This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Lizzie68]

Seems like the other cruise lines have already decided what is right for them ;) Hopefully, HAL will follow suit soon!

 

Yup. Why do I get the feeling that HAL drew the short straw in the boardroom.:rolleyes:

[summer slope]

My comment to this thread is, yes it is legal tot smoke on THEIR balcony, NOT on mine. Keep your smoke on your balcony and things will be fine.

[sail7seas]

My comment to this thread is, yes it is legal tot smoke on THEIR balcony, NOT on mine. Keep your smoke on your balcony and things will be fine.

 

Perfect.

[cruz chic]

'Right' is within your frame of reference - HAL's ship - their frame of reference.

 

By all means lobby/nag/petition them to change their rules - but - while it is their ship and their rules, you agree to abide by them when you book (this applies to smokers and non-smokers alike).

 

If smoking on balconies is that much of a deal-breaker, look elsewhere.

 

When I book a cruise I weigh up many factors into my decision to book - some have a higher weighting than others - some might be deal-breakers.

 

I am a smoker and I like a smoke occasionally on my balcony (not 24/7). I booked an NCL cruise when I could no longer smoke on my balcony. A minus point in my analysis but it was not a deal-breaker.

 

Several posters have made it clear that they will no longer book HAL cruises because of balcony smoking. Their choice based on their priorities.

 

Booking a HAL cruise and then whingeing that they could not use their balcony because a neighbour was indulging in an allowable activity has little credibility.

 

I wonder if some posters need to re-examine their priorities a bit?

 

I recently came back from a princess cruise. They do not allow balcony smoking but I had a smoker that could not control themselves next to me. Booking a line that doesn't allow smoking doesn't mean it will be smoke free. Some inconsiderate people think the rules are for everone except them.

[kennicott]

Has HAL's policy towards balcony smoking changed over the years? Granted, I have only cruised HAL three times over the past 10 years, but I seem to remember balcony smoking was always allowed. So I have to admit, I'm baffled by all the people on here who say they are 3 and 4 star mariners on HAL, yet oppose this policy so much. I don't understand how they managed to accumulate so many days on HAL if this particular policy is such a game changer for so many people.

 

You might try reading some of the posts on this thread as I perceive you overlook the compelling reason for pertinent concern. We also are four star mariners and have sailed on HAL close to 300 days. This matter does have our attention.

 

It is important to realize that this all is a very recent development. All other significant mass market cruise lines have now abolished balcony smoking, leaving HAL the only game in town. The big question, as one might deduce from many posts on this thread, is what happens if smokers begin to saturate most of HAL's balconies due these changes?

 

Obviously, HAL being overwhelmed by smokers circumstance isn't a given. It will take a period of time for repercussions to manifest. Smokers may not flock to HAL as feared, instead remain with their favorite cruise line even though they prohibit balcony smoking. On the other hand, as many have postulated here, HAL ships might become the "Ashtrays of the Seas".

 

It is true, some folks can be pretty stubborn regarding issues at times. Personally, we have experienced enough and heard enough pursuant to the HAL smoking situation to have serious concerns . Any rate, we watch and wait, and pay attention to posts on this thread as pertinent trends germinate. In the meantime, HAL will be sailing without us.

 

At this time, no one knows for certain what is going to happen on HAL. Perhaps HAL might even join the others in their prohibition.

Edited March 13, 2015 by kennicott

[OceanTraveller4ever]

Well, the attrition rate on smokers dictates that they would die off sooner, and the the take-up rate on smoking is diminishing. I have lost three aunts to cigarettes.

So eventually there will be no smokers on any decent cruise line anywhere.

Until then we should be patient, and take our chances on second hand smoke on HAL ships.

Edited March 13, 2015 by jpelleti007

[cruz chic]

Well, the attrition rate on smokers dictates that they would die off sooner, and the the take-up rate on smoking is diminishing. I have lost three aunts to cigarettes.

So eventually there will be no smokers on any decent cruise line anywhere.

Until then we should be patient, and take our chances on second hand smoke on HAL ships.

 

Good point.

[Cruzaholic41]

But there are some who can't accept that others have taken many cruises and never been bothered by smoking on their balconies.

 

Negative. It's not that people can't accept it, it's that people don't give a crap - such as me. I know that I have been negatively affected numerous times. I'm not going to stop my campaign of letting HAL know how I feel about it just because there may be people out there who aren't effected. That would be like not complaining about a broken AC because some people might like their room warm, or not returning a cold steak because there might be someone in the room who likes it that way. If you've never been bothered by it, good for you - I just don't give a crap.

[Jo3]

I am on this cruise because of misinformation given by a "Cru" ise "Con"sultant whom I told at the time my sensitivity to smoke on balconies. I have also found "AAA" (thank you for that post) gave incorrect information and another "Cruise" consultant also had wrong info. However they looked it up when i asked "are you sure?" And stated my sensitivities. (Of course this last company was queried after I found myself in this situation. IMO, HAL needs to do a better job of getting correct policies to their "partner" booking agents.

It does appear to me that more people are noticing smoke on the HAL line since the other lines have banned balcony smoking. For those who are frequent HAL cruisers; what have you observed? Would you please post if it was stateroom veranda or larger suite balcony? I am wondering if the larger spaced apart suite balconies make a better difference.

 

Ocean views in the middle of ship didn't work for my motion sickness; so I discovered availability of fresh air on a balcony worked well and after some successful cruises decided to try a Transatlantic Cruise. Yikes! No getting off in the middle of the ocean if "balcony" isn't working for me as informed and planned. What have past cruisers on the Neuw Amsterdam found to be nice outside decks with fresh air?

 

And to the poster who asked what did I expect? A totally non smoking ship? Of course not...I knew there was smoking allowed, just was EXPECTING a TA of a large booking company who told me a rule(no smoking on balcony) and even told me when it went into effect to know what she was talking about! Especially when I told her it would be a reason why I would not go through with the booking! A non smoking ship is a nice thought though...thanks for the suggestion! :)

 

I did post on our roll call requesting for non smokers on a guarantee to let HAL know they were non smokers and maybe they could end up next to my prebooked cabin, we could have our own volunteer non smoking section. Perhaps HAL will allow this and even use it on other cruises if logistics allows. Yes, it would be extra effort, but possibly a more enjoyable cruise for some.(volunteer system) Just trying to have positive solution to the misfortune of being given false information.

Here is to hoping for a smooth crossing and plenty of fresh air.

[kjw869]

Negative. It's not that people can't accept it, it's that people don't give a crap - such as me. I know that I have been negatively affected numerous times. I'm not going to stop my campaign of letting HAL know how I feel about it just because there may be people out there who aren't effected. That would be like not complaining about a broken AC because some people might like their room warm, or not returning a cold steak because there might be someone in the room who likes it that way. If you've never been bothered by it, good for you - I just don't give a crap.

 

I don't give a crap either. I'm with you!! :):)

[sail7seas]

Well, the attrition rate on smokers dictates that they would die off sooner, and the the take-up rate on smoking is diminishing. I have lost three aunts to cigarettes.

So eventually there will be no smokers on any decent cruise line anywhere.

Until then we should be patient, and take our chances on second hand smoke on HAL ships.

 

You're telling us we should be patient? :D LOL

 

Maybe you are in your twenties and can 'afford' to say that. Some of us in our sixties may not be so willing to 'patiently wait' for HAL to listen to the vast majority of the people in North America from where they sail a huge percentage of their cruise days. Of North American adults, around 20% are smokers. One can twist that number however they wish but it will always be an overwhelming majority are non-smokers and a great many HAL cruise days embark with North American guests.

 

Whether there are some among the 80% or so who do not smoke who don't mind second hand smoke, I don't think is a relevant number.

 

When I'm paying $7,000 and way up for a cruise, I am making it clear not having use of my verandah is unacceptable. The cruise I was going to book recently was going to cost $12,500 plus whatever I spent aboard. I chose to not book as I need to know I can escape to my verandah if I choose.

 

[HamOp]

You're telling us we should be patient? :D LOL

 

Maybe you are in your twenties and can 'afford' to say that. Some of us in our sixties may not be so willing to 'patiently wait' for HAL to listen to the vast majority of the people in North America from where they sail a huge percentage of their cruise days. Of North American adults, around 20% are smokers. One can twist that number however they wish but it will always be an overwhelming majority are non-smokers and a great many HAL cruise days embark with North American guests.

 

Whether there are some among the 80% or so who do not smoke who don't mind second hand smoke, I don't think is a relevant number.

 

When I'm paying $7,000 and way up for a cruise, I am making it clear not having use of my verandah is unacceptable. The cruise I was going to book recently was going to cost $12,500 plus whatever I spent aboard. I chose to not book as I need to know I can escape to my verandah if I choose.

 

 

My guess is that your, and all of the other voices who make their displeasure known to HAL are but a whisper when compared to the commanding shout that the brass of Carnival Corp. have given.

 

As I've said before, it seems to me that HAL has been designated the smoking line of all the Carnival lines. It gives the company a chance to "have their cake and eat it too".

 

You site the 80 percent of North American non-smokers. I'd love to know how that translates to the actual non-smoking population of any HAL ship.

I'm betting at this time the smoking population on HAL far exceeds 20%.

[kennicott]

[quote=HamOp;45919454 I'm betting at this time the smoking population on HAL far exceeds 20%.

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I'm afraid you might be correct there.

 

A while back there was quite a statistical, and very interesting, exchange on this thread regarding that very subject. If I recall correctly around 20% is the approximate percentage of the US population that still smoke. But when you factor in demographics it is the younger and less affluent elements of society who contribute greatly to that percentage. Those folk don't cruise much. On the average, again if I recall accurately, only about 5% to 8% of the US voyagers found on ships, smoke. That percentage would be my guess too, just from observations over the years we have cruised. Of course, that number must not apply to HAL anymore since they offer an exclusive balcony smoking experience.

 

I believe that those from the US make up way over 60% of those that cruise.

[mountainmare]

I agree that you have to look at Carnival Corp as a whole--not just HAL. From a business point of view there must be something different about HAL to attract new cruisers. They don't have to worry about HAL loyal cruisers, many will not leave their beloved HAL as been shown here time and time again. HAL only cruisers seem to be reluctant to try another brand. Those who do switch to a mass market will possibly try Princess or Cunard, so no big deal to Carnival Corp.

On the other hand it is possible harder to attract new mainstream cruisers to HAL when there are so many choices out there, so keeping the difference of allowing smoking on your private veranda is one way to get new clients.

There are plenty of choices for everyone, we stopped cruising HAL after two smoked out cruises in a row. I keep checking here to see if there are any changes coming.

It makes no sense to me for people to keep booking HAL year after year after having been chased inside due to smoking neighbors. It didn't take us that long to move on.

[sail7seas]

My guess is that your, and all of the other voices who make their displeasure known to HAL are but a whisper when compared to the commanding shout that the brass of Carnival Corp. have given.

 

As I've said before, it seems to me that HAL has been designated the smoking line of all the Carnival lines. It gives the company a chance to "have their cake and eat it too".

 

You site the 80 percent of North American non-smokers. I'd love to know how that translates to the actual non-smoking population of any HAL ship.

I'm betting at this time the smoking population on HAL far exceeds 20%.

 

 

 

I suspect you may be right on most counts. Sadly.......

 

[sail7seas]

I agree that you have to look at Carnival Corp as a whole--not just HAL. From a business point of view there must be something different about HAL to attract new cruisers. They don't have to worry about HAL loyal cruisers, many will not leave their beloved HAL as been shown here time and time again. HAL only cruisers seem to be reluctant to try another brand.

 

That might have been true a while ago but seems to be a bit less so as the months go by. There are some of us, like me, who are extremely loyal and are no longer willing to pay high suite prices and risk having chain smokers beside us. I had looked to book a Neptune Suite recently and when I gave serious consideration to the fact I might not be able to use my verandah, I chose to refuse the booking. I have over 80 cruises with HAL but the smoking policy is really disturbing me more and more.

 

 

Those who do switch to a mass market will possibly try Princess or Cunard, so no big deal to Carnival Corp.

On the other hand it is possible harder to attract new mainstream cruisers to HAL when there are so many choices out there, so keeping the difference of allowing smoking on your private veranda is one way to get new clients.

There are plenty of choices for everyone, we stopped cruising HAL after two smoked out cruises in a row. I keep checking here to see if there are any changes coming.

It makes no sense to me for people to keep booking HAL year after year after having been chased inside due to smoking neighbors. It didn't take us that long to move on.

 

 

I think some of what you write may be true but is becoming less so. Many people have commented they have moved to other cruise lines such as Oceania, Azamarra and Silverseas.

 

Edited March 13, 2015 by sail7seas

[Hlitner]

So, after reading the last few posts we now wonder. Perhaps the next National HAL advertising campaign will have a script that says, "Cruise HAL and enjoy our Signature of Excellence. And we at HAL are proud to be the pro-smoking line. Come one, come all, and bring your cigars and cigarettes."

 

Hank

[cruz chic]

I agree that you have to look at Carnival Corp as a whole--not just HAL. From a business point of view there must be something different about HAL to attract new cruisers. They don't have to worry about HAL loyal cruisers, many will not leave their beloved HAL as been shown here time and time again. HAL only cruisers seem to be reluctant to try another brand. Those who do switch to a mass market will possibly try Princess or Cunard, so no big deal to Carnival Corp.

On the other hand it is possible harder to attract new mainstream cruisers to HAL when there are so many choices out there, so keeping the difference of allowing smoking on your private veranda is one way to get new clients.

There are plenty of choices for everyone, we stopped cruising HAL after two smoked out cruises in a row. I keep checking here to see if there are any changes coming.

It makes no sense to me for people to keep booking HAL year after year after having been chased inside due to smoking neighbors. It didn't take us that long to move on.

 

Great way to attract new customers. Come join us on the ashtray of the seas. The executives should be so proud:D.

[Lizzie68]

So, after reading the last few posts we now wonder. Perhaps the next National HAL advertising campaign will have a script that says, "Cruise HAL and enjoy our Signature of Excellence. And we at HAL are proud to be the pro-smoking line. Come one, come all, and bring your cigars and cigarettes."

 

Hank

 

In this day and age I reckon HAL will do everything it can to divert from that image.:rolleyes: Hence why an earlier poster had absolutely no idea......

[HamOp]

Great way to attract new customers. Come join us on the ashtray of the seas. The executives should be so proud:D.

 

The executives are in the position they are because they know how to show a profit for the company (at least that's the way it is supposed to work).

 

If the executives fail to fill the ships, they won't be executives very long.

 

Smokers dollars are just as green as the non-smokers are. The executives don't care where the dollars come from as long as they come.

 

As far as "ash tray of the seas" goes, it reminds me of the old taunt of "sticks and stones my break my bones, but names will never hurt me":D

[Host Walt]

Just another reminder. This is the original post for this thread.

We have established this thread to be the "go to" thread for all discussions pertaining to Holland America's on board smoking policies. This thread is intended to make it easier for all Cruise Critic members to discuss these policies and any future changes thereto.

 

Here's a link to HAL's policy summary Shipboard Life: Is smoking allowed on board? - Click on "Shipboard Life" and a drop down menu will appear. Click on "On Board Policies" in that menu and you'll see the last question is "Is smoking allowed on board?"

 

Here's the currently posted policy (as of August 9, 2014):

 

-----

Is Smoking Allowed On Board?

For the comfort of all of our guests, all staterooms (cabins), showrooms and most other indoor areas are designated non-smoking. While smoking is not permitted in staterooms, guests are allowed to smoke on stateroom verandahs. Smoking is also permitted on certain other designated, outside decks. The designated smoking areas for all ships are as follows unless otherwise noted.

 

 

• Stateroom verandahs
  
• Casino (Active players only)
  
• Seaview Bar
  
• Outside Decks
  
  • Sports Deck
    
  • Observation Deck (ms Prinsendam, ms Eurodam, ms Nieuw Amsterdam, ms Noordam, ms Oosterdam, ms Westerdam, and ms Zuiderdam only)
    

   

 

Cigar and pipe smoking is not allowed anywhere inside the ship; it is only permitted on the outside decks where smoking is otherwise allowed and on stateroom verandahs. Electronic cigarettes are permitted in staterooms but not in other public areas of the ship other than on outside decks designated as smoking areas.

 

 

Any guest who smokes inside staterooms in violation of our policy will be charged a US$250 cleaning fee per day of violation.

 

----

 

Reminders.

 

1. Our community guidelines continue to apply to this thread.

 

2. This is a forum for discussions of cruising and associated topics. It is not a forum for discussing the health, economics and public policy aspects of smoking, whether associated with cigarettes, pipes, cigars or controlled substances (marijuana).

 

3. Discussions of this approach to smoking posts and other board policies are off topic and will be removed. Please post discussions of this approach for smoking posts to this thread: Single Smoking Thread on the HAL Board - a Sticky

 

Thanks for your understanding and continued participation on the Cruise Critic forums.

[cruz chic]

The executives are in the position they are because they know how to show a profit for the company (at least that's the way it is supposed to work).

 

If the executives fail to fill the ships, they won't be executives very long.

 

Smokers dollars are just as green as the non-smokers are. The executives don't care where the dollars come from as long as they come.

 

As far as "ash tray of the seas" goes, it reminds me of the old taunt of "sticks and stones my break my bones, but names will never hurt me":D

Yet these executive that "know how to show a profit" won't entertain any questions regarding their smoking policy. If they believe this is the best way to maximize profits why not answer questions about it? If they believe in it they should have no problem defending it.

[Richie2pies]

It seems the SAME people always have the anti-smoker posts?

[cruz chic]

It seems the SAME people always have the anti-smoker posts?

 

Why is it that the SAME smokers have pro smoking posts:rolleyes? Kinda makes sense to me. If you find something inappropriate then report it. I guess all the non smokers should just be quiet and let smokers have the run of the ship. The only reason changes have occurred to this point is because people have been vocal. Thank god people haven't suffered in silence and change has come, and more will not matter how many fight it.

Edited March 14, 2015 by cruz chic

[peddieplease]

Why is it that the SAME smokers have pro smoking posts:rolleyes? Kinda makes sense to me. If you find something inappropriate then report it. I guess all the non smokers should just be quiet and let smokers have the run of the ship. The only reason changes have occurred to this point is because people have been vocal. Thank god people haven't suffered in silence and change has come, and more will not matter how many fight it.

 

No, of course nonsmokers have the right to state their opinions, too. But smokers having the run of the ship? Please, let's be real. They're lucky if they can find a place soon to smoke. There's no need to exaggerate here.