QM2's next refit: What would you change?

[ren0312]

Would changing to more fuel efficient diesels enable a 26 knot transatlantic crossing speed? How is the food on board QM2 balcony cabin compared to Celebrity or Costa? OT but why do navy ships still use gas turbines when diesels are enough for 30 knots?

Edited October 28, 2014 by ren0312

[balf]

After you pay thousands for a cruise I can't figure why anyone would choose to line up with a tray like you were in the High School cafeteria to eat a meal and then have to fight for seats.

 

 

The reason for most is time. Breakfast and lunch is much quicker in SS than in the resteraunts and many choose to spend less time eating (dinner is different for obvious reasons) and more time enjoying the ship and all it has to offer.

 

David.

[TheOldBear]

Would changing to more fuel efficient diesels enable a 26 knot transatlantic crossing speed? How is the food on board QM2 balcony cabin compared to Celebrity or Costa? OT but why do navy ships still use gas turbines when diesels are enough for 30 knots?

 

Diesels are optimized to run at a constant speed for economical operation. This can be fairly flexible in operation with electric drive and multiple diesel engines.

 

Gas turbines are most efficient at full throttle, but can rapidly change their output power. They also are small and light compared to diesel or steam plats of similar output [but need to move lots more air].

 

Warship applications [FFG7, DD963, CG47….] use direct gearing with controllable pitch propellors. [there will likely be a trend toward electric drive like on QM2]. One exciting thing with controllable pitch propellers is a 'crash stop' - leaving the engine at full throttle, and flipping the propeller from full ahead to full astern - that will slow a warship from flank speed to stopped within its own length.

 

Ships like the QM2 are called 'CODAG' [COmbined Diesel And Gas turbine] and combine the advantages of both power plants. Diesel for economical cruise, and gas turbine sprint capability - with each engine acting as a backup for the other.

[pmb1]

...One exciting thing with controllable pitch propellers is a 'crash stop' - leaving the engine at full throttle, and flipping the propeller from full ahead to full astern - that will slow a warship from flank speed to stopped within its own length. ...

From 35kt to zero in say 600 feet? I'm fairly gullible but that I can't believe without considerable documentation.

[Underwatr]

From "The USCGC Hamilton (WHEC-715) Coast Guard Ship of the Future," US Naval Institute Proceedings, October 1969

The Hamilton's two controllable-pitch propellers, 13 feet in diameter, are

the largest of the type ever installed on a U.S. ship. The four-bladed propellers

are inward turning for greater backing maneuverability. Propeller

pitch is automatically reduced in the event of engine overload. This permits

the engines to develop full r.p.m. (i.e., maximum thrust) when towing,

regardless of the size of the tow. Backing down is achieved by reversing

propeller pitch rather than by reversing shaft rotation. The propellers may

be shifted from full pitch ahead to full pitch astern in 30 seconds. The ship is

able to come to a "crash stop" from full ahead before the pitch is completely

reversed-within the equivalent of one or two ship's lengths.

https://www.uscg.mil/history/cutters/378/docs/387-1969-USNIP_article.pdf

 

Which is not to say that a ship designed for commercial passenger service would be capable of performing this feat...

[JollyJackTar52]

From 35kt to zero in say 600 feet? I'm fairly gullible but that I can't believe without considerable documentation.

 

I once saw a BBC News Report from a Royal Navy Type 45 Destroyer where the Reporter was almost thrown off his feet as the ship did a Crash Turn.

 

These 8,500 ton, 500ft ships can go from a dead stop to 30Knots in just over a minute, crash stop from full speed in a couple of ship lengths, and crash turn at full speed within 3/4 ship lengths. Her turning ability is such that she can draw the number '8' in the ocean with her wake.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpqUxh0pJI8

 

Impressive machines, but such antics would no doubt spill afternoon tea on Queen Mary 2

[DDBINK1]

I once saw a BBC News Report from a Royal Navy Type 45 Destroyer where the Reporter was almost thrown off his feet as the ship did a Crash Turn.

 

These 8,500 ton, 500ft ships can go from a dead stop to 30Knots in just over a minute, crash stop from full speed in a couple of ship lengths, and crash turn at full speed within 3/4 ship lengths. Her turning ability is such that she can draw the number '8' in the ocean with her wake.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpqUxh0pJI8

 

Impressive machines, but such antics would no doubt spill afternoon tea on Queen Mary 2

 

I remember some maneuvers on QM2 on the Inaugural Caribbean Cruise when the ship announced it would do a full circle at high speed and we should be ready for a bit or movement. It seemed ok and smooth, but I was on the sun deck and drinking martinii's and the wait staff kept them coming since I tipped well with cash. (always keeps their attention where it should be) :rolleyes: I did note that the sun changed position as we went around.

[pmb1]

Thanks, Underwatr and JollyJackTar52, for updating what I thought I knew about modern destroyers. They aren't dead stopping in a ship's length, but it's close enough.

[TheOldBear]

From 35kt to zero in say 600 feet? I'm fairly gullible but that I can't believe without considerable documentation.

 

From flank to stopped in under 435 feet [length of a Perry class frigate]. I was 'officer of the deck', but the Captain had the conn.

[Rotterdam]

[/color]

 

I remember some maneuvers on QM2 on the Inaugural Caribbean Cruise when the ship announced it would do a full circle at high speed and we should be ready for a bit or movement. It seemed ok and smooth, but I was on the sun deck and drinking martinii's and the wait staff kept them coming since I tipped well with cash. (always keeps their attention where it should be) :rolleyes:

 

 

 

I did note that the sun changed position as we went around.

 

So nice to know there are other well travelled passengers still!!!

[bob brown]

This is a very interesting thread....

 

Besides their superior power-to-weight superiority over diesel's, I believe gas turbines also enjoy a cleaner burn....very handy for navigating in those restricted area's that require the use of cleaner fuel and less smoke. I did notice that in Halifax the QM2 now ''plugs in" to shore-line electric power. I asked the ship's environmental officer about that, and he said they just started experimenting with that, but it is debatable over whether the ship, or the shore facility generation, produces a lesser carbon-footprint....

 

Save fuel? How about covering the funnel and any other available surface area with solar panel's? Or for that matter, hoisting up some sail's for good-ole wind power when available?:p

 

Perhaps they could expand the Atlantic Room to include the outside Observation Deck, to something more like the Commodore Club? And with its higher location, perhaps it would be okay to have more windows....something akin to HAL's "Crow's Nest" lounges. For those wanting the outside experience, they could still go up to the Lookout, when wind condition's permit...

[balf]

. I did notice that in Halifax the QM2 now ''plugs in" to shore-line electric power. I asked the ship's environmental officer about that, and he said they just started experimenting with that,

 

...

 

Could it be that they would like to get rid of the extra storage and expense needed for low sulphur fuel required in EU ports?

 

David.

[Underwatr]

At least nominally it's a pollution control measure,

 

http://www.dailynews.com/business/20131230/ports-vessels-get-ready-for-new-statewide-regulation-to-lower-emissions-through-shore-power

 

Shore power cuts air pollution from ships at berth by 95 percent, according to port officials.

[BlueRiband]

I got a chance to speak with the ship's electrical officer and he said that Halifax was a test for one of the system components being qualified. The timetable is to be able to "plug in" in Brooklyn by July 2015.

 

"Plug in" power is demanded by activist local residents in some ports. In New York locals complain of the cargo terminal as well, although I'm not aware of any plans to plug in those crew quarters despite their presence 365 while cruise ships call perhaps every two weeks at most.

 

What would be interesting is how fast they can change over between ship generated and shore side power. What happens if the ship breaks a mooring line and has to power up engines fast?

[bob brown]

I would be surprised if they totally shut down the diesel's while on shore-line power....perhaps they shut down some of them, or reduce them to the lowest idle speed. Starting one of those beast's is not like starting a car or truck engine.

[Salacia]

I've been following the efforts of the Red Hook Community to secure shore power for ships docked there. A brief history of those efforts can be found here: http://aviewfromthehook.blogspot.com/2014/05/shore-power-is-coming-at-brooklyn.html

 

It is not unheard of that NYC experiences a power blackout or more often a brownout when demand is high, or there is a drain on the system due to storms, etc. QM2 must have some system in place that would allow the ship to power up even without the aid of on-shore power. It isn't like the ship is dead in the water while using on-shore plug in- but rather that the ship is deriving power from a different source. As I understand it, it is simply a question of a different power source when the ship docked, not a change in capabilities. Correction welcomed. -S

[ren0312]

This is a very interesting thread....

 

Besides their superior power-to-weight superiority over diesel's, I believe gas turbines also enjoy a cleaner burn....very handy for navigating in those restricted area's that require the use of cleaner fuel and less smoke. I did notice that in Halifax the QM2 now ''plugs in" to shore-line electric power. I asked the ship's environmental officer about that, and he said they just started experimenting with that, but it is debatable over whether the ship, or the shore facility generation, produces a lesser carbon-footprint....

 

Save fuel? How about covering the funnel and any other available surface area with solar panel's? Or for that matter, hoisting up some sail's for good-ole wind power when available?:p

 

Perhaps they could expand the Atlantic Room to include the outside Observation Deck, to something more like the Commodore Club? And with its higher location, perhaps it would be okay to have more windows....something akin to HAL's "Crow's Nest" lounges. For those wanting the outside experience, they could still go up to the Lookout, when wind condition's permit...

 

Make the passengers power part of the ship with in room stationary bikes hooked to to the turbines.

[Salacia]

Make the passengers power part of the ship with in room stationary bikes hooked to to the turbines.

 

Great idea. Would certainly give us rowers a bit of support!

[DDBINK1]

So nice to know there are other well travelled passengers still!!!

 

Is that comment a tongue in cheek thing? :confused:

[DDBINK1]

Great idea. Would certainly give us rowers a bit of support!

 

Wait a minute, are you proposing that those in the lower berths give up the oar and start biking ??:eek:

[Salacia]

Wait a minute, are you proposing that those in the lower berths give up the oar and start biking ??:eek:

 

Only for Platinum Level and above, provided there is another rower to take their place - properly dressed, of course!

Edited October 31, 2014 by Salacia

[balf]

Only for Platinum Level and above, provided there is another rower to take their place - properly dressed, of course!

 

Come the revolution it will be the Grills passengers manning the oars.

 

David.

[DDBINK1]

Only for Platinum Level and above, provided there is another rower to take their place - properly dressed, of course!

 

Yes, the proper dress will make it appropriate of course. However, the electricity generated by the biking must go to Grills first then trickle down to the rowers bare light bulbs.

[DDBINK1]

Come the revolution it will be the Grills passengers manning the oars.

 

David.

 

Ghastly idea old boy.

[Yoshikitty]

I may be in the vast minority, but we don't find the King's Court too badly.

 

We liked the buffet on the QE a bit better - visually - mainly because of the huge windows with the unobstructed view.

 

That won't be possible because Cunard would have to get rid of the promenade deck which certainly won't happen.

 

QE's buffet has a major flaw because of the narrow aisle which makes it had to pass when carrying a tablet etc.

 

Random picture from one of the Princees ships - we prefer King's Court to that:

Edited November 7, 2014 by Yoshikitty