Insurance and Final Payment

[BosoxI]

My wife asked this same question hre several weeks ago, but some how her post and any possible answers have disappeared. Let me try again:

 

Simply, does the insurance have to be purchased before final payment or can I wait closer to embarkation? If there is an increase in cost, that is not of great concern.

 

My TA requires final payment weeks in advance of what the cruise line requires. For insurance purposes, what is FINAL PAYMENT DATE ?

Edited September 20, 2015 by BosoxI

[notjaded]

My wife asked this same question hre several weeks ago, but some how her post and any possible answers have disappeared. Let me try again:

 

Simply, does the insurance have to be purchased before final payment or can I wait closer to embarkation? If there is an increase in cost, that is not of great concern.

 

My TA requires final payment weeks in advance of what the cruise line requires. For insurance purposes, what is FINAL PAYMENT DATE ?

 

You really should not rely on what forum posters say about this topic. Instead, you should ask the insurer you have chosen about their purchase policy. And the answer will differ depending on whether you purchase a policy that covers preexisting conditions.

[Keith1010]

If you book insurance on your own in almost all cases you can get it after final payment.

 

However, in just about all cases (there is at least one exception) you cannot get insurance for a pre-existing condition unless you would have bought it within a specified time (usually tow to three weeks) after making deposit but the cruise lines insurance would cover it if you pay for it at final payment.

 

If you are doing it on your own, look at some policies now and contact the insurance companies.

 

Keith

[BosoxI]

No preexisting conditions, I'm just trying to delay the inevitable payment as long as possible.

[GeezerCouple]

If you book insurance on your own in almost all cases you can get it after final payment.

 

However, in just about all cases (there is at least one exception) you cannot get insurance for a pre-existing condition unless you would have bought it within a specified time (usually tow to three weeks) after making deposit but the cruise lines insurance would cover it if you pay for it at final payment.

 

If you are doing it on your own, look at some policies now and contact the insurance companies.

 

Keith

 

Correct: There is one major insurance company that offers coverage without the exclusion for pre-existing conditions if one purchases the insurance when one makes final payment of the largest cost part of the trip.

 

There is some fine print to avoid some obvious abuses of this type of procedure.

 

We'd suggest contacting an insurance broker (we use TripInsuranceStore.com) to ask about this particular policy.

 

(This type of coverage also allows CFAR, but it is *very* expensive if done this way.)

 

We use this type when we really aren't quite sure we'll make the trip, but we use insurance with the "within 21 days of initial deposit" for trips that are pretty definite.

And we then use insurance where we only need to insure the initial deposit amount (usually a very small percentage of the ultimate total trip) and bump up the coverage - and premium - only as we make additional non-refundable payments.

 

GeezerCouple

[Babr]

Final payment date is defined by the cruise line, usually 90 days from sailing. Your travel agent is collecting it early to ensure timely processing. You are entitled to your money back less any fees from the travel agent up until the final payment date imposed by the cruise line.

 

Most people buy insurance at final payment because that marks the beginning of the penalty period if you have to cancel. The exception is people who have pre-existing conditions or those who want cancel-for-any reason. That coverage must be purchased shortly after the initial deposit.

 

It sounds like you are past that point. Now the question is financial risk from cancellation. If that is not a concern for you and you are willing to accept the loss should you have to cancel, then you can wait. I don't know about cost, but it may even be less because the insurance company is exposed to risk for a shorter period of time. If you are not concerned about cancellation at all or the risks associated with travel delay, look at medical/evacuation only.

 

Just be aware of the look-back period, ranging from 60-180 days maybe more depending on the policy. Insurance companies look back at your medical history. That means if you are treated or even have a prescription change for something that causes you to cancel later, your claim likely will be denied.

 

Yeah, I know -it is tricky. A couple of places have already been mentioned. Call and talk to someone. This just gives you an idea of what to ask.

[GeezerCouple]

Final payment date is defined by the cruise line, usually 90 days from sailing. Your travel agent is collecting it early to ensure timely processing. You are entitled to your money back less any fees from the travel agent up until the final payment date imposed by the cruise line.

 

Most people buy insurance at final payment because that marks the beginning of the penalty period if you have to cancel. The exception is people who have pre-existing conditions or those who want cancel-for-any reason. That coverage must be purchased shortly after the initial deposit.It sounds like you are past that point. Now the question is financial risk from cancellation. If that is not a concern for you and you are willing to accept the loss should you have to cancel, then you can wait. I don't know about cost, but it may even be less because the insurance company is exposed to risk for a shorter period of time. If you are not concerned about cancellation at all or the risks associated with travel delay, look at medical/evacuation only.

 

Just be aware of the look-back period, ranging from 60-180 days maybe more depending on the policy. Insurance companies look back at your medical history. That means if you are treated or even have a prescription change for something that causes you to cancel later, your claim likely will be denied.

 

Yeah, I know -it is tricky. A couple of places have already been mentioned. Call and talk to someone. This just gives you an idea of what to ask.

[emphasis added]

 

Please don't make blanket statements as though *all* policies have certain requirements.

There are MANY different choices of policies/coverage benefits, with various options and costs.

 

There absolutely IS at least one major insurance company (and perhaps others) that *does* sell coverage without the pre-existing condition exclusion and with CFAR, that can be purchased at final payment of the most expensive part of the trip.

[Again, there is some fine print, so speak directly with an insurance broker to make sure any particular policy suits YOUR particular needs.]

 

However, as mentioned above, the CFAR is almost prohibitively expensive at that late time (although it's probably less necessary for most people, given it's within weeks, not many months or a year or more in advance, so one's plans may be much better known).

 

But importantly, the "waiver of the exclusion for pre-existing condition" coverage isn't much different from the insurance that must be purchased months or years in advance.

And this is for what is often the critical feature of travel insurance, coverage for potentially catastrophic medical costs.

 

GeezerCouple

[Babr]

Yes, you are correct. CSA does sell a policy that covers pre-existing conditions at final payment. You had already explained that in your previous post. I did not elaborate because I thought the point had been made. It was not my intention to contradict or mislead. Sometime it is hard to craft the perfectly-worded answer to a question about such a complex subject, but I hope I did not leave the impression that all policies are alike.

[GeezerCouple]

Yes, you are correct. CSA does sell a policy that covers pre-existing conditions at final payment. You had already explained that in your previous post. I did not elaborate because I thought the point had been made. It was not my intention to contradict or mislead. Sometime it is hard to craft the perfectly-worded answer to a question about such a complex subject, but I hope I did not leave the impression that all policies are alike.

 

Thanks, and I didn't mean to call you out the way it now appears.

 

It's just that there are lots of folks who are not familiar with "how" travel insurance "works" - and we were among them not too many years ago.

And it took a huge amount of time and effort (and lots of time and effort on Steve and his group, too, to give credit where due) for us to start to figure out what would be best for what kind of trip, etc.

 

It's just that too often, people write (here or on other CC sub-forums, too) about how it "must be purchased within 14 days" (when there is very similar for purchase within 21 days, and then there's the CSA-type coverage which can *first* be started a year or two after initial deposit, etc.), or other specifics.

 

And unfortunately, there are others who get upset when some answers are along the lines of "check with the insurer or insurance broker"... because there are SO many different types of coverage, different types of needs/desires regarding coverage, and then also restrictions on which states or countries allow which types of coverage or insurance companies - whew!

 

And many don't know there are choices beyond what the cruise company sells, and whether that would be better or worse for their own particular needs.

 

It's not easy to know the actual choices.

 

GeezerCouple

[cherylandtk]

For insurance purposes, what is FINAL PAYMENT DATE ?

It is the date the Cruiseline imposes for final payment (and usually after which there are cancellation penalty amounts). It is not the TA date nor is it the actual date you choose to make final payment.

 

If PEC is not an issue for you then most policies allow purchase after final payment date. (But do be aware of how the effective date and lookback period float until you actually purchase coverage).

[Babr]

It is the date the Cruiseline imposes for final payment (and usually after which there are cancellation penalty amounts). It is not the TA date nor is it the actual date you choose to make final payment.

 

 

 

If PEC is not an issue for you then most policies allow purchase after final payment date. (But do be aware of how the effective date and lookback period float until you actually purchase coverage).

 

 

 

Final payment date is defined by the cruise line, usually 90 days from sailing. Your travel agent is collecting it early to ensure timely processing. You are entitled to your money back less any fees from the travel agent up until the final payment date imposed by the cruise line.

 

Most people buy insurance at final payment because that marks the beginning of the penalty period if you have to cancel. The exception is people who have pre-existing conditions or those who want cancel-for-any reason. That coverage must be purchased shortly after the initial deposit.

 

It sounds like you are past that point. Now the question is financial risk from cancellation. If that is not a concern for you and you are willing to accept the loss should you have to cancel, then you can wait. I don't know about cost, but it may even be less because the insurance company is exposed to risk for a shorter period of time. If you are not concerned about cancellation at all or the risks associated with travel delay, look at medical/evacuation only.

 

Just be aware of the look-back period, ranging from 60-180 days maybe more depending on the policy. Insurance companies look back at your medical history. That means if you are treated or even have a prescription change for something that causes you to cancel later, your claim likely will be denied.

 

Yeah, I know -it is tricky. A couple of places have already been mentioned. Call and talk to someone. This just gives you an idea of what to ask.

 

 

I thought that was what I was saying. Are we in agreement?

[cruiseco]

It is the date the Cruiseline imposes for final payment (and usually after which there are cancellation penalty amounts). It is not the TA date nor is it the actual date you choose to make final payment.

 

Actually, for every insurer I'm aware of the final payment date is the date YOU make the final payment.

 

In case of a relevant claim the insurer will ask for a couple of things:

 

1) The cruise line's penalty structure which will establish what, if any, penalties were in effect as of the date the final payment was made.

 

2) The date You made the final payment. This date is established in one of two ways depending on how the payment was made:

 

If paid by check, it's the date the check was written -- not the date the agent or cruise line received it or deposited it. They will ask for a copy of this check.

 

If paid by credit card it will be the date the payment is posted. to your credit card statement. They will ask for a copy of this statement.

 

So, if you use a plan such as CSA and make the final payment on your cruise a week later than the scheduled final payment date per the cruise line you're still OK to get the pre-existing condition coverage. They'll compare the date the check was written or the credit card was charged against the date the policy was purchased and if they're within 24 hours of each other you're good. They don't care the date the final payment was SUPPOSED to be made. They only care about when it was ACTUALLY made.

[cherylandtk]

Interesting...and I value your expertise in this area...but I have been entering the final payment due date on the claim forms without issue. Neither claim form specified the date of actual payment, although proof of payment was required and they could see the date from the invoice. They did require the cancellation/penalty policy, and the date (final payment due date) said policy went into effect. Policies were issued by Global Alert and TravelSafe.

 

I do see how in your example a 'late' payment would still be covered by the CSA policy. In my cases final payment was made very early, well before any penalties kicked in and the actual payment date is irrelevant to the penalty date or the policy effectiveness date.

Edited September 22, 2015 by cherylandtk

[Babr]

Insurers that provide coverage for pre-existing conditions at final payment require payment in close proximity to paying for the cruise in full. I get that part.

 

The thing that is throwing me off is the late payment. If the cruise line doesn't get its money when it is supposed to, your booking is subject to cancellation by the cruise line, is it not?

 

Are you saying that if the cruise line agrees to accept your payment after its imposed final payment date, you could still get CSA coverage for pre-existing conditions by paying for everything in one fell swoop?

[GeezerCouple]

Insurers that provide coverage for pre-existing conditions at final payment require payment in close proximity to paying for the cruise in full. I get that part.

 

The thing that is throwing me off is the late payment. If the cruise line doesn't get its money when it is supposed to, your booking is subject to cancellation by the cruise line, is it not?

 

Are you saying that if the cruise line agrees to accept your payment after its imposed final payment date, you could still get CSA coverage for pre-existing conditions by paying for everything in one fell swoop?

 

Some people first make reservations after the "final payment date", assuming there are suitable cabins or suites available, and then it would be full payment.

(They may not have made up their mind until then, known what their schedule was, or hoped for a special last minute low rate, etc.)

 

What will matter for the CSA-type insurance is the DATE that full payment was made, whether it is before or after any written regular deadlines, and that you pay for the insurance in the necessary time frame.

 

GeezerCouple

[Babr]

I got the impression from cruiseco's last paragraph that he was talking about a cruise booked in the conventional way with an initial deposit some months ahead of final payment required by the cruise line. That is the part not clear to me. A final payment is supposed to be paid on its scheduled due date. If you actually pay it later, it sounds like a late payment to me.

 

But - It can't be due if you haven't booked it before that date.

 

A cruise booked after final payment requires full payment at the time of booking. There is no deposit or final payment - just one. In that case, you qualify for pre-existing conditions or cancel for any reason if you buy the insurance in the correct time frame. Indeed, the cruise line's final payment date has no relevance in that situation.

[GeezerCouple]

I got the impression from cruiseco's last paragraph that he was talking about a cruise booked in the conventional way with an initial deposit some months ahead of final payment required by the cruise line. That is the part not clear to me. A final payment is supposed to be paid on its scheduled due date. If you actually pay it later, it sounds like a late payment to me.

 

But - It can't be due if you haven't booked it before that date.

 

A cruise booked after final payment requires full payment at the time of booking. There is no deposit or final payment - just one. In that case, you qualify for pre-existing conditions or cancel for any reason if you buy the insurance in the correct time frame. Indeed, the cruise line's final payment date has no relevance in that situation.

 

That's the point, at least as far as we know (but one should *always* read the terms of the specific policy one is getting).

The cruise line (or airline or hotel) "schedule of payments" isn't what the insurer is likely to care about.

 

In case of a claim (we'd done this), they'll want receipts (copies of credit card statements in our case) demonstrating when travel payments were made, when the insurance payments were made [others have commented on the oddity of this, given that the insurer received the payments], and receipts for any extra costs incurred.

 

And the insurance payments must each be made per the requirements of the policy, typically no later than a certain number of days of designated travel payment events.

 

Also, there is nothing "unconventional" about making travel reservations on relatively short notice. Different people have different scheduling needs/desires for a variety of reasons, or just plan things differently.

 

GeezerCouple

[MaxGlycine]

cruiseco wrote:

Actually, for every insurer I'm aware of the final payment date is the date YOU make the final payment.

 

I enquired with Nationwide about my Cruise insurance this afternoon, and was told specifically that the "final payment date" for the purpose of Preexisting waiver is the date of my LARGEST payment, be it cruise-fare or related airfare, and that if my cruise deposit was $400, with the balance of $350 due later, that the final payment date is the date I made the $400 deposit. This is the second time Nationwide has told me this, and I have heard a similar definition from others. Bizarrely this means that for them, at least, I would need to buy my insurance the SAME DAY I place my deposit on the cruise, in order to receive waiver of pre-existing conditions.

 

"Your mileage may vary."

Edited October 7, 2015 by MaxGlycine