Informal night was misunderstood by most.

[RevNeal]

Dear Big Dave,

Welcome to the HAL board! It's always great to see new faces around here! Thank you for posting your views on the subject. Allow me a few remarks:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I wear a suit to formal dinners, but have never worn my sport coat and I've had it 10 years. (My wife insisted I get at least one, but it just isn't something folks my age wear)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good for your wife! In general, I have found sports coats helpful for times when I want a slightly different look than the all-grey or all-black look of a suit. Sundays in the summer, when I prefer to not wear a coat around the office, Summer Musicals and Summer weddings or funerals (that I'm not officiating at as the minister), are all good times for wearing a very nice pair of dress slacks and a (black or dark grey) sports jacket.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...instead I find the old HAL standard of what 'informal' is, and 'wear formal and informal all night' is one most my age(40) would find uncomfortable if held to strictly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While I certainly can understand the desire to change out of formal wear after dinner (especially if the clothing has gotten a bit too tight!), I am a guy in his 40s who prefers to abide by the code and remain "properly" dressed throughout the entire evening. I suppose I'm not among the "most" of our age who feel this way. [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I don't go on vacations to be uncomfortable, and don't think many others do either.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree with you ... I certainly don't go on vacations to be uncomfortable. It happens, sometimes, that I am uncomfortable on vacation, but I don't seek it out on purpose. [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img] What some people find uncomfortable, and what others find comfortable, is often different. We're not all the same. Neither are cruise lines.

Have a blast on the Oosterdam in Jan 05!

Greg+
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[RevNeal]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> 1) What ships are these people on who are warm in the dining room? I never wear short sleeve shirts at night on a cruise (next will be my 14th) because it is too cold. My wife always carries a wrap with her.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Nieuw Amsterdam, the Rotterdam V, the Maasdam, the Statendam, and the Volendam ... all were too hot for me in the dining room and, at times, elsewhere aboard. I understand that some people are too cold, but I'm almost always too hot. Some people are just cold natured; for instance, I am comfortable in 50 degrees and short sleeves (I often wore short sleeve-shirts and carried a light-weight jacket for Alaska, and was only really cold the day we were in Glacier Bay ... and, then, only when the clouds blocked the sun). As for heat ... I sweat in the shade when the temps are anywhere close to 72 degrees or higher. My brother is the same way, and so is my Dad, while my mother and Chris are freezing at 80 degrees.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>2) Why are so many people uncomfortable in a sport coat or a suit?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure, but some people are. My brother, for one, whines and complains anytime he has to wear a sports jacket for anything. He says it feels like a "straight jacket."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>3) Do these people read the dress codes provided by every cruise line in their brochures and web sites? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In some cases, no. It still manages to amaze me, but I've actually met people on HAL cruises who have sworn up and down that there was NO dress code published in any of the materials that they were sent with their travel documents. I challenged one such person to bring his travel documentation to dinner the next night, and he did. Slapping the pouch down in front of me, he said: "I bet you that you can't find a dress code in there!" So, I did. I opened the pouch, took out the "Know Before You Go" booklet, turned right to the page containing the code, and then set it before him. As it turned out, he hadn't bothered to actually read the booklet ... he had just glanced at it for a second and set it aside. But it WAS there. (I won the bet -- an after dinner round of brandy in the Explorer's Lounge.) [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

In other cases, some people just refuse to abide by the dress code because they are stubborn, rebellious know-it-alls who refuse to be told what to do, when to do it, or how. Still others are not nasty about it, they're just stubborn and want to do things their own way without regard for what others (including their hosts) state is acceptable.

I'm sure there are other reasons for some people not abiding by the code ... none of the above should be taken, personally, by anybody here.

Greg+
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[RevNeal]

Marc,

As you well know, one makes compromises in life all the time ... the same is true regarding cruise lines. If I want to take a cruise that only NCL offers, do I whine and complain and refuse to do things NCL's way? Do I demand that NCL do things HAL's way??? Do I grit my teeth and say: "there should be an informal night on the 4th night of the cruise!!!!! GRRRR" and, therefore, dress as if I were on HAL on informal nights?? NO ... I go on NCL, conform to their standards, partake of their FreeStyle Cruising, and have a BLAST! But I don't whine and complain and judge NCL as being a horrible product because they don't do things as HAL does them.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>...that makes the assumption that people chose lines based strictly on these things. Perhaps some people prefer the spaciousness of HAL ships, or the artwork on board, but don't like dressing up. What do they do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they REALLY want to enjoy the larger cabins and the artwork on HAL then they should be willing to compromise their likes and dislikes regarding dressing up and abide by the HAL dress code. If they're not willing to make that kind of a compromise, then they don't REALLY want to enjoy the larger cabins or the artwork on HAL; that, or they're overgrown children who never grew up enough to realize that when in Rome one shoots Roman Candles.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I wanted to cruise out of Norfolk to the Caribbean. I had a choice of HAL, or HAL. So I chose HAL.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

And, in choosing HAL, you chose the whole package ... not just the port of departure, but everything that came with HAL.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Consider all the choices that we make when choosing a cruise; the size of the ship, the itinerary, the departure port, price, dining room or freestyle, entertainment, etc. there could never be enough cruise lines/ships to meet everyone's taste. So you wind up with people choosing HAL for many reasons, but they still may not enjoy dressing up. Does that mean that they go somewhere else?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they are unwilling compromise and go along with the dress code, I think they SHOULD go somewhere else. I know that attitude has been judged by some as being elitist, but in my opinion it is simply both ADULT and REASONABLE. People have CHOICES in life ... and those CHOICES bring with them CONSEQUENCES. In the case of choosing HAL, it means choosing the WHOLE HAL experience. One can't have the HAL cabin but not the HAL ship or the HAL itinerary. If they're not willing to compromise their likes and dislikes in order to take a HAL cruise, then perhaps they shouldn't be taking that HAL cruise. Anything else is just self-centered childishness. Sorry ... but that's how I see it.

In short ... if someone decides to take a HAL cruise, but doesn't like dressing up, they should either compromise and dress up, or they shouldn't go. The alternative is irresponsible immaturity.

Greg+
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[jhannah]

Well put, Greg. I wholeheartedly agree.

'Vegas Jim

[FlorenceItaly]

Dh and I are cruising together in October. I seriously considered the Zuiderdam for this cruise, however, the main reason I didn't ultimately book it is because dh does not like dress code restrictions. He prefers to dress more casually on vacation. With RCI, even if we eat in the Lido in the evening, shorts are permitted.

Marie

HAL - MAASDAM - June 2004/Canada/New England
RCI - Mariner of the Seas,
Sept 2004(CC Group Cruise)
RCI - Rhapsody of the Seas
October 2004


RCI Majesty of the Seas - Spring Break, March 2005
Celebrity Mercury, April 2005
Caribbean Princess, Sept 2005
(CC Group Cruise)

[melzateach]

We leave Saturday on our first cruise. We have read our travel documents about a million and one half times! For the most part, we are casual people, with two kids and a busy life. However, we are REALLY looking forward to the formal nights and informal nights, which were plainly spelled out in our documentation. Both my husband and our 11 year old son will be in tuxedos on our formal nights, blazers and ties for informal night, and khakis and button downs for casual nights. Frankly, we aren't concerned how others have interpretted the dress code, we want to experience cruising as it was intended - and that, for us means tuxedos, sport coats and trousers (no jeans). Others may do what they want, but we look forward to the "experience". Besides, tuxedos purchased from EBAY made the outfitting affordable and easy.

Off to Alaska on Saturday! Thanks for all the postings, we have learned SO much from you all.

[RevNeal]

melzateach,

Have a BLAST on your cruise! I wish I were going with you!

Greg+
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[url="http://www.revneal.org/hawaiicruise/hawaii.html"]Statendam: Hawaii Cruise Pictures and Video[/url]
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[F5Loar]

Exalthim: You do realize the Zuiderdam is the most relaxed in not enforcing dress codes ship that HAL has. Why would you not go for that reason? If ever there was a HAL ship you can do it your way, the Zuiderdam is it. I saw shorts on formal nights two tables from me.
They could care less what you wear on any night. And as others mentioned the Lido serves up some fine cusine too. You are really missing out on a great cruise if you miss the Zuiderdam. But if you do go RCL beware of the Ranch Steak.

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Till we sail on the Zuiderdam

Til we sail on the Mariner of The Seas RCL
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until we sail on the Disney Wonder
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til we sail the ms Maasdam
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[ryansmemom]

Dear Greg,

[img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]I applaud you and everything you said about compromise. I also agree with everything you said. I was considering answering that question, however, it had been asked of you and I did not want to be presumtious.

This is not an issue of traditionalism. It is just respectfulness (including respect for oneself, ones host and one's fellow travelers), responsiblity (literally ability to respond to others rather than react),maturity, and common sense. We all need to compromise. We all need to adhere to certain standards or rules, or suffer the consequences. Unfortunatly, many people do not learn that as children when the consequences are relatively small.

Unfortunatly, our society, has many people who have a sense of entitlement and an "I can do what ever I want to do" attitude also known as "the ugly American" syndrome. It's not very attractive. Fortunatly, most of us do not have that attitude. Although some seem to get carried away with rhetoric on an message board, those I have acutally met in person have always been very generous, caring, open, respectful and responsible.

So, let's all just enjoy each other. I think if we all met face to face we would find that we all agree about a lot more than we disagree about. Afterall, we all love to cruise.

Linda

Thanks for listening

[superstein61]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Orcrone:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Is there some reason why every "main stream" cruise line must be just like every other line? Why can't we have a bunch of DIFFERENT lines that cater to the likes and dislikes of different demographics and groups? Why can't NCL, Princess, CCL, and RCCL each do things their own particular ways -- "freestyle, Personal Choice, etc" -- and Cunard, HAL, and others can do things their own particular ways: i.e, variations of the more "traditional" fare. That way, we can all have our cake and eat it too? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Revneal - that makes the assumption that people chose lines based strictly on these things. Perhaps some people prefer the spaciousness of HAL ships, or the artwork on board, but don't like dressing up. What do they do. I wanted to cruise out of Norfolk to the Caribbean. I had a choice of HAL, or HAL. So I chose HAL. Consider all the choices that we make when choosing a cruise; the size of the ship, the itinerary, the departure port, price, dining room or freestyle, entertainment, etc. there could never be enough cruise lines/ships to meet everyone's taste. So you wind up with people choosing HAL for many reasons, but they still may not enjoy dressing up. Does that mean that they go somewhere else?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said Orcrone, well said. I have mentioned numerous times no cruise line is perfect - each does something well and not so well. Many may choose HAL for certain reasons bu not for the dress.

Me - as I mentioned, I now shop for a cruise by price and itenary as no one line is perfect.

[superstein61]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhannah:
Well, if you don't like dressing up, then don't take a cruise. It's different than being at home and going to work, so don't compare it with that. While many may think that dressing for dinner is anachronistic, it's still very much a part of cruising tradition. If a cruise line wishes to preserve that, so be it. If someone doesn't want to observe it, then go where you'll be more comfortable.

'Vegas Jim
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know, I have typically followed the cruise lines rules in the past as to dress, but I am getting tired of seeing comments like this that it has convinced me that when I sail late July, to dress comfortable (within reason - like GASP, no jacket and tie on informal nite) as I please and enjoy myself even if I become a thorn in people's sides - cause quite frankly, after reading comments which basically say if you don't like it, stay home tells me I shouldn't care who I upset.

[superstein61]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jhannah:
No, they can still sail HAL. Just eat in the Lido or your cabin and not the dining room when the evening's dress code doesn't appeal to you.

'Vegas Jim
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, I will not be shunned to the Lido or my room either. Thanks for helping to convince me to shed my coat on informal night !!! Main Dining Room here I come

[RevNeal]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Although some seem to get carried away with rhetoric on an message board, those I have acutally met in person have always been very generous, caring, open, respectful and responsible.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I totally agree. Absolutely RIGHT. I would venture to suggest that even those of us who disagree on this issue would find that the others are wonderful people and a joy with which to cruise. That has been my experience in the past, and I don't see any reason to think it would change in the future.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>So, let's all just enjoy each other. I think if we all met face to face we would find that we all agree about a lot more than we disagree about. Afterall, we all love to cruise.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BRAVA! And Amen!

Greg+
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[superstein61]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by c-cruise:
Yes I read and understand the dress code... I just choose to ignore HAL's uninforced defination of informal. I have been on 15 cruises and have never once been questioned for not wearing a jacket on informal nights. I certainly wouldn't think of not dressing appropriately on formal nights however and I do respect the formal dress for the entire evening.

Frankly, eating in the lido or in the cabin for dinner for lack of a sport coat on informal night is not an acceptable solution. They are ok for breakfast and lunch, but if I wanted to eat dinner in a buffet line I could do so back home.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

AMEN to that !!!

[RevNeal]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ... dress comfortable (within reason - like GASP, no jacket and tie on informal nite) ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A reminder and a question:

Reminder: Ties are optional ... that means you're perfectly free to forego it on informal nights, if you prefer.

Question: If you're not going to don a jacket on informal night, what then will be your distinction between casual night and informal night? I'm neither judging nor evaluating ... just curious.

Greg+
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[superstein61]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by revneal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> ... dress comfortable (within reason - like GASP, no jacket and tie on informal nite) ... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

A reminder and a question:

Reminder: Ties are optional ... that means you're perfectly free to forego it on informal nights, if you prefer.

Question: If you're not going to don a jacket on informal night, what then will be your distinction between casual night and informal night? I'm neither judging nor evaluating ... just curious.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

RevNeal - Thanks for the tie clarification for informal night. I guess I will just be a rebel only by forgoing my jacket then [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

As to what will the distinction be between informal and casual, I guess their really won't be any. I will wear nice docker type pants and a golf type or short sleeve button down shirt both nights.

I guess at this point I really don't see the purpose of informal night. have Formal night and have casual nights. Why the third in between category?

[RevNeal]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I guess at this point I really don't see the purpose of informal night. have Formal night and have casual nights. Why the third in between category? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In my opinion, the purpose of Informal Nights is to add additional evenings which are more dressy than the Casual Nights, but less-dressy than Formal Nights. It has the effect of allowing those of us who want to dress up more often to get to do a bit of that on the Informal Nights, while not pushing others to have to dress up more frequently than they would like. This is, of course, based upon the assumption that the Informal Night minimal code is not an imposition (i.e., the framers of the code consider a jacket, with tie being optional, as NOT being in any way a hardship). Clearly, you and some others disagree and feel that it's asking too much. [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Greg+
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[c-cruise]

I don't make any distinction between casual and informal. A nice pair of Khaki pants and a button down or polo shirt seems perfectly acceptable to me for either one. Several cruise lines no longer make this distinction either and have ditched informal nights.

Perhaps it is a demographics thing. I am certainly not the typical HAL customer. I am 28 and have cruised 15 times on 4 lines. To me putting on a sports coat for dinner is something that (not to be disrespectful and please don't be offended) "old people" do.

I just don't see the point of dragging a coat I don't like and never wear 3000 miles accross the country. I would then put it on for about 5 minutes for the walk to the dining room and then hang it from the back of my chair. After diner I would procede to throw it back in the room until the next informal night. What's the point in that.

Instead I just pass on the coat and wear what is comfortable to me. I fail to see how wearing nice khaki pants and a button down shirt can be being disrespectful to anybody. Afterall, it's not like we are all trying to show up at the dining room in our flip flops and tank tops.

Future Cruises:
- 6/27/04 Sapphire Princess
- 12/12/04 Oosterdam

[RevNeal]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I don't make any distinction between casual and informal. A nice pair of Khaki pants and a button down or polo shirt seems perfectly acceptable to me for either one. Several cruise lines no longer make this distinction either and have ditched informal nights.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

While such may seem perfectly acceptable to you, and while it is true that several other cruise lines no longer observe Informal Nights as opposed to Formal and Casual Nights, it is nevertheless true that the Holland America Line still maintains Informal Nights on their cruises and has published a clear Dress Code for those nights. What you consider perfectly acceptable for wear on Informal Night simply doesn't meet the standard outlined in that code. I'm sorry if that makes you or anyone else angry ... but that's a fact.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Perhaps it is a demographics thing. I am certainly not the typical HAL customer. I am 28 and have cruised 15 times on 4 lines. To me putting on a sports coat for dinner is something that (not to be disrespectful and please don't be offended) "old people" do.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, sonny, I'll just have to pick up my cane and dotter my way down to the Rotterdam Dining Room, dragging my ancient 40-something year-old bones behind me. WHAT, pray-tell, makes putting on a jacket "something that old people do"??? And, please note, it is NOT JUST FOR DINNER but for the ENTIRE evening. It's part of the atmosphere that isn't intended to be Formal, but also isn't intended to be Casual.

Greg+
[url="http://www.revneal.org/wcaribbcruise.html"]Maasdam: Western Caribbean Cruise Pictures[/url]
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[url="http://www.revneal.org/hawaiicruise/hawaii.html"]Statendam: Hawaii Cruise Pictures and Video[/url]
[url="http://www.revneal.org/alaska03embark.html"]Volendam: Alaska Inside Passage Cruise Pictures[/url]


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Until Departure on the MS Zaandam, Panama Canal
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[This message was edited by revneal on 06-16-04 at 03:51 AM.]

[FlorenceItaly]

F5Loar - We have airfare...it's a done deal [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img]. But, Zuiderdam IS on my list of "somedays". [img]http://messages.cruisecritic.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif[/img].

Marie

HAL - MAASDAM - June 2004/Canada/New England
RCI - Mariner of the Seas,
Sept 2004(CC Group Cruise)
RCI - Rhapsody of the Seas
October 2004


RCI Majesty of the Seas - Spring Break, March 2005
Celebrity Mercury, April 2005
Caribbean Princess, Sept 2005
(CC Group Cruise)

[lknick]

Sooner or later on every thread relating to attire, age comes up. The message is I'm young, I'm hip and you're a doofus.

Observation does not support this. Inappropriate dress is not age specific.

40 cruises: mainly Cunard, Carnival, HAL, NCL, RCI, Starclipper, Seabourn. ~511 days total, ~325 on HAL

[F5Loar]

unfortunatly it is the 80+ senior statesmen showing up in their yellow caragon sweaters on informal nights(and sometimes formal nights with their bolo ties!).
No age hasn't a thing to do with it. HAL has lowered the dress code to pacify the rebels and the rebels always go one step below knowingly abusing the dress codes. When you make tux optional, sport coat no tie okay you are close to saying "just forget it and wear what you want" code. I'm still back to it's not these people's fault. If HAL enforces their codes at the door and turns away these "rebels" one time, they will either go back and change, or never cruise HAL again. Either way HAL wins so why not enforce it? Do you have to be told to put on a swimsuit when going in the pool on the ship? When scuba diving can you go casual? Would you wear your tux on a bus tour? Can we get this thread to page 4 before Walt will close it?

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Till we sail on the Zuiderdam

Til we sail on the Mariner of The Seas RCL
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until we sail on the Disney Wonder
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til we sail the ms Maasdam
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[c-cruise]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The message is I'm young, I'm hip and you're a doofus.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Gee, I don't remember calling anybody a "doofus". I was just trying to explain where I am coming from on this issue. And I must disagree with your statement that inappropriate dress is not age specific. What people wear is (thank god) extremely age specific.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>it is nevertheless true that the Holland America Line still maintains Informal Nights on their cruises and has published a clear Dress Code for those nights.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bottom line is that they can write whatever policy they want, but they don't enforce it and people will continue to wear whatever they see fit. I purposely sail the Vista class ships because I feel those ships are targeted at a younger crowd with a more relaxed dress code.

I am sailing on HAL again in Dec. and will not be bringing a coat for those silly informal nights. If people choose to be offended or find it disrepsectful well.... that is frankly their problem. They only have to look at my "unsightly" dress shirts for 7 days and then their horrible cruise dining ordeal will be over....

I am convinced that some people would be perfectly happy if we were all still wearing our powdered wigs, waist coats, silk stalkings and breeches to dinner. Just please remember to check you sword at the door however because I would be offended if you brought that into the dining room.

Times change. Lighten up, it's just a vacation after all.

Future Cruises:
- 6/27/04 Sapphire Princess
- 12/12/04 Oosterdam

[Orcrone]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> F5Loar said:
If HAL enforces their codes at the door and turns away these "rebels" one time, they will either go back and change, or never cruise HAL again. Either way HAL wins so why not enforce it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>How does HAL win? Is HAL in the business of being the dress police? They're in the business to make money, plain and simple. It is not in their best interest for people to not sail with them anymore, unless that brings even more people back to HAL.

People on this board get very upset by people not following the dress code. I tend to think that the vast majority of cruisers, including the large percentage that never heard of cruise critic, don't really care what others wear, and even if they do, they're not going to switch cruiselines because of the non-enforcement of the dress code. Have you? So how is it in HAL's best interest to enforce the code and cause some people to go somewhere else?

Before I get flamed for being a slob, please note that I've made no comment on how I plan on dressing. The purpose of my post is to point out that HAL wants to put the maximum possible number of people on each ship.

1/1990 - RCCL Song of America
4/13/2003 - Carnival Inspiration
10/30/2004 - Maasdam

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Till sailing on the Maasdam

[ekerr19]

Well said Marc!

This topic has been beaten to death - but, I didn't understand what F5 meant by his post either... you hit the nail right on the head.

Noordam 1984
Veendam 1999
Amsterdam 2000
Noordam 2001
Statendam 2001
Noordam 2002
Zuiderdam 2003
Maasdam 2004.
Noordam 2004