not sure what happened to him because nobody would tell us. It bothered us. But people whine they missed few hours in key west get over it things happen your still on the cruise and your days were not cut short.

[celticd1]

I can see totally that. In some ways. Agreed.

 

And others, ie, "my morals, my beliefs, need to be yours!" "I don't like this thread (gay marriage, et al), so you shouldn't either!"

And that to me is Conservatism.

:)

 

Best Regards,

Neither.

 

Ok, back to the fighting... lol

 

*golf clap*

[halos]

Halos absolutley he didn't want to die or didn't commit suicide, if one wanted to die or commit suicide they just jump overboard and not think of bringing something to help them stay afloat in the water. Obviously he was not thinking rationally or not have any time in his head to think before acting.

Still pieces to this story missing to actually see the truth, just my opinion.

 

Yes, when somebody dies it does put a damper we were on a ship two years ago and we got to speak to this guy well...he had a heart attack and not sure what happened to him because nobody would tell us. It bothered us. But people whine they missed few hours in key west get over it things happen your still on the cruise and your days were not cut short.

 

absolutely agree...especially that he wasn't thinking rationally.

 

I

 

 

 

But please grant me that the act of grabbing the life-ring is the act of a person that does not want to die. Will you give me that much?

 

 

 

absolutely :) ...but I still think he was not in his right mind when he jumped...life ring or not. That is not a sane thing to do.