Oyster Card ?

[mattR]

If you run out of money on your Oyster Card while on the tube do you simply add more onto the card so that you can exit the station?

Edited April 7, 2016 by mattR

[mamkmm2]

My understanding ... and correct the heck out of me if I'm wrong ... is that you only use your card on entry, not on exit. If you don't have enough on the card to enter then you can add it at a kiosk or something similar, then you enter.

 

ETA: aha, now I know what you mean. I'd be interested in this as well.

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-your-oyster-card

Edited April 7, 2016 by mamkmm2

[mattR]

My understanding ... and correct the heck out of me if I'm wrong ... is that you only use your card on entry, not on exit. If you don't have enough on the card to enter then you can add it at a kiosk or something similar, then you enter.

 

ETA: aha, now I know what you mean. I'd be interested in this as well.

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-your-oyster-card

 

Thanks for the link hadn't seen that video before so yes it sounds like you would just add more money to the card to exit if your balance has run out.

[newport dave]

My understanding ... and correct the heck out of me if I'm wrong ... is that you only use your card on entry, not on exit. If you don't have enough on the card to enter then you can add it at a kiosk or something similar, then you enter.

 

ETA: aha, now I know what you mean. I'd be interested in this as well.

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-your-oyster-card

You use your oyster card to enter and exit from the tube. There are different prices depending what zones you travel through. The system needs to know where you enter and where you leave the tube system to calculate your fare.

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[mattR]

Another question regarding the tube. Are there express trains or do the trains stop at every stop? If there are express trains how do you identify the train and where they stop? I was surprised to see how long it takes to get from Heathrow to Westminister until I looked at how many stops there are:)

[insanemagnet]

With Oyster when you touch in at the start of the journey it takes a maximum fare you could spend whatever journey you could make, and then when you touch out at the end it works out what the real cost of the journey was, and credits the card back with the difference. Therefore if you don't touch out, you end up paying the maximum fare.

 

Most stations have barriers so you can't get in or out without touching your card, but there are stations in the outer zones with no barriers just Oyster machines to touch your card on.

 

On lines like the Piccadilly line there are no express trains, every train stops at every stop.

 

There are some lines which go to the outer suburban areas of London that do go nonstop for part of the journey, but these are clearly indicated on the display board. If in doubt ask, there is usually a member of staff on the platform and not all Londoners bite.

[Cotswold Eagle]

I can only think of the Metropolitan line north of Wembley Park where there are stopping and non-stopping services. The majority of the network is just two track (up/down) and often in different tunnels, so any express would simply get held up behind stopping services.

 

There are two stretches I can think of where different lines share the route but one doesn't stop at all stations - obviously these are four tracked. The tube map makes this very obvious as each line is shown with its own stations.

 

Baker Street-Wembley Park - Jubilee stopping, Metropolitan non-stopping, except for Finchley Road

Acton Town-Barons Court - Piccadilly fewer stops, District all stops.

 

Just think how long the journey from Heathrow would be if the Piccadilly also called at those intermediate stops :)

Edited April 7, 2016 by Cotswold Eagle

[Globaliser]

Thanks for the link hadn't seen that video before so yes it sounds like you would just add more money to the card to exit if your balance has run out.

With Oyster when you touch in at the start of the journey it takes a maximum fare you could spend whatever journey you could make, and then when you touch out at the end it works out what the real cost of the journey was, and credits the card back with the difference. Therefore if you don't touch out, you end up paying the maximum fare.

If it's not already clear from insanemagnet's reply, it follow that if you're already on the Tube, you can't run out of money on your Oyster card during the journey and so you should always be able to exit. (In any event, there are no payment machines inside the barriers, so you would have exit to get to a payment machine anyway.) But you may then have to top up before you next enter the Tube system or use any other form of transport paid for by Oyster.

 

It used to be the case that you could enter and exit even if this would leave a (small) negative balance on the card. However, I think the current rules don't allow this on the Tube any more as the facility is limited to one more bus trip (and I'm not in a position to test it because I use auto top-up and so the balance on my card never gets close to zero). Nevertheless, even when that was the case, IIRC TfL couldn't lose out because it would always be holding the cash deposit for issuing the card (which is now £5).

[Globaliser]

Just think how long the journey from Heathrow would be if the Piccadilly also called at those intermediate stops :)

In all seriousness, not that much, actually.

 

The Piccadilly Line normallly skips four stops between Hammersmith and Acton Town: Ravenscourt Park, Stamford Brook, Turnham Green and Chiswick Park. In the early mornings and late evenings, the Piccadilly Line also calls at Turnham Green. I've often taken the Piccadilly Line in from Heathrow when it does this, and it adds no noticeable time to the overall journey.

 

So if the Piccadilly Line were to do this routinely, I reckon it would only add 5 minutes or so to the end-to-end journey time other than at peak times - and peak times are, of course, when an express / local train system works best by dividing the traffic between trains.

[Mairnealach]

With Oyster when you touch in at the start of the journey it takes a maximum fare you could spend whatever journey you could make, and then when you touch out at the end it works out what the real cost of the journey was, and credits the card back with the difference.

 

Therefore when touching in at the start of a journey, there must be enough credit on the Oyster card to cover the maximum fare that the traveller could possibly pay rather than the actual cost of the journey that the traveller is going to take. Correct?

[turnip eater]

I don't know much about Oyster cards, although my husband has one.:D

I know that you've been very helpful to other posters with queries about Dublin, so I thought I'd try to help a little.......:p

 

This is the Oyster site, if you have some time to spare, perhaps you can peruse it.:)

https://oyster.tfl.gov.uk/oyster/entry.do

 

Perhaps you can use your contactless card;)

[insanemagnet]

Therefore when touching in at the start of a journey, there must be enough credit on the Oyster card to cover the maximum fare that the traveller could possibly pay rather than the actual cost of the journey that the traveller is going to take. Correct?

Yes.

 

For example, you know you will only be traveling in one zone so need to pay X, but the system doesn't so takes the maximum it could charge you Z, and then 'gives you back' Z less X at the end.

 

In the past if you printed a statement you could actually see this happening, but it confused a lot of people, so the new simpler statements just show the journey charge.

 

The system is smart enough that if you caught a train from A to B and then changed onto a tube at B to go to C, then provided you have not left it too long between the train exit barriers at B and the tube entry barriers also at B, it treats it as one journey.

 

Contactless debit and credit cards work differently to Oyster. When you touch in and out all that happens is the system makes a note of your card details and when and where it saw them. At this point nothing is charged to the card.

 

Overnight the system looks at all the information and then charges you a single amount for all the journeys, although the statement will show the individual journey charges.

[Mairnealach]

Thank you turnip eater and insanemagnet, I have learnt something about the operation of the Oyster card that never struck me before. I am strictly a once a year visitor to London and consequently never top up my Oyster card by a large amount.

 

I was returning home on Monday after a wonderful weekend in London and my last journey on the underground was from Euston to Tottenham Hale. I knew I had enough credit to cover the journey, but never thought if I had enough to cover the maximum journey fare. In fact I had, but not by much. In future, I will top up my Oyster card by a larger amount on arrival at Tottenham Hale to avoid the possibility of having to join the permanently enormous queues at the ticket machines in Euston on departure.

 

I now realise that the way the pricing works can be clearly seen by logging into your Oyster card account, going to journey history and clicking on the '+Show all charging detail'/ '-Hide all charging detail' box.

 

Dermot

[mattR]

Therefore when touching in at the start of a journey, there must be enough credit on the Oyster card to cover the maximum fare that the traveller could possibly pay rather than the actual cost of the journey that the traveller is going to take. Correct?

 

Thats not good for me as I only plan on using the card for two days. Day one Heathrow to zone one plus one or two zone one fares, and the second day only in zone one for one or two fares. How much should I add? I think the most I would use would be 18 pounds but my last fare that will only cost me 2.40 I have to have a balance of 6 pounds so wasting 3.6 pounds. Is 6 pounds the max fare single fare? I could use my tap credit card but I am from Canada and I hear the scanners do not like Canadian tap cards? Also I am traveling with my son (18) so I would have to bring a second tap credit card correct?

Edited April 7, 2016 by mattR

[Globaliser]

I'm going to try to remember to give this a test with one of my spare Oysters. The minimum fare, which is automatically deducted as you enter the Tube, is either £5.30 or £7.70 depending on whether it's peak or off-peak. But I've found a spare Oyster with only £5.00 credit on it.

[SteveH2508]

Therefore when touching in at the start of a journey, there must be enough credit on the Oyster card to cover the maximum fare that the traveller could possibly pay rather than the actual cost of the journey that the traveller is going to take. Correct?

 

Provided you have enough credit to cover the minimum fare from that station, you can enter the system. When you touch out wherever, it will deduct the correct fare. This may leave you with a negative balance. You will not be able to re-enter the system until you top up your Oyster card (assuming we are talking about PAYG and ignoring any daily capping amounts).

 

 

For example, if I am in a rush in the morning, my journey to work from Zone 1 to Zone 5 costs £4.70. Provided I have at least £2.40 on my card, I can travel. I will then have a negative balance, so I will need to top up before going home.

Edited April 7, 2016 by SteveH2508

[SteveH2508]

I can only think of the Metropolitan line north of Wembley Park where there are stopping and non-stopping services. The majority of the network is just two track (up/down) and often in different tunnels, so any express would simply get held up behind stopping services.

 

There are two stretches I can think of where different lines share the route but one doesn't stop at all stations - obviously these are four tracked. The tube map makes this very obvious as each line is shown with its own stations.

 

Baker Street-Wembley Park - Jubilee stopping, Metropolitan non-stopping, except for Finchley Road

Acton Town-Barons Court - Piccadilly fewer stops, District all stops.

 

Just think how long the journey from Heathrow would be if the Piccadilly also called at those intermediate stops :)

 

A few Met line services do Finchley Road to Harrow on the Hill in one go as 'fast'. They then usually run straight through to Moor Park.

 

There are also 'semi-fast' services which run straight through from Wembley Park to Harrow on the Hill.

 

They do say fast or semi-fast on the front of the new trains now.

[insanemagnet]

I am strictly a once a year visitor to London

 

 

So don't bother with Oyster, use contactless, it's the same price.

[Mairnealach]

So don't bother with Oyster, use contactless, it's the same price.

 

Not for me it ain't :D I am in the fortunate position of being entitled to a privilege rate on the Tube which is registered to my Oyster card.

 

But even if I were paying the standard fare, my bank charges a fee on all credit card transactions in foreign currencies which, as a resident of Euroland, sterling is for me.

 

Dermot

[Mairnealach]

Many thanks Steve, that's exactly what I wanted to know. (The quote option wouldn't work for your message)

[mattR]

I'm going to try to remember to give this a test with one of my spare Oysters. The minimum fare, which is automatically deducted as you enter the Tube, is either £5.30 or £7.70 depending on whether it's peak or off-peak. But I've found a spare Oyster with only £5.00 credit on it.

 

That would be great thanks!

[Globaliser]

In the meantime, the excellent and reliable Oyster and National Rail blog has confirmation from earlier this year (scroll down to the most recent comments) that the rule remains that to be allowed to enter the Tube system, the Oyster card must have enough credit for the minimum fare from that station, not the maximum fare, and that this means that you can still have a negative balance when you exit the system if your actual journey costs more than the credit you had on the card when you started.

 

On reflection, I think that the difference between this and the "one more journey" feature on buses is that you can enter a bus even if your card has less credit on it than the minimum to travel on the bus (which is actually a flat fare).

[Globaliser]

Test number one completed.

 

£5.00 credit on card.

 

Entered Zone 1 Tube station during a peak time. Maximum fare £7.70, minimum fare from that station £2.40, fare for the actual journey £2.90.

 

No problems with touching in or touching out. Because Oyster online services are down at the moment, I can't positively confirm what was deducted, but it should have been a £7.70 deduction, to take the card to -£2.70, and then a refund of £4.80 to bring the card back to £2.10.

 

Test number two next week, when I will try to complete a journey that leaves a relatively large negative balance on the card on touch-out.

[mamkmm2]

Globaliser, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to do this. Much appreciated by those of us unfamiliar with the system.

[Globaliser]

Globaliser, thank you for taking the time out of your busy schedule to do this. Much appreciated by those of us unfamiliar with the system.

You're welcome!

 

Though I have to say that most Londoners wouldn't have a clue about what goes on at the level that we're discussing here. They'd stick some money on the card, and if they try to enter a station and get a red light and a rejection, they go to the ticket machine and add some money. Nobody here cares that the machine deducts the maximum fare when you enter the system or that you only need to have the minimum fare on the card when you enter.

 

That said, the TfL website confirms the numbers in my previous post. I'll see whether I can do test number two sometime during the next week.