Just off the allure with Norovirus

[chengkp75]

Thank you for your response from what i have read that is the best way to find out for sure if somebody has norovirus. This was not done on the allure. Just temp, blood pressure, and heart rate. Then sent on my way. On the bright side I really did feel much better within 12 hours. Quick in and quick out:-)

 

That is not just the "best" way to determine if it was noro, it is the only, and the ship is not set up to do the virus screenings. In a serious outbreak, they will try to collect fecal samples from patients, but these are just kept in the fridge until they can be sent to CDC for screening. If you look at the CDC noro outbreak update list, and click on individual reports, many will not be noro, and many will have no determinable cause listed. All GI illnesses are reported, but many are not as contagious as noro.

 

Just because there is noro virus around the ship doesn't mean that you may not have caught another virus like the flu.

 

I believe you are saying that RCI is attempting to "low ball" reporting of GI illness? For PR reasons? Here's a few flaws in your logic.

 

As part of the USPH's Vessel Sanitation Program, which regulates the cruise industry's (at least those calling at US ports) sanitation, the ship's medical logs are inspected whenever USPH does their inspections. All medical center visits are recorded, simply from an insurance/legal standpoint. All GI illnesses reported, whether noro or not, must be recorded separately, and when the number of reported cases reaches 2% of passengers and crew, the USPH/CDC must be notified. Failure to do so can result in the ship losing it's privileges to embark passengers in the US (in essence putting the ship out of business). For this reason, GI reporting is very important to the cruise lines. When the number of cases reaches 3%, the USPH/CDC will issue an outbreak update, and may very well have inspectors board the ship. The Allure has not had an outbreak update issued, while the Grandeur operating on nearly the same schedule (1/24 to 2/3) has had one. This leads me to believe that the outbreak on the Allure was not serious enough to reach the 3% threshold, and therefore the apparent sanitizing that you witnessed, and the alerts made over the PA were normal protocols, or even going pro-active to keep the cases down. Much of this depends on the trend of the cases, whether the number of new cases is going up or down each day.

 

"Yes royal is on top of things...OK somebody comes down with a gastrointestinal illness on day 7 on a ship that admits it has a contagious outbreak and its not contagious. Maybe its just the food stinks? Rolleyeyes take no offense but what are you smoking are you are delusional anybody reading this know that. " What makes you so sure that because 2% of the people onboard had noro (or some GI illness), and 98% didn't, that you automatically got it? Try not to belittle other posters until you have your facts right.

 

Many experienced cruisers visit the CDC website to see whether or not the ship they are sailing on has had an outbreak, or a poor USPH score, and this info will get out to the cruising public.

 

Whether or not you are contagious, if you spread the virus to your son, you were not practicing sufficiently good personal hygiene. Is contagion some magical way that viruses are sent from one person to the other? No. It is through contact with exposed surfaces.

 

I know most 4 year olds prefer finger food, but in a noro environment, finger food is the worst thing you can do. And your 4 years old's daycare center is probably as effective a breeding ground for noro as the ship.

 

If you don't want to cruise again, fine. Don't blame RCI, or any cruise line for not doing their job until you fully understand that job.

 

I've had noro, and I've worked on ships remediating outbreaks.

[dpwex]

My family and I (seven people in four cabins on opposite sides of the ship) also disembarked the Allure two days ago. While none of us endured norovirus symptoms, four of us have become infected with strains of influenza, with symptoms developing beginning on day 5 of the trip. The initial "victim" was seen in the infirmary, tested positive for flu and both patient and spouse prescribed Tamiflu, as well as told to quarantine for 24 hrs. No one else in our group exhibited any symptoms. I began to feel congested Saturday afternoon/evening, but nothing that signaled full blown illness. By dinner time, feeling less than healthy, so my husband and I briefly met with our family for a toast before appetizers then excused ourselves. By the time we went to bed, the chills and fever had begun. At this point I absolutely knew I had the flu (Disclaimer: I AM a healthcare professional for 23 yrs specializing in ER/ICU) We stayed in the cabin from that point forward; I called the infirmary in the morning before disembarkation and asked if they could provide a couple of masks for us so that the coughing that had subsequently developed could be contained. We were to make the drive from the port back to our home in central Florida with two other family members, but opted to rent a car and drive ourselves to limit their exposure. Drove straight to an urgent care and as predicted- positive for the flu.

While RC did make many efforts to keep infectious spread at bay, with announcements regarding same, hand sanitizer stations at every turn, staff with containers of hand sanitizer ready to administer, extraordinarily hot water in the public lavatories to wash up, signs on proper hand washing technique.... Containing an outbreak of any viral illness on these mega ships is going to be difficult. It's a 5000+ passenger, 2000+ employee Petri dish and let's face facts: most people are not careful or courteous when they cough, sneeze, etc. sitting in the shows, people were expelling bodily fluids all over the place- if you can feel 'breeze' from a cough or a sneeze, that person didn't cover or contain it!!

Addressing the training of the medical staff, I must say I am not impressed. The provider told my family member that the incubation period for influenza is 8 days, when in fact it is 1-4 days ( ref. CDC ); it can take longer for symptoms to appear.

One must be vigilant- sanitize, wash frequently; cough into a tissue -sleeves aren't really effective; grab an extra napkin at the start of the buffets and use it to handle the utensils that everyone else handles to serve their food to limit cross contamination; use stairs instead of elevators when feasible (avoid close quarters).

Funny/strange- over the last few years I've seen many images of people around the world, mostly Asia/China, wearing masks everywhere they go, presumable to protect against avian flu, etc. and I've always thought how miserable that must be. Right now, doesn't seem so miserable compared to the way I'm feeling now.

Edited February 3, 2015 by dpwex

[dpwex]

Quote connes1: "Later that day lunch time I became ill fatigued, feverish (chills)loss of apatite ,nausea and vomiting. At roughly 3 p.m. I called the nurse expecting to be told that she would come to my room but I was told to come down to deck 2 and see the nurse which I did. She took my blood pressure my heart rate my temperature and told me that I had a low grade fever of 100.2 or 37 degrees Celsius and told me that I did not have the norovirus because that would be indicative of a high grade fever."

Again, they (ships' medical staff) have it wrong. Low grade fever is one of the cardinal symptoms of norovirus exposure/infection not high grade! We also heard the captain's announcement that the nurse would come to the cabin to evaluate any individuals experiencing symptoms of nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, etc. I am of the opinion that there were too many cases to make that actually possible to accomplish.

[micmacmissy]

Wow, way to bash the OP.

 

Sorry you got sick- that stinks. Hope your child is feeling better.

 

It does sound like the ship staff didn't handle it well...shouldn't ANYONE who is vomiting for ANY unknown reason be quarantined? Whether it's noro, or the flu, or another bug...it can still be contagious! I think it was responsible of you to quarantine yourself.

 

And noro is not always accompanied by a fever, but when it is, it is usually a low grade fever, NOT a high grade fever. Sounds like the ship nurse was off on that, too.

[mollyeilis]

She took my blood pressure my heart rate my temperature and told me that I had a low grade fever of 100.2 or 37 degrees Celsius and told me that I did not have the norovirus because that would be indicative of a high grade fever.

 

 

webmd:

 

Other norovirus symptoms include:

 

• Low-grade fever
  

 

 

CDC just says "fever".

 

 

 

 

foodsafety.gov doesn't even mention fever.

 

 

 

 

mayoclinic also says "low grade fever".

 

 

 

 

I'm thinking the nurse got it exactly the opposite. :o

 

 

nhs.uk (their national health service) says "Some people may also have: a raised temperature (over 38°C/100.4°F)".

 

 

And that's actually how most of the info sites mention fever; it's NOT something that ALWAYS happens with noro. So it should not be a diagnostic tool at all, since it's an "also may present with" symptom.

 

 

Eep.

[connes1]

webmd:

 

Other norovirus symptoms include:

 

• Low-grade fever
  

 

 

CDC just says "fever".

 

 

 

 

foodsafety.gov doesn't even mention fever.

 

 

 

 

mayoclinic also says "low grade fever".

 

 

 

 

I'm thinking the nurse got it exactly the opposite. :o

 

 

nhs.uk (their national health service) says "Some people may also have: a raised temperature (over 38°C/100.4°F)".

 

 

And that's actually how most of the info sites mention fever; it's NOT something that ALWAYS happens with noro. So it should not be a diagnostic tool at all, since it's an "also may present with" symptom.

 

 

Eep.

CDC says low grade fever on their website for symptoms.

[Biker19]

Contagious outbreaks on cruise ships this time of the year is the norm - it happens every year. The only thing that changes is the severity and how it is handled on each ship. If you are a germ phone don't book a cruise at this time of the year.

[connes1]

Contagious outbreaks on cruise ships this time of the year is the norm - it happens every year. The only thing that changes is the severity and how it is handled on each ship. If you are a germ phone don't book a cruise at this time of the year.

I like that "germ phone". It made me laugh:-).

[cb at sea]

Noro is sort of "self-quarantining"...you do NOT want to be out in public...you certainly do NOT want to eat....all you want to do is lie down and get over it!

[NJcruisenewbie]

Take it from someone who had noro last year if you really had it you wouldn't have had the strength to get down to deck 2. I slept on the bathroom floor in my house when I had it (yes, I got it in my own backyard). There are tons of stomach bugs that aren't noro. Noro comes on suddenly and violently.

[Starry Eyes]

Take it from someone who had noro last year if you really had it you wouldn't have had the strength to get down to deck 2. I slept on the bathroom floor in my house when I had it (yes, I got it in my own backyard). There are tons of stomach bugs that aren't noro. Noro comes on suddenly and violently.

Not everybody gets as sick as you did. Some people pick up the virus yet do not get any symptoms at all.

From CDC: "Furthermore, up to 30% of norovirus infections are asymptomatic, and asymptomatic persons can shed virus, albeit at lower titers than symptomatic persons (26--28). The role of asymptomatic infection in transmission and outbreaks of norovirus remains unclear."

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr6003a1.htm

[dc8]

I was on the Jan 25 sailing of the Allure. I did not get sick and have not since I got off the ship this past Sunday. I personally did not directly know of anyone getting noro, although the Captain did say in the captain's talk on Jan 31 that there were about 80 people who had the virus. There was a handout in the cabins about the outbreak and the strong warnings to wash with soap and water and use the hand sanitizer around the ship. Also all salt and pepper shakers were removed from the Windjammer and the dinning room from what I saw. My wife and I did not eat any food with our hands and frequently washed and used the sanitizer liquid. We also avoided touching common surfaces like walls and stair railings. RCI staff were constantly cleaning all surfaces including the chairs in the Windjammer. Despite all the warnings and notices I still witnessed adults and children grabbing food off the buffet with their hands, people with fingers in their noses, and men using the bathroom without washing afterwards. Probably amazing that only 80 people got sick. With the sloppy practices by some of the guests I think RCI did a good job of containing the outbreak.

[JustOnce]

I was on the January 18th sailing, just before your cruise. My husband contacted norovirus on the last day and his symptoms were like yours. Our flight home was awful. It spread like wild fire. First I contracted it caring for him on our way home. In spite of being diligent, My son only passed a paper towel to me while I was vomiting and came down with the exact symptoms: weakness, chills, forceful vomiting and 24-36 hours of severe diarrhea, followed by some weakness but a full recovery. Our doctor said this is classic norovirus and I have no idea who my husband caught it from. We were in stateroom 10239 and otherwise had a lovely cruise.

[cb at sea]

Hot water or cold water...doesn't matter. You can't get water hot enough to "sanitize" your hands! It's the SOAP and scrubbing that loosens the germs/viruses and the rinsing that removes them from your skin.

[Caleby]

Also picked up Noro, not on Allure but on Grandeur on the 2/21 - 3/3 cruise. I didn't have a fever. The Nurse ended up asking me for my symptoms and ended up giving me a shot for the nausea and some medication. I somehow found the strength to make it down to Deck 1 at 1AM in the morning, so yes, it is true that they sometimes ask you to come to the Medical Facility. I wouldn't wish this horrible virus on anyone else :(

[Boat Drinks56]

I have a friend on the Allure this week!!!

[lewiswharf]

CDC states low-grade fever as a Less common symptom.

 

Glad you're feeling better.

[Missvid]

Our family of 7 sailed on the Allure February 1, we got notified of delayed boarding as they did the deep cleaning because of Noro. We have been impressed by the efforts of RC to try to stop further infections all the way. They were cleaning non stop. When you go on a ship, you take your chances to contract some bug, sorry, if anyone's holiday was ruined, but it happens.

RC does not cause these outbreaks, we the passengers do, they do their best to contain it, we have to do our part to keep clean if possible.

We have been lucky, and did not see anyone sick, but we knew some people were.:)

[reallyitsmema]

I have a friend on the Allure this week!!!

 

I have family on the Allure this week and am not worried. This thread is a month old, someone dragged it forward today. I have not seen any postings from people saying they have gotten noro on the Allure in the last few weeks.