The decline of “traditional” dining

[johnmpcny]

Thank you. You saved me so much typing. :D

 

OP it seems like you might happier taking the higher end higher priced lines. As for me, I don't care how good food might be if I have to eat it among forced company it's not a culinary experience I'm interested in.

 

I will do some of the pay and the chef's table. I guess what I am pointing out as bushiness do you take not note of the #1 complaint you get and improve it or do ignore it?

 

Not so much subjected food tastes here, when your own customers #1 complaint is about the food. Kind of like saying how did Romney lose? no one I know voted for him! yes but far more people voted for the other guy.

 

Recall I posted this from both Conde Nast and CC. So no matter how many of us like it, a large number do not, in fact the highest of all issues on the whole board not just NCL.

 

http://www.cntraveler.com/daily-trav...rovements-2013

 

"Norwegian Cruise Line, home of the “freestyle” concept in which ships feature numerous dining options, most of which levy extra fees, has also earned brickbats from Cruise Critic readers for letting quality lapse in the main restaurants."

 

"the biggest complaint we get at Cruise Critic these days is the disintegration of the main dining room venue. Once the pinnacle of cruise dining—and an option that is always fee-free—the main restaurant typically was your table-away-from-home. Fabulous features included adventurous menus and intimate service by waiters who remembered your name, drink, and favorite grandchild’s middle name. But with more emphasis being placed on additional-fee specialty eateries, quality in these venues, by many reports, has sunk to new lows."

[weltek]

In a short 10 years of cruising NCL, I think the FOOD has gone downhill only slightly. I read my notes and reviews from other sites 10 years ago, and it's not so much different than now. That was all during Freestyle, though. I don't know what NCL was like before Freestyle.

 

I do think there may be some service challenges and quality control challenges that NCL has struggled with in the MDR over the years. I'm not sure what the root cause is, but I do hope they address this. These are things that don't raise the food cost, but may require an investment in staff training or additional staffing.

 

MDR service and quality hasn't been an issue for me 85% of the time on NCL, but there have been enough complaints that it simply cannot be ignored.

[xenagurl]

I see what you're saying OP. My personal thought on this is that the majority of this type might be coming from customers that to put it delicately (I'm not trying to offend) might be on the decline?

 

If they're putting a lot of effort in bringing in a new customer demographic that doesn't recall what the food once was like (such as myself) then perhaps economically they don't feel that it's feasible to go back to the type of quality or style that they used to put out 20 or 30 years ago. Especially since they're an inexpensive line.

 

I could be off base, but it might be at least part of the reason.

 

I will do some of the pay and the chef's table. I guess what I am pointing out as bushiness do you take not note of the #1 complaint you get or do ignore it?

 

 

 

http://www.cntraveler.com/daily-trav...rovements-2013

 

"Norwegian Cruise Line, home of the “freestyle” concept in which ships feature numerous dining options, most of which levy extra fees, has also earned brickbats from Cruise Critic readers for letting quality lapse in the main restaurants."

 

"the biggest complaint we get at Cruise Critic these days is the disintegration of the main dining room venue. Once the pinnacle of cruise dining—and an option that is always fee-free—the main restaurant typically was your table-away-from-home. Fabulous features included adventurous menus and intimate service by waiters who remembered your name, drink, and favorite grandchild’s middle name. But with more emphasis being placed on additional-fee specialty eateries, quality in these venues, by many reports, has sunk to new lows."

[sparks1093]

"the biggest complaint we get at Cruise Critic these days is the disintegration of the main dining room venue. Once the pinnacle of cruise dining—and an option that is always fee-free—the main restaurant typically was your table-away-from-home. Fabulous features included adventurous menus and intimate service by waiters who remembered your name, drink, and favorite grandchild’s middle name. But with more emphasis being placed on additional-fee specialty eateries, quality in these venues, by many reports, has sunk to new lows."

 

That paragraph seems to pertain to other cruise lines with traditional dining.

 

From what I've read all of the mainstream lines have made cutbacks in the quality of their food and service.

[DCP]

We never waited for a table in the MDR, and usually always got a window seat too. No complaints about the food, I didn't have to make it, it is free, and I am on a SHIP on vacation....I just don't think it gets much better than that. Perspective I guess. :) (and can't wait, will be in our balcony room on the Pearl in 3 days!!)

[mikeriv79]

Coming from NYC, I don't expect NYC quality food on a cruise. It may be true that the fee based dining options have taken some of the quality out of the main dining rooms, but the lower quality could also be a result of the particular staff on a certain ship. My fiance and I sailed our 4th NCL cruise this past February on the Pearl. We thought the food was noticeably better than the previous 3 cruises. Regardless, we're satisfied with our dining experience on NCL.

[johnmpcny]

That maybe all true and it maybe all related to the well planned and thought out decision they are choosing to be the low cost trip.

 

I just do not think any business is being smart or responsible by not addressing the acknowledged number customer complaint.

 

Somethings do not cost much or anything. Better quality control, freshness of the meal to table timing. Small spice adjustments, waitstaff training and so on.

 

Every restaurant strives to improve these things, no matter at sea or on land. Some managers just plain a better job and that results from the same menu vs other locations in a higher quality food and lower costs at the same time. This is a real leadership message, do we accept being the best in our segment or just doing ok and focus on cutting costs.

[sparks1093]

That maybe all true and it maybe all related to the well planned and thought out decision they are choosing to be the low cost trip.

 

I just do not think any business is being smart or responsible by not addressing the acknowledged number customer complaint.

 

Somethings do not cost much or anything. Better quality control, freshness of the meal to table timing. Small spice adjustments, waitstaff training and so on.

 

Every restaurant strives to improve these things, no matter at sea or on land. Some managers just plain a better job and that results from the same menu vs other locations in a higher quality food and lower costs at the same time. This is a real leadership message, do we accept being the best in our segment or just doing ok and focus on cutting costs.

 

It may be the number one complaint but it does not appear that people are actually leaving NCL because of it, so as long as NCL can achieve their target profit margins they will probably continue with the same business model.

[slidergirl]

All of us pop into an Appleby's or a Chili's or even a (gag) Cheesecake Factory once in awhile for acceptable commodity food. I hit up my favorite hole-in-the-wall Mexican place once a week because it's good food. It's a casual atmosphere and cheap food.

But, in a large, formal dining room with white tablecloth service, to serve that same quality of food (even if we like the food in an informal setting) is akin to slapping lipstick on the pig. For me, that is the issue. The atmosphere no longer matches the cuisine. If the cruiseline wants to save money, they could also downscale the formality of the MDRs and indeed match the informality of the food with the ambience. No need for white tablecloths and uniforms would save laundry costs and the food would taste the same :D

[che5904]

That maybe all true and it maybe all related to the well planned and thought out decision they are choosing to be the low cost trip.

 

I just do not think any business is being smart or responsible by not addressing the acknowledged number customer complaint.

 

Somethings do not cost much or anything. Better quality control, freshness of the meal to table timing. Small spice adjustments, waitstaff training and so on.

 

Every restaurant strives to improve these things, no matter at sea or on land. Some managers just plain a better job and that results from the same menu vs other locations in a higher quality food and lower costs at the same time. This is a real leadership message, do we accept being the best in our segment or just doing ok and focus on cutting costs.

 

OK through a poll of 140 people and "their own ideas" they have decided this is the #1 complaint (I might add the difference was only about 2% between it and the internet). I would really think that NCL or any other cruiseline would most likely put more stock in what their actual surveys (sent after the cruise) tells them from customers who have actually cruised on their ship. What they based it on was "Ramp up service, food in main dining room", thats pretty vague on what the cruiselines should be fixing. And if you actually read the posts below the survey (at least the first 2 pages), it doesn't narrow down the "so called" problem.

 

And what makes you so sure these things are not being worked on by all lines. I know NCL did a revamp of their MDR menu not that long ago. Whether any changes they have put in place are satisfactory or not would only remain to be seen. As we know they have added flavored water on some of their ships to see if this is something their customers want. There is no company on this planet that shouldn't strive for improvement, as you can always do better. So I'm sure NCL is not sitting idle and is always looking for ways to improve.

 

It has been pointed out a few times on here that cruising costs are significantly lower than they were years ago and yet we all know cost of living certainly didn't go down. Setting aside the one hit wonders and taking note from those that have been here for a while the main complaints that i have read are things like the shrimp is too small, the lobster is not from Maine and the cuts of meat are not top quality. All of those things cost $$$$. Perhaps instead of starting this thread you should have did your own poll asking who is willing to pay $100s more to take their family on vacation to get huge shrimp, lobster from Maine and have expensive cuts of meat.

[roger001]

Ya want "5 star", then go pay for "5 star". Personally, I'll take NCL cruise prices any day and still have food of all types in a variety of settings constantly available, speciality restaurants available if I wish to pay the extra, and all of it very much to my liking. We've never done the olden days traditional dining...but really don't think we are missing anything. NCL...keep it like it is...and we're happy campers....uh...cruisers.

[esp13]

Others have already hit on this, but the issue isn't really a decline in the quality of dining, it's a complete change in the business model. Not that long ago (relatively speaking) cruising was a luxury for wealthy families. They paid a large sum of money and got royal treatment/food in exchange.

 

Then, gradually, cruising became a more mass market enterprise. To make the cruise affordable for more people, things had to change. Whether that was smaller cabins, less person-person service, or, yes, food quality.

 

The move to fee-based restaurants is simply the next step in the idea of "you get what you pay for." If you want to take a cruise at the cheapest price, then you get what you pay for. Many people do this and, judging from various reviews, don't mind the trade-off a bit. They still get a cruise, food, activities, etc., for a price they can afford. Others choose to pay more for a suite, or for a spa pass, or for dining in restaurants. Personally, I like the fact that I have more choices based on what is important to me. Food is not a huge thing, so I can choose to eat at the included venues and spend my money other things (excursions, gambling, alcohol).

 

It's very similar to what is now going on in the airplane industry. What a dirt cheap flight, you can get one (again, relatively speaking) but you won't get complimentary soft drink or snack or boarding privileges or, apparently, even blankets and pillow. It's up to me to decide what I can live with (or can't live without). I can't say I always love it, but ultimately, it's my choice.

 

I've been on several cruises and I've never found the food to be less than acceptable in quality. If gourmet dining is a priority, then you should do some research or enlist a travel agent to find the cruise line that best suits your needs. Same with anything else. I cruise Norwegian because I love the freestyle concept, the more casual atmosphere, the service, and the price.

 

I'm quite certain NCL has heard the complaints, but I'm guessing they've also done their research and have found that people wouldn't pay more for better food. That is, they'd lose more customers by increasing the price than they would gain by getting rave food reviews. It's a business decision as most things tend to be. And, as long as it remains a profitable business decision, I doubt all the complaining in the world will change things.

[sdmike]

I'm happy with nearly any place that feeds me decent food without me cooking it or cleaning up afterwards. :) I've always found something I've liked at the MDRs, but to be honest I don't each there much. On a 7 day trip I might eat breakfast or lunch maybe once in a dining room (usually the buffet), and maybe half of the dinners.

 

I will echo some others. Over the last several years we see a move towards more ala carte services across many industries. It's about segmenting your customer base. If everyone on a cruise ship expected five star meals, providing this as part of your standard (higher) fare makes a lot of sense. However, what lines are likely finding is that most don't need that level of quality, and it doesn't make sense to "over deliver" to that group. Instead, deliver quality that's fine for the majority, but provide options for those that want higher quality. This allows them to keep costs and prices lower than if they delivered 5* quality to the entire ship. As stated, the airlines are moving this way in a huge way. Ryan Air charges for almost everything (the came up just short of charging to use the restroom on a flight). More airlines are charging for even basic meals and amenities. I don't mind it, really, because I don't need most of that stuff and really don't want to pay for it.

[lexanna02]

We just got off the NCL Star last Sunday, and I must say that the food, especially in the "free" venues, was by far the best we've ever had on a cruise! Kudos to the chefs on the Star! Of course, we have only been on 4 cruises, but our whole group of 13 was quite pleased with everything they ate. Even those who dined in Paris in February, complimented the chefs!

[medicalma'am]

I agree with SDMIKE. I can always find something I like, whether it be in the buffet, main dining rooms or a specialty. I have always had good service and love talking with the wait staff to learn of their home country, and their family. Its not all about me!

 

We almost went on a cruise 26 years ago but did not. It was a HUGE cost to us then and I remember it being about what you pay now for an inside cabin (which is what we were going to book). Back then, cruising was 'new' to 'regular' folks like us. I think the show the LOVE BOAT had a lot to do with promoting cruising.

 

I am very happy with the food I have been served and cannot wait to experience Cagney's on our next cruise, because we are in a suite for the first time!

[trish1c]

I have always thought that most of the food in the MDR on most of my cruises, NCL & others, was fine. I don't think the speciality restaurants are worth it though. Some of the worst food I have ever had on a cruise ship was served to me in a so called speciality restaurant.

If I want a fantastic meal I'll go to a land based 4-5 star venue in a food city -- NYC, LA, Chicago, London, etc. I don't expect to find it on a cruise ship, not at that price point.

For example, in the Spring of 2011 my family & I took a great cruise. Our OV cabin was $376 pp for a 7 day trip. On black Friday 5 people went out for an awesome dinner in NYC & the bill was over $600 because we ate in a cheap place rather than our original choice where entree prices started at $52. There's just no way a cruise ship can compete with that level of excellence.

Even with freestyle dining, if you ask for the same waiter each night (or ask to sit in the same person's section in a restaurant on land) you will still be greeted by name & the server will remember your favorite beverage. It's not a big deal. If you want to meet new people for dinner, ask for a table to share. It's really the best of both world IMHO.

A waiter on a Princess cruise told me he thinks traditional dining will be gone altogether soon because while people here on CC may long for the good old days, most cruisers want freestyle, any time, my time, whatever you want to call it.

[hondorner]

If you want absolutely great food, fabulous choices in the Main Dining Room, lobster tails grilled to order every night in the buffet, and no-fee specialty resttaurants, sail on Oceania, especially their new ships Marina and Riviera, which have 4 no-fee specialty restaurants. You can even get a surf and turf sandwich (small filet and sliced lobster tail on a bun) at the pool grill -- for no extra cost :cool:. All soft drinks and non-alcoholic specialty coffees are also included in the fare.

 

Of course, the cruise fare on Oceania will be at least double that of NCL. We sail Oceania most of the time but sail NCL when the budget is tight (we can sail in a suite on NCL and still save money over a standard veranda on Oceania.

 

We choose NCL because of the freestyle dining. Oceania is all "open dining", go when you please, sit with whom you want. NCL is the closest to that concept.

 

When we are sailing on the less expensive cruise line, we don't expect the same level of food and service we get on more expensive lines. Our expecations are adjusted to the price. However, on our previous NCL cruise, those expectations were exceeded, and we expect they will on our next NCL cruise, also.

 

Our our NCL Jewel cruise to New England and Canada, we only had one time when there was a short line for the aft main dining room. There was no line at the mid-ship dining room, so we tried that. That wass our lonly disappointment in the dining department -- the mid-ship dining room is oddly shaped, has a very low ceiling and all the noise is reflected from it, and the service was not up to the aft dining room. We won't be doing that again...

 

The only specialty restaurant we tried was the Italian, at that time $10, and it wasn't worth even that low cost. The food was nothing special over the main dining room. We are breakfast and lunch in one of the buffets (breakfast in the small, aft buffet was very handy) and all our other meals in the aft main dining room. It was more than adequate.

 

On our next cruise with NCL Star in the Scandavia area, we have a suite so we'll get to try Cagney's for breakfast and lunch. We're also planning to try each specialty restaurant once, but no more than that, because we're philosophically opposed to paying for food when it's already included in the cruise fare. We'll be aboard 24 days. We expect to see a repeat menu, but that's OK, because we'll get to try the things we missed the first time around.

[DMH15]

All of us pop into an Appleby's or a Chili's or even a (gag) Cheesecake Factory once in awhile for acceptable commodity food. I hit up my favorite hole-in-the-wall Mexican place once a week because it's good food. It's a casual atmosphere and cheap food.

But, in a large, formal dining room with white tablecloth service, to serve that same quality of food (even if we like the food in an informal setting) is akin to slapping lipstick on the pig. For me, that is the issue. The atmosphere no longer matches the cuisine. If the cruiseline wants to save money, they could also downscale the formality of the MDRs and indeed match the informality of the food with the ambience. No need for white tablecloths and uniforms would save laundry costs and the food would taste the same :D

 

You hit the nail on the head!!!

[davesgirl51]

Cokes were a nickel and a movie was 15 cents. We had no snow where I grew up.

 

Ah you are a tad older than I. Cokes were a dime (even with the shot of cherry or vanilla) and the movie was a 25 cents.

 

Sigh. Ah Papa !! You live on St. Simon's Island. Nice Papa ;)

[johnmpcny]

All of us pop into an Appleby's or a Chili's or even a (gag) Cheesecake Factory once in awhile for acceptable commodity food. I hit up my favorite hole-in-the-wall Mexican place once a week because it's good food. It's a casual atmosphere and cheap food.

But, in a large, formal dining room with white tablecloth service, to serve that same quality of food (even if we like the food in an informal setting) is akin to slapping lipstick on the pig. For me, that is the issue. The atmosphere no longer matches the cuisine. If the cruiseline wants to save money, they could also downscale the formality of the MDRs and indeed match the informality of the food with the ambience. No need for white tablecloths and uniforms would save laundry costs and the food would taste the same :D

 

:) we are thinking alike on this one.

 

I do like the lower cost and option to pay for better as I choose. (I will at least 2 maybe 3 times on the trip).

 

But so many people here cannot be 100% wrong. Professional travel mag's cannot be so wrong, believe me they notice it.

 

That said do not try pissing on my leg and telling me it is raining. The food in the MDR buffet as my daughter said is equal to her college dinning hall's with white table clothes and dressed up waiters. Again the #1 ranked thing needing improvement in every list I have read.

 

I am not claiming it is not edible or really bad but it could it be so much with little cost or effort.

 

Yes I would pay more like $25 pp a trip for just better food, if that want a $100 more I can pretty much hit a combo of the pay restaurants most nights for that.

 

I will also note the 2013 bookings I am looking at are trending higher- up at least 10% some even more. I wonder if the food will get better next year?

[mking8288]

Adjusted for inflation & pricing changes, it's cheaper to cruise NCL today than in 2002. The quality of the MDR experience hasn't declined, the food quality isn't much different than what it was then, but we've noticed subtle changes - undoubtly, blessed by the bean counters as cost saving measures.

 

First, there are fewer choices & selections in the MDR - dinner AND lunch (I will leave breakfast alone ...) NOT related to quality, however.

MDR, Blue Lagoon or buffet - the beef burger is just as juicey, quality-wise, I have no complaints. We used to look forward to great choices in the MDR - 4 or 5, maybe 6 different appetiziers, 2 or 3 salads, 2 or 3 soups plus a chilled one, and then 4 to 6 entrees, and at least 4 or 5 desserts for the day (plus the fixed items like steak & salmon, etc. as daily choices. )

 

Our most recent NCL sailings were about 20 months apart, the quantity/serving size seemed to have shrinken by a tiny bit (5 to 10% - which is fine by us counting our calories) - not scientific & not quality-related. Just a subjective observation of mine.

 

The quality is as good as one can expected for a kitchen gallery that must dish out 10,000 portions daily - while still making it affordable for the majority to cruise. We respect that - or, else NCL will go bankrupt - leaving us holding our Future Cruise Certificates !!!

 

On our last meal eaten in the 2nd. MDR, I finally realized that gone are the little candlelight & tiny vase w. (live) flower on each table, and, fresh pepper are longer offered by the waiter - grounded directly over the entree. Absolutely nothing to do with QUALITY - but, yes, it does changed the dining experience a little bit - with white tablecloth & napkins.

 

But, as DW said after eating out Boston Chicken :eek: a la carte while shopping at the mall - we still love NCL and planning to book the next one again, as soon as we find a deal too good to pass - once her 2013 vacation days are approved by her regional SVP.

[sdmike]

The point being it used to be better. The day will come when it is totally unacceptable. It'll be tough when the food selection is worse than the beer selection. Speaking of beer (how's THAT for a segue?) I got four cases of Shiner Holiday Cheer yesterday.

 

I think there is a floor to food quality that the main population will accept. I'm probably pretty mainstream when it comes to my food quality demands, and I can assure you that if their food became "inedible" there would be a mass exodus. They're willing to sacrifice those who demand higher quality for the savings associated with lowering the bar to a level acceptable to the majority. Go under that bar and it hurts them badly.

 

Love the beer segue. :) I just scored 6 bottles of Goose Island BCS Coffee, and a very hard to find Goose Island Cherry Rye Stout. It's their BCS aged in rye barrels with sour cherries. I hear it's amazing. They sold out in 15 minutes. Now I just have to get to Chicago to pick up my beer. haha

[4774Papa]

I have had some super meals on cruise ships. NCL's specialty restaurants generally offer excellent food. For the MDR, the chefs have to prepare for thousands, so it makes it hard to compare with restaurants on shore. Still, I have paid for meals on shore in well known restaurants that were no better than on ship.

 

Here in Coastal Georgia, we have a restaurant rated in the top twenty in the state, where the entree costs about $15. As you can imagine, the restaurant is very popular. Sometimes what you pay for food has no direct relation to the quality.

 

A restaurant that serve wild Georgia shrimp instead of pond shrimp from SE Asia will have a good start on great food. Than add fresh ingredients and special recipes.

[SMSACE6]

:)I guess I am just an easy to please person with regards to food, as long as it is decent and properly cooked, and served in a timely manner, no complaints from me. I also happen to like Applebees and Ruby Tuesday. I dont know Bob's but might like it also.

 

I dont particularly like high priced meals that arrive on a plate, constructed like a tower, something on top of something, with sprig of something sticking out of the top, and chive or two placed across the plate, and sprinkles of this or that, and a squiggle of sauce and a few peas here and there! I find those high priced places and fine dining atmospheres a big disappointment mostly. Just me though.

 

As far as traditional cruise dining goes; I will never go back to that ever ever ever! Been lucky mostly, but it only takes one bad experience to make you never want to go back to that ever ever ever!

 

For me it will be "anytime, yourtime, mytime" or whatever or freestyle from now on. And I might or might not try one of the up charge restaurants depending. Again, this just me, but will never go back to traditional dining on a cruise again, and as long as we dont have to pay for every bite that goes in our mouth, then I should manage to find something to hold me over for the duration of the cruise.:)

[sdmike]

:)I guess I am just an easy to please person with regards to food, as long as it is decent and properly cooked, and served in a timely manner, no complaints from me. I also happen to like Applebees and Ruby Tuesday. I dont know Bob's but might like it also.

 

I dont particularly like high priced meals that arrive on a plate, constructed like a tower, something on top of something, with sprig of something sticking out of the top, and chive or two placed across the plate, and sprinkles of this or that, and a squiggle of sauce and a few peas here and there! I find those high priced places and fine dining atmospheres a big disappointment mostly. Just me though.

 

As far as traditional cruise dining goes; I will never go back to that ever ever ever! Been lucky mostly, but it only takes one bad experience to make you never want to go back to that ever ever ever!

 

For me it will be "anytime, yourtime, mytime" or whatever or freestyle from now on. And I might or might not try one of the up charge restaurants depending. Again, this just me, but will never go back to traditional dining on a cruise again, and as long as we dont have to pay for every bite that goes in our mouth, then I should manage to find something to hold me over for the duration of the cruise.:)