MUTS being implementing on a forth cruise line!

[bdjam]

Its really quite easy-

If you don't like MUTS then read some where else if you can't then go on a different ship

That’s the point – if MUTS permeates the cruising industry, where do you suggest I go for another ship?

[OnTheRocks]

No we don't. As the very involved mother of a five year old I find your comment upsetting. Some of us actually do talk to our children and read to them and enjoy their company.

 

Good for you! Maybe there's hope, yet. Are you upset because I said it, or you know it to be true in many cases? Thanks for agreeing with me that video babysitting isn't child raising.

[dosi]

Good for you! Maybe there's hope, yet. Are you upset because I said it, or you know it to be true in many cases? Thanks for agreeing with me that video babysitting isn't child raising.

 

I am upset that you believe most people are not involved parents. I do not believe this to be true. The parents I know, for the most part, are active in and interested in the lives of their children.

 

I think travel is one of the best experiences a child can have. I am a firm supporter of parents bringing their children on vacation with them and involving them in all aspects of the trip from planning to packing to unpacking and cleaning up after ward. While I do let my son attend the kids camp on the ship it is because he wants to go and be with kids his age and away from the folks for a few hours each day. But as I stated before I don't believe in "parking" kids with any type of babysitter. My son is my responsiblity, not someone elses.

[OnTheRocks]

I am upset that you believe most people are not involved parents.

 

I think we agree on more than we disagree. So, why do so many family cars/SUV's sold today come with video entertainment systems, and why are so many so excited about bigger versions of the same on ships? Things have definitely changed over the years, and not necessarily for the better. I think the degradation of social structures and the advent of devices that allow us to isolate ourselves from social contact go hand in hand.

[bdjam]

First, I'd like to say, bdjam, I wasn't even remotely talking about you being rude to other posters on this thread.

Truce – I agree pretty much with all you’ve posted. I also agree that personal attacks are not appropriate, especially since I’ve been on the barbed end of personal attacks repeatedly over my opinion of MUTS.

 

As for frustration about the direction that cruising is headed, I think we all need to take a step back sometimes and think a little about the cruising industry. Usually our discussion around MUTS centers on ships that are dedicated to the 7-day, entry level, Caribbean market. The fact that MUTS is on Sea and Grand Princesses I hope was a misguided attempt to move the product by Princess. It’s interesting that the Bridge Cam is trained on the MUTS screen on Grand Princess and I’ve yet to see it on when the ship has been in Europe. As Chris pointed out, the people at Princess must know what they’re doing – they retro-fitted Grand Princess (and, as they did with Sea Princess, spoiled the exterior design of the ship) for however many millions of dollars and now they only use the thing part time…? While the 7-day Caribbean cruises might be the perfect place for this contraption, most of the rest of the Princess itineraries are not right for it, especially the longer, more exotic itineraries on the smaller ships in the fleet. Apparently, after announcing that they would retro fit the Grand Class ships, Princess realized their mistake.

 

Part of all this is what adds fuel to the flames of the debate. Princess is two cruise lines – the entry level line that is represented by high-density ships like Caribbean Princess and the more traditional line that is represented by the Sun and Explorer classes. The two different types of experiences don’t blend. I’ve heard from people who chose Caribbean Princess expecting the same type of experience they got on Island or Coral and were disappointed. I don’t think Caribbean Princess devotees would be comfortable on a long Island Princess cruise with days at sea and nothing to do. RCI putting a rock wall, ice rink and surfing pool on their ships may not rankle their passengers so – there’s really only one demographic over there whereas there’s more than one here.

 

The trick for Princess – trying to offer something for everyone – is to try to keep everyone happy. Permeating the fleet with MUTS will not keep all of the Princess loyalists happy – in fact I would venture to say that since MUTS appeals to the “new” cruiser, it will keep few of the loyalists happy. How Princess reconciles this dichotomy will dictate how Princess survives in the industry. Will the cruise line become a big ship, entry level line like RCI? Hopefully not. Will it become a boutique line? Don’t see that happening either.

 

It will be interesting to see what happens to Princess – and it’s also interesting that with other cruise lines adding MUTS, Princess has retracted from its original plan to retro fit the Grand Class. That act alone demonstrates to me that MUTS isn’t the blockbuster idea Princess originally thought it was. And as far as I’m concerned, that’s a good thing. The bottom line is that I don't need (nor do I want) a big screen TV hung from a funnel to have a good cruise.

[Lynda90]

I find that Seatrade Insider has a lot of the same stories as CND but is better written. I think it's pithier (which I prefer) and it's free, which appeals to my stingy nature. :)

Beth, do you have a link to Seatrade Insider? I'd love to take a look at it.

 

Thanks!

[calikak]

Yes I do, here it is:

 

http://www.cruisecommunity.com/Headlines.asp

 

You will have to create a log-in, but it's free, you're just giving them an e-mail address and I don't think it's generated any spam for me. They do send me an e-mail once a week with the latest headlines, but I don't remember if I requested that or if it's automatic.

[roe2ship]

Believe it or not Chris, many (perhaps the majority) of passengers have absolutely no interest in the mind-pablum offered by video entertainment and prefer a more social set of entertainment options. Of course, it depends how you were raised. When we went on car trips, our parents answered questions about the things we saw, learned about what was going in our lives, and re-connected with us. Now parents just slap a video into the in-car entertainment system so the kids will shut up. But I digress.

Movies Under the Stars isn't a bad idea when it is designed into the ship. The objections (and there are many) come from the daytime use of the system which a) disturbs those who like to relax in the sun during the day and b) acts as a kid magnet and gives many parents an excuse to leave their young ones to their own devices.

My gosh, you sound just like another poster on this board.:rolleyes:

More megaships for all, let 3100-5100 be the norm...

Lower prices will fill them all...

Care to explain then why RCI voyager class ships have the highest prices among all the mass market lines?

What to do about the changing nature of cruising? I don't know, sail on the expensive traditionalist cruise lines

Sounds like a pretty simple solution to me. If one is so die hard on the traditions of cruising, why wouldn't one use their wallet to satisfy themselves??

Princess/Cunard use their traditions and history to provide a different type of experience.

Since when did Princess fall into the same category as Cunard?

I don’t think Caribbean Princess devotees would be comfortable on a long Island Princess cruise with days at sea and nothing to do.

So you think that Caribbean Princess only offers Movies under the Stars on sea days? Or is the Island Princess lacking activies on board? My plans are when my kids are a bit older, I will cruise to Hawaii with bells on and enjoy that cruise just as much without the big TV:rolleyes:

RCI putting a rock wall, ice rink and surfing pool on their ships may not rankle their passengers so – there’s really only one demographic over there whereas there’s more than one here.

And what demographic is that??

[spongerob]

OK, Beth, now I see it. Post #58 is a great example of how posts on this board turn nasty.

[CruiseFever]

OK, Beth, now I see it. Post #58 is a great example of how posts on this board turn nasty.

 

#24 is not real heart-warming either

 

:rolleyes:

[Nolesfan]

Nolesfan, I'm not quite sure why you're taking such offense. I hope you'll re-read my comments and see that what I was trying to suggest is that more of the passengers on Caribbean Princess are "first-time Princess cruisers" than are "previous Princess cruisers."

 

I don't think it makes one a "MASS MARKET SNOB" to recognize that Princess is very successfully marketing this ship to cruisers who are first-time Princess cruisers.

 

My point is that you are making a conscious effort to count how many new cruisers there are on board regardless if it their first cruise or first Princess cruise. Why would you do that? There is are a number of poster here who take every chance they can to remind everyone how Princess used to be more exclusive and now they are just trying to become a mass market cruiseline by offering non-traditional cruise options.

 

Do people who are so upset by new features really think Princess would just spend millions of dollars on technology without some market research? I think what they are upset with is there are indeed less people such as themselves who want a traditional cruise experience.

 

I know for myself I could care less about "Tea Time" or "Traditional Dining". I like to cruise because it offers a unique way to visit multiple new places without the other hassles of traveling. I am not anti-social but I am realistic enough to accept that many traditional cruise features were born before they advent of cellphones, internet and many other technological advances.

 

If people don't like what a cruiseline is doing, they most effective way to show their displeasure is with their wallet. It really is not Princess or any other cruiselines job to cater to a minority regardless of how many cruises they have made with that line. If they are going to realize a better profit margin by attracting more people who have a different agenda then others I don't think anyone should hold it against them.

[bdjam]

So you think that Caribbean Princess only offers Movies under the Stars on sea days? Or is the Island Princess lacking activies on board? My plans are when my kids are a bit older, I will cruise to Hawaii with bells on and enjoy that cruise just as much without the big TV

It depends on whether or not you read things that aren’t there into my post, I guess. I never said that was all Caribbean Princess offered so please do not try to start another argument with me based on something I didn’t say. I will clarify by saying that Island Princess on the 15 day run offers a much more traditional experience than does Caribbean Princess. Since there is obviously a “group” of non-traditionalists here, I’m not quite sure how they would enjoy what Island Princess offers. And I have heard first hand from some who have chosen Caribbean Princess because they liked the product Princess offered on others ships and who came away from Caribbean disappointed because of the atmosphere created on board. Since its been stated many times that I am not qualified to comment on MUTS because I’ve not experienced it, I might say that one will not appreciate the differences between Island Princess and a 7-day entry level Caribbean cruise unless they experience it.

And what demographic is that??

I would assume that if one read my entire post, the demographic differences I was talking about would be clear, but I suppose to avoid confusion, I need to be blatantly explicit. Suffice to say, the content of this thread proves that there are two factions in cruising – as John Maxtone-Graham says, the “old” cruiser – that would be me the traditionalist – and the “new” cruiser. Princess so far has been marketing relatively successfully to both, however as I mention above, there have been issues. I doubt that there was any dissent over on the RCI board when it was announced that ice rinks, rock walls and surfing pools would be added to their ships. In fact, it seems that praise is a more appropriate description – it should be pretty obvious that Princess doesn’t have it so easy with its passenger base.

Do people who are so upset by new features really think Princess would just spend millions of dollars on technology without some market research?

Yes – Princess made and announced its decision to retro fit the Grand Class with MUTS before the first Caribbean Princess cruise was complete and according to them, it was based on raves by passengers. They hadn’t even gotten the first set of comment cards in yet. Following that same point, they retracted their plans to retro fit – if their marketing had been so savvy, why did they do that?

I know for myself I could care less about "Tea Time" or "Traditional Dining". I like to cruise because it offers a unique way to visit multiple new places without the other hassles of traveling. I am not anti-social but I am realistic enough to accept that many traditional cruise features were born before they advent of cellphones, internet and many other technological advances.

I’m not sure what technological advances have to do with a cruise vacation, but I live each day of my professional life attached to the internet, cell phones, inundation from media and all the other “advances” that technology has brought us. I prefer to vacation away from all that. I really don’t care if a group of passengers needs to be tethered to technology and feel that MUTS and the like bring that to them…fine. If one doesn’t like the traditional style of cruising, fine again. Just as it’s been suggested I stay on the smaller ships, I suggest those who don’t like that style of cruising stay off of them. You want your cruising fix, I want mine. It becomes an issue when one’s addiction begins to infringe on my vacation. While it is pretty safe to say that MUTS isn’t going to make it on the smaller Princess ships (poor Sea Princess being the exception, looking like she’s got a tumor) what stems from the non-traditional style of cruising offered on the larger ships might just spill over.

That’s unfortunate – I hope those marketing specialists at Princess can find a way to offset the exodus of traditional cruisers if the line goes in a non-traditional direction. Because frankly I don’t think the “new” cruiser will have the loyalty or stamina that some of us who keep sailing Princess have.

If people don't like what a cruiseline is doing, they most effective way to show their displeasure is with their wallet. It really is not Princess or any other cruiselines job to cater to a minority regardless of how many cruises they have made with that line. If they are going to realize a better profit margin by attracting more people who have a different agenda then others I don't think anyone should hold it against them.

I guess I’ll have to keep waiting for some fact that proves I’m in the minority. I keep asking but no one seems to be able to come up with anything, including the authorities on this board. It is Princess’ job to keep their ships filled and to enhance their stockholder’s dividends…that’s what their real job is. If by offering non-traditional cruising experiences they do that, then those of us who prefer something else will go elsewhere, no worry about that...none of us is trapped with Princess, least of all me. But my experience on Princess still has not moved away from that traditional experience that some here feel is not right. What Princess has to decide is whether or not they can afford to have some of their passenger base defect. I don’t think the “new” cruiser can keep the Princess fleet filled, especially since the 7-day Caribbean isn’t their only market. So by alienating part of their passenger base, they risk changing the whole cruise line.

[sandbag7]

I think they should put a rock climbing wall by the pool, and when the rock climbing ends (about 6 p.m. or so) they can use the wall to show films. I also think that they should have organzied hockey on the ice skating rinks, and for those who still don't have enough to do there's always ballerina bowling (no, not rolling ballerina balls; you dress up in a tutu and bowl while dancing to swan lake; coming soon to a mega cruise ship near you. Also, given the amount of food people consume, amateur Sumo Wrestling would appear to be in order.

As to reading, I suggest the ships employ "reading butlers" who will sit next to you and read the book of your choice (probably the DaVinci Code or something by Grisham, judging by the passengers I've actually observed reading). That way readers will be able to watch the rock climbers and thereby avoid boredom.

[Lynda90]

Yes I do, here it is:

 

http://www.cruisecommunity.com/Headlines.asp

 

You will have to create a log-in, but it's free, you're just giving them an e-mail address and I don't think it's generated any spam for me. They do send me an e-mail once a week with the latest headlines, but I don't remember if I requested that or if it's automatic.

Thanks, Beth; I just registered.

[MaryPoppinz]

My point is that you are making a conscious effort to count how many new cruisers there are on board regardless if it their first cruise or first Princess cruise. Why would you do that?

 

I didn't count. I estimated -- but,the number of passengers who were new to Princess was noticeable. I'm not really sure why you have a problem with Princess attracting new customers, nor why you are assigning *me* a problem with it that I don't have.

 

There is are a number of poster here who take every chance they can to remind everyone how Princess used to be more exclusive and now they are just trying to become a mass market cruiseline by offering non-traditional cruise options.

 

I don't know who you are referring to, but I assure you and them both that Princess was *never* exclusive.

 

I really don't have any interest in continuing the conversation, so I'll let you chat with someone else. Have a pleasant day!

[bdjam]

I don't know who you are referring to, but I assure you and them both that Princess was *never* exclusive.

Maybe not exclusive but until the mid-90s, Princess was considered a premium cruise line – what some attribute to Celebrity today. The Sun and Grand Class ships started the Princess trend to more of a mass-market line. And the advent of Caribbean Princess and its gimmicks was a direct move by Princess to compete head-to-head with RCI in the Caribbean – the Princess of the early 90s would have had to lower itself to compete with at the same level of quality as RCI. Caribbean, Crown 2 and Emerald are all ships that are built on the same platform – to compete directly with RCI and with the influx of Carnival Corporation cash, the strategy continues. The adverse affects of this business plan on the quality of the Princess experience is what troubles some of us.

[kryos]

I'm with you "eroller". Whatever happened to enjoying the sound of the waves and the scenery off the ship. If I wanted to spend my vacation watching a giant video screen, I'd stay home and go to the movies. Fortunately I can choose one of the older, smaller ships and not have to endure MUTS.

I'm not trying to argue with anybody ... because I've never experienced MUTS, but I honestly have some questions. Hopefully, someone can enlighten me.

 

Why is there so much complaining about this feature? I take it the screen is only located in one area of the outside deck. If you don't want to watch the movie or the show or whatever, you just don't sit there. Go around to the other side of the deck and enjoy the sea there. They don't play the MUTS very late into the night, do they? And, if they do, does it bother people who may be resting in their cabins?

 

Seriously, I'm looking to learn something here. It would seem that MUTS would be great for those who like that sort of thing (not me), and relatively non-intrusive for those that don't?

 

Or, am I missing something?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[sandbag7]

I doubt if you're missing anything Rita; people are worked up mostly because this is issue is a symbol of the changes that are occuring in the industry and as to Princess in particular.

I can't speak to Princess changes over the long haul because I have only been on one Princess cruise, but I noticed that in general, the ship (food in particular) was much like Carnival (which has improved over the years), and I was advised by other cruisers that they felt Princess was not as good as in years past.

Aside from that you have the new Princess Megacruisers competing with RCI. The ships tend to look more like mulit story container ships than traditional cruise vessels. Obviously some people like them and RCI.

I've been on a 77 cabin sailing ship (Wind Spirit). At night the ship is completely dark up top, and the view of the sky is awesome. This is not the case on Princess, but the addition of this movie screen certainly moves Princess further away from a traditional cruise, and to some that is troubling.

[bdjam]

I doubt if you're missing anything Rita; people are worked up mostly because this is issue is a symbol of the changes that are occuring in the industry and as to Princess in particular.

I can't speak to Princess changes over the long haul because I have only been on one Princess cruise, but I noticed that in general, the ship (food in particular) was much like Carnival (which has improved over the years), and I was advised by other cruisers that they felt Princess was not as good as in years past.

Aside from that you have the new Princess Megacruisers competing with RCI. The ships tend to look more like mulit story container ships than traditional cruise vessels. Obviously some people like them and RCI.

I've been on a 77 cabin sailing ship (Wind Spirit). At night the ship is completely dark up top, and the view of the sky is awesome. This is not the case on Princess, but the addition of this movie screen certainly moves Princess further away from a traditional cruise, and to some that is troubling.

Excellent post – thank you.

[roe2ship]

OK, Beth, now I see it. Post #58 is a great example of how posts on this board turn nasty.

 

As usual..........you love to criticise anything I have to say. NASTY?.....asking questions on a debate is now NASTY?? Or did one of my comments hit a nerve?

[roe2ship]

It depends on whether or not you read things that aren’t there into my post, I guess. I never said that was all Caribbean Princess offered so please do not try to start another argument with me based on something I didn’t say.

Who is arguing with you?

Since there is obviously a “group” of non-traditionalists here, I’m not quite sure how they would enjoy what Island Princess offers.

Again.....so if someone who likes Movies Under the Stars is considered a non-traditionalists? What about those who love personal choice dining, are they also non-traditionalist?

doubt that there was any dissent over on the RCI board when it was announced that ice rinks, rock walls and surfing pools would be added to their ships. In fact, it seems that praise is a more appropriate description – it should be pretty obvious that Princess doesn’t have it so easy with its passenger base

My guess is you hardly read the RCI boards, because there are a few like on this board who do hate the voyager class ships and are also unhappy with the new innovations they are seeing in the industry.

[cusyl]

Not sure if Princess was first with Muts? I know the Cunard Queen Mary 2 had it on the top deck from its beginning. Unfortunately it rained every night during my voyage and I didn't get to enjoy it.

[bdjam]

Again.....so if someone who likes Movies Under the Stars is considered a non-traditionalists? What about those who love personal choice dining, are they also non-traditionalist?

Anyone who embraces any thing non-traditional is slipping away from pure traditional, yes. But having some experience in cruising, I can say that in the case of Anytime Dining, traditional cruising was also accomplished with open seating dining. My Royal Odyssey cruise was like that – we had assigned seating but the dining room was available from 6:00 to 9:30. We dined with our friends at the same table with the same wait staff when we all went at the same time, we dined separately when we didn’t. Anytime Dining is a throwback to that style of traditional cruising. So to answer your question, no.

 

Royal Odyssey was a wonderful ship – 750 passengers, white-gloved embarkation, all Greek crew, SINGLE cabins and silver European service in the dining room. Then NCL sucked up Royal Cruise Line and ruined it.

My guess is you hardly read the RCI boards, because there are a few like on this board who do hate the voyager class ships and are also unhappy with the new innovations they are seeing in the industry.

You’re right – I am not compelled to read the RCI boards for any reason. My apologies if my supposition was incorrect. From the posts from RCI cruisers over here, I’d have thought myself correct. But it's good to know there are kindred souls over there.

Not sure if Princess was first with Muts? I know the Cunard Queen Mary 2 had it on the top deck from its beginning. Unfortunately it rained every night during my voyage and I didn't get to enjoy it.

I’ll fill in for Ernie, then he can tell me what I did wrong. I believe the set up on QM2 was not stationary, and didn’t play all day by the pool. It was a little different.

[eroller]

Not sure if Princess was first with Muts? I know the Cunard Queen Mary 2 had it on the top deck from its beginning. Unfortunately it rained every night during my voyage and I didn't get to enjoy it.

 

 

You are right cusyl, Princess is hardly the first to show movies on deck at night. They are the first to install a giant Times Square video display that can be seen and heard day and night. That is where the similarities end. In fact outdoor movies have been shown on ocean liners as far back as 50 years ago (or even further). The first modern cruise line to regularly show outdoor movies was guess who? Not Princess! It was Royal Caribbean! The SUN VIKING way back the 70's had a white metal screen just above the center pool. At night they would project movies. Of course Princess has taken the concept and run away with it. It's really interesting that Princess beat RCI to the punch so to speak, even though RCI had a primitive version 30 years ago.

 

Like RCI's early ships, the QM2 (and QE2) are quite different from the Princess feature. It's just a movie projector and screen in a very out of the way location. It's not a 24/7 giant video screen that is playing videos, games, cartoons, and advertisements day and night.

 

My problem with MUTS is that (on some ships) it's in the main pool area with few areas to escape it. SEA PRINCESS comes to mind. If Princess continues to install MUTS on the existing Grand Class ships .... you will be regulated to the glass covered pool if you want to escape MUTS. There is always the aft pool but the space there is limited and it can be windy. What happened to sitting by the pool, reading a book, and listening to live music? My other problem is that eventually it's going to be used as a revenue producer (in fact it has to some extent already) showing advertisements and promoting onboard services. On the CARNIVAL LIBERTY the kids (or adults) can even play interactive video games on the giant screen .... while everyone else in the area has to endure it. I don't find that a very relaxing proposition ... and on many of the ships there are just not that many other areas to go to. Deck space and chairs are already at a premium. I don't want to be forced to sit by the funnel with the loud exhaust noise just to escape MUTS.

 

I had no problem with the original conception ... Movies Under the Stars. In fact I think it's cool to sit up on deck *at night* and watch a movie. My problem is that MUTS has expanded to much more than that, playing all day long and in the case of Carnival ... used for interactive play station type games. I'll pass.

 

Ernie

[calikak]

Now that is my idea of hell, watching people play video games on a giant TV screen. I think every woman under 30 has at some point found herself at a party where she spends prolonged periods of time watching two or more guys play some video game. What an incredibly annoying way to spend an evening. If there are any video game junkies out there who play video games all night while their wives/girlfriends just hang out and watch, PLEASE stop doing that.