RCCL introduce Automatic Wage subsidy in Australia

[Mikey22]

RCCL have put auto tips/wage subsidy on all of their Ships including Australia.

That will be a good business plan down under.

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com.au/customersupport/faq/subject.do?snav=2&faqSubjectName=Gratuities&faqSubjectId=415&pnav=5

 

 

Just put the price of Cruising up in Australia and let the public decide with their Wallets and feet.

Australia has Laws where the full price of a product has to be up front and clear.

I wonder how adds ons like this will fly under the Law.

[NSWP]

RCCL have put auto tips/wage subsidy on all of their Ships including Australia.

That will be a good business plan down under.

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com.au/customersupport/faq/subject.do?snav=2&faqSubjectName=Gratuities&faqSubjectId=415&pnav=5

 

 

Just put the price of Cruising up in Australia and let the public decide with their Wallets and feet.

Australia has Laws where the full price of a product has to be up front and clear.

I wonder how adds ons like this will fly under the Law.

Just read that, but the site Royal Carib also states that you may take it off or reduce it, or words to that effect, like the AWS on other cruise lines, Princess, HAL, Celebrity etc.

 

Personally, if service is not to my expectations I have no qualms whatsoever of 'adjusting' our Automatic Wage Subsidy.

[Mikey22]

I prefer to tip directly Les, in fact I have doubts how much the individual staff get from automatic tips, the ones we have spoken to believe they get nothing.

So I will get double dipped now as I will pay automatically and still tip directly because I feel I should.

I imagine if I told our Cabin Steward and Waiters thanks for the good service but we gave at the office when we first get on they will not be to motivated.

[fishtaco]

I prefer to tip directly Les, in fact I have doubts how much the individual staff get from automatic tips, the ones we have spoken to believe they get nothing.

So I will get double dipped now as I will pay automatically and still tip directly because I feel I should.

I imagine if I told our Cabin Steward and Waiters thanks for the good service but we gave at the office when we first get on they will not be to motivated.

 

They would be as motivated as the waiters who serve those with My Time Dinning, you have to pay your tips in advance for MTD so no difference?

 

Den

[goodycruising]

I don't believe they get nothing. I believe there is a sharing arrangement with some of the support staff for the services they are providing, but this prepaying is supposed to be a way to ensure the guests are more consistent with their tips. I have been told a few strange stories by staff, and I think you may have too.

 

If you feel comfortable double paying your tips, totally your business, but there was a video here a while back where a disgruntled employee was saying that $1 was taken out of their share of the tips for both prepaid and presumedly paid tips (cash ones). This amount went to some staff that were helping with doing the towel and sheet washing or something.

 

In case you (or the flame throwers that come out on tipping threads) are wondering if I am one of these passengers that questions the staff on their personal financial setup, the strange stories were volunteered to me second last day to tug my heartstrings. Unfortunately with the internet these days, stories can be checked sometimes.

 

On my first cruise we did discuss the tipping with our waiter, and I felt he was also straight and honest about a number of other subjects, and I was happy to tip. I generally don't ask the staff where they are from unless they open the conversation by asking where we are from, and only then if I feel I have gotten to know them a little with a few dealings.

[fishtaco]

I don't believe they get nothing. I believe there is a sharing arrangement with some of the support staff for the services they are providing, but this prepaying is supposed to be a way to ensure the guests are more consistent with their tips. I have been told a few strange stories by staff, and I think you may have too.

 

If you feel comfortable double paying your tips, totally your business, but there was a video here a while back where a disgruntled employee was saying that $1 was taken out of their share of the tips for both prepaid and presumedly paid tips (cash ones). This amount went to some staff that were helping with doing the towel and sheet washing or something.

 

In case you (or the flame throwers that come out on tipping threads) are wondering if I am one of these passengers that questions the staff on their personal financial setup, the strange stories were volunteered to me second last day to tug my heartstrings. Unfortunately with the internet these days, stories can be checked sometimes.

 

On my first cruise we did discuss the tipping with our waiter, and I felt he was also straight and honest about a number of other subjects, and I was happy to tip. I generally don't ask the staff where they are from unless they open the conversation by asking where we are from, and only then if I feel I have gotten to know them a little with a few dealings.

 

Look a cruise seems to be a USA only right of passage invented by them with many and much cash tips a plenty given away willy nilly "Well Above the expected" and we are expected to follow suit:confused:

 

If you have ever been on a USA based cruise you will realize they dont tip nearly as much as they profess to and much less than they would at home!

 

Cruise domestic staff dont earn anywhere near as much at home as they do on a cruise ship!

 

Who cares how a cruise line dishes out tips to staff? When was the last time you or I asked the person at a Restaurant till how they divided the small change left in the tip jar? Its not my business to know and I dont care!

 

If I was short of cash i would remove tips because its better off to me in my pocket than somebody I dont know!

 

Den

[joejoe 59]

I prefer to tip directly Les, in fact I have doubts how much the individual staff get from automatic tips, the ones we have spoken to believe they get nothing.

So I will get double dipped now as I will pay automatically and still tip directly because I feel I should.

I imagine if I told our Cabin Steward and Waiters thanks for the good service but we gave at the office when we first get on they will not be to motivated.

 

On our recent VOS cruise we had prepaid tips which we prefer. We had wonderful service from our wait staff & our cabin steward who was very motivated at all times. We didnt feel guilty not paying them tips direct as we had already paid up front which was $320 for the 2 of us.

[fishtaco]

Look a cruise seems to be a USA only right of passage invented by them with many and much cash tips a plenty given away willy nilly "Well Above the expected" and we are expected to follow suit:confused:

 

If you have ever been on a USA based cruise you will realize they dont tip nearly as much as they profess to and much less than they would at home!

 

Cruise domestic staff dont earn anywhere near as much at home as they do on a cruise ship!

 

Who cares how a cruise line dishes out tips to staff? When was the last time you or I asked the person at a Restaurant till how they divided the small change left in the tip jar? Its not my business to know and I dont care!

 

If I was short of cash i would remove tips because its better off to me in my pocket than somebody I dont know!

 

Den

 

Sorry kjsmith63 the above was not directed at you or your comments,not sure why i quoted your post along with my rant:confused::o

 

Den

[NSWP]

I find the whole issue of tipping abhorrent. Akin to bribery. I don't even bother posting on the Tipping topics on the 'American boards' of CC, I get flamed, as they say. I was not born to tip, like most of us.

[christodan]

I booked a family cuise with them and we were exempt from the tipping because we had the special dining deal thing for kids but now I have to tip on behalf of my children too.

Whenever I go on holidays with the family or out to eat, I usually look after my own kids and clean up after them but now I'll just kick back and let the crew do their job.

[Sutho]

Do people seriously believe that the Americans who supposedly are the kings of tipping actually tip that well. Even the British claim to be extremely generous but the maths and figures do not seem to add up.

 

People claim that cruise line staff are poor.

 

Cruise lines charge over $10/day (unless its P&O UK).

 

If a cabin steward looks after ten cabins with twenty occupants and his cut is 60% of the tip then on a $10pp basis that is $120/day in gratuities not including the wage he gets from the cruise line

 

In the restaurant the waiters work in pairs and with multiple sittings and table sizes they could be looking after forty passengers a night. If their cut is 40% then that is $80 each per day.

 

Bear in mind that when the waiters are not in the dining room they are serving drinks and would be earning tips from bar service that is automatic from everyone. So a waiter is on $80+/day.

 

Then there is the behind the scens staff. Washing up will not take too many people. In the Navy they required one sailor to clean dishes for 300 sailors so the ratio on a cruise ship you are looking at no more than 8 crew to wash up.

 

If people tip above and beyond as they would have us believe then the crew must be making a killing in wages. Unless the cruise line is skimming for themselves.

 

The other issue is the cruise line is likely to have a system in place to cull the crews wages. There is no way come hell or high water would the cruise line ever allow a steward to earn more than the Captain and officers. So tips are surely not that generous. A cruise ship should pull in $20,000 a day for a 2000 passenger ship. There are probably around 100 cabin stewards for a 2000 passenger ship and 100 waiters. The remaining 400 odd would be made up of Officers, entertainers, engineers, hospital staff, casino staff, guest entertainers etc. All who should not be part of the tip pool. So if (lets be generous) 400 crew members out of the 800 were to be in line for the tip pool of $20,000 it would come to $50 per day.

 

The numbers dont seem to add up. It seems to me that the tip pool is probably funding a lot more crew than those who serve the passengers.

 

What people fail to realise is that there are stewards and waiters who work for the crew. The singers, dancers, officers all have cabin stewards. I think that these stewards are also part of the tip pool which is why cruise lines are against personalised tipping and prefer automatic tipping.

 

In my calculations if passengers tipped above and beyond as many claim to do (who I think are lying) then the crew would be making a killing in wages.

 

If the automatic tipping were honest then based on a passenger ratio to passenger crew the crew should be pulling in the top amounts I have calculated. If the entire crew a part of the tip pool then that means our so called tips are funding other staff who do not work for us and the automatic wage subsidy as it is called is a scam to avoid the cruise line having to pay its workers by stiffing the passengers for a few extre bucks to tip non essential crew who have never served them or have no relation to their onboard entertainment whatsoever.

[fishtaco]

Do people seriously believe that the Americans who supposedly are the kings of tipping actually tip that well. Even the British claim to be extremely generous but the maths and figures do not seem to add up.

 

People claim that cruise line staff are poor.

 

Cruise lines charge over $10/day (unless its P&O UK).

 

If a cabin steward looks after ten cabins with twenty occupants and his cut is 60% of the tip then on a $10pp basis that is $120/day in gratuities not including the wage he gets from the cruise line

 

In the restaurant the waiters work in pairs and with multiple sittings and table sizes they could be looking after forty passengers a night. If their cut is 40% then that is $80 each per day.

 

Bear in mind that when the waiters are not in the dining room they are serving drinks and would be earning tips from bar service that is automatic from everyone. So a waiter is on $80+/day.

 

Then there is the behind the scens staff. Washing up will not take too many people. In the Navy they required one sailor to clean dishes for 300 sailors so the ratio on a cruise ship you are looking at no more than 8 crew to wash up.

 

If people tip above and beyond as they would have us believe then the crew must be making a killing in wages. Unless the cruise line is skimming for themselves.

 

The other issue is the cruise line is likely to have a system in place to cull the crews wages. There is no way come hell or high water would the cruise line ever allow a steward to earn more than the Captain and officers. So tips are surely not that generous. A cruise ship should pull in $20,000 a day for a 2000 passenger ship. There are probably around 100 cabin stewards for a 2000 passenger ship and 100 waiters. The remaining 400 odd would be made up of Officers, entertainers, engineers, hospital staff, casino staff, guest entertainers etc. All who should not be part of the tip pool. So if (lets be generous) 400 crew members out of the 800 were to be in line for the tip pool of $20,000 it would come to $50 per day.

 

The numbers dont seem to add up. It seems to me that the tip pool is probably funding a lot more crew than those who serve the passengers.

 

What people fail to realise is that there are stewards and waiters who work for the crew. The singers, dancers, officers all have cabin stewards. I think that these stewards are also part of the tip pool which is why cruise lines are against personalised tipping and prefer automatic tipping.

 

In my calculations if passengers tipped above and beyond as many claim to do (who I think are lying) then the crew would be making a killing in wages.

 

If the automatic tipping were honest then based on a passenger ratio to passenger crew the crew should be pulling in the top amounts I have calculated. If the entire crew a part of the tip pool then that means our so called tips are funding other staff who do not work for us and the automatic wage subsidy as it is called is a scam to avoid the cruise line having to pay its workers by stiffing the passengers for a few extre bucks to tip non essential crew who have never served them or have no relation to their onboard entertainment whatsoever.

 

I agree on some of your points and on land at home americans do tip high as its done that way and living half my life in UK Brits do tip more "services" than Aussies even though Brits are pretty tight with the old purse string with "anything" else money related:D:D:D

 

So many US cruisers have the choice when booking a cruise of either free Tips or OBC plus a cheaper cruise than us in OZ because they use a PVP if booking direct and PVP,s are on a commission same as T/A.s

 

The US cruisers who tip "Over and above" usually have not paid any gratuities to start with! this is why RCI daily tip charge is being shunned so much, when its par for the course for us Aussies.

 

I will say on this thread as i have on many that the US cruisers i met on Carnival professed to paying zero tips and had no intention of ever doing so any time soon! Did I just attract a stiffing crowed of people only? NO.

 

I am sure if Aussies got free Grats thrown in with a cheap cruise price they would also be tipping "over and above"

 

You also cannot relate a south east Asian service workers wage structure on a cruise to our wage structure here in Australia and then feel guilt because their cost of living is so much lower than ours!

 

Take a look at all the expensive watches and i phones the service staff have and then think how hard done by they really are with working for a slave labour cruise line:rolleyes:

 

Den

[NSWP]

SUTHO, fair comment and I also agree with some of your points, HOWEVER, never mind about each cabin steward having 10 cabins to look after, the norm these days is 15 to 20 cabins per steward. Princess average is 18 and on Arcadia, our female steward had 20 cabins to look after, due to her work load she was on duty 6am to 2pm and 5pm to 10pm.

 

As I have said before the tipping system should be known as the 'Automatic Wage Subsidy.' The cruise lines expect the pax to make up the crews wage with tips.

 

The average cabin steward/MDR Waiter makes around $2000 per month on the ships, that is all up pay from the line, made up with $ from the gratuity pool. The staff get provded with medical cover, food, bed, etc. Most of them send the bulk of their money home. Remember the countries these staff come from: India, Chile, Thailand, Phillipines, Mexico, Eastern European countries etc, $2000 per month is a King's ransom in their own country, sort of money a doctor or lawyer might get. Yes they work hard, but the pay is not bad. Sorry to repeat this, many of us on here have heard it all before.

 

Have a good day everyone, I have to nick down the post office soon, to get my NZ Dollars I ordered, to pay my automatic wage subsidy on Celebrity Solstice next week and to spend in NZ. Ooo Roo.

[christodan]

So does that mean I don't tip in the specialty dining room now?

What about if my kids are in the kids program, am I supposed to tip the child carers?

 

Too much confusion for me.

[Sutho]

It means that your tips are not tipping just the crew that look after you. There is a tip pool that pays ALL the ships crew. That means the stewards that make up the singers, dancers, entertainers rooms get your tips. It also means the cooks and stewards and waiters who work below deck for the crew get your tips. It means that your auto tip (now others call it the automatic wage subsidy) are going into a massive money pool and being divided up amonst ALL the crew.

 

That is why there is fierce debate about it. Some people only want to tip people who look after them (which is fair) as that is what a tip is. Where as the automatic system gives cash out to everyone and people who do not even look after you or contribute to your enjoyment of the cruise.

[bazzaw]

ANOTHER tipping thread!! Ho Hum -- boring! I wonder what the weather is like outside today -- Oh! I know. It's c***.

 

Barry

[christodan]

Oh so we're not allowed to discuss something because someone might be bored. If we operate like then we probably won't be able to talk about anything in case it bores somebody, somewhere on the www.

 

If I come across a thread that is boring to me, I usually don't bore myself even more by reading it and commenting how boring it is. That's the good thing about titles on threads, you can save yourself the boredom of reading it because you know what the topic is.

But by clicking on the thread and then commenting on a topic that bores you, not only are you boring youself even more but then you're boring others too by contributing nothing except how boring it is and we already know that, but some of us need to discuss it because we're worried about doing the wrong thing by the staff.

 

I hope you find my post contributes as little to the thread as yours did.

[bazzaw]

Oh so we're not allowed to discuss something because someone might be bored. If we operate like then we probably won't be able to talk about anything in case it bores somebody, somewhere on the www.

 

If I come across a thread that is boring to me, I usually don't bore myself even more by reading it and commenting how boring it is. That's the good thing about titles on threads, you can save yourself the boredom of reading it because you know what the topic is.

But by clicking on the thread and then commenting on a topic that bores you, not only are you boring youself even more but then you're boring others too by contributing nothing except how boring it is and we already know that, but some of us need to discuss it because we're worried about doing the wrong thing by the staff.

 

I hope you find my post contributes as little to the thread as yours did.

 

One day, after you have been here for a while, you will also be very bored by tipping threads. I am so bored with them that I have to relieve the boredom by telling you how boring I find them to be. :D You'll learn! :o

 

Barry

[NSWP]

But Barry Bazzaw, a lot of new cruisers or those trying different cruise lines get a lot out of the tipping threads. CC is a learning tool as well as entertainment.

 

I find them quite exciting. Except when I get shot down in flames on the American boards. Which is quite often on a range of issues, add dress codes to tipping. LOL.

 

Let us talk about something really exciting like, wait for it Bas... 'Class distinction on the Cunarders.' LOL.

[bazzaw]

But Barry Bazzaw, a lot of new cruisers or those trying different cruise lines get a lot out of the tipping threads. CC is a learning tool as well as entertainment.

 

I find them quite exciting. Except when I get shot down in flames on the American boards. Which is quite often on a range of issues, add dress codes to tipping. LOL.

 

Let us talk about something really exciting like, wait for it Bas... 'Class distinction on the Cunarders.' LOL.

 

No class distinctions on Cunard Les :D

 

But a good "tip" (apart from -- be nice to your wife) for any newcomers wanting to know about "tipping" on cruiseships is that they can do a SEARCH in this forum using words like TIP, TIPPING, GRATUITY, GRATUITIES and they will be AMAZED how much info (and personal opinions) are out there just waiting for somebody to read them. :D

 

Barry

[NSWP]

No class distinctions on Cunard Les :D

 

But a good "tip" (apart from -- be nice to your wife) for any newcomers wanting to know about "tipping" on cruiseships is that they can do a SEARCH in this forum using words like TIP, TIPPING, GRATUITY, GRATUITIES and they will be AMAZED how much info (and personal opinions) are out there just waiting for somebody to read them. :D

 

Barry

Come on Barry, of course there are 'class distinctions on Cunard. You eat according to how much you pay for your cabin, i.e. Queens Grill, Princess Grill, Britannia. Also a 'posh lounge' for those who pay plenty. The Heart Surgeons in Suites who pay $600 a night don't want to eat with the truck drivers in inside cabins who pay $190 a night.

 

Mate, I have to let you know, I have no tuxedo anymore, for me blazer and strides for formals on Celebrity Solstice and I got flamed for that, elsewhere.

 

Oo Roo old son.

[fishtaco]

One day, after you have been here for a while, you will also be very bored by tipping threads. I am so bored with them that I have to relieve the boredom by telling you how boring I find them to be. :D You'll learn! :o

 

Barry

 

lol :D:D:D

[fishtaco]

Oh so we're not allowed to discuss something because someone might be bored. If we operate like then we probably won't be able to talk about anything in case it bores somebody, somewhere on the www.

 

If I come across a thread that is boring to me, I usually don't bore myself even more by reading it and commenting how boring it is. That's the good thing about titles on threads, you can save yourself the boredom of reading it because you know what the topic is.

But by clicking on the thread and then commenting on a topic that bores you, not only are you boring youself even more but then you're boring others too by contributing nothing except how boring it is and we already know that, but some of us need to discuss it because we're worried about doing the wrong thing by the staff.

 

I hope you find my post contributes as little to the thread as yours did.

 

You will learn after a few cruise critic posts that some (ME:p) love tipping threads and others hate them so much they just feel the need to tell you they hate them:D

 

Too many people get way too carried away with how hard done by cruise service staff are (Not Me) an profess to tip the old "Over recommended" when in actual fact they dont even tip the "recommended" lol

 

I like auto tips and think its fair to all staff, I pay auto tips because I can afford to factor tips into my cruise, but lets get honest here, who normally would dish out $12 per day every day for every family member in tips on a holiday?

 

14 night cruise quad share Mum Dad and 2 kids in one cabin all meals "included" in the price of the cruise and you will gladly leave an Envelope containing $672 last night for great service, not only that you gave out extra dosh to everyone who served you well, So Dads tip bill would be a bargain price of around $800, or $57 a day lol its is so unrealistic it is mind boggling!

 

Personally I like to tip $20,s when I wear my Tux on Formal nights but I buy draught beer because it lowers my final bill :D:D:D

[Sutho]

I personally think the people who shout the loudest on the subject and the ones telling others to tip, suggesting the amoung and becoming abusive to those that do not tip are usually the tightest and the ones that do not tip themselves. That is my honest opinion. Its like the murderer who keeps professing his innocence.

 

I was on facebook today and someone shared a photo on their profile about the economics in America. I think the story probably an political propagenda invention kind of relates to the views between those who are for the automatic system and those who are against it.

 

I will copy and paste it here:

 

An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no... one would be rich, a great equalizer.

 

The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan".. All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all).

 

After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.

 

The second test average was a D! No one was happy.

When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.

 

As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else.

 

To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. Could not be any simpler than that. (Please pass this on) These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment:

 

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

 

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

 

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

 

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

 

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.

 

Can you think of a reason for not sharing this?

Neither could I.See more

 

I copied that from the photo doing the rounds on facebook. As you can see it gets into the mindset of the American system and how their tipping culture works. To me it indicates the ones who do not like auto tipping are the ones that think the service will drop if all share in the tip. Then there are those who think individuals should be rewarded for their performance.

 

I only copied this because I think it gets directly into the mindset of the pro and anti auto tipping debate.

[Mikey22]

I think I will just keep doing what we always do, I am happy with that and that is all that counts I guess.