Recycling ship names

[Vic The Parrot]

one of them was later cancelled by Carnival and reallocated to Cunard, I believe as Queen Victoria

 

 

 

'IF' there will be a Queen Victoria......

 

That thing has been in the planning stages for years, and now they say QV won't be ready til Dec 2007.

 

:rolleyes:

 

 

Which means one good thing ..... QE2 gets to sail for another year!

 

 

:)

[Druke I]

Actually, the 5th Vista hull, although initially allocated to Cunard as Queen Victoria, was completed (with some design changes) as P&O's Arcadia.

 

P&O "one-upped" HAL, and did put self-serve laundromats on the ship, something sorely lacking on HAL's Vista class.

[bepsf]

Where did you read this Brian?

 

Doug--

Actually read it in my copy of "The 125 Year History of Holland America"

(bought it off eBay from a gentleman in England)

The history of HAL naming ships in series w/ the same first letters goes back to the 20's with their cargo vessels.

The points of the compass names were also used in the late 30's w/ combi cargo/passenger vessels - although Zuiderdam and Westerdam were unfinished before being sunk during WWII, (Zuiderdam subsequently being scrapped)

BTW - Ryndam (1) was originally spelled Rijndam until HAL in the 20's changed all spellings of the Dutch "ij" to the English "y" for all ships - particularly their cargo ships which ended in "-dijk"; they became "-dyk"

[dougnewmanatsea]

Doug, correct me if I'm wrong but weren't there originally supposed to have been five Vista class ships for HAL (one of them was later cancelled by Carnival and reallocated to Cunard, I believe as Queen Victoria).

Actually, there were supposed to be six of them!

 

Numbers one, two and three, went to HAL (ZU, OS, WE). Number four was to be QUEEN VICTORIA but was re-re-allocated to P&O Cruises and is now their ARCADIA. Number five goes to HAL (NO). Number six was cancelled (as a "consolation prize", Carnival placed a load of other ship orders with Fincantieri).

 

I haven't the foggiest idea what they planned on calling numbers five and six - something like NOORDOOSTERDAM would have been a bit confusing, not to mention ungainly ;) .

 

PS: You have more e-mail.

 

Actually read it in my copy of "The 125 Year History of Holland America"

Author, publisher please :) ?

 

The points of the compass names were also used in the late 30's w/ combi cargo/passenger vessels

Ah, yes, but only three of the four ships had "compass" names - inexplicably, the fourth name used was ZAANDAM.

 

This is why the name OOSTERDAM was never used before.

 

BTW - Ryndam (1) was originally spelled Rijndam until HAL in the 20's changed all spellings of the Dutch "ij" to the English "y" for all ships - particularly their cargo ships which ended in "-dijk"; they became "-dyk"

I said exactly the same thing above, but Stephen corrected me :) . Apparently RYNDAM was always spelled RYNDAM, though I believe you are correct about the -DIJK/-DYK.

[bepsf]

Doug--

This is my source:

"125 Years of Holland America Line"

H.A. Dalkmann & A.J. Schoonderbeek

The Pentland Press LTD - 1998

I hate to be the one to prove Stephen incorrect, but Rijndam (1) was named in 1901 and the spelling changes didn't occur until well after WW1. It was even commissioned as USS Rijndam by the US Navy for WWI, and can be seen in this photograph prior to that in her HAL colors during WW1 with the neutrality lettering on its side:

 

As to the points of compass naming - I guess I was thinking of the four cargo ships from the teens...

[Copper10-8]

Thanks for the info, Doug and Druke!

[PRINSENDAM]

Doug--

 

This is my source:

 

"125 Years of Holland America Line"

H.A. Dalkmann & A.J. Schoonderbeek

The Pentland Press LTD - 1998

 

I hate to be the one to prove Stephen incorrect, but Rijndam (1) was named in 1901 and the spelling changes didn't occur until well after WW1. It was even commissioned as USS Rijndam by the US Navy for WWI, and can be seen in this photograph prior to that in her HAL colors during WW1 with the neutrality lettering on its side:

 

 

 

Brian,

 

Ah! You can't get off with it as easy as posting a single photograph!;)

 

 

Please read the following:

 

 

 

The RYNDAM was an 12,340 gross top ship built by Harland & Wolff, Belfast in 1901 for the Holland America Line. Her details were - length 550.3ft x beam 62.3ft., one funnel, two masts, twin screw and a speed of 15 knots. There was accomodation for 285 first, 196 second , and 1,800 third class passengers. Launched on May 19, 1901, she sailed from Rotterdam on her maiden voyage to New York on October 10, 1901. On January 18, 1916 she was damaged by a mine in the North Sea, was repaired in Rotterdam and resumed the Rotterdam - New York service. On March 21, 1918 she was requisitioned by the US government for transport services, released in october 1919 and resumed the Rotterdam - New York service on July 21, 1920.

 

Although the name was spelled as "Ryndam" by the builders, it should have been "Rijindam." This was never amended; however it was spelled this way in large white letters on the ship's side during WW1 for identification purposes. The Ryndam was scrapped in 1929 at Hendrick Ido Ambacht.

 

 

I hope that explains the situation? Harland & Wolff list the ship as RYNDAM and I have a photo somewhere of the ship leaving the builders yard in 1901 with the spelling as RYNDAM. I also understand that the NY newspaper passenger ship arrival information (Pre WW1_ also list the ship as RYNDAM.

 

I'm sure I've seen a close up photo of the ship as a US transport and the name RYNDAM is on the bow and RIJNDAM is on the sides. Now, was she commissioned as USS RYNDAM or USS RIJNDAM? That is the real question!

 

Best,

 

Stephen

[PRINSENDAM]

The following is the headline for the feature story in the NY Times 1901 re RYNDAM's maiden arrival at New York in October 1901. I doubt if they would have spelt the ship's name wrong. (Doug... we are talking 1901 not 2005 ;)

 

 

NEW HOLLAND-AMERICA LINER.; The Ryndam Arrives in Port on Her Maiden Transatlantic Trip.New York Times (1857-Current file). New York, N.Y.: Oct 21, 1901. pg. 11, 1 pgs

 

 

I have not been able to download the story. Doug?

 

Stephen

[bepsf]

Now, was she commissioned as USS RYNDAM or USS RIJNDAM? That is the real question!

 

Best,

 

Stephen

 

Stephen--

I believe she was commissioned as USS Rijndam - see the letterhead of the attached discharge letter written by the ships commanding officer in 1919:

Perhaps I pursuade you to join us for a drink aboard Noordam in February to discuss this further? ;)

[RevNeal]

I'm staying out of this one, other than to post the following link. You two might find this page helpful:

 

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/sh-usn/usnsh-r/id2505.htm

 

I'll buy you BOTH that drink on the Noordam. :)

[dougnewmanatsea]

I have not been able to download the story. Doug?

I should be able to download it, but can't post it here as our rules prohibit copying copyrighted materials.

 

However, you have sufficiently convinced me that the name has always been RYNDAM, even if it was a "typo" on the part of the yard!

[PRINSENDAM]

I should be able to download it, but can't post it here as our rules prohibit copying copyrighted materials.

 

However, you have sufficiently convinced me that the name has always been RYNDAM, even if it was a "typo" on the part of the yard!

 

 

 

 

Doug,

 

Not 'always'! It seems that the ship was indeed launched and named RYNDAM and that when war broke out in 1914 the name RIJNDAM was painted on the sides of the ship for identification purposes. (Possibly someone thought that a U-boat commander might be more sympathetic towards a ship with a Germanic sounding name? Might have totally confused an Allied commander through!) When the ship was commissioned into the USN she was designated USS RIJNDAM and followinging her return to HAL in 1919 she reverted to her original name.

 

Thanks Brian. I think between us we have unravelled the mystery of the Rhine!

 

NOORDAM on 23rd February... OCEAN BAR.... at NOON! It's going to get crowded!:)

 

Stephen

[bepsf]

Who am I to refuse an invitation to cocktails?

;)

[PRINSENDAM]

Who am I to refuse an invitation to cocktails?

;)

 

 

My sentiments exactly! Perhaps we should meet in the Olive Pit.

 

Rev Neal! Care to join us there?

 

Stephen

[Vic The Parrot]

The Olive Pit??

 

C'mon guys!

 

A room with a view .... Ocean Bar, Crows Nest, the aft pool bar..

 

 

What good is discussing a ship without looking at the water?

That atrium bar is nice, but it reminds me of a hotel lobby.

Might as well have those drinks in the atrium of the Times Square Marriott.

 

:rolleyes: :D

[bepsf]

I assumed that the Olive Pit is the corner of the Ocean Bar where there is a big round section of built-in in seating in one of the bay windows nest to the bar?

 

Am I wrong?

[RevNeal]

My sentiments exactly! Perhaps we should meet in the Olive Pit.

 

Rev Neal! Care to join us there?

 

Join you? I'm buying the first round! :D

But let's make it the Ocean Bar ... that small area near the bar where one can talk without having to scream. :D

[PRINSENDAM]

Join you? I'm buying the first round! :D

But let's make it the Ocean Bar ... that small area near the bar where one can talk without having to scream. :D

 

 

Ok, I'll give in. Ocean Bar it is.

 

 

The Olive Pit.... is that small bar below the stairs in the Atrium. Well kept secret. Usually empty but if you care to use it you get the undivided attention of the bar tender... and he sometimes does martini classes!!!!!!!

 

On three Vista cruises Ruth and I would head down there after boat drill to avoid all the crowds heading up to their cabins to return lifejackets. On Westerdam we did the 'routine'... met up with a few other fun passengers... at at 8pm we were still there.:eek: We did make dinner... just! Someone was kind enough to take the lifejackets back to the cabin for us.

 

Shocking behaviour I know, but it sure was fun!

 

Stephen

[bepsf]

Ahhhh - I always wondered what they called that!

 

Ya know, that space would make a really good Champagne Bar...

;)

[PRINSENDAM]

Ahhhh - I always wondered what they called that!

 

 

Ya know, that space would make a really good Champagne Bar...

;)

 

 

Yes, champagne & caviar bar.... or preferably vodka and caviar bar!

 

Religiously, whenever Ruth and I order caviar on board we ask for two frozen vodkas. For some reason HAL are never able to serve up a really good frozen vodka in iced glasses... with the caviar. On QE2 it is a normal request and the glasses come ditting in a bowl of crush ice. On the Pacific Princess you could order caviar and champagne, with all the trimmings, at the bar close by the dining room. On the REMBRANDT, caviar could be ordered up in the Sky Room before dinner, served up by white gloved stewards with champagne in old HAL ice buckets! There is $$$$ to be made on this. Not a treat for every evening but at least once a cruise.

 

Stephen

[bepsf]

Ohhh - that sounds decadent!

This is one 'revenue generator' that I wouldn't mind...

Sounds like we need to shoot an e-mail to someone in Seattle!

;)

[PRINSENDAM]

Ohhh - that sounds decadent!

This is one 'revenue generator' that I wouldn't mind...

 

Sounds like we need to shoot an e-mail to someone in Seattle!

;)

 

 

Yeah! Inch of gold or ounce of caviar!!!!!

 

Stephen

[bepsf]

Stephen--

 

Who do we tell in Seattle that the "Yards of Gold" and boxes of "Caribbean Rum-Balls" (Made in Indiana) in the giftshop are just too tacky for words???

[bcc99]

boxes of "Caribbean Rum-Balls" (Made in Indiana)

 

Hey, now...our troubled, backward, low-tech Hoosier economy needs your support. :D

[Vic The Parrot]

Hey, now...our troubled, backward, low-tech Hoosier economy needs your support. :D

 

 

What's the difference between 'Hoosier' and 'Hoser'?

 

 

:confused: ;)