No dress up

[LetsGetWet!]

For what its worth, on our recent cruise on the Indy, a guy showed to the MDR up with a wife-beater on and was not allowed entry. Despite his protests, he was turned away.

Its always humorous, in a pathetic sort of way, to watch those types loudly protest that somehow they should be allowed to completely ignore the posted rules and do whatever they want - after all, "its their vacation and they've paid for it", right? :rolleyes:

Edited March 14, 2014 by LetsGetWet!

[ryano]

What I find odd is when I first started posting in this RCI forum back in 2009 I was big time pro Formal night (still am) and I made the mistake of saying if you dont want to dress formally, go to the windjammer (no longer do that). I was a newbie at cruising and thought the tradition was wonderful and that everyone should at least make an attempt.

 

BIG MISTAKE! :eek: I felt like everyone on this whole forum came down on me for those remarks. I decided to heck with it. If you cant beat them, join them. I no longer care what people wear. Just please wear something. I will be in my tux but I dont care if you wear shorts, you are welcome at my table.

 

Funny thing is, I wonder where all the fashion police were then? :confused: Certainly wasnt anyone coming to my defense!

[CruiseTobey]

Typical response... Nothing for me to "get out of." He most definitely didn't say it would "ruin his cruise" or even "ruin his dinner", did he? No he didn't, far from it... :rolleyes: What "psycho-babble" will you use to try to claim otherwise?

 

"Typical response", with no real point to be seen. One word: semantics. Sucks to backed into a corner, huh?

 

Good night everyone.

Edited March 14, 2014 by CruiseTobey

[LetsGetWet!]

What I find odd is when I first started posting in this RCI forum back in 2009 I was big time pro Formal night (still am) and I made the mistake of saying if you dont want to dress formally, go to the windjammer (no longer do that). I was a newbie at cruising and thought the tradition was wonderful and that everyone should at least make an attempt.

 

BIG MISTAKE! :eek: I felt like everyone on this whole forum came down on me for those remarks. I decided to heck with it. If you cant beat them, join them. I no longer care what people wear. Just please wear something. I will be in my tux but I dont care if you wear shorts, you are welcome at my table.

 

Funny thing is, I wonder where all the fashion police were then? :confused: Certainly wasnt anyone coming to my defense!

The "fashion police" moniker is one I always find amusing. I'd never try to claim here that tuxes or even dark suits are mandatory for formal nights. That's not only not true, but a losing battle anyway. Like you, I wish everyone were polite and well-mannered enough to follow the suggested guidelines and have certainly stated as much. After all, if that's not what RCI preferred, they'd never bother mentioning it in the first place. But if passengers choose not to follow those suggestions, its certain they won't be turned away from the MDR on formal nights - they're suggestions, not mandatory.

 

However - whatever the opposite is of "fashion police" here keep trying to pretty much tell new cruisers that ask that shorts, flip flops, ball caps etc are "just fine" in the MDR, using the tact of "I've done it and gotten away with it so its obviously fine." That's doing a disservice to those new cruisers and being less than honest in the process. comxkid stated very well what the true, honest answer is to questions about that previously.

per information provided on the RCCL website and on the ships themselves, shorts of any kind are not permitted in the MDR for dinner. There are examples where gentlemen wearing dress shorts have been allowed access to the MDR but there are also examples where gentlemen have been turned away. IMO, I wouldn't want to take the risk on being that gentlemen who is stopped at the door in front of everyone and asked to return to my stateroom and change.

[graphicguy]

I've always wondered if such posts are disingenuous or ignorant, I favor the former.

 

It is quite apparent that "group dressing" is something that people enjoy as evidenced by the fact that it exists for wedding, banquets, benefits, proms, etc. There's something pleasant about seeing others dressed up and it creates a sense of community and togetherness. As you are surely aware dress codes do exist and do so for a reason.

 

Furthermore many people including myself have posted that it does indeed decrease our enjoyment (not a lot mind you.) It is not necessary for you to understand why this is but you should accept it and move on. Many customs and mores are not based on any "tangible argument." (not sure how you can feel an argument unless it's a fight I guess.)

 

So while I can understand why some people simply do not want to make the effort despite knowing they will be bothering others, let's please not pretend that we don't have the "right" to be bothered. And yes cutting in line is a more severe offense in my opinion but the example is valid qualitatively if not quantitatively.

 

There's a dress code in my office as at most offices. Why? Can it be explained logically?

 

I've stated before that how someone else dresses doesn't affect me in the slightest. And, I'm not trying to minimize your view.

 

HOWEVER (you knew that was coming;)), as you state, somehow, not seeing someone dressed up decreases your enjoyment. The other side of that coin, having to dress up to ADD to your enjoyment may very well decrease the enjoyment of the person(s) who have to dress up for you.

 

We can go around and around and around on this in the same way. It's not going to make anyone change. I'm certainly not going back to packing a tux, or even a suit, for that matter.

 

You bring up weddings, proms, etc. What most fail to realize, a cruise is not a formal affair. It's a vacation.

 

Again, dress up if you want. It doesn't change the ambiance, or the food, or the service I receive....formal night, casual night, MDR....anywhere.

 

You put 2K, 3K, 4K+ on a ship, and not everyone is going to agree with everyone else Understand that and I believe all will be much happier.

 

And please, quit calling "A" or "T" shirts "wife beaters". I wear them under my shirts, as do many, many other men. None of us are "wife beaters". It's just a rude term. In return, I won't comment on those who attempt to squeeze their ample and substantial posteriors into sequence dresses and believe they are "formal".

[LetsGetWet!]

I've stated before that how someone else dresses doesn't affect me in the slightest. And, I'm not trying to minimize your view.

 

HOWEVER (you knew that was coming;)), as you state, somehow, not seeing someone dressed up decreases your enjoyment. The other side of that coin, having to dress up to ADD to your enjoyment may very well decrease the enjoyment of the person(s) who have to dress up for you.

Agreed. But as for the specifically prohibited items like shorts, flip flops, hats, undershirts etc - they should be prepared to accept the requisite decrease in their enjoyment. (Totally different from not adhering to "suggested" attire for formal night.)

And please, quit calling "A" or "T" shirts "wife beaters". I wear them under my shirts, as do many, many other men. None of us are "wife beaters". It's just a rude term. In return, I won't comment on those who attempt to squeeze their ample and substantial posteriors into sequence dresses and believe they are "formal".

Yep, maybe we should just call them what they generally are worn for - undershirts. No underwear as outerwear in the MDR! What's a "sequence dress?" I've honestly never heard that term. Do you mean sequined dress?

Edited March 14, 2014 by LetsGetWet!

[graphicguy]

Agreed. But as for the specifically prohibited items like shorts, flip flops, hats, undershirts etc - they should be prepared to accept the requisite decrease in their enjoyment. (Totally different from not adhering to "suggested" attire for formal night.)

 

Yep, maybe we should just call them what they generally are worn for - undershirts. No underwear as outerwear in the MDR! What's a "sequence dress?" I've honestly never heard that term. Do you mean sequined dress?

 

We're violently in agreement.

 

LOL....you mean you didn't know what I meant? Dresses that are worn in sequence?:D

 

Yes, I meant sequined dress.

[LetsGetWet!]

We're violently in agreement.

 

LOL....you mean you didn't know what I meant? Dresses that are worn in sequence?:D

 

Yes, I meant sequined dress.

No violence please! :D

 

And, looking at your past cruises, I'm wondering if its a good idea to not book a particular ship the week AFTER you cruise on it? :D

[graphicguy]

No violence please! :D

 

And, looking at your past cruises, I'm wondering if its a good idea to not book a particular ship the week AFTER you cruise on it? :D

 

Good point.

[DrD]

Serious question...were you trying to be idiotic with this comment or did it simply occur naturally?

 

Comparing having feces everywhere to what someone chooses to wear is the most asinine thing I have seen in the last decade.

 

Having human feces everywhere puts the health of everyone on the ship at risk. Given the correct parameters it could even be fatal. I seriously doubt someone choosing to wear Dockers and a polo into a dining room that probably seats 1,000 people on the same evening you choose to wear a tux will put the health of anyone at risk.

 

It is that type of extremism that makes ardent proponents of formal attire here look like fools...in my opinion.

 

"Reductio ad absurdem" is a style of logic in which a proposition is shown to be false by demonstrating that it would lead to absurd conclusions if it's carried to its logical extension.

 

So my example was purposely absurd to show that the original argument is absurd. In other words if we accept that it's within our power to choose not to be bothered by things than absurd statement like the one I posted would have to be accepted as well.

 

And I'd suggest not calling someone's argument idiotic in case you simply missed the point completely.

Edited March 14, 2014 by DrD

[DrD]

 

HOWEVER (you knew that was coming;)), as you state, somehow, not seeing someone dressed up decreases your enjoyment. The other side of that coin, having to dress up to ADD to your enjoyment may very well decrease the enjoyment of the person(s) who have to dress up for you.

 

Of course but to a large extent that is my point. Politeness is about doing things that may decrease one's enjoyment of something in order not to have that effect on others. So it decreases my enjoyment to wait on line rather than cut but I do it to avoid decreasing other's enjoyment. It certainly reduces my enjoyment to have to yell at my kids to calm down but I do not want their behavior to impact others even though it decreases my relaxation to have to worry about it.

 

Of course I readily concede that there are degrees. I don't find my enjoyment of dinner decreases by more than just a bit when people are underdressed, so if it is really a huge bother for someone to get dressed than I would be fine with them not doing so. Just as I admit I don't always do things I know I should in cases in which compliance would be very difficult for me due to personal preferences (or hangups more accurately.) So for example I'm incredibly impatient, so there are time that I really push the envelope of waiting on lines.

 

So essentially all I'm saying is for people not to pretend that there's no reason that anyone should be bothered by others not dressing up. That's not quite the same as saying everyone absolutely should dress up.

[DrD]

I do love being talked down to by the "experts" on this forum.

 

The facts are the vast majority of people dress in an appropriate manner in MDR...much in the same manner as one would for each of the occasions mentioned in your response.

 

I would also state that the vast majority of the cruising public could care less what someone else is wearing (based on the commentary provided in these forums).

 

So the issue is that a small (but vocal) minority of cruisers are letting their level of enjoyment be adversely affected by another small minority of cruisers who don't dress to the first group's level of expectation. Group #1 should accept the fact that Group #2 is going to wear what they want to wear and move on. Does Group #1 have the "right" to be bothered. Of course. But what does that solve?

 

Regarding the dress code in your office....can I explain it logically? Yes. You're the boss. You set and enforce the rules. RCCL has chosen not to do this in their "office".

 

 

I'm sorry that you feel I'm talking down to you, that was not my intent. And I don't recall presenting my opinions as that of an expert.

 

I do not set the dress code in my office as I'm not the boss.

 

Anyway at this point I feel I've posted enough and will now out to avoid being one of "those people." My lack of replies going forward should not construed as agreement. I've enjoyed the discussion and apologize to anyone who is rolling their eyes now.

[Onessa]

. . .It is quite apparent that "group dressing" is something that people enjoy as evidenced by the fact that it exists for wedding, banquets, benefits, proms, etc. There's something pleasant about seeing others dressed up and it creates a sense of community and togetherness. As you are surely aware dress codes do exist and do so for a reason.

You can try to define a "dress code" but unfortunately you cannot impose good taste. I personally would rather see a woman in a pair of long pants and a polo shirt that fit her, than some of the getups they pass off for formalwear. My 5'7" 112lb 18YO daughter shows more decorum.

 

. . .Furthermore many people including myself have posted that it does indeed decrease our enjoyment (not a lot mind you.) It is not necessary for you to understand why this is but you should accept it and move on. Many customs and mores are not based on any "tangible argument." (not sure how you can feel an argument unless it's a fight I guess.)

 

So while I can understand why some people simply do not want to make the effort despite knowing they will be bothering others, let's please not pretend that we don't have the "right" to be bothered. And yes cutting in line is a more severe offense in my opinion but the example is valid qualitatively if not quantitatively.

If you want to bother me, sit me next to a woman in some "sparkly" strapless number that is two sizes too small for her. She needs sleeves (jiggly underarms). I don't need to see down her cleavage. I don't need those bulges. When she gets up to powder her nose, I don't need to see her xxx sticking out and her hairy pale legs (because NO ONE wears pantyhose). I don't need to her her walking cow-like in some ugly high-heeled shoes. I don't need to smell her husband's Axe cologne (must come out of the shower heads) wearing a suit and tie and shirt that are too small and are somewhere from the mid to late 1990's. I don't need to see their sullen 16YO DD in her recylced prom dress (again a size or two too small with a slit up to there and a neckline down to there) and made up like a hooker. Their 13YO son kicking the table leg in boredom with his "dress" shoe (wrong size, wrong color) and clad in more ill-fitting cheap polyester dress clothes from another generation. Grandma whose outfit is somehow even more offensively ill fitting and flesh showing than the moms. And some spinster aunt in that bridesmaid dress that she was going to be able to wear "afterwards".

 

You cannot have a dress code that covers good taste. I am less offended by someone in a clean, well-fitting shirt and slacks that actaully appropriately covers their body.

 

I am offended by the mockery that people make out of dressing well on these so-called "formal" nights.

 

. . .There's a dress code in my office as at most offices. Why? Can it be explained logically?

The dress code at my office (a main office of a very large insurance company) is "casual" -- and getting more casual on a regular basis. With summer coming will there be people who try to push the boundries of good taste? Yes, I'm sure they will. But these are the same people who really could not dress well when we had six pages of "rules" -- they might be able to follow the rules but still look unsavory!

[LetsGetWet!]

If you want to bother me, sit me next to a woman in some "sparkly" strapless number that is two sizes too small for her. She needs sleeves (jiggly underarms). I don't need to see down her cleavage. I don't need those bulges. When she gets up to powder her nose, I don't need to see her xxx sticking out and her hairy pale legs (because NO ONE wears pantyhose). I don't need to her her walking cow-like in some ugly high-heeled shoes. I don't need to smell her husband's Axe cologne (must come out of the shower heads) wearing a suit and tie and shirt that are too small and are somewhere from the mid to late 1990's. I don't need to see their sullen 16YO DD in her recylced prom dress (again a size or two too small with a slit up to there and a neckline down to there) and made up like a hooker. Their 13YO son kicking the table leg in boredom with his "dress" shoe (wrong size, wrong color) and clad in more ill-fitting cheap polyester dress clothes from another generation. Grandma whose outfit is somehow even more offensively ill fitting and flesh showing than the moms. And some spinster aunt in that bridesmaid dress that she was going to be able to wear "afterwards".

Wow, you certainly cornered the market on judgmental with that post! :rolleyes:

[BeachChik]

You can try to define a "dress code" but unfortunately you cannot impose good taste. I personally would rather see a woman in a pair of long pants and a polo shirt that fit her, than some of the getups they pass off for formalwear. My 5'7" 112lb 18YO daughter shows more decorum.

 

If you want to bother me, sit me next to a woman in some "sparkly" strapless number that is two sizes too small for her. She needs sleeves (jiggly underarms). I don't need to see down her cleavage. I don't need those bulges. When she gets up to powder her nose, I don't need to see her xxx sticking out and her hairy pale legs (because NO ONE wears pantyhose). I don't need to her her walking cow-like in some ugly high-heeled shoes. I don't need to smell her husband's Axe cologne (must come out of the shower heads) wearing a suit and tie and shirt that are too small and are somewhere from the mid to late 1990's. I don't need to see their sullen 16YO DD in her recylced prom dress (again a size or two too small with a slit up to there and a neckline down to there) and made up like a hooker. Their 13YO son kicking the table leg in boredom with his "dress" shoe (wrong size, wrong color) and clad in more ill-fitting cheap polyester dress clothes from another generation. Grandma whose outfit is somehow even more offensively ill fitting and flesh showing than the moms. And some spinster aunt in that bridesmaid dress that she was going to be able to wear "afterwards".

 

You cannot have a dress code that covers good taste. I am less offended by someone in a clean, well-fitting shirt and slacks that actaully appropriately covers their body.

 

I am offended by the mockery that people make out of dressing well on these so-called "formal" nights.

 

The dress code at my office (a main office of a very large insurance company) is "casual" -- and getting more casual on a regular basis. With summer coming will there be people who try to push the boundries of good taste? Yes, I'm sure they will. But these are the same people who really could not dress well when we had six pages of "rules" -- they might be able to follow the rules but still look unsavory!

 

Wow. Such judgement. I almost feel sad for how miserable your life must be to be so nasty about people you don't even know.

 

Maybe if you see people dressed as you describe you take a step back and think. Maybe those old ill fitting clothes are all those people had in formal type wear. Maybe they couldn't afford anything new but still wanted to follow the dress guidelines.

 

The fact that you are "offended" by people's dress and have such a nasty attitude about people you don't even know speaks more about you as a person then them.

[Onessa]

Wow. Such judgement. I almost feel sad for how miserable your life must be to be so nasty about people you don't even know.

 

Maybe if you see people dressed as you describe you take a step back and think. Maybe those old ill fitting clothes are all those people had in formal type wear. Maybe they couldn't afford anything new but still wanted to follow the dress guidelines.

 

The fact that you are "offended" by people's dress and have such a nasty attitude about people you don't even know speaks more about you as a person then them.

First of all - sarcasm here. Many people seem to think that formal is always "good" and anything less is always "bad". I've seen a heck of a lot of people whose dress follow the "guidelines" who really are dressed offensively.

 

Secondly, my viewpoint is not any more judgemental than someone who seems to feel that a pax dressed "nicely" (but not in a suit and tie), is an offense to everyone else. Maybe you should "step back" to consider that perhaps a pax in a nice fitting clean polo shirt and khahi pants rather than old, illfitting "formal" clothes is what they can afford. Rather than recyle some crap that makes them feel bad about themselves, perhaps they "splurged" and bought something that fit, looked "nice" and something that they can wear to work for the next year rather than buying something that they will have need to wear again for another year-and-a-half (by which time it may look dated, and wearing it may make them feel bad)

 

Rather than forcing "formal" be certain to dress well, in clothes that fit and show some decorum.

Edited March 14, 2014 by Onessa

[LetsGetWet!]

First of all - sarcasm here. Many people seem to think that formal is always "good" and anything less is always "bad". I've seen a heck of a lot of people whose dress follow the "guidelines" who really are dressed offensively.

 

Secondly, my viewpoint is not any more judgemental than someone who seems to feel that a pax dressed "nicely" (but not in a suit and tie), is an offense to everyone else. Maybe you should "step back" to consider that perhaps a pax in a nice fitting clean polo shirt and khahi pants rather than old, illfitting "formal" clothes is what they can afford. Rather than recyle some crap that makes them feel bad about themselves, perhaps they "splurged" and bought something that fit, looked "nice" and something that they can wear to work for the next year rather than buying something that they will have need to wear again for another year-and-a-half (by which time it may look dated, and wearing it may make them feel bad)

 

Rather than forcing "formal" be certain to dress well, in clothes that fit and show some decorum.

In case you hadn't noticed, I don't think anyone in this thread has tried to "force formal." Most everyone agrees that a nice collared shirt and dress pants of some kind are acceptable. Its the ones who are NOT showing "some decorum" by wearing things which are specifically prohibited like shorts, undershirts, flip flops and ball caps that people are objecting to - while others brag about wearing exactly that kind of thing and getting away with it.

[awhcruiser]

This.

In case you hadn't noticed, I don't think anyone in this thread has tried to "force formal." Most everyone agrees that a nice collared shirt and dress pants of some kind are acceptable. Its the ones who are NOT showing "some decorum" by wearing things which are specifically prohibited like shorts, undershirts, flip flops and ball caps that people are objecting to - while others brag about wearing exactly that kind of thing and getting away with it.

[poncho1973]

However - whatever the opposite is of "fashion police" here keep trying to pretty much tell new cruisers that ask that shorts, flip flops, ball caps etc are "just fine" in the MDR, using the tact of "I've done it and gotten away with it so its obviously fine." That's doing a disservice to those new cruisers and being less than honest in the process. comxkid stated very well what the true, honest answer is to questions about that previously.

 

I've been around these boards a long time... but I haven't seen these people you are protecting us from.

 

Who is saying that shorts, flip flops, ball caps, etc. are "just fine" in the MDR?

 

I saw the guy who wears the dress shorts. Got that. Not exactly cut-offs and a mullet... but I'll give you that poster, at least, says shorts are cool. Even though it isn't in the spirit of YOUR comment.

 

Who else is saying this is cool?

 

I'm pretty sure you are the engineering extreme example-guy version of Don Quixote in this battle for fashion.

[awhcruiser]

No words for this post.

 

If you want to bother me, sit me next to a woman in some "sparkly" strapless number that is two sizes too small for her. She needs sleeves (jiggly underarms). I don't need to see down her cleavage. I don't need those bulges. When she gets up to powder her nose, I don't need to see her xxx sticking out and her hairy pale legs (because NO ONE wears pantyhose). I don't need to her her walking cow-like in some ugly high-heeled shoes. I don't need to smell her husband's Axe cologne (must come out of the shower heads) wearing a suit and tie and shirt that are too small and are somewhere from the mid to late 1990's. I don't need to see their sullen 16YO DD in her recylced prom dress (again a size or two too small with a slit up to there and a neckline down to there) and made up like a hooker. Their 13YO son kicking the table leg in boredom with his "dress" shoe (wrong size, wrong color) and clad in more ill-fitting cheap polyester dress clothes from another generation. Grandma whose outfit is somehow even more offensively ill fitting and flesh showing than the moms. And some spinster aunt in that bridesmaid dress that she was going to be able to wear "afterwards".

 

You cannot have a dress code that covers good taste. I am less offended by someone in a clean, well-fitting shirt and slacks that actaully appropriately covers their body.

 

I am offended by the mockery that people make out of dressing well on these so-called "formal" nights.

 

The dress code at my office (a main office of a very large insurance company) is "casual" -- and getting more casual on a regular basis. With summer coming will there be people who try to push the boundries of good taste? Yes, I'm sure they will. But these are the same people who really could not dress well when we had six pages of "rules" -- they might be able to follow the rules but still look unsavory!

Edited March 14, 2014 by awhcruiser

[Texmike]

We don't mine getting dressed up in the MDR. Back in 2004 when we took our first cruise, the majority of the cruisers including children were dressed up. When we took our last cruise in 2010, it was more casual but we still dressed up. We are without jobs now and can't afford to cruise anymore but if we ever go again, we will dress up

[graphicguy]

Of course but to a large extent that is my point. Politeness is about doing things that may decrease one's enjoyment of something in order not to have that effect on others. So it decreases my enjoyment to wait on line rather than cut but I do it to avoid decreasing other's enjoyment. It certainly reduces my enjoyment to have to yell at my kids to calm down but I do not want their behavior to impact others even though it decreases my relaxation to have to worry about it.

 

Of course I readily concede that there are degrees. I don't find my enjoyment of dinner decreases by more than just a bit when people are underdressed, so if it is really a huge bother for someone to get dressed than I would be fine with them not doing so. Just as I admit I don't always do things I know I should in cases in which compliance would be very difficult for me due to personal preferences (or hangups more accurately.) So for example I'm incredibly impatient, so there are time that I really push the envelope of waiting on lines.

 

So essentially all I'm saying is for people not to pretend that there's no reason that anyone should be bothered by others not dressing up. That's not quite the same as saying everyone absolutely should dress up.

 

 

Doc...you're right, it's a matter of degrees. I think some ltry to make it out it has to be all one way, or all another way. I reside in that (hopefully) happy medium area.

 

No one's dress matters to me....has any affect on me.

 

:)

[Lanzalady]

First...you keep saying "dress code" but RCI does not have a dress code...they simply suggest certain attire. Look up the words "code" and "suggest" and you will find they are entirely different.

 

Secondly...there is only one human on the planet that can impact how you feel, your emotions and/or your level of enjoyment at any event...and that person is YOU. How you CHOOSE to react, be it internally or externally, is the only thing that can impact you or your experience. You may not want to admit it, but it is fact.

 

Absolutely right! People can only become offended if they choose to be so. We are all the masters of our own destiny and are here to fulfill our highest potential - not to spend our time pandering to the whims of others. :rolleyes:

[LetsGetWet!]

We don't mine getting dressed up in the MDR. Back in 2004 when we took our first cruise, the majority of the cruisers including children were dressed up. When we took our last cruise in 2010, it was more casual but we still dressed up. We are without jobs now and can't afford to cruise anymore but if we ever go again, we will dress up

So sorry to hear about your job situation - here's to a much better 2014 for you and yours!

[WetToes]

So sorry to hear about your job situation - here's to a much better 2014 for you and yours!

 

You beat me to it. Want to 2nd this. Texmike, wish you and your family better times. :)

Edited March 14, 2014 by WetToes