Crew Compensation, Auto-Tips, and Loyalty Status - An Honest discussion

[dorisis]

on the australian based princess ships all gratuities are included in the fare if booked with a local TA and things work out well

I am always uncomfortable with the tipping system and truly wish America would eliminate it in favor of a decent wage for crew. They work so hard for so little.

[latebloomer56]

A personal choice, I gather, then, others should not have.

What I mean is it's my personal choice not to remove the auto tip.

[dorisis]

That's the sensible way to look at it, IMO. It's all part of the crew's wages, so to speak.

 

So why not just add it to the price of the cruise??? I guess it seems to make the cruise cheaper than it really is???

[caribill]

So why not just add it to the price of the cruise??? I guess it seems to make the cruise cheaper than it really is???

 

As others have pointed out, the crew is hired via a service that gets a percentage of their fixed pay. Tips are not subject to that fee.

 

If the tips become part of the cruise price and thus are included in the fixed pay, the staff will actually receive less as they will have to share a portion of their tips with the staffing service.

[Charry_]

Bottom line…After hearing this, I feel it is shameful to remove auto-tips from your shipboard account.

 

Firstly Chris, the only thing that is “shameful” is the fact you and some others on this forum feel they can judge other cruisers for removing the automatic tipping. If you support the auto tipping policy, then hoorah for you, but don’t disparage others who take a different view! To do so is simply arrogant.

Before anyone jumps in to say tipping is part of the US culture, and so “when in Rome”, it should be remembered that the only thing “US” about these ships is the fact they are owned by an American company. Princess registers its ships in Bermuda so it can avoid the taxes and labour laws of the United States. Maybe that is shameful. From my experience, one is hard pressed to find any US citizens working on the ship unless they are in senior roles.

I totally agree with the other posters who have said that the compensation of employees is between the company and the employee – NOT the customer. The workers on these ships are not slaves or indentured servants, and I think you will find that the conditions offered compare well to what is available in their home countries - however at the end of the day, if they don’t like the compensation, then they would no doubt choose not to work on the ship.

When I travel to the US for business, I have no issue tipping workers for their great service – waiters, cab drivers, the hotel concierge etc. I do however only tip people I actually interact with. What I don’t see happening is that the hotel makes me pay a general “gratuity” every day for the other behind the scene hotel workers like laundry staff etc. I don’t get charged a general gratuity by the cab driver for the mechanics back in the workshop, so why then is this done on the ship?

If Princess needs the gratuities to bolster the wages of its employees, then maybe you should take up the issue of employment practices with Princess. If the US service culture is one where minimum wages are so small that people have to rely in tips to make a decent living, then maybe you should voice your concerns to your Government (oh, but of course, the ship isn't covered by those laws!) Don’t however judge other cruisers for not wanting to buy into the farce of auto tipping.

As for the view that if auto tipping was removed, then the fares would go up, that just supports the view that we are being exploited by Princess to basically top up the pay of their employees.

I have not ever removed my auto tips before – mainly for convenience, but I am seriously considering doing so on my next cruise in October, as you have inadvertently pointed out how ridiculous the pooling system is.

To those who like the auto tips – you should keep doing it, to those who don’t like it, and prefer to tip directly – you should keep doing it. What you shouldn’t do is allow posters to force their views down your throat and “guilt” you into doing something you aren’t comfortable with.

[jackson bernard]

Bottom line…After hearing this, I feel it is shameful to remove auto-tips from your shipboard account.

 

Firstly Chris, the only thing that is “shameful” is the fact you and some others on this forum feel they can judge other cruisers for removing the automatic tipping. If you support the auto tipping policy, then hoorah for you, but don’t disparage others who take a different view! To do so is simply arrogant.

Before anyone jumps in to say tipping is part of the US culture, and so “when in Rome”, it should be remembered that the only thing “US” about these ships is the fact they are owned by an American company. Princess registers its ships in Bermuda so it can avoid the taxes and labour laws of the United States. Maybe that is shameful. From my experience, one is hard pressed to find any US citizens working on the ship unless they are in senior roles.

I totally agree with the other posters who have said that the compensation of employees is between the company and the employee – NOT the customer. The workers on these ships are not slaves or indentured servants, and I think you will find that the conditions offered compare well to what is available in their home countries - however at the end of the day, if they don’t like the compensation, then they would no doubt choose not to work on the ship.

When I travel to the US for business, I have no issue tipping workers for their great service – waiters, cab drivers, the hotel concierge etc. I do however only tip people I actually interact with. What I don’t see happening is that the hotel makes me pay a general “gratuity” every day for the other behind the scene hotel workers like laundry staff etc. I don’t get charged a general gratuity by the cab driver for the mechanics back in the workshop, so why then is this done on the ship?

If Princess needs the gratuities to bolster the wages of its employees, then maybe you should take up the issue of employment practices with Princess. If the US service culture is one where minimum wages are so small that people have to rely in tips to make a decent living, then maybe you should voice your concerns to your Government (oh, but of course, the ship isn't covered by those laws!) Don’t however judge other cruisers for not wanting to buy into the farce of auto tipping.

As for the view that if auto tipping was removed, then the fares would go up, that just supports the view that we are being exploited by Princess to basically top up the pay of their employees.

I have not ever removed my auto tips before – mainly for convenience, but I am seriously considering doing so on my next cruise in October, as you have inadvertently pointed out how ridiculous the pooling system is.

To those who like the auto tips – you should keep doing it, to those who don’t like it, and prefer to tip directly – you should keep doing it. What you shouldn’t do is allow posters to force their views down your throat and “guilt” you into doing something you aren’t comfortable with.

 

Well said. Totally agree. Surprising a so called American company gets away with violating labor laws and exploiting its crew.

 

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[rdsqrl]

Chary, I hate to confuse you with facts, but when you're tipping in the U.S., many of those tips are indeed shared with behind-the-scenes workers. Servers in restaurants tip out to bartenders who made your pre-dinner martini, busboys who cleared your plates and foodrunners who brought your entrees, and even the hostess who seated you. Housekeepers in hotels share their tips with laundry helpers. Etc., etc.

 

And probably most tipped workers in the U.S. are quite happy with the system. My brother who waited tables in an upscale restaurant for several summers made far more money off tips (even after the tip-out) then any employer would have paid as a wage.

 

[Ethel5]

 

Well said. Totally agree. Surprising a so called American company gets away with violating labor laws and exploiting its crew.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Forums mobile app

 

Princess is not violating any labor laws and the crew are hired from agencies in their countries.

 

A few years ago, NCL decided to have three ships registered in USA to enable their ships to do RT cruises around Hawaii. A lot of palms were greased and they circumvented a few laws-wink, wink, nudge, nudge. The upshot was that the American crews they hired couldn't/wouldn't put up with the hours and ill treatment from passengers. After two weeks they had to cancel cruises because the crew was too tired to work. The outcome was that 2 of the ships were quickly sent to other areas. The point of all this is cruise lines attract foreign crews. The wages the crew makes are more than what they would make at home so they are willing to put up with long hours, being away from home, nasty passengers et al.

[Ethel5]

Chary, I hate to confuse you with facts, but when you're tipping in the U.S., many of those tips are indeed shared with behind-the-scenes workers. Servers in restaurants tip out to bartenders who made your pre-dinner martini, busboys who cleared your plates and foodrunners who brought your entrees, and even the hostess who seated you. Housekeepers in hotels share their tips with laundry helpers. Etc., etc.

 

And probably most tipped workers in the U.S. are quite happy with the system. My brother who waited tables in an upscale restaurant for several summers made far more money off tips (even after the tip-out) then any employer would have paid as a wage.

 

 

I have a friend who is a bellman at an upscale hotel. His family of four live off the $1's and $5's anything above that is banked. They live in a nice house in a good neighborhood and go on 2-3 vacations per year. The wife doesn't work and their hobby is hot air ballooning. They are quite happy living on tips.:)

[Loonbeam]

Except for the fact that people don't understand, by tipping direct, unless you give more than the hotel charge would provide, you are punishing the crew for a corporate policy. And if you do give them the same amount, they end up with the exact same amount and possibly a black mark on their service record for something they have no control over.

 

You may not be a big fan of the system, while I see some of the benefits I am not, but it is the system in place on almost every cruise line operating out of America in some form and most of out of Europe and Asia. It's a system designed to have some benefits for the crew, but mostly for the line, and there's no way to 'work around it'.

 

If you are unhappy with the system, let Princess management know. I doubt they will listen but at least you are complaining to the people who can do something about it.

 

Realistically, there are three things that will affect change. Mass protests (not likely to happen). Mass loss of business over this specific issue (again, not likely, given the system has been in place for over a decade), or legal requirements that change the rules.

 

Absent that, when you sign up for a Princess Cruise, you are tacitly agreeing to play by their rules, like em or not.

 

 

 

Bottom line…After hearing this, I feel it is shameful to remove auto-tips from your shipboard account.

 

Firstly Chris, the only thing that is “shameful” is the fact you and some others on this forum feel they can judge other cruisers for removing the automatic tipping. If you support the auto tipping policy, then hoorah for you, but don’t disparage others who take a different view! To do so is simply arrogant.

Before anyone jumps in to say tipping is part of the US culture, and so “when in Rome”, it should be remembered that the only thing “US” about these ships is the fact they are owned by an American company. Princess registers its ships in Bermuda so it can avoid the taxes and labour laws of the United States. Maybe that is shameful. From my experience, one is hard pressed to find any US citizens working on the ship unless they are in senior roles.

I totally agree with the other posters who have said that the compensation of employees is between the company and the employee – NOT the customer. The workers on these ships are not slaves or indentured servants, and I think you will find that the conditions offered compare well to what is available in their home countries - however at the end of the day, if they don’t like the compensation, then they would no doubt choose not to work on the ship.

When I travel to the US for business, I have no issue tipping workers for their great service – waiters, cab drivers, the hotel concierge etc. I do however only tip people I actually interact with. What I don’t see happening is that the hotel makes me pay a general “gratuity” every day for the other behind the scene hotel workers like laundry staff etc. I don’t get charged a general gratuity by the cab driver for the mechanics back in the workshop, so why then is this done on the ship?

If Princess needs the gratuities to bolster the wages of its employees, then maybe you should take up the issue of employment practices with Princess. If the US service culture is one where minimum wages are so small that people have to rely in tips to make a decent living, then maybe you should voice your concerns to your Government (oh, but of course, the ship isn't covered by those laws!) Don’t however judge other cruisers for not wanting to buy into the farce of auto tipping.

 

As for the view that if auto tipping was removed, then the fares would go up, that just supports the view that we are being exploited by Princess to basically top up the pay of their employees.

I have not ever removed my auto tips before – mainly for convenience, but I am seriously considering doing so on my next cruise in October, as you have inadvertently pointed out how ridiculous the pooling system is.

To those who like the auto tips – you should keep doing it, to those who don’t like it, and prefer to tip directly – you should keep doing it. What you shouldn’t do is allow posters to force their views down your throat and “guilt” you into doing something you aren’t comfortable with.

[Colo Cruiser]

Bottom line…After hearing this, I feel it is shameful to remove auto-tips from your shipboard account.

 

Firstly Chris, the only thing that is “shameful” is the fact you and some others on this forum feel they can judge other cruisers for removing the automatic tipping. If you support the auto tipping policy, then hoorah for you, but don’t disparage others who take a different view! To do so is simply arrogant.

Before anyone jumps in to say tipping is part of the US culture, and so “when in Rome”, it should be remembered that the only thing “US” about these ships is the fact they are owned by an American company. Princess registers its ships in Bermuda so it can avoid the taxes and labour laws of the United States. Maybe that is shameful. From my experience, one is hard pressed to find any US citizens working on the ship unless they are in senior roles.

I totally agree with the other posters who have said that the compensation of employees is between the company and the employee – NOT the customer. The workers on these ships are not slaves or indentured servants, and I think you will find that the conditions offered compare well to what is available in their home countries - however at the end of the day, if they don’t like the compensation, then they would no doubt choose not to work on the ship.

When I travel to the US for business, I have no issue tipping workers for their great service – waiters, cab drivers, the hotel concierge etc. I do however only tip people I actually interact with. What I don’t see happening is that the hotel makes me pay a general “gratuity” every day for the other behind the scene hotel workers like laundry staff etc. I don’t get charged a general gratuity by the cab driver for the mechanics back in the workshop, so why then is this done on the ship?

If Princess needs the gratuities to bolster the wages of its employees, then maybe you should take up the issue of employment practices with Princess. If the US service culture is one where minimum wages are so small that people have to rely in tips to make a decent living, then maybe you should voice your concerns to your Government (oh, but of course, the ship isn't covered by those laws!) Don’t however judge other cruisers for not wanting to buy into the farce of auto tipping.

 

As for the view that if auto tipping was removed, then the fares would go up, that just supports the view that we are being exploited by Princess to basically top up the pay of their employees.

I have not ever removed my auto tips before – mainly for convenience, but I am seriously considering doing so on my next cruise in October, as you have inadvertently pointed out how ridiculous the pooling system is.

To those who like the auto tips – you should keep doing it, to those who don’t like it, and prefer to tip directly – you should keep doing it. What you shouldn’t do is allow posters to force their views down your throat and “guilt” you into doing something you aren’t comfortable with.

 

 

Wow! Welcome to CC. :rolleyes:

[shredie]

[quote name='dorisis']So why not just add it to the price of the cruise??? I guess it seems to make the cruise cheaper than it really is???[/QUOTE]

I think this is directed to me? Yes, I think of the auto-tip as part of the price to cruise and as part of the crew's wages (so to speak, as I said.) I don't much like the pay system, but it is what it is, and I am not going to protest it by stiffing the crew. They pool the tips, and probably some less-than-stellar workers get more than they might "deserve." On the other hand, some who go above and beyond probably get less. My husband explained the umpire to our Little League grandsons by saying some bad calls benefit you and some the other team, but it all works out to about even eventually. (Giving a little extra to a deserving worker is also a remedy.) So why not add the auto-tip to the price of the cruise? I do. "So to speak."

[caribill]

Don’t however judge other cruisers for not wanting to buy into the farce of auto tipping.

 

 

I have not ever removed my auto tips before – mainly for convenience, but I am seriously considering doing so on my next cruise in October.

 

Before autotip was started on Princess, passengers were provided with envelopes for tipping and given suggested amounts for the tips. These tips were mainly for the cabin steward and the dining room personnel.

 

This was before "anytime dining," so all passengers had the same waitstaff every evening. Thus, they could easily tip their servers at the end of the cruise. (Of course sometimes the dining room was nearly empty that last evening as those who did not want to tip just did not show up that night.)

 

Once anytime dining was started the autotip also was started. This was for two reasons. Most important is that those in anytime could have different waitstaff every evening and it is unlikely that more than a very few passengers might carry cash every evening just to tip that evening's waitstaff. Second is that the autotip was much easier for passengers as they did not have to bring cash to the cruise for tipping the cabin steward and dining staff. The initial autotip total was equal to what the suggested tipping had been before the autotip was started.

 

If you do remove the autotip, I assume it is not because you want to avoid tipping, but because you want to hand the cash out personally. How do you intend to properly tip the waitstaff at breakfast, lunch and (if in anytime), at dinner since these can be different staff at every meal?