The decline of “traditional” dining

[swedish weave]

I don't disagree that small amounts add up. I guess what really bothers me is everything has an additional charge. If you pick one of say 6 or 7 of these cutback items and leave it alone it may make a world of difference in the long run

 

Trying to get back on topic, the most common belief about the luxury or pleasure of a cruise is the food. Once you take it away, and start charging for it, everything else seems like nickle and diming, and for us "old" timers takes away from the overall splender of the vacation.

 

I would suggest rather than complaining about the costs of a cruise line that is trying to maintain a product that suits the masses, you should consider booking a cruise line that provides what you want.

 

Of course, they can't do that at the prices NCL is charging, so pay the premium and get the splendor you are seeking.

[SnorkelBabe]

Correct. It's easy to see, in the example it says Net Income 2.0 Billion, Onboard Income: 3.4 Billion.

 

All of the costs are in play whether anyone boards or not. If everyone decided to boycott cruises after they'd paid their fare, they would have a loss of 1.4 Billion. Yes, oversimplified because they'd terminate staff and not buy food if they could see no one was going to sail, but it's still valid. They have to assume everyone who bought a ticket would be onboard, and if they sailed with no passengers even though the ticket was fully paid, they would lose 1.4 B.

Thanks for saving me some typing. As a CPA, the inclusion of the on-board income while claiming the net income was "before it even sails", was making my head spin. :)

 

You wouldn't even have to have passengers boycott the cruise to lose on a sailing. If all those passengers paid their fare, boarded, booked excursions directly with vendors in port, drank only tap water and iced tea, ate in the MDR and buffet, and stayed out of the gift shops and casinos, the net would be a loss. While that scenario is pretty far-fetched for many passengers, it's not for others.

[SuiteCruiser]

Thanks for saving me some typing. As a CPA, the inclusion of the on-board income while claiming the net income was "before it even sails", was making my head spin. :)

 

You wouldn't even have to have passengers boycott the cruise to lose on a sailing. If all those passengers paid their fare, boarded, booked excursions directly with vendors in port, drank only tap water and iced tea, ate in the MDR and buffet, and stayed out of the gift shops and casinos, the net would be a loss. While that scenario is pretty far-fetched for many passengers, it's not for others.

 

Accountants unite :)

[bjlaac]

Correct. It's easy to see, in the example it says Net Income 2.0 Billion, Onboard Income: 3.4 Billion.

 

All of the costs are in play whether anyone boards or not. If everyone decided to boycott cruises after they'd paid their fare, they would have a loss of 1.4 Billion. Yes, oversimplified because they'd terminate staff and not buy food if they could see no one was going to sail, but it's still valid. They have to assume everyone who bought a ticket would be onboard, and if they sailed with no passengers even though the ticket was fully paid, they would lose 1.4 B.

 

How silly is that now, why would an entire group pay for a cruise and boycott the trip. We could go back and forth forever and its basically what you want to believe. But if yoyu include all the expenses then you need to include all of the revenue including the $3.4 billion which I believe comes form drinks and merchndise sales, not pay for dining.

 

The pay for dining makes up a small part of it. Unfortunately, I don't know for sure so the debate goes on.

[halos]

An exquisite dinner out costs me more than an entire day on a ship...by a lot. This is why I don't mind one little bit paying to eat at the optional dining venues. The food in the main dining rooms isn't horrible by any means so we eat there as well. It's nice to have the options.

 

I truly believe in order to have the cruise dining experience that 'once was', you have to sail one of the luxury lines. Look, you get what you pay for.

 

I think what I spend just to buy food at my supermarket and cook it myself is astronomical these days. There is no way I will ever complain about spending an extra bit of money to eat at LeBsitro, Cagneys or any other surcharge dining room on NCL. It would be insane to do so.

 

signed,

A cruise 'Old Timer'

[sparks1093]

How silly is that now, why would an entire group pay for a cruise and boycott the trip. We could go back and forth forever and its basically what you want to believe. But if yoyu include all the expenses then you need to include all of the revenue including the $3.4 billion which I believe comes form drinks and merchndise sales, not pay for dining.

 

The pay for dining makes up a small part of it. Unfortunately, I don't know for sure so the debate goes on.

 

In "Cruise Inc.- Finance on the High Seas" NCL stated that every ship could sail at capacity (110%) and they still wouldn't turn a profit for that cruise unless each passenger spent $x with bar services per day. The numbers you cite above are for a completely different company that happens to own at least a third of the cruise industry (if not more).

 

I believe what happened is the mainstream cruise lines had to make cuts when the economy tanked and when they did they found something interesting- while some passengers didn't like the cuts most passengers either didn't care or didn't notice. Those that did care were vocal about it for a bit, but most of them continued to cruise in spite of it all. Yes, a few passengers went to a different cruise line in protest, but of course that line had made similar cuts and had a similar number of passengers "jumping ship" so it all equalled out in the end.

[bjlaac]

I would suggest rather than complaining about the costs of a cruise line that is trying to maintain a product that suits the masses, you should consider booking a cruise line that provides what you want.

 

Of course, they can't do that at the prices NCL is charging, so pay the premium and get the splendor you are seeking.

 

At the risk of prolonging this debate for one more day I couldn't pass your last post without makng a final comment. Where did I complain about the cost of a cruise? I was only talking about the decline of the main dining room food on NCL and my opinion on what it might take to reverse it. And, for as little as $5 or so per day could buy a better quality of food for each passenger whether it be Steak, Fish, Lobster or Pork. They are already preparing food for everyone on board, any added cost should minimal.

 

Look at what's been written in this thread. Everything from service being lousy to food on par with TV dinners. I've been cruising for 30+ years, with my last cruise this past May and I can tell you I never had reason to complain about the quality of food in any main dinning room on any cruise line.

 

I'll be on NCL shortly and expect the MDR food to be on par with CCL, RCL, Holland America and so on. If its not, then I don't need anyone to tell me to find another line, I'll be gone long before that.

[DaisyGoldberg]

I only eat at one or two specialty restaurants during a week's cruise (between tours and trying to get to a show, it's a time matter as much as anything else), but honestly, at $25/night for the most expensive option, every night of the week, that's still only $175 "extra" per person for the whole week.

 

Don't get me wrong, $175 is not an insignificant amount of money to me. But considering that I spent only $200 more for my half of a balcony on the Pride of America last summer than I did for my half of an oceanview on my first cruise on the Seaward in 1991 (Caribbean), the price of cruising has dropped a LOT in the last 20 years. To have a balcony and 7 nights dining of the same quality as before for less than $400 more than I spent 20 years ago is NOT a worse deal. Especially since I have the option to tailor my dining choices to make it even more of a bargain.

 

Next fall I'll be in my first suite -- for only $400 more than I spent on that first ocean view room. I'll check back in afterward if I feel that I overpaid compared to 1991 :)

[SuiteCruiser]

 

They are not stupid, every ship leaves port with more than a breakeven including capital costs. Everything else is gravey.

 

I've said enough, but use your brain and realize cutting service isn't making up for price differentials. To restore the service bake to what it was could be done on less than $100 per person per week

 

This is what we are talking about. You said that they are leaving port breaking even. Now you're saying you were only talking about extra revenue from pay for dining, but I've quoted your post. That is what we've all been trying to explain.

 

We have shown you that the ship does not leave port at a break even. I even provided financials from NCL and my little example of people boycotting was to explain things in laymen's terms. Everyone else seems to get it, I agree, let's move on, as facts don't seem to be something you're interested in.

[bjlaac]

This is what we are talking about. You said that they are leaving port breaking even. Now you're saying you were only talking about extra revenue from pay for dining, but I've quoted your post. That is what we've all been trying to explain.

 

We have shown you that the ship does not leave port at a break even. I even provided financials from NCL and my little example of people boycotting was to explain things in laymen's terms. Everyone else seems to get it, I agree, let's move on, as facts don't seem to be something you're interested in.

 

I don't agree with you, but you are right its time to move on. Nothing like a good hardy discussion about cruising if you can't be on one.

 

Take care and keep on cruising

[luddite]

There is nothing like a good hearty discussion.

 

I'm thinking that cruise company profits aren't as .... positive as some might believe.

[newmexicoNita]

What you have said here may come the closest to the real issue. It may be just the changing of times.

 

Long time cruisers (I'll avoid call you "old" timers) have an idea of what cruising used to be and may not want the change. Still want it to feel like at least 4* dining, even though the ships have grown way to big IMO to have anything in their main dining room that could be prepared for that many passengers and still meet that. Even if they bought the expensive lobster, I doubt they could serve it like a small quaint 4* or 5* could just because it would be cooked in bulk.

 

New cruisers like myself, may not care about the 4* dining feeling as long as they can find food they enjoy to eat. And love the choice of paying an additional cost to tailor their vacation around their own desires. I would prefer to pay the $10 if I wish to have lobster, but DH on the other hand prefers not to have to pay more for Joe Blow to have lobster when he doesn't eat it. I really do love NCL a la carte options and so happy they have so many things that I can choose from.

you are so right, there was a time when cruising meant gourmet melas, everyone dressed to the hilt every night and pampering from morning til night. It was designed for people over 50 in the upper middle class and upper class group..Today, cruising can be what you want it to be: it can be formal, if you choose a more formal line, it can be family friendly if you choose a mass marketed mid range line and it can be perfect for people with little money who want to get away for a few days, but rarely is the main dining room going to be 4 star..we all have to learn to enjoy changes.

[newmexicoNita]

I don't disagree that small amounts add up. I guess what really bothers me is everything has an additional charge. If you pick one of say 6 or 7 of these cutback items and leave it alone it may make a world of difference in the long run

 

Trying to get back on topic, the most common belief about the luxury or pleasure of a cruise is the food. Once you take it away, and start charging for it, everything else seems like nickle and diming, and for us "old" timers takes away from the overall splender of the vacation.

 

I have been cruising for about 30 years and we do not miss the old way. yes, it was wonderful but so are many of the new features. We don't mind paying a little extra for food either. We look at it this way: we just budget about $100 a person for specialty dining..

 

Cruising has changed, but for anyone who misses those little things some are referring to, get over it. So I don't get a choc mint at night, of I am not handed a 2 oz glass of champange when I get on the ship. my cruise will be just as good..I still see new ports (sometimes) I am with friends, I am able to enjoy all the activities, I still have someone cleaning up after me, I can use the fitness center, I have a choice of pools. These are not things we used to enjoy. We also have more dining options, without paying. I remember when eating meant the dining room or maybe a small outdoor grill type. Certainly not a huge buffet, a comfort food place for sandwhiche, an outdoor grill, a suishi bar etc..We give a little and get a lot in return.