Evolution of HAL in 2013........

[kkorman]

OK, I didn't realize that they only wanted you as a pax. There is my mistake:eek:. Personally there is nothing to lure me on to a Celebrity ship again and I'm ok with that. Before you think I'm as old as the hills, I want to tell you I'm not. I don't that there are that many years seperating our ages.

 

Age is irrelevant in this conversations... My point is HAL cannot fill their ships, even at below Carnival pricing. They need to attract cruisers by something other than providing a cheap cruise. They are not. I said they should be targeting me because I am as married as a gay guy can be in AZ with no kids who spends much of my disposable income on travel. This will not change any time soon. I certainly not trying to be arrogant, but saying that I am a desired demographic on premium cruise lines. My apologies that I did not explain that better. But my point again is they have done nothing to draw me to their brand. I would not have sailed on my recent Westerdam cruise had it not been for the incredibly cheap price over a holiday in which the ship did not sail full.

[kkorman]

I do not like sock puppets or ventriliquists either. I do not need to have HAL entertain me. I'm not trying to change RC or Celebrity. Neither line appeals to me and I'm ok with that. I don't think that every line has to cater to one crowd and that's the point for me. I think ALL cruise lines are offering bargains now, not just HAL.

 

I agree whole heartedly with statement, but would add that cruise lines need to appeal to more than just one type of crowd. That is the underlying problem HAL has going forward. Most cruiser believe HAL is for old people. I am sure Seattle loves that.

[kkorman]

Just to avoid confusion.......

 

Every HAL ship has verandas. The Vista and Signature ships have larger percentage of cabins with Verandas but there are great verandas for "S" suites and category "A" and "B" on the "S" and "R" Class ships. Our "SA" veranda on Vista and Signature are noticeably smaller (though plenty large enough) but more cabins have them.

 

Also....... DH and I are the exact description of the cruiser at their peak of spending on HAL ships ( have been for about 80 previous cruises). We are baby boomers with some cash in our budget for about 5 cruises a year. We are not yet dead and hopefully not near dead. HAL would be making a big mistake to ignore/move away from their 'ripe' baby boomer market.

 

Also for clarity, we do not feel they have nor do we see signs they plan to.

 

I could not agree more that HAL has to reach out to the next generation for their future. They have been trying to do that for years with somewhat success. Over our many, many cruises, we have seen far more young families/young people many with babies in strollers and children of all ages on the ships. We recently sailed two weeks over Thanksgiving for two cruises and it was nice seeing the many family groups and young people. Young couples, young professionals established enough to start building travel into their budgets.

 

Not all baby boomers or senior folks want the same things for their enjoyment on cruises.

We just had that conversation here where respected CC member Kazu was raving the benefits of arranging CC Roll Call groups for private excursions. MANY folks of all ages like that. DH and I do not. We don't all want the same things. This applies to folks of all ages.

 

Not all late twenty/thirty something year olds want the same thing any more than the baby boomers and older.

 

There could be an issue of HAL not offering something a particular 'group' of that age range want but there are many in the same age range who like just fine what is being offered.

 

It could be a personal choice situation not an act of ignoring a certain age groups needs and wishes, in general. Maybe it's you that doesn't like what is offered but not all your contemporaries agree?

 

kkorman, I guess what I'm trying to say is just because you are not seeing what you want on the ship does not mean others in your age group are not. It could be HAL just is not the cruise line for you??

 

I hope I have expressed this in a way you do not find to be defensive or critical because I don't mean that. I mean, look around at all the cruise lines. It's okay if one or two or more are not for you but don't paint HAL generally as not good for anyone in your age range. :)

 

 

Yes, I am aware of the balconies, just saying that the percentage is so low relative to the newer ships and when planning the unique itineraries, I bet the would love to charge a higher per diem for a balcony. I have sailed on 2 smaller HAL ships, but much prefer to sail in a balcony so would choose their newer ships.

 

The reason I even commented on this thread was because HAL could be my line of choice if they would add something innovative to their brand. Again, not talking rock walls, movies on the pool deck, or ice skating rinks.... But some of the things mentioned in this thread would make it more appealing. I love cruising and really would love for HAL ships to be more appealing to me.

[kkorman]

This whole discussion reminds me of the movie "Dirty Dancing" where the owner lost sight of what turned the the new generation on.

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

Great analogy.

[cruz chic]

Age is irrelevant in this conversations... My point is HAL cannot fill their ships, even at below Carnival pricing. They need to attract cruisers by something other than providing a cheap cruise. They are not. I said they should be targeting me because I am as married as a gay guy can be in AZ with no kids who spends much of my disposable income on travel. This will not change any time soon. I certainly not trying to be arrogant, but saying that I am a desired demographic on premium cruise lines. My apologies that I did not explain that better. But my point again is they have done nothing to draw me to their brand. I would not have sailed on my recent Westerdam cruise had it not been for the incredibly cheap price over a holiday in which the ship did not sail full.

I think all cruise lines are having troubles filing their ships, not just HAL. With my present employer I get 30 days holidays and I spend all my holidays on cruises. I also drop quite a bit on board so I think I would also be a person that cruiselines would consider "desirable". I took a cruise on Celebrity this year and did not enjoy it. It would have to be almost free for me to go on another cruise with them. I'm pretty ok with that. I'm not expecting them to change to attract me. I really don't care. This is why I say every line doesn't have to be everything to everyone. I like Princess and HAL just fine they way they are and I really don't care how other lines conduct their business..

[kkorman]

I think all cruise lines are having troubles filing their ships, not just HAL. With my present employer I get 30 days holidays and I spend all my holidays on cruises. I also drop quite a bit on board so I think I would also be a person that cruiselines would consider "desirable". I took a cruise on Celebrity this year and did not enjoy it. It would have to be almost free for me to go on another cruise with them. I'm pretty ok with that. I'm not expecting them to change to attract me. I really don't care. This is why I say every line doesn't have to be everything to everyone. I like Princess and HAL just fine they way they are and I really don't care how other lines conduct their business..

 

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I sailed 4 cruises in 2012... 3 were completely full (2 Celebrity and 1 RCI -- all off peak). HAL was not and we traveled during a holiday week... even after lowering prices to $70/day for a balcony. I am not telling you that you have to like another cruise line... I am saying I want to like HAL more than I do. HAL has two choices... Make some innovative changes to their ships and experience and expand their base or keep it in neutral and have the lowest per diems and sail below capacity. I am in no way saying to make changes to alienate their base, but make changes to separate themselves in some way from everyone else.

[SeaBands]

and we have seen both male and female couples on every cruise. They also go some exclusive gay cruises and there doesn't seem a problem for gay cruisers. There are several LGBT meet and greet in the evening if you are interested.

[sail7seas]

We are going to have to agree to disagree. I sailed 4 cruises in 2012... 3 were completely full (2 Celebrity and 1 RCI -- all off peak). HAL was not and we traveled during a holiday week... even after lowering prices to $70/day for a balcony. I am not telling you that you have to like another cruise line... I am saying I want to like HAL more than I do. HAL has two choices... Make some innovative changes to their ships and experience and expand their base or keep it in neutral and have the lowest per diems and sail below capacity. I am in no way saying to make changes to alienate their base, but make changes to separate themselves in some way from everyone else.

 

 

You might wish to investigate HAL's RSVP charter cruises.

We read here they are great.

 

We've read a number of posts from people who rave about them and return time and again.

 

[cruisemom42]

HAL has two choices... Make some innovative changes to their ships and experience and expand their base or keep it in neutral and have the lowest per diems and sail below capacity. I am in no way saying to make changes to alienate their base, but make changes to separate themselves in some way from everyone else.

 

Very succinct and well said. I wonder if perhaps HAL management is struggling with this already. It will be interesting to see what choices they make about HAL's future direction.

[kkorman]

HAL is definitely gay friendly and RSVP is an excellent charter choice, but that is off topic. Me being gay is not my motivations for the comments I have made. In fact, I much prefer the diversity of people on non-charter. I am not making suggestions for making HAL better for gay cruisers, but how to attract more people, better the product, and be able to charge more for cruises.

[mariner]

HAL needs to decide will it remain mass-market and, if so, what can give it an advantage over the others. Being HAL ain't enough.

 

If not mass-market, then what? No way it's large ships can compete with the luxury lines. We got off of Seabourn last year. HAL not even close in so many respects.

 

Thirteen ships is a burden.

 

Many of you started cruising in your 40s. I started when I was 7.

 

Chandris Lines managed to stay in business for many years before becoming Celebrity. They offered very good food, diverse ports, very fine entertainment, reasonable drink prices all on very old ships (they were built in the 1940s and were sailing into the 1980s) that didnt even offer bathrooms in every cabin.

[sail7seas]

We sailed Celebrity before RCI bought them and had GREAT cruises.

We actually sailed with two of the Chandris brothers seated at the table beside us every night of our cruise. Because the gentleman in the other couple with whom we travel spoke fluid Greek and the four of us had the two Royal Suites, we had lots of conversations with them. Very interesting. We were disappointed the almost immediate change we saw our first cruise with "X" after the sale.

 

[mariner]

Chandris really knew how to cater to its market. And HAL competed with them then.

[sail7seas]

Chandris really knew how to cater to its market. And HAL competed with them then.

 

 

I agree. In those days, we used to sail both lines.

Depended on itinerary, availability, what our friends with whom we traveled wanted etc but we were happy to sail either.

 

RCI bought "X" and we no longer like the line and didn't return after the initial disappointing cruise. They seem to have gotten along just fine without us. :D

 

[mariner]

All the lines do. There are replacements for all of us with very different expectations.

[BruceMuzz]

If cruise lines cut service any further, go to pay-for-fee models for meals, entertainment, etc., there will be very little reason to choose cruising over land-based vacations, except for price. Bigger rooms, less hassles with trying to catch a ship with a 2:30 all-aboard time, and more attentive service will be able to be found on land.

 

It's getting to the point at which the major selling point of a cruise is that it is dirt cheap - that isn't exactly making your fellow pax a more gentile group.

 

Gentiles are non-Jewish people.

Is that what you meant to type?

[Hawaiidan]

I think there are many cruises who have no loyalty to any cruise line though they may like one more than another.

 

In this era, I may be wrong but I think a large percentage of the 'newer' cruisers pick their cruise first by price. Where they get the best 'bargain' is where they go. Many are willing to get less because they are paying so much less.

 

That leaves those who are paying more not so happy.

 

Well to be honest Holland America may be deeply discounting the 7to 14 day trade to entice new customers. However in the smaller ships on World, and Grand Voyager they charge as much or more than many luxury lines. Case in point, A 43 day Hong Kong to LA came in for an inside cabin, with tips tax, rt AIR, and mic ship board charges such as for liquor, soft drinks, coffees. to be around $19,800 or$ 460 a day for 170 sq ft.

Now On Oceania 50 days, rt air, tips taxes , all wine and drinks ( unlimited) extras came to $33,400.00 for an mid range veranda cabin 300 sq ft with a 100 sq ft verands.. ( twice the size) or $681 per cabin for a veranda luxury vs a mass market inside.

 

But you want to compare apples to apples... For a similiar veranda cabin on Holland they $34,600 with tips and taxes and $4800 in extra airfare.then add the on board extras on Holland you pay for than luxury lines do not charge for and your at $41,400 for the whole all things considered price.. thats $962 per cabin....Thats $281 more costly to take a Holland cabin than a Luxury line veranda...

 

Holland, is pocket mining its old long loyal customers who blindly assume they are geting the best deal. In reality they are payng for the discpount cruisers.

 

This year I canceled all future Holland cruises in favor of Oceaina and other like lines who give me way better return on my dollar

Do the math... add everything door to door and it is eye opening at the total cost!

[SilvertoGold]

Well to be honest Holland America may be deeply discounting the 7to 14 day trade to entice new customers. However in the smaller ships on World, and Grand Voyager they charge as much or more than many luxury lines. Case in point, A 43 day Hong Kong to LA came in for an inside cabin, with tips tax, rt AIR, and mic ship board charges such as for liquor, soft drinks, coffees. to be around $19,800 or$ 460 a day for 170 sq ft.

Now On Oceania 50 days, rt air, tips taxes , all wine and drinks ( unlimited) extras came to $33,400.00 for an mid range veranda cabin 300 sq ft with a 100 sq ft verands.. ( twice the size) or $681 per cabin for a veranda luxury vs a mass market inside.

 

But you want to compare apples to apples... For a similiar veranda cabin on Holland they $34,600 with tips and taxes and $4800 in extra airfare.then add the on board extras on Holland you pay for than luxury lines do not charge for and your at $41,400 for the whole all things considered price.. thats $962 per cabin....Thats $281 more costly to take a Holland cabin than a Luxury line veranda...

 

Holland, is pocket mining its old long loyal customers who blindly assume they are geting the best deal. In reality they are payng for the discpount cruisers.

 

This year I canceled all future Holland cruises in favor of Oceaina and other like lines who give me way better return on my dollar

Do the math... add everything door to door and it is eye opening at the total cost!

 

Depends on when you book, you know. Pricing changes; often even the kind of cruise you use for the example will go to a 5 day sale or Flash.

 

You are quite correct that some pay high and some pay low, the former paying for the latter. This is pretty much how it works on many lines, not just HAL. Ditto with airlines: an industry standard business practice. Be smart about your bookings and you will win, on any line.

[kangforpres]

The point of this tread was to see if anyone can come up with ideals how HAL can evolve and grow into something that appeals to more customers.

 

by industry standards mid-size ships are now 2,000 plus pax or the HAL Vista/Signature class. Maybe HAL should dump the smaller fleet and concentrate on improving the service on this size vessel and maybe add 2 more giving them about 8-10.

 

HAL closest competiors are Celebrity and Princess, although some people have been talking about jumping off HAL and onto Oceana and Crystal it seems most loyal HAL customers are not in that market.

 

I've only been tempted by the Lux market when they offer a 2 for 1 and free air. To compare with online pricing today

 

Oceana 10 day Italian Escape for a Veranda cabin is $5399pp, free air, $2000 OBC $999 credit up upgrade to business class on flight.

 

HAL 11 dat Med. Explorer is $3999 for an SC

 

Usually the interior price on the Lux cruise is more than a HAL customer would think about ever spending on a cruise.

[mariner]

But factor in with the lux lines your beverages are included, the meals are far superior and the tips are included. Combine your fare on HAL with onboard expenses and you're not too far off.

[sail7seas]

I think it's going to be very interesting to see the direction many of the 'leading cruiselines' take in the coming months/year. What worked 'yesterday' may not work today and tomorrow.

 

[RetiredMustang]

. ... Because the gentleman in the other couple with whom we travel spoke fluid Greek ...

 

Fluid Greek.... I've spoken that in Chania once, after three glasses of ouzo. :D (I think you meant "fluent" :D)

 

Really, about that time all my careful practice of modern Greek (which is not really the language I learned when studing Homer) leaked away and about all I could manage was "parakalo" (please) and "efkaristo" (thank you ... especially for the three ouzos:rolleyes:) ... and some totally random Italian/Neapolitan.

 

Dave

[Hawaiidan]

But factor in with the lux lines your beverages are included, the meals are far superior and the tips are included. Combine your fare on HAL with onboard expenses and you're not too far off.

 

Your $3999 for the Hal cruise does not include Air.. that a good $2000 coach, The tips $120, speciality restauraunt maybe 2 times $50.. Now your paying in reality and the real fare n Holland is $6169 that it is really costing you !!!

[sail7seas]

Your $3999 for the Hal cruise does not include Air.. that a good $2000 coach, The tips $120, speciality restauraunt maybe 2 times $50.. Now your paying in reality and the real fare n Holland is $6169 that it is really costing you !!!

 

 

Not everyone flies.

You are making an incorrect assumption........ in some cases.

 

[Hawaiidan]

The point of this tread was to see if anyone can come up with ideals how HAL can evolve and grow into something that appeals to more customers.

I've only been tempted by the Lux market when they offer a 2 for 1 and free air. To compare with online pricing today

 

Oceana 10 day Italian Escape for a Veranda cabin is $5399pp, free air, $2000 OBC $999 credit up upgrade to business class on flight.

 

HAL 11 dat Med. Explorer is $3999 for an SC

(with Air, tips, and tax and onboaed charges your really paying about $6200 !... $1000 more on Holland for a whole lot less.

 

Usually the interior price on the Lux cruise is more than a HAL customer would think about ever spending on a cruise.

 

Your paying $1000 pp more on Holland with a ship with 2 times the passengers My next Lux cruise in a veranda, larger than Hollands veranda , is over $250 a a day cheaper... You have to look at the whole pie... not the slice..