Smoking?

[chrispb]

That is one reason why many hotel chains have now banned all smoking on their premises at the risk of losing many smoking customers.

 

Hank

 

Many of us try to avoid chain hotels, preferring the smaller family-owned places where possible. Probably easier this side of the pond, though.

[Laminator]

There are many factors that find their way into executive suites. In the case of HAL you should not underestimate that their HQ is in Seattle where they have very tough anti-smoking laws which impact on all the workers at the corporate headquarters. And now there are subtle legal issues which are certainly discussed at the highest levels. When most lines allowed balcony smoking, HAL was among the "crowd." But when you are the last one standing there is no longer any group protection. So lets take a plausible situation (and lawyers think this way). Assume a HAL passenger, with Asthma, has a major asthma attack while on their HAL balcony which results in a major bout or even death. They then sue HAL who certainly has some excellent legal defenses...or do they? This potential liability not only impacts HAL thinking, but it is an issue for HAL's liability Insurer. Imagine an attorney, before a Jury, pointing out that every other major cruise line banned balcony smoking because of its inherent risk to other passengers, but HAL saw fit to risk the life and limb of every other passenger to satisfy a few. And the Attorney would also argue that the parent company "CCL" most have knowledge of the risk since all their other companies had already banned balcony smoking.

 

Not sure that HAL pays a lot of attention to what CC posters think, but when you run a large corporation the legal risk is a constant irritant which can only be ignored at great risk to the CEO's future.

 

Hank

 

Please understand first and foremost I am not for or against smoking on balconies. It doesn't matter either way to me. I simply wanted to point out another potential corporate viewpoint.

 

One other thing that greatly risks any CEO's future is decline in revenue. Personally I think the reason HAL is waiting to make a decision is that 37 ships (CCL and NCL) carrying nearly 90,000 pax a week just announced that they are no longer allowing smoking on balconies. If we use 15% as the number of smokers on a cruise ship HAL's potential customer base has just increased by 13,500 pax per week. The percentage increases even more when you consider overseas markets.

 

Not all smoking pax will leave their favorite cruise line due to the new policy. At the same time though not all couples smoke so it is possible that non-smoking pax will go to a different line as their significant others smoke.

 

I do believe HAL will follow suit but I also believe they want to first wait and see if there is a significant increase in bookings due to the new policy's first. And I also believe this is and was discussed at the Carnival corporate level.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Laminator

[summersigh]

Pleze pass the popcorn :D

[Laminator]

Pleze pass the popcorn :D

 

Popcorn? Really? Over probable corporate level business discussions? I find these types of discussions to be interesting. I find the numbers to be interesting. It's not about the topic. It's about the numbers. As I stated in my post I could care less what HAL does.

Edited July 18, 2014 by Laminator

[summersigh]

Popcorn? Really? Over probable corporate level business discussions? I find these types of discussions to be interesting. I find the numbers to be interesting. It's not about the topic. It's about the numbers. As I stated in my post I could care less what HAL does.

 

Really !! :D:D

[cbr663]

There is very little legal liability to HAL allowing passengers to smoke on its balconies. The contract that every passenger agrees and accepts limits passenger recourse and their ability to seek legal recourse. In addition, the Convention of Limitation for Maritime Claims limits the maximum that a passenger may collect in the case of death, personal injury or loss of property to about $71,000. It would cost a passenger much more in legal fees to pursue legal action.

 

If anything, it is actually a strategic advantage for HAL to maintain its current smoking policy as it is a way that it can differentiate itself from its competition.

[Laminator]

There is very little legal liability to HAL allowing passengers to smoke on its balconies. The contract that every passenger agrees and accepts limits passenger recourse and their ability to seek legal recourse. In addition, the Convention of Limitation for Maritime Claims limits the maximum that a passenger may collect in the case of death, personal injury or loss of property to about $71,000. It would cost a passenger much more in legal fees to pursue legal action.

 

If anything, it is actually a strategic advantage for HAL to maintain its current smoking policy as it is a way that it can differentiate itself from its competition.

 

This is what I was referring to as interesting in my post. The numbers on both sides of the equation from the corporate perspective. How far does the pendulum swing one way or the other. Is Carnival Corporate using HAL as a test company?

[Fontana]

.....

....If anything, it is actually a strategic advantage for HAL to maintain its current smoking policy as it is a way that it can differentiate itself from its competition.

 

Yes, interesting times ahead!

 

This is what I was referring to as interesting in my post. The numbers on both sides of the equation from the corporate perspective. How far does the pendulum swing one way or the other. Is Carnival Corporate using HAL as a test company?

[PathfinderEss]

Have you noticed that the OP has never come back to comment? I don't know about the rest of you, but I find that highly suspicious

[DeeniEncinitas]

Ditto!!!

[POA1]

Have you noticed that the OP has never come back to comment? I don't know about the rest of you, but I find that highly suspicious

No. Everyone signs up for Cruise Critic, makes one smoking post and then disappears. Completely normal.

[PathfinderEss]

No. Everyone signs up for Cruise Critic, makes one smoking post and then disappears. Completely normal.

I'll drink to that............:D:eek::D

[Laminator]

No. Everyone signs up for Cruise Critic, makes one smoking post and then disappears. Completely normal.

 

And from Seattle no less. This is what I was referring to when it comes to your research ability.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Laminator

[POA1]

And from Seattle no less. This is what I was referring to when it comes to your research ability.

You can type in anything you want for location, so I don't always trust that.

 

Edited July 19, 2014 by POA1

[Laminator]

You can type in anything you want for location, so I don't always trust that.

 

I thought that furthered your case of the post and run theory. Perry Mason is on right now. Maybe he can figure it out.

[skeeterotis]

Actually north of Seattle about 20 minutes. Nothing mysterious at all- just new to this board and trying to take it all in. We saw so many smoking threads on the Holland America board we wondered if the whole ship was smoking.

 

We have recently decided that we want to give cruising a try and trying to do as much research as possible. We are mid forties and kind of tired of long flights and hotels.

 

We were reading through the boards last night and wife did comment that she really hoped that the people on Holland America ships weren't as mean and as many we've seen on here. People on the other boards didn't seem to be so angry and confrontational- seemed like they just shared a love of cruising.

 

We pretty much have decided we will start on Celebrity or Holland America. We don't want huge mega ships and definitely not the 24 hour party ships. We are pretty quiet and enjoy great food and wine- both lines seem like a good fit to us.

 

So, nothing nefarious and we aren't covert Holland America spies (I've driven past their building many times though going to Ballard if that counts).

Edited July 19, 2014 by skeeterotis

[mrscopper]

Aren't any of you concerned about fire, that does not seem to be mentioned. I had a lit cigarette hit me in the face on the Ryndam.

[Laminator]

Actually north of Seattle about 20 minutes. Nothing mysterious at all- just new to this board and trying to take it all in. We saw so many smoking threads on the Holland America board we wondered if the whole ship was smoking.

 

We have recently decided that we want to give cruising a try and trying to do as much research as possible. We are mid forties and kind of tired of long flights and hotels.

 

We were reading through the boards last night and wife did comment that she really hoped that the people on Holland America ships weren't as mean and as many we've seen on here. People on the other boards didn't seem to be so angry and confrontational- seemed like they just shared a love of cruising.

 

We pretty much have decided we will start on Celebrity or Holland America. We don't want huge mega ships and definitely not the 24 hour party ships. We are pretty quiet and enjoy great food and wine- both lines seem like a good fit to us.

 

So, nothing nefarious and we aren't covert Holland America spies (I've driven past their building many times though going to Ballard if that counts).

 

Nothing better than a good spy story. Welcome to CC. Good luck with whichever cruise online you choose. We are pretty loyal to HAL.

[Laminator]

Aren't any of you concerned about fire, that does not seem to be mentioned. I had a lit cigarette hit me in the face on the Ryndam.

 

I have been on 3 cruises where the fire in the incinerator has gotten out of control and the alarms went off. Nothing major in those instances. There was a fire on the Westerdam in the engine room a few weeks back. I believe that was a little more serious. I am more concerned about the moron that chose not to use an ashtray on your cruise.

[POA1]

So, nothing nefarious and we aren't covert Holland America spies (I've driven past their building many times though going to Ballard if that counts).

 

Well, there goes one of life's little mysteries. :) Hope you have a great cruise, whichever you pick!

[Sam.Seattle]

Have you noticed that the OP has never come back to comment? I don't know about the rest of you, but I find that highly suspicious

Please see post 41.

 

Jumping to false conclusions.