Ashes to Ashes

[Starry Eyes]

I emailed NCL and they told me that.

Interesting, because NCL's PR dept post on the balcony smoking thread suggests it is only the Garden Villa, not the rest of the haven... post 503 by NCL (verified)

"Hi All,

We would just like to respond that smoking will be permitted in the private outdoor decks of the Garden Villas primarily because these are very private outdoor spaces and not balconies. Garden Villas are only available on select ships and do have large very private outdoor spaces.

 

This does not apply to any other Haven suites or the Haven courtyard area.

 

As with the overall changes to the smoking policy, we thank you for your understanding."

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=43445517#post43445517

 

Again, haven smoking rules are not big issue for me, but potentially they are a very big deal to others (pro or con, opinions are strong)

[caribbean sailor]

I just returned from the 8/24 Freedom sailing. We had mid ship deck 9 junior suites. I was out on the balcony, reading on a sea day and realized that I smelled smoke. And not just a whiff...it was definitely strong enough to make me get up and look all over to try and locate the balcony from which it was emanating. Could not locate it, but went inside, as I did not want to sit out there with the smell of smoke disturbing my reading time.

 

And I did notice the casino was much smokier than previously. And as Bob mentioned, I had heard that smoking in the casino was limited to those playing. Well, let me tell you, you could point out all of the people using the casino as their personal smoking location. And saying that we should move machines when someone nearby was smoking is not what we want to do, as my mom liked a particular machine and having someone standing right next to her smoking made it unpleasant.

 

Did you ever think your reading may have been disturbing his smoking.:D

[berwyn]

Actually, lets not assume - your analysis is flawed. The actual percentage of smoking households that might elect to go elsewhere is lower than 20%, not higher.

 

Did you take into account that other couples that might cruise with the smoker. I know a number of couples that vacation together. When the rule on balcony smoking came into effect they all decided to try AI because most did not care if they cruised or not. So to get a true picture you have to take that into consideration.

 

I was going to say the same thing.If ships go 100% smoke free we will be looking at AI's also.

[LetsGetWet!]

Did you take into account that other couples that might cruise with the smoker. I know a number of couples that vacation together. When the rule on balcony smoking came into effect they all decided to try AI because most did not care if they cruised or not. So to get a true picture you have to take that into consideration.

 

I was going to say the same thing.If ships go 100% smoke free we will be looking at AI's also.

Sorry guys, but the trend is clear & unarguable. With both the number & percentage of smokers dropping every year, for each smoker (or couple/family with a smoker) who would drop a cruise line for going 100% smoke-free, there's MORE than one non-smoker to replace them.

[caribbean sailor]

I feel the same way. Does Royal Caribbean have a non smoking night in their casinos? Princess has a night or two depending on the length of the cruise. That's when I go, though it still stinks.

 

Does Royal Caribbean have smoking nights on the balcony.:)

Edited September 10, 2014 by caribbean sailor

[nbsjcruiser]

Sorry guys, but the trend is clear & unarguable. With both the number & percentage of smokers dropping every year, for each smoker (or couple/family with a smoker) who would drop a cruise line for going 100% smoke-free, there's MORE than one non-smoker to replace them.

 

I understand what you are saying. The only thing with going smoke free is where would they get the employees for the ship? The countries the employees come from do not have 20% smokers.

[postmeome]

Just off indy 14 night spanish med,for the last few years no smoking in casino on uk cruises,this year it is allowed,asked casino manager why,the response was revenue ,I smoke and l like to have a drink in the casino but i can understand non smokers, my eyes were stinging after 30 mins,they had four non smoking tables and none was used during the cruise.Also no smoking anywere on deck 12 they have removed all ashtrays,so RC find it acceptable to allow smoking indoors and not on some outside decks:confused:

[Evilgrin72]

Sorry guys, but the trend is clear & unarguable. With both the number & percentage of smokers dropping every year, for each smoker (or couple/family with a smoker) who would drop a cruise line for going 100% smoke-free, there's MORE than one non-smoker to replace them.

 

This is oversimplifying things and is simply untrue. This would only be true if every cruise sailed full and with long waiting lists to get on board, or if ~60,000,000 Americans were refusing to cruise based purely on the fact that smoking is allowed in a few select pockets of the ship and would suddenly start booking like madmen as soon as an all-encompassing ban went into effect. Then, RCCL could afford to instantly alienate ~20% of their client base without affecting the bottom line. Smokers are used to getting pushed into corners and aren't going to abandon cruising en masse as long as they have somewhere to go to satisfy their cravings. Some may look into alternatives if they feel they're being overly restricted, but many will live with the policy. The minute you make the ship 100% smoke free, 99.9% of them are gone in an flash.

 

FTR, I am an ex-smoker who hasn't had a cig in years, so the less it's around me, the better. I'm hypersensitive to it. However, I am also a lot less eager to allow my personal comfort and preferences to dictate what others can/can't do than most. I believe that the "militant" non-smokers are creating a slippery slope and are really not seeing the forest for the trees in most instances.

[berwyn]

Wow,your 500th post was a great one.

[Starry Eyes]

I'll be surprised if we see many totally nonsmoking ships(if any at all). But I will not be surprised if cigarette smoking rules continue to tighten on cruises (at least cruises out of US and maybe elsewhere) as the % smokers decreases and the % vocal nonsmokers increases.

E-cigs are an evolving area. It will be interesting to watch that evolve over the coming years. I'm a life long nonsmoker, but if they are proven safe I might be tempted to try a vaping product.

[Charger2008]

One word that would make everyone happy - COPENHAGEN :D

 

 

Smokers get their nicotine fix and no one has to smell it ;) TA DA :p

[Ocean Boy]

I'll be surprised if we see many totally nonsmoking ships(if any at all). But I will not be surprised if cigarette smoking rules continue to tighten on cruises (at least cruises out of US and maybe elsewhere) as the % smokers decreases and the % vocal nonsmokers increases.

E-cigs are an evolving area. It will be interesting to watch that evolve over the coming years. I'm a life long nonsmoker, but if they are proven safe I might be tempted to try a vaping product.

 

I'm a little confused, why try?

[Ocean Boy]

One word that would make everyone happy - COPENHAGEN :D

 

 

Smokers get their nicotine fix and no one has to smell it ;) TA DA :p

 

Then RCI will have to increase the number of glasses that they provide for each cabin for all the folks who need a glass to put their teeth in at night.;) And all the new threads we will be reading about the gross people spitting into containers all over the ship. :eek:

Edited September 10, 2014 by Ocean Boy

[Starry Eyes]

I'm a little confused, why try?

If it is proven safe, why not consider it?

Of course, that is a big if. And if they are ever proven safe, likely I'll already be a senior citizen. Still, depending upon how things go, I might consider trying it.

There are interesting sounding flavors without nicotine; I might learn I like mint flavored vapor more than mint tea.

One might imagine over time, they might even produce cartridges that might enhance my senior years...perhaps modulate appetite, decrease nausea, or promote sense of well being...maybe.

It is another delivery system; maybe there will be pluses. Not for me now, but maybe some day.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Starry Eyes

[BND]

If it is proven safe, why not consider it?

Of course, that is a big if. And if they are ever proven safe, likely I'll already be a senior citizen. Still, depending upon how things go, I might consider trying it.

There are interesting sounding flavors without nicotine; I might learn I like mint flavored vapor more than mint tea.

One might imagine over time, they might even produce cartridges that might enhance my senior years...perhaps modulate appetite, decrease nausea, or promote sense of well being...maybe.

It is another delivery system; maybe there will be pluses. Not for me now, but maybe some day.

 

And you're the market that the vaping companies are looking for. :rolleyes: They do not exist to help people quit smoking. They exist to sell their product and recruit both former smokers and non-smokers to a new addiction just like tobacco companies did years ago by romanticizing cigarettes. They even had Hollywood onboard selling the idea in movies and on tv shows. There is new data that says that e-cigs are a gateway to harder drugs. Just google.

Edited September 10, 2014 by BND

[Starry Eyes]

And you're the market that the vaping companies are looking for. :rolleyes: They do not exist to help people quit smoking. They exist to sell their product and recruit both former smokers and non-smokers to a new addiction just like tobacco companies did years ago by romanticizing cigarettes. They even had Hollywood onboard selling the idea in movies and on tv shows. There is new data that says that e-cigs are a gateway to harder drugs. Just google.

Maybe I'd be concerned about all that for teens. I'm not too concerned that I will romanticize the product or move to hard drugs. Thanks for the chuckle.

[ryano]

There is new data that says that e-cigs are a gateway to harder drugs. Just google.

 

Right, because EVERYTHING you read on the internet is true.

 

 

[ryano]

Thanks for the chuckle.

 

No doubt

[Evilgrin72]

And you're the market that the vaping companies are looking for. :rolleyes: They do not exist to help people quit smoking. They exist to sell their product and recruit both former smokers and non-smokers to a new addiction just like tobacco companies did years ago by romanticizing cigarettes. They even had Hollywood onboard selling the idea in movies and on tv shows. There is new data that says that e-cigs are a gateway to harder drugs. Just google.

 

Of course they want to maximize sales. Anyone who wants to buy their product, they're happy to have you on board, just like any other business entity.

 

However, to portray e-cigs as a gateway drug is either misguided or agenda-driven. I know a number of smokers who tried to quit for years using the patch, the gum, Chantix, laser treatments, and hypnosis with no success and ultimately put them down for good after ONE DAY using the e-cig. It's quite simply the best smoking cessation device/treatment ever invented, whether or not it was/is intended for this purpose. They are not allowed to market it as such because no empirical data exists that it functions as a safe alternative to smoking yet, but rest assured, it's supremely effective. Whether or not it's 100% safe is as yet unknown, but I'd rather deal with the potential side effects of inhaling vaporized glycerin over the horrific nightmares and suicidal thoughts people frequently report using Chantix, to name one potential solution.

 

The problem is, until governments, cruise lines, private businesses, and whomever else is in a position to do so stops lumping e-cigs in with regular cigs and demonizing them, we're going to continue to retard the progress away from smoking that they can provide. We need to be doing everything we can to incentivize smokers to try the digital alternative, as this could be the path to ridding the world of smoking forever.

 

We don't yet know what inhaling glycerine vapor does, but what we DO know is that not a single known carcinogen that exists in cigarette smoke also exists in e-cig vapor. Not one. Considering that lung cancer is the #1 cause of cancer-related deaths in this country, and that 85% of these fatalities are related to smoking, the amount of lives that could be saved if the e-cig were fully embraced is staggering.

[BND]

Of course they want to maximize sales. Anyone who wants to buy their product, they're happy to have you on board, just like any other business entity.

 

However, to portray e-cigs as a gateway drug is either misguided or agenda-driven. I know a number of smokers who tried to quit for years using the patch, the gum, Chantix, laser treatments, and hypnosis with no success and ultimately put them down for good after ONE DAY using the e-cig. It's quite simply the best smoking cessation device/treatment ever invented, whether or not it was/is intended for this purpose. They are not allowed to market it as such because no empirical data exists that it functions as a safe alternative to smoking yet, but rest assured, it's supremely effective. Whether or not it's 100% safe is as yet unknown, but I'd rather deal with the potential side effects of inhaling vaporized glycerin over the horrific nightmares and suicidal thoughts people frequently report using Chantix, to name one potential solution.

 

The problem is, until governments, cruise lines, private businesses, and whomever else is in a position to do so stops lumping e-cigs in with regular cigs and demonizing them, we're going to continue to retard the progress away from smoking that they can provide. We need to be doing everything we can to incentivize smokers to try the digital alternative, as this could be the path to ridding the world of smoking forever.

 

We don't yet know what inhaling glycerine vapor does, but what we DO know is that not a single known carcinogen that exists in cigarette smoke also exists in e-cig vapor. Not one. Considering that lung cancer is the #1 cause of cancer-related deaths in this country, and that 85% of these fatalities are related to smoking, the amount of lives that could be saved if the e-cig were fully embraced is staggering.

 

Sigh. My post was directed at someone who talks about using e-cigs, but not as a help to quit smoking, but just to use them. What I said, was that poster is exactly what those companies are looking for.

 

As for the other issues, we don't know yet, now do we?

 

BTW, the report was in the New England Journal of Medicine. Hardly a fly by night, agenda driven source.

Edited September 10, 2014 by BND

[BND]

Right, because EVERYTHING you read on the internet is true.

 

 

 

It's a report in the New England Journal of Medicine, but then, what do they know?:rolleyes:

 

Trying to be funny is a way people try to distract others from what they don't want to believe.

Edited September 10, 2014 by BND

[Starry Eyes]

Sigh. My post was directed at someone who talks about using e-cigs, but not as a help to quit smoking, but just to use them. What I said, was that poster is exactly what those companies are looking for.

 

As for the other issues, we don't know yet, now do we?

 

BTW, the report was in the New England Journal of Medicine. Hardly a fly by night, agenda driven source.

IIRC, that study suggested brain changes from nicotine might increase risk of cocaine addition in rats. Extrapolations among species is far from perfect, so the result may not hold in humans. And my post specified flavors without nicotine. And I was clearly speculating about a time in the future when safety issues are better understood. Thanks all the same for your concern.

[terrygbennett]

Based on your "contributions" (and I use the word loosely) in this thread, I'm not sure I believe that. But I understand, if I had gotten fired, or been asked to leave - I might be tempted to claim that I "resigned on excellent terms" too. :rolleyes:

 

But just ask Laura, Host Mike, Host Graham or whoever is still around -I have no reason to lie -when they can chime in and say something differently.

[Evilgrin72]

Sigh. My post was directed at someone who talks about using e-cigs, but not as a help to quit smoking, but just to use them. What I said, was that poster is exactly what those companies are looking for.

 

As for the other issues, we don't know yet, now do we?

 

BTW, the report was in the New England Journal of Medicine. Hardly a fly by night, agenda driven source.

 

They're looking for anyone who wants to buy their product. That's a given.

 

No, we don't know EVERYTHING. What we do know is that they have isolated and identified over 100 known carcinogens in tobacco smoke. Of those 100+, exactly zero were found in tests of e-cig vapor.

 

As far as it being a "gateway drug", I'm willing to wager alcohol is 100 times more effective in this arena, but I don't think anyone's advocating prohibition.

 

Anyway, my aim is not to glorify e-cigs nor to debate you personally. I just think, as I said earlier in the thread, that a potential solution to everyone's problems (smokers and non-smokers) is being largely ignored and it bothers me. Not just on cruise ships, but it applies to the "big picture" as well. Until they cure cancer, our aim should be to minimize its occurrence and based on statistics, getting people that are addicted to cigarettes to switch to the electronic alternative could be the single most effective thing we can do to reduce cancer cases worldwide. Compared to that, I'm nonplussed if even the New England Journal of Medicine says that a kid who uses an eCig is 27% more likely to do bong rips within the ensuing 24 month period.

[jstraw20]

And you're the market that the vaping companies are looking for. :rolleyes: They do not exist to help people quit smoking. They exist to sell their product and recruit both former smokers and non-smokers to a new addiction just like tobacco companies did years ago by romanticizing cigarettes. They even had Hollywood onboard selling the idea in movies and on tv shows. There is new data that says that e-cigs are a gateway to harder drugs. Just google.

 

Of course the companies are in business to make money, however the vast, vast, vast majority of users took up vaping as a means to quit smoking and the vast, vast, vast majority of them have been successful. Just Google.

Edited September 10, 2014 by jstraw20