Different taxes/port charge fees, same cruise from 2 websites?

[ma_t_gus]

It has probably been addressed before but why are there 2 different tax/fees/port expenses for the same ship, date, category? but at the end of it all, the price is pretty much the same.

 

 

Carnival Website 4 Travelers:

$2,846.00

Taxes, Fees, and Port Expenses:

$479.80

Total: $3,325.80

 

Travel Agent Website 4 Travelers:

$2,280,00

Taxes, Fees, and Port Expenses:

$1,108.40

Total Cost:$3,388.40

[k2excursion]

I don't know why the end total would be different, but I do know why taxes/fees & the cruise fares are so different. The cruiseline does NOT include port fees in their taxes/fees section. Port fees are almost always a part of the cruise fare, especially for U.S. based cruises being marketed to U.S. customers, when it's the cruiseline. But some travel agents put the port fees into the taxes/fees. This is not very well known at all. Most people, even here on cruisecritic, think that port fees are includes in the taxes/fees when looking at the cruiseline's website, but they aren't. The cruiseline doesn't want to have too much in the way of "add-on"s.

 

It also allows them to make extra profits on solos who are having to pay 200% cruise fare. Those solos are actually paying over 200% of the actual cruise fare, because the cruiseline only has to pay 1 set of port fees, but the solo is paying for 2 (again because port fees are not a part of taxes/fees).

Edited March 13, 2015 by k2excursion

[Retired_to_Cruise]

I don't know why the end total would be different, but I do know why taxes/fees & the cruise fares are so different. The cruiseline does NOT include port fees in their taxes/fees section. Port fees are almost always a part of the cruise fare, especially for U.S. based cruises being marketed to U.S. customers, when it's the cruiseline. But some travel agents put the port fees into the taxes/fees. This is not very well known at all. Most people, even here on cruisecritic, think that port fees are includes in the taxes/fees when looking at the cruiseline's website, but they aren't. The cruiseline doesn't want to have too much in the way of "add-on"s.

 

It also allows them to make extra profits on solos who are having to pay 200% cruise fare. Those solos are actually paying over 200% of the actual cruise fare, because the cruiseline only has to pay 1 set of port fees, but the solo is paying for 2 (again because port fees are not a part of taxes/fees).

 

Every billing statement I have had from Carnival Cruise Lines has the Taxes and Port Fees as a separate entry titled as "Taxes, Fees, and Port Expenses". In the "Invoice" that prints out with your documents, there are entries for "Cruise Rate" and "Cruise Government Taxes and Fees". In both cases above, the Port Fees are part of the Taxes and Fees listing, not the Cruise Rate listing.

 

I also believe that solo cruisers probably pay the taxes on the double cruise rates because that would be appropriate. But I would bet they do not pay double the port fees. If you think I am wrong, show me an actual statement where they are double charged for port fees.

 

The difference in that section is probably the "administrative fee" that I am sure the TA charges the customer. After all, the TA has purchased a block of cabins from the cruise line at a discounted rate. Interesting that the increase in fees is just a little more that the differences in the Cruise Fares. Maybe that is the way the TA's make their money.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Retired_to_Cruise

[ma_t_gus]

That's what I was thinking. Let say a travel agent gets the room at a discount rate of $500 less. They would just add it on as "fees" to their invoice to make it comparable but cheaper than going through Carnival, NCL... Then they have enough play (give obc, incentives) and still get $300-400 profit. It's all good, they got to make money too.

[Ken076]

The Cruiselines quote fares as "CruiseFare" + "Government Fees & Taxes".

 

Travel Agents do not get commission on the entire Cruisefare and breakout the "NonCommisionable Fare" (NCF) portion separate from the Cruisefare (and often lump it with "Government Fees and Taxes"). The TA quote is generally "Commissionable Cruise Fare" + (NCF + Govt Fees & Taxes).

 

Ken

[TerReuv]

That's what I was thinking. Let say a travel agent gets the room at a discount rate of $500 less. They would just add it on as "fees" to their invoice to make it comparable but cheaper than going through Carnival, NCL... Then they have enough play (give obc, incentives) and still get $300-400 profit. It's all good, they got to make money too.

 

Sounds like if you book ES with an agent that has pricing like above then you are cutting yourself out of price drops since they show the actual cost of the cruise as less. If you booked with Carnival's fare you might get price drops. If you book with the other site, probably no price drops because of the cruise fare showing $566 less than Carnival.

 

I know some folks have said that their TA does not like to do price drops (and I know this is not true for everyone) and this would seem like a way to get around it and still have the customer pay the same.

[20somethingguy]

I'll never go with a travel agent. Sure, a good agent can give you the 'inside scoop', but it seems the TA's have conflicting interests.

 

They are trying to make as much of a commission on the sale, while also trying to make you happy.

 

With the ability to do research on cruising with sites like cruise critic and carnival's website, TA's are becoming obsolete. Even CCL's early saver price drop procedures are on the website.

 

If you call carnival and get a promise (such as a change in your reservation), get it in writing (an e-mail works), the name of the agent and time of call. It's harder for carnival to not follow through when you have proof from carnival.

 

TL;DR I won't use TA's. They are in it for the money and don't do anything you can't do yourself.

Edited March 13, 2015 by 20somethingguy

[ma_t_gus]

Sorry about the confusion with the pricing. They were quoted on different dates. I was more interested on how/why the taxes/fees/port were different. All in all, not much difference on the purchase price, just curious...

 

 

This was the test price quoted on Carnival website a few days ago. Prices have gone down a little bit.

 

Carnival Website 4 Travelers:

$2,846.00

Taxes, Fees, and Port Expenses:

$479.80

Total: $3,325.80

 

 

This was my purchase price about a month ago.

 

Travel Agent Website 4 Travelers:

$2,280,00

Taxes, Fees, and Port Expenses:

$1,108.40

Total Cost:$3,388.40

[S.S.Oceanlover]

The Cruiselines quote fares as "CruiseFare" + "Government Fees & Taxes".

 

Travel Agents do not get commission on the entire Cruisefare and breakout the "NonCommisionable Fare" (NCF) portion separate from the Cruisefare (and often lump it with "Government Fees and Taxes"). The TA quote is generally "Commissionable Cruise Fare" + (NCF + Govt Fees & Taxes).

 

Ken

 

 

Ahhhhhh the voice of reason. [emoji1]

 

Bill

[Buffettfan 225]

I don't know why the end total would be different, but I do know why taxes/fees & the cruise fares are so different. The cruiseline does NOT include port fees in their taxes/fees section. Port fees are almost always a part of the cruise fare, especially for U.S. based cruises being marketed to U.S. customers, when it's the cruiseline. But some travel agents put the port fees into the taxes/fees. This is not very well known at all. Most people, even here on cruisecritic, think that port fees are includes in the taxes/fees when looking at the cruiseline's website, but they aren't. The cruiseline doesn't want to have too much in the way of "add-on"s.

 

It also allows them to make extra profits on solos who are having to pay 200% cruise fare. Those solos are actually paying over 200% of the actual cruise fare, because the cruiseline only has to pay 1 set of port fees, but the solo is paying for 2 (again because port fees are not a part of taxes/fees).

Having sailed with a relative doing a single interior- they were only billed the stateroom rate 200% and tax. Not double port fees.

[k2excursion]

Having sailed with a relative doing a single interior- they were only billed the stateroom rate 200% and tax. Not double port fees.

 

If they are paying double cruise fare, they are paying double port fees. Port fees are built into the cruise fare, so double cruise fare means double port fees. You just don't see it. It's hidden. The cruiseline only pays 1 port fees for that person, but they collect 2 port fees, because port fees are hidden within the cruise fare. We never see the breakdown from the cruiseline. We cannot. A solo will pay 1 set of gov't taxes & fees, but they will pay 2 port fees. They just will not know it, since it's hidden.

 

I knew I would be questioned about what I said, including the more in depth one earlier. I expected it, because this is a little known fact about cruising here in the U.S. Gov't taxes & fees are listed as including things that would make you think that port fees are included. But port fees are not included. There are more taxes & fees than just port fees. Those other taxes & fees are placed in that separate category, but not port fees.

 

In the earlier example, it looks like port fees were about $680 in total for 4 people ($1108-$479). Carnival will put this $680 into the total cruise fare, causing it to be more. The TA is putting it into the total taxes/fees, since they don't get any commission on taxes/fees.

 

The cruiselines used to get criticized for the enormous amount of extra fees they had, so they started placing the larges of the fees (port fees) into the cruise fare. We just don't see it, nor do we know it.

Edited March 14, 2015 by k2excursion

[Retired_to_Cruise]

k2excursions, you have repeated the same things you said about port fees earlier, and once again, you are completely incorrect.

 

The cruise fare includes the cost to the passenger for stateroom, food, and entertainment for the cruise duration.

 

Taxes, Fees, and Port Expenses are always listed as a separate item, and include exactly what it says they include. And this is supported by what the Carnival site says is included in these categories.

 

A third category is Gratuities.

 

I did a single cruiser booking on the same cruise with 3 ports of call that I already hold a 2 person booking on , in the same category cabin, with the same cruise fare. The Cruise Fare portion of the billing record was exactly the same as for 2 people. However, the Taxes, Fees, and Port Expenses was about $138.00 less than for 2 people. $138.00 is pretty standard per person charge for 3 port stops.

[k2excursion]

k2excursions, you have repeated the same things you said about port fees earlier, and once again, you are completely incorrect.

 

The cruise fare includes the cost to the passenger for stateroom, food, and entertainment for the cruise duration.

 

Taxes, Fees, and Port Expenses are always listed as a separate item, and include exactly what it says they include. And this is supported by what the Carnival site says is included in these categories.

 

No, I am totally correct. The port fees are included within the cruise fare, not the gov't taxes. This has been heavily discussed in the past, and plenty of these discussions can very easily be found, on this site & others. Here's just one example: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1023175

 

Here's a lengthy discussion from another website: www dot cruise line fans (no spaces) dot com/additional-cruise-expenditures/52749-whats-up-port-fees.html

 

Apparently, from what I just found here, I guess I cannot entirely blame Carnival for trying to pocket a little extra money here & there. They are actually required by law to put the port fees into the cruise fare. And apparently, TAs are supposed to do this too. Especially with lower categories, port fees make up a big portion of the cruise fare. It can seem deceptive to nearly double, or more than double, the advertised price once all taxes & fees are added in. So at some point, they were required to put port fees into the cruise fare. I'm not sure why the TA that the OP found is putting port fees into the gov't taxes category. Unless the law has changed, they are not allowed to do this.

 

Now, as to what exactly port fees are & who gets that money & all that. Those are great questions, and very difficult to find out. "Port fees" can have many different meanings, & that term can be used for different things. Carnival has been fuzzy about this, as have all cruiselines.

Edited March 16, 2015 by k2excursion

[hrrsamrovk]

The TA is putting it into the total taxes/fees, since they don't get any commission on taxes/fees.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

The TA is putting it into the total taxes/fees, since they don't get any commission on taxes/fees.

 

correct. It always comes out to the identical price so it's really a moot point.

 

Bill

[firemanbobswife]

If port fees are included in the cruise fare, then why do the fees/taxes get adjusted up or down for the same cruise? Example - the taxes/fees are higher now than when I booked. I always just assumed that it was because port fees fluctuate and not because taxes increase. Not trying to argue with anyone, just really want to know.

[Ken076]

The "govt Fees & Taxes" that you see called out separately on the CruiseLine sites allows cruiselines to pass thru various (not well-defined) fees to cruisers; these fees are not totally "nailed-down" until just before or just after sailaway, and when they are, cruisers usually get a small refund of the difference (as credit to shipboard account)if they've dropped since booking. ken

Edited March 17, 2015 by Ken076

[k2excursion]

If port fees are included in the cruise fare, then why do the fees/taxes get adjusted up or down for the same cruise? Example - the taxes/fees are higher now than when I booked. I always just assumed that it was because port fees fluctuate and not because taxes increase. Not trying to argue with anyone, just really want to know.

 

That is a good question, and definitely beyond my knowledge level. There are many fees & taxes that the cruiselines have to pay per person. Some fluctuate, some don't. The gov't taxes breakdown include many different taxes & fees, and I'm guessing that some of those do fluctuate. I guess taxes could increase, especially foreign taxes, but other fees could increase too. I find it interesting that when gov't taxes/fees increase quite a bit after I book a cruise, I still end up with a small refund on my S&S account. That means that they didn't need to increase those taxes after I had booked, but they are just guessing. They want to make sure that they got it all covered.

 

In most cases, which fees are under which category (cruise fare or taxes) is not relevant, since the end total is the same. But in cases of solos & cancellations, it is a benefit for the cruiseline & the customer gets cheated out of some money. Some other cruiselines will charge solos somewhere around 160%-185%, depending on different itineraries. My guess is that the discount isn't just them being nice. I have found a few examples where that discount was almost the exact amount of the estimated port fees for that sailing, so they were charging the solo 2 cruise fares & 1 port fees, to total the 160%-185% instead of the 200% that Carnival & many others charge. It was quite fascinating when I discovered this, but I had almost forgotten about it until this thread.