Evolution of HAL in 2013........

[sail7seas]

I see a lot of people leaning towards Celebrity. I took a cruise on Celebrity maybe about 8 years ago and didn't like it. I decided to take another one in 2012 to see if that was an anomoly. It wasn't. The one I took several years ago was much better. The service overall was not good and the food was a mix, really bad or quite good. I didn't think the ship was anything special. That said, I've never liked the decor on HAL ships and I'm pretty self entertaining so that's not a biggie either. I can see HAL ships being boring for people that constantly need something happening but that's one of the things that I enjoy about HAL, the ships are generally quiet.

 

 

I so agree about self-entertainers probably enjoying HAL's atmosphere more than those who need constant stimulation and more organized activities. We never were into the lengthy list of things to do and much prefer doing our own thing when and how we want.

 

Some folks want to hop from one activity to another and others want to be left to do on their own....... There is a cruise line/a ship out there for everyone to get what it is they want from their cruise. Choose well.

 

HAL is not for everyone and I wish they would stop trying to be. RCI, NCL etc are not for everyone but they seem to have identified more clearly what their market is seeking/requiring.

 

[bepsf]

Thanks for sharing all these great ideas and as we researched our next cruise we saw some glaring issues with pricing that left us scratching our heads. We are booking a Panama Canal full transit and were comparing HAL with Celebrity and the difference in pricing was striking.

 

We decided to compare three cruises all are 15 days departing from San Diego:

 

Celebrity Infinity: Royal Suite $5850 per person or Celebrity Suite $4450 per person

Westerdam: SC Corner Aft Suite $5800 per person

Statendam: S Suite $7400 per person

 

The discussion has centered around some of the deep discounts given for the cheapest cabins but the opposite situation is happening at the suite level. The Royal and Celebrity suite cabins we are told are far superior in decor and square footage compared to HAL (in fact the Celebrity suite is almost identical in inside/outside square footage to a Deluxe Verandah. Both suites offer trade offs Neptune Lounge v. Butler, Pinnacle Breakfast v. Blu Breakfast. We love the SC corner but for $50 more or $1400 less in a Celebrity Suite the value is leaning towards the Infinity. The Westerdam looks like a great ship and we are boarding the ship in May for Alaska but compared to Infinity we have the option of three specialty restaurants v. two and a similar suite experience.

 

Your analysis is most interesting since it's what my Family and I considered at when planning our upcoming Panama Canal voyage.

While we could have paid a bit less to go w/ HAL in a pair of Deluxe Suites, the itinerary wasn't much more than a Mexico cruise w/ one Caribbean port and the Canal: Not interesting to us at all.

We considered Crystal: Highly Recommended, All inclusive, Interesting itinerary, Amazing reputation for food, service and enrichment activities. We found that we could take an 18 day cruise in their lowest outside cabins (no Balcony) for @$6000/pp.

Then we looked at Cunard and found that for roughly the same money we could do a 15 day World Cruise segment in a pair of Princess Grille suites. (Roughly equivalent to a HAL SS in size - which is fine w/ me) Reasonable itinerary with 3 Caribbean ports, lots of sea days, two weeks of Made-to-Order A La Carte dining at our own table, plenty of enrichment activities and all the trimmings: Bingo!

I'm planning on writing about our experinces aboard Queen Elizabeth - So look for it starting a couple weeks from now...

[jaguarstyper]

You can't group everyone into categories. My husband has been retired for 8 years but at 60 years old his idea of retirement is not sitting around for days on end, reading or watching the world go by. One day of that in between busy port days is enough for him.

So for us the onboard experience is never going to be the main appeal of cruising. We look at the ship as a means of transportation and lodging. (Not that we don't enjoy relaxing on our balcony at the end of a busy day) For us cruising is all about the itinerary. The dining experience on the ship is not nearly as important as the meals we enjoy in the various ports. The entertainment the ship offers pales in comparison to the fun we have in port either on our own or with the wonderful people we've gotten to know here on CC.

No cruise line can be all things to all people but as long as HAL has itineraries that appeal to us, we'll keep coming back.

I get what you are saying, but on my recent cruise I found the time given to spend in port on all but one of the stops was so short you couldn't really do much ashore. I'm reading this is becoming more of a trend as lines are staying in ports for shorter amounts of time for whatever reasons. So, the effectiveness of a cruise for true exploring is becoming less and less. I always felt HAL offered interesting itineraries with lots of port time, but that seems to be going away too. Last cruise, we always felt rushed when we were off the ship.

[Jade13]

With Carnival and actually Celebrity and Royal Caribbean pricing starts out much lower at 18 months prior to the cruise date and gradually increases, this in turn conditions the cruiser to book early and less likely to cancel because of seeing the pricing higher then what it was when they booked. Granted there are always some sailings with Carnival that occasionally drop in price closer to the sailing and ever more rare is it happening with Celebrity and RCI.

 

I think they need to look at what Celebrity is doing in terms of both pricing (lower pricing early), staffing, and past passenger perks.

 

I think those alone would make a huge difference.

 

I don't think the lines need to be the same and they aren't. The Celebrity ships are very modern with modern art (think MOMA), while HAL's ships are traditional brass and promenade deck and more of an art mix (think MET). The Celebrity marketing is clever and now calling themselves "modern luxury". On Celebrity there was a bit too much selling going on as far as the speciality restaurants, but I would rather have bars with 5 people to wait on you verses what is going on with HAL right now. When we finally found a server in the lido to bring a cola, by the time they would come back we would be finished eating. The staffing levels are too low and even the staff was unhappy.

 

I think HAL's approach is all wrong, and they need to be more forward thinking and continue to attract new clients.

 

We find what is happening on HAL sad, and (very) reluctantly looking at other cruise lines and land vacations.

[Jade13]

Great post with some great ideas.

why HAL has decided to be the SAME as all of the other lines,sell cabins for $349 for 7 days and let people tote their own CASES of beverages is baffling.

 

 

I agree. I bring up Celebrity again only because we just got off Silhouette. They only allow two bottles of wine (unlimited colas, water, etc). But they sell all kinds of unlimited beverage packages and they are very popular. Pay if you wish and then have a more all inclusive vacation. Plus the bars are filled each night so very social atmosphere.

[Jade13]

This topic really has interested me as I was thinking about the future of HAL the Westerdam in November. We selected the ship for the 499 balcony price on a thanksgiving cruise that was upgraded to the second highest balcony once booked. I mean no disrespect to anyone, but feel cruise lines are marketing to me an my generation. You see it in brochures, adds, etc. After the cruise, I wondered what would draw me back to HAL. The only thing I thought of was price. The cruise was not bad, but there was nothing memorable about the experience. I paid double to sail Celebrity a few weeks later on a non holiday week and given the choice I would pay 2x the price to book Celebrity again. The ship, the experience, the people are all memorable and for someone approaching 40 with no children, Celebrity fits. HAL could be this too, but they are not there.

 

I am really curious to see what the new ship will entail. Unlike many of the traditional cruisers posting, I think the need to make the ship appeal to a new generation, significantly upgrade their entertainment, and make something memorable about the ship. While you might not ice skate, rock climb, etc... People talk about it.

 

The addition of Princess to the CCL really screwed over the HAL brand... They were going after the same cruiser and Princess gave the better experience (IMO). Now you have no clear definition between the 2 cruise lines and you see ridiculously low fares.

 

The fact that they allow everyone to bring on unlimted amounts of wine, etc actually makes no business sense.

[SilvertoGold]

Traditional cruisers are dying off.

 

There is a new generation of cruisers who have only sailed with dimished service, extra charges and rock-bottom prices. That's all they've ever known.

 

So if you're a cruise line executive, who will you be targeting? A dying client base or a whole group who don't realize what used to be?

 

Definitely HAL is looking for newbies for the reason you site, but their Mariner Star progam, especially the new 5 star level, with rewards over and above the medallions, is a big indication to me that HAL values and wants to keep and address their loyal/longtime pax.

[sail7seas]

Definitely HAL is looking for newbies for the reason you site, but their Mariner Star progam, especially the new 5 star level, with rewards over and above the medallions, is a big indication to me that HAL values and wants to keep and address their loyal/longtime pax.

 

 

I agree with you that HAL values their high day Mariner repeaters and as you site, the new Five Star designation is indicative of that.

 

Some would have us think we have been kicked to the curb but I strongly feel otherwise.

 

DH and I feel well treated and say so.

 

[LindaM]

The fact that they allow everyone to bring on unlimted amounts of wine, etc actually makes no business sense.

 

Actually, the people who buy wine in port still buy drinks in the lounges. We are not going to bring wine into those venues and most of us won't spend the exorbitant corkage fee. My bar bill is going to be the same, minus the glass of wine I drink in the cabin before bed. I have never seen anyone bringing on cases of wine, even though people here say they have. I am sure it's not common.

 

That said, I will not sail Princess if they start limiting wine brought onboard. It's fun to buy wine in foreign ports for wine drinkers!! HAL will get Princess people who have the same thoughts.

[mainelycruising]

I write, having taken my family on over 30 HAL cruises over the past 32 years.

 

HAL has been trying to establish a firm niche in a shifting consumer market that has changed beyond almost all recognition since it was bought by Carnival. For a time it tried to remain a premium line while the general 'tone' of cruising was becoming more mass-market. HAL and Celebrity were on a par. Then along came the new lines into the premier market - Oceania, Azamara et al - and HAL found the market tightening. It dropped its prices to attract new clients but began to suffer lower standards, as described on this thread. And, hand on heart, I still think it has not found its comfortable niche in the new world of popular cruising.

 

I would prefer to see it charge more and restore unchallenged premier status; aim for cruises that nourish the brain as much as the body; use the smaller ships to visit ports that are rarely visited; and do with it what Cunard has done - retain the 'class' of old style cruising and bring it up to snuff for modern, yet affluent, cruisers. It is not too late. The brand is still there; but chasing upwardly-mobile mass market clients with mass market pricing and mass market service makes it a mass market brand.

 

I would rather see HAL scale back (if need be) while scale up its brand, than try to pack the ships and lower the standards. When I see Alaskan cruises advertised for as low as $499 a week on HAL, I know that the standards have had to drop.

[jaguarstyper]

The fact that they allow everyone to bring on unlimted amounts of wine, etc actually makes no business sense.

Do you really think everyone brings cases of wine onto HAL ships? Most people I've met on board aren't even aware of this. I would guess a small percentage, probably well less than 25% bring any wine on board. An even smaller percentage, probably less than 1% bring cases of wine on board. I have no proof, its just a guess. I do know some people that cruise on HAL because of their liberal wine policy and may decide to go somewhere else if they rescind the policy. It makes very good business sense to do little things that make you different from your competition. Perks and comps are given away all the time in the travel business. Do those make any business sense to you? Why would they give things away when they can sell them?

[SilvertoGold]

I agree with you that HAL values their high day Mariner repeaters and as you site, the new Five Star designation is indicative of that.

 

Some would have us think we have been kicked to the curb but I strongly feel otherwise.

 

DH and I feel well treated and say so.

 

 

Yes, we have always felt very well-treated on HAL, even when we started cruising. At the gold level, we thought the treatment went up a notch in some respects. Depends, ship to ship, things vary.

 

Sometimes we think the ships might find the whole program a lot of work/fuss, but HAL Seattle has the right idea with the Mariner program, with the rewards. The latest Manager of the Mariner Society, Gerald Bernhoft, is a high ranking manager and is a superb representative of HAL and their attitude of valuing their Mariners.

 

We haven't been "kicked to the curb", nor are we ALL that old. HAL knows how they fill the ships and it is not all newbies!

[Wakepatrol]

Do you really think everyone brings cases of wine onto HAL ships? Most people I've met on board aren't even aware of this. I would guess a small percentage, probably well less than 25% bring any wine on board. An even smaller percentage, probably less than 1% bring cases of wine on board. I have no proof, its just a guess. I do know some people that cruise on HAL because of their liberal wine policy and may decide to go somewhere else if they rescind the policy. It makes very good business sense to do little things that make you different from your competition. Perks and comps are given away all the time in the travel business. Do those make any business sense to you? Why would they give things away when they can sell them?

 

 

ahh- but that new cruiser you mentioned,that wants more to do,they pay $500 for a phone and sleep outside of the store to get one. They'll surely pay $6 for a beer or $2.25 for a soda in the middle of the ocean won't they?:rolleyes:

[jaguarstyper]

ahh- but that new cruiser you mentioned,that wants more to do,they pay $500 for a phone and sleep outside of the store to get one. They'll surely pay $6 for a beer or $2.25 for a soda in the middle of the ocean won't they?:rolleyes:

Of course they will, so will I and I do. Roughly $600 worth on my last 7 day cruise. But, I am one of those cheapskates that brings a few bottles of wine on board.

[Wakepatrol]

I agree. I bring up Celebrity again only because we just got off Silhouette. They only allow two bottles of wine (unlimited colas, water, etc). But they sell all kinds of unlimited beverage packages and they are very popular. Pay if you wish and then have a more all inclusive vacation. Plus the bars are filled each night so very social atmosphere.

 

 

You mean...sitting in your cabin wearing Walmart sweatpants, sipping Andre champagne and your $6 wine isn't fun?:p

[CowPrincess]

Actually, the people who buy wine in port still buy drinks in the lounges. We are not going to bring wine into those venues and most of us won't spend the exorbitant corkage fee. My bar bill is going to be the same, minus the glass of wine I drink in the cabin before bed. I have never seen anyone bringing on cases of wine, even though people here say they have. I am sure it's not common.

 

That said, I will not sail Princess if they start limiting wine brought onboard. It's fun to buy wine in foreign ports for wine drinkers!! HAL will get Princess people who have the same thoughts.

 

We are happy to pay the $18 corkage fee to drink the wines we bring onboard in public venues. Happy. We do not feel $18 is "exorbitant" at all. We feel it is a win/win. We will have a bottle of wine that we know we enjoy, and HAL gets the $18 profit, without having to order, load, store the wine.

 

Do you really think everyone brings cases of wine onto HAL ships? Most people I've met on board aren't even aware of this. I would guess a small percentage, probably well less than 25% bring any wine on board. An even smaller percentage, probably less than 1% bring cases of wine on board. I have no proof, its just a guess. I do know some people that cruise on HAL because of their liberal wine policy and may decide to go somewhere else if they rescind the policy. It makes very good business sense to do little things that make you different from your competition. Perks and comps are given away all the time in the travel business. Do those make any business sense to you? Why would they give things away when they can sell them?

 

I've never seen people hauling cases of wine onto a ship, either. From some of the posts on CC, you'd think half the people who boarded the ship were pushing some sort of hand truck/dolly with cases of wine bungee-corded onto them. (While the other half of the people boarding stared in disapproval.... :D)

[Esri]

*snip*

I've never seen people hauling cases of wine onto a ship, either. From some of the posts on CC, you'd think half the people who boarded the ship were pushing some sort of hand truck/dolly with cases of wine bungee-corded onto them. (While the other half of the people boarding stared in disapproval.... :D)

 

I've never seen anyone hauling crates of wine either, but I HAVE seen posts on CC advising the use of said hand trolleys and bungee cords ;)

 

Seems like quite a few reviews of cruises out of FLL begin with "stopped at Total Wine"... :)

 

I don't care how much wine anyone brings on board and it may very well be that HAL makes more from the corkage fee without the inventory...

 

I'm considering giving up my lifelong Diet Coke addiction prior to my world cruise because I just can't see myself hauling my 3 cases a week up the gangway... ;)

[CowPrincess]

Seeing as the Pinnacle Grille is open for breakfast for suite pax, maybe HAL should start offering non-suite pax the chance to have breakfast there, too. A different "upcharge" menu than the MDR, and require reservations for both the suite pax and the "pay for a meal" pax. Requiring reservations would help ensure that the room was not over-full, that there were just enough pax utilizing it at any specific time for breakfast.

[CowPrincess]

I've never seen anyone hauling crates of wine either, but I HAVE seen posts on CC advising the use of said hand trolleys and bungee cords ;)

 

Seems like quite a few reviews of cruises out of FLL begin with "stopped at Total Wine"... :)

 

I don't care how much wine anyone brings on board and it may very well be that HAL makes more from the corkage fee without the inventory...

 

I'm considering giving up my lifelong Diet Coke addiction prior to my world cruise because I just can't see myself hauling my 3 cases a week up the gangway... ;)

 

 

About that Diet Coke -- If you are on the world cruise, don't you get to ship a BUNCH of luggage ahead of time? Hmmmmmm :)

 

(.... and we cruise out of FLL next so I guess we better plan on a stop at Total Wine :D .... )

[quixoticelixer]

You must remember as well that not all bargain shoppers are bad pax. Some might be younger bill paying taxed to death savvy buyers. ;) The westerdam for us was $200 cheaper than any other 7 day Christmas cruise, and I was the only man to wear tails that I saw. :p

[bepsf]

Seeing as the Pinnacle Grille is open for breakfast for suite pax, maybe HAL should start offering non-suite pax the chance to have breakfast there, too. A different "upcharge" menu than the MDR, and require reservations for both the suite pax and the "pay for a meal" pax. Requiring reservations would help ensure that the room was not over-full, that there were just enough pax utilizing it at any specific time for breakfast.

 

Unless the Pinnacle offered a different Breakfast Menu than the MDR, I doubt there would be much demand for that.

The Pinnacle staff already have a tough time keeping up w/ the Suite Passengers who breakfast there - Service there definitely tends toward "Leisurely"

[CowPrincess]

Unless the Pinnacle offered a different Breakfast Menu than the MDR, I doubt there would be much demand for that.

 

>SNIP<

 

which is why I said in my post

 

A different "upcharge" menu than the MDR,

[sail7seas]

Unless the Pinnacle offered a different Breakfast Menu than the MDR, I doubt there would be much demand for that.

 

The Pinnacle staff already have a tough time keeping up w/ the Suite Passengers who breakfast there - Service there definitely tends toward "Leisurely"

 

 

I agree.

Pinnacle staff cannot handle more than suite guests for breakfast and provide good service. I realize the tables are filled at dinner but either less are working in the morning or there is something going on but on every ship (and we've sailed 14 of HAL's 15), Pinnacle breakfast is 'leisurely'. We like that but there are times it has been a bit too slow.

 

We like the quiet atmosphere without lots of hub bub. The more guests you seat in there, the louder the noise and commotion level.

 

So, No........ I do not think having non-suite guests paying for breakfast in Pinnacle would work out well.

 

[sassyredhat]

Boy, this is sad....Although we only have 4 HAL cruises, HAL is our line of choice. We are seniors---hate the big ships, dislike the loud 20 and 30 yr old partiers and 500 kids (no flaming--we like kids).

We cruise HAL for the small ships, good food, great service, and because the crew makes us feel special. Oh, and that bag of laundry special is great.

But~~ for medical reasons, I can't fly much more than 3 hours, so we are limited to the west coast. :(

I love HAL for the long voyages. No way would I take CCL to Hawaii, and be stuck for 14 days. But, sadly, HAL isn't offering anything we are in a position to book. So, we have booked PCL and one NCL. When we sail with younger family, we don't book HAL.

I would love to sail HAL to Alaska, but how do I get back to San Diego except by Amtrak---done that, hated it. So we took PCL out of SF.

I'm just really sad about all this. I miss HAL.

Pat

[jaguarstyper]

I've never seen anyone hauling crates of wine either, but I HAVE seen posts on CC advising the use of said hand trolleys and bungee cords ;)

 

Seems like quite a few reviews of cruises out of FLL begin with "stopped at Total Wine"... :)

 

I don't care how much wine anyone brings on board and it may very well be that HAL makes more from the corkage fee without the inventory...

 

I'm considering giving up my lifelong Diet Coke addiction prior to my world cruise because I just can't see myself hauling my 3 cases a week up the gangway... ;)

Just for the record, Total Wine does sell individual bottles of wine. You don't have to buy it by the case there. :cool:

 

I also agree HAL makes easy money on the corkage fee, probably far more than they lose from people having a glass of their own wine in their cabin. I have no issues paying the corkage fee.

 

3 cases of diet coke per week? Good Lord! :eek: