Tipping in addition to added gratuity

[charliedalrymple]

As a lowly civil servant, I won't need to participate in comparisons of net worth, because it should be obvious to everyone at the table that I likely earn less than their teenage sons.

 

You won't find many of those sailing with Cunard these days, they have abandoned Cunard to the middle classes.

 

As a proud member of the unwashed masses of which David speaks, I like to think that we in the middle class can still be classy. I might even have an intelligent thing or two to add to the conversation at dinner! ;)

[3rdGenCunarder]

What you say is perfectly true but substitute balance sheet for salary slip and the principle holds. It seems that no-one can resist bringing money into any conversation on a cruise ship irrespective of the height of their echelon.

Gab.

 

Really? I don't think I've ever been part of a "how much do you earn/have" conversation on a cruise.

 

If you don't like the tipping threads, don't read them.

 

Experienced cruisers have made up their minds about what they will do, but new cruisers find the tipping thing bewildering, so they ask. On our recent TA, we had first-timers at our table. On the next to last night, she asked us if people generally tipped above the automatic gratuity. She was a bit hesitant, thinking such a question might be too personal. We told her that it's a perfectly reasonable question, and that some people give extra, but it isn't expected. Told them about getting extra envelopes at the purser if they needed them, etc. I don't think we discussed amounts.

[balf]

As a lowly civil servant, I won't need to participate in comparisons of net worth, because it should be obvious to everyone at the table that I likely earn less than their teenage sons.

 

 

[/quote

 

Probably not, nowadays their teenage sons are probably on the dole.

 

David

[balf]

but new cruisers find the tipping thing bewildering, so they ask.

 

Judging by the replies, a fat lot of help they got I think.

 

David

[moniquet]

We tip again, it does seem to be the norm. It does annoy me though when the ship charges "gratuities" and 15% on bar bills:mad: What I have heard of the crews wages the gratuities must more than cover the crews wages.

[Cruachan]

I once gave a taxi driver a 6d tip.. He balanced the coin on his finger and asked if I could afford.

 

So that would mean it was a finger tip?

 

:D:D

 

J

[gabianno]

Really? I don't think I've ever been part of a "how much do you earn/have" conversation on a cruise.

Perhaps not but I would be extremely surprised not to say amazed if, with your cruising experience, you had never been part of or overheard any ' I only paid xx for this cruise' or 'let me tell you the deal I got' conversations.

 

If you don't like the tipping threads, don't read them.

 

An all too common reply to anybody who expresses a contrary opinion.

 

How then would I be able to express my dislike of them?

Gabianno

[keithm]

As a lowly civil servant, I won't need to participate in comparisons of net worth, because it should be obvious to everyone at the table that I likely earn less than their teenage sons.

 

 

 

As a proud member of the unwashed masses of which David speaks, I like to think that we in the middle class can still be classy. I might even have an intelligent thing or two to add to the conversation at dinner! ;)

Well, as long as you can state the difference between an out turn v/s an in turn when discussing curling I think you'll get along fine.

[Salacia]

Not so in relation to another Carnival company. P&O charge £3.10. This of course is a line marketed to the UK, and that explains the difference. No, it's nothing to do with Brits being mean and tight fisted. It's a culture thing and many here are appalled by the way tipping has got so out of controll in the US.

 

I am not recommending this line: they have other downsides, but the wholly British Saga, which sells to "mature" cruisers and gives superb service superior to Cunard in my experience, include all tips in the price you pay. As the previous poster said why don't Cunard?

 

David.

 

Hi Balf. It appears that you were responding to a quote attributed to me in your post #11, but this was not my quote, it must have been a glitch, because this is NOT my thoughts on the matter. I've searched the thread, and I don't know where the quote came from, but wasn't mine.

[balf]

Hi Balf. It appears that you were responding to a quote attributed to me in your post #11, but this was not my quote, it must have been a glitch, because this is NOT my thoughts on the matter. I've searched the thread, and I don't know where the quote came from, but wasn't mine.

 

This was from your post number 9 where you had pasted a communication from Cunard. I did not mean to imply that it was your opinion. Hope this clears it up

 

David

[Ab Ovo]

If I find the staff good, the service good, I will tip in addition to the added gratuity. One does not have to, but it is my way.

 

I like 3rdGenCunarder Kathy's handle on this ..."We told her that it's a perfectly reasonable question, and that some people give extra, but it isn't expected. Told them about getting extra envelopes at the purser if they needed them."

 

"Isn't expected" is key for me. I don't care for the discretionary charge, the idea of it. I don't like having to subsidize Cunard for paying its employees low wages. But I do leave it on, feeling Cunard doesn't pay staff well.

 

If I like staff, and usually have had good ones, I always and especially give the room stewards and waiters additional. Always American cash. And I give it the 3rd or 4th day. It's always smiles and attentiveness the rest of the trip.

 

Again, it is not necessary, but as for more senior service staff refusing proffered tips, after a polite demur of "Oh no, Sir, it is our pleasure" they will accept money in the spirit in which it is offered. Always.

 

Just sayin' … my experiences through all the Cunard ships and changes since QE2 in '82.

[balf]

. Always American cash. And I give it the 3rd or 4th day. It's always smiles and attentiveness the rest of the trip.

 

.

 

So you are not rewarding staff you are bribing them.

 

David.

[Pies4u]

The concept of auto tipping is the problem. It is a very unnecessary system.

 

Cunard should pay their staff properly & not expect their customers to supplement their income with some quasi feudal, charitable handouts. If they wish to adopt that approach then include it in the fare, not as an extra - fixed by default so you have to go to them if you prefer to have it removed and tip those you wish, what you wish.

[2irisheyes]

I know the discussion of this subject goes on for ever and I, like many outside of America, wish it were different ie that staff were paid a proper wage by their employer. I would find it very demeaning to be employed on a pittance and have to rely on the generosity of passengers for my full wage. I think it is a very outdated system. I do not expect Americans to agree with me. This is my view. It is a bit like someone giving you a pat on the head and saying well done.

[balf]

I have been on cruises where the tips are included in the fare and the system works great. When you board the ship you have forgotten how much you paid, and I felt a small load lifted by knowing that I did not have to bother thinking about tips. And let's face it, the questions asked here and with table companions, even Americans, show the niggling concerns.

 

Problem is with our friends across the pond who are addicted to tipping as smokers are to nicotine, and of course Cunard are more than happy to play along, so I fear nothing is going to change soon or ever.

 

David.

[glojo]

I know the discussion of this subject goes on for ever and I, like many outside of America, wish it were different ie that staff were paid a proper wage by their employer. I would find it very demeaning to be employed on a pittance and have to rely on the generosity of passengers for my full wage. I think it is a very outdated system. I do not expect Americans to agree with me. This is my view. It is a bit like someone giving you a pat on the head and saying well done.

It is not a case of agreeing or disagreeing with you. The folks that do this work really have to rely on tips to exist. Whether we think it right or wrong is a completely seperate arguement although i think it totally wrong.

 

Bottom line is we live in the real world and we as the fare paying customer are subsidising the wage of those that choose or have to work on these ships.

 

I tend to work out the costs of the tip and in my mind I add that to the original cost of the cruise, add it together and then accept this as the real price I have to pay.

 

Would we work for nothing, or a paltry sum as that is what we are talking about if we elect to avoid the gratuity 'tax'.

[babine]

I want to know that the staff on board are paid whatever wage they and Cunard have agreed upon in their contract. My assumption has always been that they are paid a salary per fixed amount of time on the ship and that there is a minimum number of hours that they are required to work for this salary (my observation is that they must work a lot of hours for a relatively small salary). I hope that their existing wage is fair, but I have my doubts (which is why I always feel like I need to leave some cash at the end of the voyage).

 

Another of my assumptions is that the auto-charged gratuity on our statement is additional to the base salary promised to the steward and waiters. While Cunard says that this is for the convenience of passengers, I rather think it is essentially a top up to the base salary of the steward and waiters. The fact of the matter is, if it really were a tip/gratuity, then it wouldn't be auto-charged, because it really is meaningless, unless a passenger consciously decides to give that tip to the particular crew member in question.

 

I would rather pay a slightly higher fare (I'm at the bottom end of the fare structure anyway) to ensure that all crew members are paid fairly for the long hours that they work, and then if I thought they went above and beyond and really made my experience a great one, then I would decide on my own how much and who to apply the tip to.

 

So what I would like to see is: The price of my fare goes up by (it depends on voyage) $100. No autocharged gratuity on my statement. I choose to whom and how much I tip for great service.

 

Finally - what is the deal with the bar/wine service charge of 15%. For ordering a drink at a bar, having the order filled, and the drink brought to you - THAT is not worth an extra 15%. On my own, however, if the bartender struck up a fabulous conversation with me, asked how my day was going, offered some advice on a cool thing to go see at the next port, and smiled, I would definitely leave them something in appreciation after I was finished. Unfortunately, tipping and gratuities have become an expectation and obligation rather than a reward for outstanding service.

 

I respect all opinions on this topic - this is just my own. Cheers.

[2irisheyes]

Glojo - I am well aware of all that you say. Because I think it is a bad system does not mean that I do not pay the "tips/gratuities". I was expressing my opinion on the system and that I would not like to be employed under such terms. If I did not pay the "tips/gratuities" I certainly would not be on here boasting about it. If I could not bring myself to go along with the system then I would not cruise. I doubt that things will change.

 

I too would be quite happy to pay more for my cruise knowing that the staff are paid a proper wage for their hard work and that everyone is contributing their fair share. The compulsive tippers could still tip away to their hearts content.

[glojo]

I think we are all singing from the same hymn sheet.

 

In the UK we had a documentary that was all about someone going undercover working as a waiter on a major cruise line. This was the footage that opened my eyes and quite clearly without these tips the staff appeared to be screwed.

 

What appeals to my sense of humour is how Celebrity and the fans of that cruise company condemned the program but they neither denied the 'facts' that were exposed or sue the TV company for what was said during the program.

 

Click

 

I am NOT having a go at Celebrity as I am assuming the cruise lines will all be competing against each other for the very best staff?? Will ANY DOCUMENTARY be biased in trying to portray a certain view when broadcasting its program and is it down to the viewer to try and form an unbias opinion. Click

 

This person produced pay slips, recorded interviews with his employers and none of these facts were denied by Celebrity

 

I have NO idea how many cabins the stewards look after but if we say they have ten, then those tips should give them a decent income?? I figure at least $20 per cabin per day multiplied by ten will give a minimum of $200 per day which to me is not something to turn down although they do put in the hours to earn this. $200 per day minimum tips plus the awful pittance they call a salary will then become a wage that is not as low as we might at first think??

 

I accept the gratuities are slightly more than what I have discussed but my point is that once they receive these amounts, are they now getting a decent return for the extremely hard work they have to do and from what I saw a 16 hour day was not anything exceptional?

[Officeboy]

Yes, but if the gratuities of $11 per day is for staff wages does that mean that on Carnivals/Cunard sister cruise line P/O they charge $5 per day that the staff earn half the wages?

[glojo]

Yes, but if the gratuities of $11 per day is for staff wages does that mean that on Carnivals/Cunard sister cruise line P/O they charge $5 per day that the staff earn half the wages?

 

I have no idea and hopefully I have NOT stated what company demands what level of gratuity. I personally look at the cruise prices and if I am happy with what is asked, I book the cruise. If I do not like it..... I walk away, my choice, my decision.

 

I will NOT however book something and then complain about any issue that is clearly advertised and part and parcel of any prospective cruise. Again these are very much my own thoughts.... I would like the gratuity issue to thrown out and all staff paid a fair wage, then we passengers can reward any service that is above and beyond the call of duty.

 

Regarding that specific documentary I understand that the response by Carnival was the wage they pay is far more than these folks would get in their home country!!!

 

It could be suggested that these cruise companies have registered in countries that allow this sort of 'explotation' and by doing that it then raises FAR bigger issues than just gratuitity.

 

Do all countries insist on the same standards of marine safety and do they ensure standards are maintained? Should these large companies be registered in countries that might insist on a higher level of standards be they just employment or perhaps safety? Should Cunard perhaps be registered in either the USA or Great Britain? (These are questions and NOT statements)

[fantasy51]

A few years ago on a Princess cruise, I was told that waiters employed in the Philippines are paid $50 per month. They need the gratuities to make this up to a normal wage.

 

On my last Cunard voyage in December I spoke to my steward and he said he receives $1.90 per day from each of his passengers who pays the full gratuities. (The rest goes to other staff members.)

 

Some of us on our table had discussed this issue, and a couple of the men were very vociferous in their belief that the automatic gratuities did not all get rolled down to the relevant staff, so they chose to opt out of that situation and give envelopes. My room steward was rather scathing of this practice, as he said such people often put $10 in an envelope - and as we were on a 21 day cruise, that made for a huge disparity!

 

I pay full automatic gratuities and give envelopes at the end to my room steward and the two waiters. I have started wondering what I should be doing about room service. Should I be giving a dollar or two each time something is delivered to my room? I have always assumed that's paid from the automatic gratuities. What do the rest of you do?

[keithm]

A few years ago on a Princess cruise, I was told that waiters employed in the Philippines are paid $50 per month. They need the gratuities to make this up to a normal wage.

 

On my last Cunard voyage in December I spoke to my steward and he said he receives $1.90 per day from each of his passengers who pays the full gratuities. (The rest goes to other staff members.)

 

Some of us on our table had discussed this issue, and a couple of the men were very vociferous in their belief that the automatic gratuities did not all get rolled down to the relevant staff, so they chose to opt out of that situation and give envelopes. My room steward was rather scathing of this practice, as he said such people often put $10 in an envelope - and as we were on a 21 day cruise, that made for a huge disparity!

 

I pay full automatic gratuities and give envelopes at the end to my room steward and the two waiters. I have started wondering what I should be doing about room service. Should I be giving a dollar or two each time something is delivered to my room? I have always assumed that's paid from the automatic gratuities. What do the rest of you do?

Room service is normally "part' of the hotel accomodations. Some tip others don't. it's up to you. We've always tipped above the daily gratuity. Being in the food service industry we rely on tips as well, & like to take care of those who take care of us. The "Berlitz Guide to Cruise ships & Cruising" is very helpful in the area of tipping.

[balf]

. We've always tipped above the daily gratuity. .

 

As have everyone who expressed a preference.

 

David.

[bazzaw]

We have just come off an RCI cruise - where they have a "recommended" gratuity charge which you can ask them to put onto your daily account (compulsory for "Anytime dining) or not. We chose to "tip" our waiters by cash.

 

I have read a million posts of what happens, what should happen, what may or may not happen regarding staff remuneration and gratuities etc - and all I know is that our waiters were VERY good and also VERY VERY keen to receive "EXCELLENT" ratings on the survey that they ask us to fill out at the end of the cruise - and also seemed VERY VERY keen to have their next cruise contract confirmed.

 

Everything in this life of ours is relative and not absolute - so what appears to be a very low remuneration for us may not be for others . I am also certain that Paris Hilton cannot understand at all how I can manage to survive on my measly small fortune.

 

Barry