Is Turkey safe for Tourist?

[robert32asp]

How about refocusing on the basic question of safety in Istanbul.

 

What we know.

 

This is maybe one of the six largest cities in the world.

 

Right now there is a significant refugee/immigrant issue with people trying to go from Syria, Iraqu, Afghanistan to the EU, many on foot or by boat.

 

There is political tension among various political groups in the Country.

 

Russia and Turkey seems to be sparing with each other militarily (fighter jet shot down, provocative naval events).

 

Recent ISIS suicide bomber who exploded himself in a larger 33 person German tour group in a well guarded tourist part of the City.

 

Yes, you can get mugged or stabbed in any major US or European city. Paris proved that you can be sitting in a restaurant minding your own business and get shot.

 

So what can folks do, who want to be as safe as possible and still go to Istanbul?

 

A guide service company owner and I were talking and they suggested some things I will pass along as ask for feedback on.

 

1--Don't be part of huge tourist groups like the German Tour Group of 33 people. Be self guided tour or smaller5-6 people max.

 

2--Don't spend a lot of time around police stations, military headquarters, major consulates, or big luxuary hotels that cater almost exclusively to politicians or foreigners.

 

3--Wear clothes that blends in or is at least conservative. That is don't wear shorts and Hawaiian shirts, carry big cameras, or wear T-shirts or B-ball caps that say "I heart NYC."

 

4--Talk to hotel concierges about any demonstrations or protests and avoid them.

 

5-- Use street smarts or situational awareness of your surroundings.

 

 

MY cruise ship canceled the stay in Istanbul and drops us off in Athens. I will some some time seeing Athens, but my still fly to Istanbul to spend time in the City unless a group of terrorists starts attacking small groups of tourists. I would appreciate others thoughts.

[Hlitner]

We really enjoyed the intelligence and wisdom or Robert's post. For some reason, many tourists just feel more comfortable and safer when they are part of a large tour group with guides (with large sounds and voices) showing them the way. They think that the being in a group makes them more immune to "issues." In most cases this could not be further from the truth. Those who have done a lot of world travel know that being along and staying "below the radar" is actually a key to safety and really learning about most places.

 

It took me years to convince DW to go to Egypt, and we finally did it on a 2 week trip by ourselves. We went all over the country (by private car, bus, and airplane) and had a fantastic time. Because we were just 2 people, we had no need for private security guards (like used on some cruise line excursions between Alexandria and Cairo) and met a lot of wonderful Egyptians. We did not eat in restaurants crowded with tourists which are nice juicy targets. We often traveled in private cars (with our own driver) and simply fit in with all the other cars...as opposed to a large tour bus that stands out like a huge neon sign. After more than forty years of extensive travel we have never understood the mindset that says "if I am in a large group of tourists.....I am safer."

 

Even the US Department of State consistently urges US travelers to avoid being in large conspicuous groups....and yet this is what "excursions" are all about! Personally, we would rather be sipping wine or beer at a local cafe watching these tour groups go by.

 

Hank

[hawkeyetlse]

Large tour groups are nice juicy targets, but it doesn't follow automatically that traveling in a small group off the radar is safe. Independent travel carries different risks (and also some of the same risks that are inherent to all kinds of travel). People should do what they want to do and what they feel comfortable with. Others can share their opinions, but you can't argue with someone's feelings.

 

People come to these threads ostensibly asking for information, and others try to oblige by providing facts and numbers. But it's a waste of time, because they are not actually asking you anything, they are telling you their feelings. People don't make decisions only based on facts and logic. You can tell them all day long what the odds of winning the Powerball are, and they will still buy a ticket because they want to and it makes them feel good. (And, ironically, that funds public education in many states.) The gamblers on cruise ships know the odds are stacked against them and they play anyway, and thank god for all of them. But for the same reason, it is useless trying to tell someone who is afraid to travel somewhere how slim the risks are. Because deep down they can't help believing that they could win that lottery, too.

Edited January 31, 2016 by hawkeyetlse

[John Bull]

Hi Ruth,

 

Glad we have consensus - in your location (didn't notice it first-time-round cos I'm none-too observant :rolleyes:) you too have the same problem of folk reading too much danger into visiting. For ourselves, we kept putting off Israel for years, waiting "for things to settle down". Then realised if we waited for that we'd never go. So a few years back we booked a cruise that visited Israel -. Haifa and two days Ashdod. Had a great time, never felt anything but comfortable & safe.

 

Hi Robert,

 

I'm no expert on the subject, but here's what I see.

 

Migrants from Afghanistan & Iraq have been heading for Europe for many years, pretty-well un-noticed except at a handful of pinch-points such as Calais (France). The huge increase, which has caused the problems in the past year, is of Syrians. Folk I consider to be war refugees, rather than economic migrants, and folk for whom I have a great deal more sympathy.

The route of those heading for Europe is from the Syrian border to Turkey's Mediterranean coast facing very close Greek islands like Kos, & nowhere near Istanbul. Around Turkey's popular resort of Bodrum, for instance. It's hereabouts that many refugees have drowned. Unlikely to be dangerous for tourists, but currently not a fun place to vacation.

 

Turkey's spats with Russia won't involve or endanger tourists.

 

Problems with factions, such as the Kurds in south-eastern of Turkey, and other factions along the Syrian border, are a long way from the tourist spots.

But yes, there's the risk of factions targeting tourists - either to hurt them or to hurt Turkey's government through its tourism industry. That materialised in the attack on the German group by a Syrian, believed to be a member of ISIS, who had crossed to Turkey in the previous few days. And because of Turkey's rather porous border with Syria, it's an easier target than other countries.

 

The advice given by the tour owner:

1. Yes, avoiding large crowds is standard advice. But even if you're in a small group it's pretty impossible to avoid mixing with other folk if you want to visit the sights and bazaars.

2. Much easier advice to follow. And for instance the US embassy has advised avoiding visiting the embassy if possible.

3.Conservative dress and not drawing attention to yourselves is about as close as most can get to that advice - if you're a tourist there's no way you're going to blend in like a local.

4. Excellent advice - though I'd expect hotel staff to do so even if un-asked

5. Yes, as anywhere else. Whilst pick-pockets aren't going to ruin your life and are less of a risk than many many cities, you're waaaaaaaaaay more likely to encounter them than terrorists.

 

Here's something you're far more likely to encounter.

As an elderly shoe-shiner is walking past you, he doesn't notice that he's dropped a brush. Being a kind person you pick it up & call him back. He's so grateful, he'll shine your shoes for free.

Oh no he won't. :rolleyes: So don't fall for it.;)

That was tried on us, we've since heard two similar stories.

Istanbul's shoe-shiners sure are a clumsy lot :D

 

Just my own thoughts

 

JB :)

[angeleyes27]

I am a person who is very scared of terrorism. When someone makes me feel inferior for being afraid, it only makes me feel more afraid, like making fun of someone who stutters makes that person stutter more. Statistics don't help. If a person gets a cancer, it didn't help them to know that their cancer was rare. When it happens to you, it is 100%, no matter what the odds. You are right that it is the feelings.

Discussing how to make people less likely targets IS helpful because then someone can become comfortable enough to go. ISIS is a brutal terrorist organization so they are something to fear, hopefully enough that people will join together to stop them.

I went to Ephesus last summer and was terrified. I used a private tour where we were the only ones on the tour who helped us avoid crowds and I felt comfortable with that.

This summer I had planned a Western Mediterranean cruise out of Barcelona to Italy and France. I felt safe and then I see that Europol has warned of terror attacks in Europe especially France and Spain. I thought at least I am on the ship. Then I saw NATO warned about ISIS possibility of attacking cruise ships. So then I started panicking. Now the things I thought of to keep safe are some of the things you mention. I will book some small group tours in Italy to not stand out and stay away from big cities like going to Cinque Terre not Florence, Orvieto not Rome, Amalfi coast not Naples. I thought in Cannes, that I would go to Monaco and Eze which I think Monaco is heavily guarded and Eze may not be a place terrorists would look to go. In Barcelona I thought I might take a private tour right from the airport to Monseratt and some city sights to see them from the outside and take some pictures. I thought also of going out to Sagria Familia and Las Ramblas like at 7am to see it when it is not crowded so not as big a draw as later in the day. I thought of taking a taxi from the cruise port to the airport so to not use public transport. I thought I would stay at a European hotel. In Marsielle, I thought of taking a ships tour to one of the hilltop villages and stay away from the cities. I would love to see Avignon Palace of the Popes but I am afraid. I wanted to see a Flamenco show in Spain, but I don't know if that could be a target like the Batacan. I will stay away from outdoor cafes. Am I am the right track? Do those things sound like I am trying to stay out of the terrorist radar? Do you think at Barcelona that it is unlikely that someone would put a bomb in the plane?

The places that I went in Turkey seemed to be guarded like Ephesus and Blessed Mary House. St John Basilica had only a group of about 10 other people.

I also was told that if you go in any enclosed places, keep track of where the exits are. If you can hide somewhere, try to be behind a concrete wall. Turn off your cell phone. If you can see the terrorist, he can see you.

[Pet Nit Noy]

I am a person who is very scared of terrorism. When someone makes me feel inferior for being afraid, it only makes me feel more afraid, like making fun of someone who stutters makes that person stutter more. Statistics don't help. If a person gets a cancer, it didn't help them to know that their cancer was rare. When it happens to you, it is 100%, no matter what the odds. You are right that it is the feelings.

Discussing how to make people less likely targets IS helpful because then someone can become comfortable enough to go. ISIS is a brutal terrorist organization so they are something to fear, hopefully enough that people will join together to stop them.

I went to Ephesus last summer and was terrified. I used a private tour where we were the only ones on the tour who helped us avoid crowds and I felt comfortable with that.

This summer I had planned a Western Mediterranean cruise out of Barcelona to Italy and France. I felt safe and then I see that Europol has warned of terror attacks in Europe especially France and Spain. I thought at least I am on the ship. Then I saw NATO warned about ISIS possibility of attacking cruise ships. So then I started panicking. Now the things I thought of to keep safe are some of the things you mention. I will book some small group tours in Italy to not stand out and stay away from big cities like going to Cinque Terre not Florence, Orvieto not Rome, Amalfi coast not Naples. I thought in Cannes, that I would go to Monaco and Eze which I think Monaco is heavily guarded and Eze may not be a place terrorists would look to go. In Barcelona I thought I might take a private tour right from the airport to Monseratt and some city sights to see them from the outside and take some pictures. I thought also of going out to Sagria Familia and Las Ramblas like at 7am to see it when it is not crowded so not as big a draw as later in the day. I thought of taking a taxi from the cruise port to the airport so to not use public transport. I thought I would stay at a European hotel. In Marsielle, I thought of taking a ships tour to one of the hilltop villages and stay away from the cities. I would love to see Avignon Palace of the Popes but I am afraid. I wanted to see a Flamenco show in Spain, but I don't know if that could be a target like the Batacan. I will stay away from outdoor cafes. Am I am the right track? Do those things sound like I am trying to stay out of the terrorist radar? Do you think at Barcelona that it is unlikely that someone would put a bomb in the plane?

The places that I went in Turkey seemed to be guarded like Ephesus and Blessed Mary House. St John Basilica had only a group of about 10 other people.

I also was told that if you go in any enclosed places, keep track of where the exits are. If you can hide somewhere, try to be behind a concrete wall. Turn off your cell phone. If you can see the terrorist, he can see you.

 

When we post, we typically don't reveal our age.I'm 70. Frankly, this has an impact on how I feel about terrorism. I have raised my family and our only child is married with children of his own. I have a current will that reflects my values and priorities for my life now. (The days when my will appointed a guardian for my minor child are far in my rear view mirror!) I haven't seen every place on my bucket list, but I've made a major dent. My point of view about foreign travel will not be the same as someone in his/her 30s/40s who are still raising children.

 

Right now, the thought of not being able to see my grands grow up is bringing tears to my eyes as I type this message, but I'm at a place in my life where it will be sad if I die from terrorism but it will not be a tragedy.

 

We should not be judging people whose life story we do not know!!

[angeleyes27]

I can tell you why terrorism is scarier than other things to many. Gun violence in the US is mainly inner cities so tourists can stay out of those areas. You have some control in auto accidents. But a terrorist attack is totally out of your control and scary.

[LondonTowner]

Well, I think that all those people who suffer from terrorism paranoia should stay at home.

 

It is not going to stop me travelling and enjoying my life. I lived in London during the era of the IRA bombings and can honestly say never ever gave it a second thought. I still live in central London and never have to think will I be safe?

 

I know anywhere in London is a high alert area, so going elsewhere isn't going to stop me going.

[cruisemom42]

I can tell you why terrorism is scarier than other things to many. Gun violence in the US is mainly inner cities so tourists can stay out of those areas. You have some control in auto accidents. But a terrorist attack is totally out of your control and scary.

 

Everyone is different. I am one who is reassured by facts and logic.

 

After 9/11 I developed a pretty severe fear of flying. Unfortunately I had to fly for work -- and as a new single mom I had no option to NOT work. So.... I was gradually able to overcome my irrational fears by knowledge and understanding of the risks.

 

If I seem to emphasize these points, that's why. It really did work for me and it reassures me immensely knowing how small the odds are that my plane will crash or that terrorists will impact my travels. I'm not trying to bully or belittle anyone -- I sincerely believe that it helps.

 

(By the way, as someone who was "blindsided" when another car plowed through a red light to smash into me, I can assure you that you have very little control in a car accident....:o)

[angeleyes27]

Londontowner, I guess you are a real pro at this and very experienced at living in volatile environments. I however live in the woods in a small town near a beach with wild turkey, deer and chickens where the crime rate is 75% lower than anywhere else in the US. I only go into the cities about 2-3 times a year for less than 2 hours so my exposure to this stuff is limited. Truth be told, I am out of my comfort zone. When ISIS pledges to turn Spain red and conduct Mombai style attacks in Europe and I know they are the most brutal terror group in history, I feel scared. I made it through the Eastern Mediterranean last year. I would like to make it through the Western Mediterranean this year if I could. Then I am going to Poland in July. After that I am going to stay on my side of the bond in National parks or secluded areas except to go to maybe Iceland or Northern Norway near the Arctic circle. That may be limiting to many but having to wonder if someone will blow me up with their suicide belt is not a vacation to me. I am just asking for suggestions for those who are more experienced with this to minimize being a target. I don't care if it means to miss out on certain places as there is nothing more important than my life.

[angeleyes27]

I meant my side of the pond.

[angeleyes27]

Yes, cruise mom, I understand that different things work for different people and I agree totally with your point in car accidents. I appreciate you trying to help. I am not offended by those who give me statistics. My only point is that I am not comforted by that, but others may. I am just trying to find a way to make this trip secure enough so I can go and not be frightened. I always went to Europe before ISIS and was not afraid but this is a new era and I am totally out of my element being just a beach bum and someone who has lived their life in woods with deer and wild turkeys

[angeleyes27]

I guess I am not comforted by statistics because I was a victim of a violent crime and one of my daughters was born with a severe birth defect and died both of which was statistically low but it still happened. My sister was almost killed in the twin towers and had cancer at a young age. My cousin was disabled in a terrorist attack. So when it happens to you, it is different. I too was a single Mom for many years and basically raised my children by myself after escaping an abusive marriage so I have more than my share of battle scars.

[angeleyes27]

Pit Nit Noy, I am about 25 years younger than you. I have tears in my eyes at the thought of not being able to see my grandchildren, if I ever have any or see my children get married. I would love to see these places if I could somehow minimize the risk but there is no place that is more important than my family. I know that nothing is guaranteed but it is possible to do things that are less risky than others.

[angeleyes27]

My college age children still live with me so I am still in that phase of my life, but finally able to travel. My husband had cancer but is remission right now so that is my perspective

[John Bull]

Londontowner, I guess you are a real pro at this and very experienced at living in volatile environments. ............................................................................ When ISIS pledges to turn Spain red and conduct Mombai style attacks in Europe and I know they are the most brutal terror group in history, .

 

The whole point is that Londontowner doesn't live in a "volatile environment".

Yes, perhaps more risk there than in my village or yours, but sharing that small risk with eight and a half million others. And Londontowner is far far more likely to be mown down by a drunk driver than involved in a terrorist attack, and with no more control over that than over any act of terrorism.

If you're not particularly afraid of traffic, you certainly shouldn't be afraid of terrorism.

 

"Turning Spain red" is complete and utter twaddle. Even the civil war of the 1930's didn't come close to doing that.

OK, logic and statistics don't help overcome what I think you accept as being an irrationally excessive fear, but even if there were an attack tomorrow the chances of folk who are in Spain tomorrow being involved in any way are many many millions to one.

 

Yes, ISIS is certainly one of the most brutal terror groups in modern times - I don't understand how anyone other than psychopaths could support them, even if they held similar extreme religious views. And of course the vast vast majority of Muslims don't support them.

But there have been groups, for instance Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, just as brutal in modern times and on a much much bigger scale - they just didn't involve folk in the west.

And certainly there's been worse in history. Like Genghis Khan. But no tourists in those days ;)

 

Finally, harking back to an earlier post of mine.

It does grieve me that on Cruise Critic there's so much over-blown nonsense about perceived risks in Europe & Asia, yet no threads about atrocities in the US.

But to be perfectly honest your contributions don't grieve me because I think you've accepted that your fears are out of all proportion, as folk reading this thread can see.

So reading your posts I don't feel grieved. But I do feel so very very sad for you, because you are allowing your fears to ruin your enjoyment of overseas travel - and even visits to US cities.:(

 

JB :)

Edited February 3, 2016 by John Bull

[angeleyes27]

If and when ISIS is out of the picture, then maybe I can return to "normal" but until then I am limited. My sister will not get on a plane since 9-11 so I am less limited than her. I think Europe is safer than the Caribbean but this ISIS thing is what the problem is especially after Paris. I think the mass shooters in the US are terrorists too. I am not sure about threads about US threats although I could understand their fears. I think most crime is inner city slums and most Americans know to stay out of them. We are a large country so we are more isolated and used to our country. It is not like Europe where there are so many cultures

[4774Papa]

As usual, there have been some thoughtful and interesting posts on this subject.

 

Having lived in Saudi Arabia for five years, Germany for four and traveled to 70 countries, I will not stop traveling overseas because of terrorism.

 

Terrorism has been around for a long time. Terrorism is what started WWI. Around that time, anarchist were blowing people up.

 

During my lifetime, we endured the Palestinian terrorists, with bombings and airplane hijackings as well as Marxists terrorists like the Red Brigades, largely sponsored by the East German Stasi and Soviet KGB. I took my family on a Nile cruise a few months after the Achile Lauro hijacking in 1985, figuring the risk would be low.

 

I have long had an interest in Middle East history and believe that the current situation in the Middle East will not likely improve for some time. We are faced with radical Sunni terrorist like ISIS, al Qaeda, HAMAs and others as well as radical Shia led by Hezbollah and Iran.

 

The future probably involves a square off between Iran and Saudi Arabia with both likely to obtain nuclear weapons.

 

How does all this affect my travel plans? I won't be visiting Syria, Iraq or such places.

 

Also, I believe places like Alaska, Iceland, East Asia and Hawaii will be very safe places.

China is very safe, its authoritarian government has a grip on that country that reduces such threats.

 

South America, Australia and NZ are relatively safe as well. However, Brazil has is problems and of course Venezuela is almost a failed state.

 

Central America has some of the highest crime rates in the World, depending on the country.

 

I won't be going to the Mexican border with the USA since the drug cartels still dominate there.

 

As far as Europe is concerned, we have a trip to Portugal this May and I am not the least bit worried.

 

Further, we have plans for a drive tour of England and Wales that should be rather worry free as long as we stay away from the M25.

 

There are always some concerns with major cities in the World that could be targets for terrorist, such as London, Paris, Rome, NYC, but as said already, there is a far more likely chance of being hit by a drunk driver than a terrorist bomb.

[chefestelle]

On another note, there are some cultural aspects people might find a bit unsettling that do not seem to change with time. I went to visit my family in Turkey (where they were living) in 1985. I was with my sister. We were older teens. Mom met us in Istanbul and took us to all the sights. Two remarkable things happened there that have never happened to me in Canada. The first was when a bit of dust blew under my contact causing me to tear up considerably. A young man passing by gave a rose to my mother to give to her sad daughter. It was such a sweet gesture! That same day at the grand bazaar, mom was offered gold and camels for her daughters...

Later, in Mersin, an older man grabbed my sister's butt as she waited at a crossing. She was actually well covered for a Canadian and our clothing didn't really stand out there. A Turkish man beside him lit into him furiously. Now, that can happen anywhere and should produce the same result!

Recently, I was speaking to my doctor who is a beautiful blond woman. She described how much she was harassed constantly in Istanbul. Being well travelled, she was not given to exposing large amounts of flesh. This was 2003. She did not feel unsafe, so much as harassed. However, a friend of hers just came off a cruise and said they never ran into any of these discomforts on their excursions.

Last year, my neighbour took her children to Turkey. Her daughter is a young blond teen. My neighbour was offered a camel for her - in the grand bazaar. Some things change, some stay the same!

Such things would never stop us travelling and can happen anywhere. - well, maybe not the camel part. It's all about comfort level and awareness. We will see how I feel when it is my DD!

[cruisemom42]

Last year, my neighbour took her children to Turkey. Her daughter is a young blond teen. My neighbour was offered a camel for her - in the grand bazaar. Some things change, some stay the same!

Such things would never stop us travelling and can happen anywhere. - well, maybe not the camel part.

 

The camel thing is a bit of a joke, in reality! The merchants know that tourists find it funny and a good story to tell "back home". (This told to me by a proprietor in the Grand Bazaar when we were drinking some apple tea and haggling over the price of some antique items. ;))

[chefestelle]

The camel thing is a bit of a joke, in reality! The merchants know that tourists find it funny and a good story to tell "back home". (This told to me by a proprietor in the Grand Bazaar when we were drinking some apple tea and haggling over the price of some antique items. ;))

 

 

It IS the only place we ever heard of it happening and we found it quite funny. I do know of one other resident Cdn who was offended when it happened to her (she was the daughter) and my neighbour was more startled than amused. My favourite is still the rose story.

[chefestelle]

And don't you just love haggling while sipping tea!

[LondonTowner]

Years ago I worked in Israel and my sister came on holiday. We were in the Souk in Jerusalem and one of the vendors said my sister was worth so many camels. Yes, it is a touristy thing.

 

I have had my bottom pinched on the bus in Rome and years ago in Spain young men would say 'piropos' to good looking women in the street, which are cheeky comments, but not rude.

 

A few years ago my OH and self had a holiday in Luxor. Every time he left me alone I was being chatted up by an Egyptian.

 

Years ago when people started to travel to different countries many Latin men were fascinated by Western women. As long as it is done in good fun and no mal intent I think it is quite nice and flattering.

 

Unfortunately, these days there have been reports of lone women being seriously harassed in some countries. That is totally unacceptable .

[4774Papa]

Years ago I worked in Israel and my sister came on holiday. We were in the Souk in Jerusalem and one of the vendors said my sister was worth so many camels. Yes, it is a touristy thing.

 

I have had my bottom pinched on the bus in Rome and years ago in Spain young men would say 'piropos' to good looking women in the street, which are cheeky comments, but not rude.

 

A few years ago my OH and self had a holiday in Luxor. Every time he left me alone I was being chatted up by an Egyptian.

 

Years ago when people started to travel to different countries many Latin men were fascinated by Western women. As long as it is done in good fun and no mal intent I think it is quite nice and flattering.

 

Unfortunately, these days there have been reports of lone women being seriously harassed in some countries. That is totally unacceptable .

 

I lived in Saudi Arabia for five years from 81 until 85. I was offered a million dollars for my blonde daughter more than once. I agree that part of this was a touristy thing. However, there was some realism here. I am sure that I could have made a deal if I really wanted to do so.

 

Patti has a book called "The Arab Mind" it is a wonderful explanation of that culture, which is very different from Western culture. Women have a very different status in that culture. Quite frankly, there is much about that culture that is centuries behind our modern culture.

[cruisemom42]

I lived in Saudi Arabia for five years from 81 until 85. I was offered a million dollars for my blonde daughter more than once. I agree that part of this was a touristy thing. However, there was some realism here. I am sure that I could have made a deal if I really wanted to do so.

 

Patti has a book called "The Arab Mind" it is a wonderful explanation of that culture, which is very different from Western culture. Women have a very different status in that culture. Quite frankly, there is much about that culture that is centuries behind our modern culture.

 

But to return to the topic of this thread, Turks are not Arabs. And I suspect very few of the vendors at the Grand Bazaar would have any idea where to obtain a real camel. :D