Carnival 3rd qtr earnings on the rise

[TennesseeTater]

This is such a stark contrast to what RCCL did years ago, by actually raising the rates, to ensure a more perfect cruise experience. People thought they were crazy, but they knew EXACTLY what they were doing. People stayed, and found they enjoyed sailing with others that wanted that better cruise experience.

 

And they continue to do so, while Carnival is grasping at an ever out of control spiral.

 

 

That's funny, "Ever out of control spiral." Whether or not we understand or even know their plan, you don't get to be as large and successful as a Company like Carnival Corp and enter an "ever out of control spiral." I guess we will have to wait and see what the market shows in a year or two.

[bruadhin]

That's funny, "Ever out of control spiral." Whether or not we understand or even know their plan, you don't get to be as large and successful as a Company like Carnival Corp and enter an "ever out of control spiral." I guess we will have to wait and see what the market shows in a year or two.

 

Yes, that is a bit dramatic. But don't fool yourself either. Plenty of large businesses, larger than Carnival Corp. have hit the rocks. Sears, JC Penny's, Executive Life, Wachovia, Lehman Brother's, etc. have all been quite big and then suffered a severe and permanent downturn.

 

Ultimately either supply needs to be reduced or demand increased to right this ship. As cheap as money is right now, I doubt reducing supply is going to happen unless it is selling older ships. Even that may not be a real solution as that means sending larger ships to smaller home ports. If you have trouble filling a 2,000 passenger ship, how will it be any easier to fill a 3,000 passenger ship? Sure, a newer ship and nicer amenities may help, but will it help in excess of 1,000 passengers a sailing?

 

Finally, keep in mind, Carnival is profitable. They simply aren't as profitable as they would necessarily like. You can experiment, bide your time, etc. when you are still turning a profit. The writing is hardly on the wall.

[TennesseeTater]

Yes, that is a bit dramatic. But don't fool yourself either. Plenty of large businesses, larger than Carnival Corp. have hit the rocks. Sears, JC Penny's, Executive Life, Wachovia, Lehman Brother's, etc. have all been quite big and then suffered a severe and permanent downturn.

 

Ultimately either supply needs to be reduced or demand increased to right this ship. As cheap as money is right now, I doubt reducing supply is going to happen unless it is selling older ships. Even that may not be a real solution as that means sending larger ships to smaller home ports. If you have trouble filling a 2,000 passenger ship, how will it be any easier to fill a 3,000 passenger ship? Sure, a newer ship and nicer amenities may help, but will it help in excess of 1,000 passengers a sailing?

 

Finally, keep in mind, Carnival is profitable. They simply aren't as profitable as they would necessarily like. You can experiment, bide your time, etc. when you are still turning a profit. The writing is hardly on the wall.

 

Good Point.

[cruisingbluewaters]

Excellent news! Once again, carnival proves to be the industry leader by doing what's best for their shareholders, a strategy that usually proves successful.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[richstowe]

Excellent news! Once again, carnival proves to be the industry leader by doing what's best for their shareholders, a strategy that usually proves successful.

The industry leader ?

 

This is such a stark contrast to what RCCL did years ago, by actually raising the rates, to ensure a more perfect cruise experience. People thought they were crazy, but they knew EXACTLY what they were doing. People stayed, and found they enjoyed sailing with others that wanted that better cruise experience.

 

And they continue to do so, while Carnival is grasping at an ever out of control spiral.

I strongly disagree with your final line Pine Buff but Carnival is no longer the industry leader.

[innkeeper17]

I am still struggling with how the capacity in the cruise industry particularly in the Caribbean can be controlled. I have always thought that the super ship mentality was a poor one. Did anything ever go further with Richard Branson dipping his toes into the industry...

[TennesseeTater]

Here is an interesting story, from cruise critic, about how there are too many cruise ship and berths in the Caribbean at the moment.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5957

[jimbo5544]

That's funny, "Ever out of control spiral." Whether or not we understand or even know their plan, you don't get to be as large and successful as a Company like Carnival Corp and enter an "ever out of control spiral." I guess we will have to wait and see what the market shows in a year or two.

There are posters here who will go to any means to post something with a negative spin on it towards Carnival.

[cjknox]

 

....Keep in mind, Carnival is profitable. They simply aren't as profitable as they would necessarily like.

 

Bingo. This is the situation Carnival Corp. currently finds itself in; which can hardly be considered "a downward spiral". There are multiple factors for the Carnival groups decline in revenue but there are strong financial indications showing steady improvement as we saw last quarter. There's still more work that needs to be done and I don't see a return to normal financial performance until mid - 2015 at the earliest. Nonetheless, the Carnival Cruise Lines brand is the key brand to normalize financially because as they go, so goes the rest of the Carnival Group.

[jimbo5544]

Yes, that is a bit dramatic. But don't fool yourself either. Plenty of large businesses, larger than Carnival Corp. have hit the rocks. Sears, JC Penny's, Executive Life, Wachovia, Lehman Brother's, etc. have all been quite big and then suffered a severe and permanent downturn.

 

Ultimately either supply needs to be reduced or demand increased to right this ship. As cheap as money is right now, I doubt reducing supply is going to happen unless it is selling older ships. Even that may not be a real solution as that means sending larger ships to smaller home ports. If you have trouble filling a 2,000 passenger ship, how will it be any easier to fill a 3,000 passenger ship? Sure, a newer ship and nicer amenities may help, but will it help in excess of 1,000 passengers a sailing?

 

Finally, keep in mind, Carnival is profitable. They simply aren't as profitable as they would necessarily like. You can experiment, bide your time, etc. when you are still turning a profit. The writing is hardly on the wall.

 

They certainly have had a rough couple of years. Not so much from pricing strategies or ship placement, but more from 3 specific corporate incidents which significantly impacted their short term earnings.

 

The newer. bigger, gee whiz ship component just adds to the fray. Are they lagging with new builds? Sure they are. They also have a pretty big fleet of older ships that are stills ailing in the same turf that the Breeze, Sunshine and their other new ships do. In essence, they are competing with themselves.

 

Royal actually did a fairly smart thing when they introduced Oasis and Allure to the Caribbean market. To artificially stimulate the need for filling the two behemoths (at a significant premium per fare I might add) they moved the vast majority of their Caribbean fleet elsewhere. Not sure if it paid off, from a profitability of the rest of the fleet (mainly in Europe for the season) but it sure worked in filling the two big girls.

[bruadhin]

They certainly have had a rough couple of years. Not so much from pricing strategies or ship placement, but more from 3 specific corporate incidents which significantly impacted their short term earnings.

 

The newer. bigger, gee whiz ship component just adds to the fray. Are they lagging with new builds? Sure they are. They also have a pretty big fleet of older ships that are stills ailing in the same turf that the Breeze, Sunshine and their other new ships do. In essence, they are competing with themselves.

 

Royal actually did a fairly smart thing when they introduced Oasis and Allure to the Caribbean market. To artificially stimulate the need for filling the two behemoths (at a significant premium per fare I might add) they moved the vast majority of their Caribbean fleet elsewhere. Not sure if it paid off, from a profitability of the rest of the fleet (mainly in Europe for the season) but it sure worked in filling the two big girls.

 

Yes, I'm not speculating why Carnival has had a downturn. My interest in the cruise industry ebbs and flows with my cruises. When I have one planned, I'm all in. When my vacation plans take me elsewhere then my interest turns there.

 

But yes, RCCL seems to have very strong pricing discipline, at least with Oasis and Allure which are what interest me. I have also heard they are rather expensive to operate on a per passenger basis, which may dictate the need for higher fares. Again, just something I have heard.

 

I'd say Carnival's problem is simply there is too much supply for the demand, and they make up the bulk of the supply right now. Also, on a more macro scale, the recovery isn't really all that great for many Americans, so they aren't spending the money on vacations like before the recession.

[innkeeper17]

I am not totally convinced that the target consumer has even come close to recovering from the recession. Has the idea been brought to possibly "mothball" a few ships until things truly turn around...

[bruadhin]

I am not totally convinced that the target consumer has even come close to recovering from the recession. Has the idea been brought to possibly "mothball" a few ships until things truly turn around...

 

Not to be glib, but ask the Navy how well that works.

 

It doesn't. The ship still needs to be maintained. And now when you are ready to take it out of mothballs years later, it is woefully in need of upgrades and repairs to match the current fleet.

 

A much better solution is to sell excess ships. You old beater is another cruise line's sweet new ride.

 

Personally, I think that is what they should have done with the Destiny. Sell her off and let another cruise line put millions into her in repairs and refurbishments. It would be a brand new ship to them and their passengers versus a retread to Carnival's existing passengers. Just from reading on here, I don't get the feeling Sunshine is going as well as they had hoped. I definitely have not heard of plans to do it to any other ship from the Destiny class.

[TPFKAH]

Not to be glib, but ask the Navy how well that works.

 

It doesn't. The ship still needs to be maintained. And now when you are ready to take it out of mothballs years later, it is woefully in need of upgrades and repairs to match the current fleet.

 

A much better solution is to sell excess ships. You old beater is another cruise line's sweet new ride.

 

Personally, I think that is what they should have done with the Destiny. Sell her off and let another cruise line put millions into her in repairs and refurbishments. It would be a brand new ship to them and their passengers versus a retread to Carnival's existing passengers. Just from reading on here, I don't get the feeling Sunshine is going as well as they had hoped. I definitely have not heard of plans to do it to any other ship from the Destiny class.

 

Something tells me they probably wished they did that after all the stumbling blocks, including the sabotage.

[innkeeper17]

Not to be glib, but ask the Navy how well that works.

 

It doesn't. The ship still needs to be maintained. And now when you are ready to take it out of mothballs years later, it is woefully in need of upgrades and repairs to match the current fleet.

 

A much better solution is to sell excess ships. You old beater is another cruise line's sweet new ride.

 

Personally, I think that is what they should have done with the Destiny. Sell her off and let another cruise line put millions into her in repairs and refurbishments. It would be a brand new ship to them and their passengers versus a retread to Carnival's existing passengers. Just from reading on here, I don't get the feeling Sunshine is going as well as they had hoped. I definitely have not heard of plans to do it to any other ship from the Destiny class.

 

I thought of that to at first then came the question to whom..

 

I am not totally convinced that even with an Asian market strategy will help with expanding the use of the excess ships. I say this for a few reasons... First the Asians are very protective of their markets. They will say to themselves, as they should, why don't I develop and cater to my own demand. Second I don't think the Cruise Industry understands the culture or demands that come alone with an Asian market.

 

This is no way a reflection of ignorance or racist feelings. I lived in Asia for many years, I understand how business is done. I know the culture and the business practices.

[bruadhin]

I thought of that to at first then came the question to whom..

 

I am not totally convinced that even with an Asian market strategy will help with expanding the use of the excess ships. I say this for a few reasons... First the Asians are very protective of their markets. They will say to themselves, as they should, why don't I develop and cater to my own demand. Second I don't think the Cruise Industry understands the culture or demands that come alone with an Asian market.

 

This is no way a reflection of ignorance or racist feelings. I lived in Asia for many years, I understand how business is done. I know the culture and the business practices.

 

Don't forget all the small lines worldwide. I'm sure many would jump at the chance to pick up a Destiny class ship at a reasonable price. It could easily be decades newer and hundred of passengers larger than their current ship. They could either then expand their fleet or retire their older ship.

[innkeeper17]

Don't forget all the small lines worldwide. I'm sure many would jump at the chance to pick up a Destiny class ship at a reasonable price. It could easily be decades newer and hundred of passengers larger than their current ship. They could either then expand their fleet or retire their older ship.

 

Possible but do you think the worldwide credit markets are that liquid yet...

 

Maybe Carnival can do a "Buy here, Pay here" promotion

 

Not being a smart ass...just objective

[bruadhin]

Possible but do you think the worldwide credit markets are that liquid yet...

 

Maybe Carnival can do a "Buy here, Pay here" promotion

 

Not being a smart ass...just objective

 

Yes. There is so much money slushing around it isn't even funny.

 

Right now, if you pay the Fed they will hold your money for 30 days, and that isn't a joke.

 

There is tons of money out there looking for something to do. The terms would just have to be right to make it happens.

[jimbo5544]

Not to be glib, but ask the Navy how well that works.

 

It doesn't. The ship still needs to be maintained. And now when you are ready to take it out of mothballs years later, it is woefully in need of upgrades and repairs to match the current fleet.

 

A much better solution is to sell excess ships. You old beater is another cruise line's sweet new ride.

 

Personally, I think that is what they should have done with the Destiny. Sell her off and let another cruise line put millions into her in repairs and refurbishments. It would be a brand new ship to them and their passengers versus a retread to Carnival's existing passengers. Just from reading on here, I don't get the feeling Sunshine is going as well as they had hoped. I definitely have not heard of plans to do it to any other ship from the Destiny class.

Not sure of the drivers of why they have not continued the "sunshine" project. I will tell you I was simply amazed at what they have done with that ship. Far surpassed my expectations. Reviews of her sailings have been mainly positive since she came "across the pond".

[jimbo5544]

Don't forget all the small lines worldwide. I'm sure many would jump at the chance to pick up a Destiny class ship at a reasonable price. It could easily be decades newer and hundred of passengers larger than their current ship. They could either then expand their fleet or retire their older ship.

They would much rather sell off the Fantasy class. A small re-done Fantasy class of ship would be a pretty good match. If you google the old Holiday and Celebration they are pretty good ideas of what the fleet could look like.

[Podna's]

And they continue to do so, while Carnival is grasping at an ever out of control spiral.

 

 

Lol. Wishing thinking? So far from the truth.

[bruadhin]

They would much rather sell off the Fantasy class. A small re-done Fantasy class of ship would be a pretty good match. If you google the old Holiday and Celebration they are pretty good ideas of what the fleet could look like.

 

I'll take your word for it. I just went with Destiny class since that is what they picked for Sunshine. I never saw a Destiny class nor have I seen Sunshine. We went out of New Orleans while the Conquest was still there. So far we have only done Conquest class ships, some with more additions to them along the way.

 

I'd pick whatever ship I felt I would get the most bang for the buck in offloading. Either because of delayed maintenance, revenue potential, value on the resale market, etc. Obviously a ship that I could part with as well.

[Disconnections]

I'll take your word for it. I just went with Destiny class since that is what they picked for Sunshine. I never saw a Destiny class nor have I seen Sunshine. We went out of New Orleans while the Conquest was still there. So far we have only done Conquest class ships, some with more additions to them along the way.

 

I'd pick whatever ship I felt I would get the most bang for the buck in offloading. Either because of delayed maintenance, revenue potential, value on the resale market, etc. Obviously a ship that I could part with as well.

 

Don't worry, you're not missing much. Conquest class ships are pretty much the same as a Destiny class ship with some enhancements.

[bruadhin]

Don't worry, you're not missing much. Conquest class ships are pretty much the same as a Destiny class ship with some enhancements.

 

I'm looking forward to the Breeze. I enjoyed the Blue Iguana and Guy's on the Conquest. I want to try the snacks in Red Frog Rum Bar too and it looks like the waterworks will be a blast. It is a shame the shows aren't as good. We never did them before, our son wasn't old enough to sit still and we weren't going to put him in after hours baby sitting on a family vacation.

 

Although I guess really the Breeze is just a Destiny supersized as they all share the same basic layout.

[jimbo5544]

I'm looking forward to the Breeze. I enjoyed the Blue Iguana and Guy's on the Conquest. I want to try the snacks in Red Frog Rum Bar too and it looks like the waterworks will be a blast. It is a shame the shows aren't as good. We never did them before, our son wasn't old enough to sit still and we weren't going to put him in after hours baby sitting on a family vacation.

 

Although I guess really the Breeze is just a Destiny supersized as they all share the same basic layout.

It's not that the Breeze is bigger, she is better. So much more better interior design Guys, Red Frog, Blue Iguana, etc tec.