Nautical Question to ponder

[RedmondCruiser]

Watching the 2000 movie Titanic, they see the iceberg and yell "hard a starboard" --- and the helmsman turns to Port ?? Not to be outdone, in the 1950s movie "A Night to Remember" with Kenneth Moore, the same instruction is given and the helmsman turns to Port. This also happens in the original Titanic movie with Cliffton Web. Does anyone know the answer??

What am I missing here ?

[VallyD]

I believe "back then" turning hard starboard would actually move the (forget, not a rudder, and not a professional, some other mechanical feature) to make the ship turn to portside ? :confused:

 

I have just gotten in to reading about these things but I did recall something about it in a book I had gotten out of the library on the Eurodam that I can't remember the name of for the life of me.

[VallyD]

Copper 10-8 is your man for this stuff! He should straighten it out shortly lol!

[catl331]

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiller regarding "tiller orders"

 

"A well-known and often-depicted example occurred on the RMS Titanic in 1912 just before she collided with an iceberg. When the iceberg appeared directly in front of the ship, her officer-of-the-watch, First Officer William Murdoch, decided to attempt to clear the iceberg by swinging the ship to its port side. He ordered 'Hard-a-Starboard', which was a Tiller Order directing the helmsman to turn the wheel to port (anti-clockwise) as far as it would go. The Titanic's steering gear then pushed the tiller toward the starboard side of the ship, swinging the rudder over to port and causing the vessel to turn to port. These actions are faithfully portrayed in the 1997 film of the disaster. Although frequently described as an error, the order was given and executed correctly— the vessel struck the iceberg anyway.[7][8]"

[Kesstral]

Watching the 2000 movie Titanic, they see the iceberg and yell "hard a starboard" --- and the helmsman turns to Port ?? Not to be outdone, in the 1950s movie "A Night to Remember" with Kenneth Moore, the same instruction is given and the helmsman turns to Port. This also happens in the original Titanic movie with Cliffton Web. Does anyone know the answer??

 

What am I missing here ?

 

 

This is what I got off Wikipedia :)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_and_starboard

 

The nautical reason for a "hard a-starboard" command to turn left seems related to the tiller and not the rudder. A tiller is pushed to the right, or starboard, to apply left rudder and turn the vessel to the left.

 

According to some other sites I found it sounds like the command "sounded" backwards because as VallyD said, the helmsmen would have to move the ship left by "steering" the tiller to the right.

 

Here's another quote about it: http://kakopa.com/sailing/titanic_mistake.htm

 

Traditionally orders and references to the helm were referred to the tiller and not to the rudder and that is the way it still is on most small sailboats. "Helm hard to starboard" means the tiller is to starboard which means the rudder is to port and the ship will be turning to port. Even after ships had steering wheels or other mechanical means of handling the tiller the orders and other references anways referred to the tiller. To turn the tiller to starboard the wheel is turned to port so there is no contradiction.

 

I also found this in the UK Merchant Shipping (Safety and Load Line Conventions) Act 1932 which appears to change the way orders would be given:

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/22-23/9/section/29/enacted

 

Method of giving helm orders

 

(1)No person on any British ship registered in the United Kingdom shall when the ship is going ahead give a helm or steering order containing the word " starboard " or " right" or any equivalent of " starboard" or " right", unless he intends that the head of the ship shall move to the right, or give a helm or steering order containing the word " port" or " left", or any equivalent of " port " or " left ", unless he intends that the head of the ship shall move to the left.

[KirkNC]

There you go. I assumed it was just another inaccuracy in movies.

[indokiwi]

There you go. I assumed it was just another inaccuracy in movies.

 

With all of the press after Titanic and also after Avatar about how much of a control freak James Cameron is about things, I wasn't too surprised to read that wikipedia entry that catl331 posted saying that the movie got it right. :D

[VallyD]

See what do I know lmbo! Thanks ya'll!

[TiogaCruiser]

Got an opportunity to sail on San Diego Maritime Musuem's Californian a few years back. We ALL were expected stand watch and to take turns at the helm. My only, itty bitty experience was some 25 years ago in 7 and 14 foot dinghies.

 

Those in the group who had never sailed picked it up right away.

It took forever to switch thinking from tiller to wheel. We were to keep within 6 degrees of our bearing- and I kept switching back to Tiller thinking when the boat responded to a wave or a gust. (And 100+ feet of wooden ship does not respond quickly like a racing dinghy). Yikes! It's a good thing our Mate was patient.

[sammygoose]

Got an opportunity to sail on San Diego Maritime Musuem's Californian a few years back. We ALL were expected stand watch and to take turns at the helm. My only, itty bitty experience was some 25 years ago in 7 and 14 foot dinghies.

 

Those in the group who had never sailed picked it up right away.

It took forever to switch thinking from tiller to wheel. We were to keep within 6 degrees of our bearing- and I kept switching back to Tiller thinking when the boat responded to a wave or a gust. (And 100+ feet of wooden ship does not respond quickly like a racing dinghy). Yikes! It's a good thing our Mate was patient.

 

Oh yeah..........I drive the pontoon boat with a steering wheel just fine. The 14 foot punt with the outboard so so and if it gets dicey and I panic...wham into the weeds...off roading with the 4 ways on. :mad:

[trvlcrzy]

There's also a story from a surviving officer's family that new designs of the Titanic impacted the order... and that the ship turned the opposite of what was expected because of the design differences.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1314202/Titanic-book-The-secret-criminal-blunder-led-ships-sinking.html

 

I love reading all about the Titanic, but I can't claim any knowledge of the validity of this woman's claims. The original story I read, though, said that it was a scandalous family secret only revealed after her grandfather's death.

[TiogaCruiser]

While sailing down the southern coast of Chile (I think in the straight of Magellan?) captain Bos told us a story about a ship that was passed who was on her side (picture Concordia). She was a passenger ship on her first voyage. The pilot had just boarded and gave instructions to the captain, who acknowledged same by saying "all right then." The person at the conn took it to mean turn right and so executed said order and put them onto the edge of an island. Since hen, they now use port and starboard exclusively.

[mariner]

In the day, it was based of the direction of the stern.

 

 

If you ever get the chance to be on the bridge docking, you'll see. Captains pay more attention aft.