Why in and out of the pools every 10 minutes?

[jrljel]

One of my clients came back yesterday from the Dream and said that they were in the main pool for about 10 minutes, then they would ask everyone to leave for 10 minutes and this went on for the entire afternoon. Anyone know why or anything about that? I was at a loss, as the last time I was onboard, there were no lifeguards so I don't know. Help! Thanks!

[Shmoo here]

One of my clients came back yesterday from the Dream and said that they were in the main pool for about 10 minutes, then they would ask everyone to leave for 10 minutes and this went on for the entire afternoon. Anyone know why or anything about that? I was at a loss, as the last time I was onboard, there were no lifeguards so I don't know. Help! Thanks!

 

Disney has had lifeguards onboard for a while now (maybe a couple of years?) I've never been on a Disney ship that did the 10 minutes in 10 minutes out thing.

 

Possibly they were having pool (mechanical) issues.

 

I know at some public pools they make everyone under (some random age) get out periodically, so that adults can enjoy the pool without kids in there.

 

Maybe there were people that were just a bit out of control in the pool area, and this was their way of keeping things from getting too rowdy.

[transitary]

Maybe she's speaking in hyperbole and it wasn't every ten, but perhaps every hour and felt constant?

 

We are child free so we don't have to deal with frequent cleanings in the pool we use, but if I had to guess, I'd say it was for frequent cleanings and every ten was an exaggeration.

 

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[Loonbeam]

There are some sensors that track, 'contamination' as it were down in the engine control room (no idea how sensitive they are), so if there were multiple incidents, people can be removed from the pool until things balance out...

 

There are other things (chemical imbalance, etc) that can cause similar issues, although every 10 mins is a bit much.

[tinybiny]

My local YMCA does this in the outdoor children's pool. It's a ten minute break every hour. I've heard several reasons for it. I have no idea which one is correct. They want all children to have a break out of the water; the lifeguards need a break from watching the pool; the pool stays cleaner when they kick everyone out for a while; it's a health department requirement...

[Hidden Minnie]

As crowded as the pools are, it also allows the lifeguards to have the occasional clear view to the bottom of the pool

[sammiedawg]

We recently sailed Fantasy and I've never seen more crowded pools. Kids were shoulder to shoulder. I'm not well versed in Disney but wondered why such tiny pools are on a ship catering to families. The noise level was appalling, not because of the kids. The movie audio blasted at a decibel level like I've never heard on a ship. The pool deck turned me off. I felt sorry for the pool attendants and lifeguards.

On our cruise the pool had hourly ten minute rest periods and the pool was closed off and on to be drained.

[Loonbeam]

As noted, its primarily a check to make sure nothing untoward is happening, plus give the lifeguards a few mins to change focus. That wouldn't be 10 in 10 out tho...

 

My local YMCA does this in the outdoor children's pool. It's a ten minute break every hour. I've heard several reasons for it. I have no idea which one is correct. They want all children to have a break out of the water; the lifeguards need a break from watching the pool; the pool stays cleaner when they kick everyone out for a while; it's a health department requirement...

[moki'smommy]

When I worked as a lifeguard (about a million years ago) we cleared the pool for 10 minutes each hour. That was our break time and it provided a time for mothers to suggest that their children visit the restrooms.

 

I've never seen anything on any DCL ship of "10 minutes in and 10 minutes out." That sounds like someone was exaggerating a bit.

 

When cleaning is needed at a DCL pool for a "biological," the pool will close for hours--it is fully drained, cleaned, and refilled. Obviously, this most often occurs in the Mickey/toddler pool and would happen much less frequently if parents would follow the rules (children must be potty trained to use the pools).

 

Unless chemical sensors are malfunctioning, there is no reason that they would be triggering every 10 minutes. And even then, there is no way that a lifeguard would know they were triggering.

 

My best guess is that there was a break period about once an hour....

[chengkp75]

There are some sensors that track, 'contamination' as it were down in the engine control room (no idea how sensitive they are), so if there were multiple incidents, people can be removed from the pool until things balance out...

 

There are other things (chemical imbalance, etc) that can cause similar issues, although every 10 mins is a bit much.

 

Ah, no. There are no "sensors" that track "contamination". There are not even any real good, real time, tests for fecal contamination. Most water tests for fecal coliform bacteria require heating in an autoclave for 18-24 hours.

 

There are, however, sensors that monitor the Ph and chlorine level in the pool water, continuously, and that dose the chemicals as needed continuously. Since the sensors are in the water flow from the filters, they are constantly adjusting the dosage based on the bather load, and there would not be any "trigger" that the pool chemistry was suddenly out of balance. Additionally, the water must be tested by hand every 4 hours, again for Ph and chlorine.

 

This "everyone out of the pool" is so the lifeguards can get an unobstructed view of the pool bottom. There have been many cases, both on ships and on shore, where people drowned and the pool was full of people around who noticed nothing.

[moki'smommy]

Ah, no. There are no "sensors" that track "contamination". There are not even any real good, real time, tests for fecal contamination. Most water tests for fecal coliform bacteria require heating in an autoclave for 18-24 hours.

 

There are, however, sensors that monitor the Ph and chlorine level in the pool water, continuously, and that dose the chemicals as needed continuously. Since the sensors are in the water flow from the filters, they are constantly adjusting the dosage based on the bather load, and there would not be any "trigger" that the pool chemistry was suddenly out of balance. Additionally, the water must be tested by hand every 4 hours, again for Ph and chlorine.

 

This "everyone out of the pool" is so the lifeguards can get an unobstructed view of the pool bottom. There have been many cases, both on ships and on shore, where people drowned and the pool was full of people around who noticed nothing.

 

Totally agree...but every 10 minutes still makes no sense. Yes, I'm aware that there are people who have been rescued after 20 minutes with no oxygen and survived intact, but there are far more "found" after 10 minutes who were seriously impaired or died. And finding a person after 10 minutes does not mean that blood flow to the brain was restored in that amount of time.

 

One nice thing about DCL lifeguards--there are enough of them that they can rotate breaks while the pools are open and can also rotate assignments, reducing staff fatigue.

[Steelers0854]

There have been many cases, both on ships and on shore, where people drowned and the pool was full of people around who noticed nothing.

 

 

Maybe this is being done in response to the near drowning on the Anthem of the Seas? The timing certainly suggests that. My prayers go out to that little boy and his family.

[Loonbeam]

Odd, because a chief engineer on a different line told us the sensors could detect it, or at least they were detecting something else. To be fair, I assumed contamination meant accidents but could also be something else as well, never asked.

 

There was a very clearly marked PHAlert icon on the system, so perhaps instead of contamination per se they were having issues with something reporting out of safe range that wasn't autocorrecting fast enough?

 

Just had a thought, without checking the dates, did this happen before or after the incident on Anthem?

 

I think the pool check makes the most sense, but every 10 minutes would be a bit extreme for that, unless something else was in play.

 

 

Ah, no. There are no "sensors" that track "contamination". There are not even any real good, real time, tests for fecal contamination. Most water tests for fecal coliform bacteria require heating in an autoclave for 18-24 hours.

 

There are, however, sensors that monitor the Ph and chlorine level in the pool water, continuously, and that dose the chemicals as needed continuously. Since the sensors are in the water flow from the filters, they are constantly adjusting the dosage based on the bather load, and there would not be any "trigger" that the pool chemistry was suddenly out of balance. Additionally, the water must be tested by hand every 4 hours, again for Ph and chlorine.

 

This "everyone out of the pool" is so the lifeguards can get an unobstructed view of the pool bottom. There have been many cases, both on ships and on shore, where people drowned and the pool was full of people around who noticed nothing.

[moki'smommy]

Every automatic system I've seen had pH and chlorine monitoring with automatic adjustments as to how much was being infused into the water with the filtering process. The back up was manual checking (by lifeguard) at certain specified times.

 

Yes, pH indirectly measures urine in the pool, but is also influenced by sunscreen, beverages that might have spilled, perspiration, etc.

 

However, every pool evacuation I've ever been a part of had to do with safety, guard breaks, and rest periods, not a pH problem. Automatic systems just don't get that far "out of whack," and if they did, the pool would be shut down rather than a 10 minute break Of course, the other reason was fecal matter in the pool which would generate an immediate evacuation and closing...again for hours, not minutes.

Edited July 3, 2016 by moki'smommy

[chengkp75]

Odd, because a chief engineer on a different line told us the sensors could detect it, or at least they were detecting something else. To be fair, I assumed contamination meant accidents but could also be something else as well, never asked.

 

There was a very clearly marked PHAlert icon on the system, so perhaps instead of contamination per se they were having issues with something reporting out of safe range that wasn't autocorrecting fast enough?

 

Just had a thought, without checking the dates, did this happen before or after the incident on Anthem?

 

I think the pool check makes the most sense, but every 10 minutes would be a bit extreme for that, unless something else was in play.

 

Well, he was fibbing. :o A Ph alert would be correct, in that acid is constantly injected into the pool water. The liquid chlorine used in commercial pools (sodium hypochlorite) works best when in a very small range of Ph (7.2 to 7.6) and since the fluid in your eyes is at a Ph of 7.4, that means this Ph is better for your eyes and for the chlorine to do its job. Normally, salts from sweat will make the water more and more "basic" or alkaline over time, so the acid is needed to counteract the "bather load", which will vary with how many bodies are in the pool. Now, unless their Ph monitoring system was out of whack, or you had a whole bunch of drunks in the pool (you know what I mean), the Ph usually doesn't get too out of hand, and even then isn't truly critical, as the chlorine will work at higher Ph levels, but will require a longer contact time.

[MexicoMark]

They did this when I was on the Dream in April. I don't know if it was every 10 minutes because I wasn't timing it but, it was frequent and difinitely much much sooner than a hour. Just as we would start to relax we would have to get out.

[Loonbeam]

Apparently some pools also have particulate sensors as well as part of the system, not so much for fecal matter as glass, etc which can get sucked into the bottom drain (or human hair), basically tells if the trap is full. No idea if Disney has these or the other ship in question.

 

Well, he was fibbing. :o A Ph alert would be correct, in that acid is constantly injected into the pool water. The liquid chlorine used in commercial pools (sodium hypochlorite) works best when in a very small range of Ph (7.2 to 7.6) and since the fluid in your eyes is at a Ph of 7.4, that means this Ph is better for your eyes and for the chlorine to do its job. Normally, salts from sweat will make the water more and more "basic" or alkaline over time, so the acid is needed to counteract the "bather load", which will vary with how many bodies are in the pool. Now, unless their Ph monitoring system was out of whack, or you had a whole bunch of drunks in the pool (you know what I mean), the Ph usually doesn't get too out of hand, and even then isn't truly critical, as the chlorine will work at higher Ph levels, but will require a longer contact time.

[jrljel]

They did this when I was on the Dream in April. I don't know if it was every 10 minutes because I wasn't timing it but, it was frequent and difinitely much much sooner than a hour. Just as we would start to relax we would have to get out.

 

Very interesting! I love all of your views! I really have no idea of the real reason, and perhaps it wasn't every ten minutes, but I bet it was a lot more than I would ever think.

 

Also, I concur with the person who said the pools are WAAAAAY too small for the amount of people onboard. That seems to be the case with any cruise line. I still have yet to see one with enough pool space for everyone on a sea day (and that includes Oasis and Allure). Thanks! Keep the ideas coming!

[chengkp75]

Apparently some pools also have particulate sensors as well as part of the system, not so much for fecal matter as glass, etc which can get sucked into the bottom drain (or human hair), basically tells if the trap is full. No idea if Disney has these or the other ship in question.

 

Well, yes, the pool filters will have a clogging indication. Actually, the "drain" or inlet to the pump has to be designed as an "anti-entrapment" grating, such that the flow velocity is so low that you can't get sucked to it and held down, so most solids won't move to the drains but very slowly.

[Host Mick]

Very interesting! I love all of your views! I really have no idea of the real reason, and perhaps it wasn't every ten minutes, but I bet it was a lot more than I would ever think.

 

Also, I concur with the person who said the pools are WAAAAAY too small for the amount of people onboard. That seems to be the case with any cruise line. I still have yet to see one with enough pool space for everyone on a sea day (and that includes Oasis and Allure). Thanks! Keep the ideas coming!

 

Pools are very heavy and very high up and they slosh so they have a very negative effect on the ship's stability. The lines can build bigger pools but they would have to give up a lot of weight elsewhere to make it happen. What would you give up for bigger pools?

[Ex techie]

Pools are very heavy and very high up and they slosh so they have a very negative effect on the ship's stability. The lines can build bigger pools but they would have to give up a lot of weight elsewhere to make it happen. What would you give up for bigger pools?

 

Removing the equivalent weight or "a lot of weight" of larger pools from elsewhere off the ship would not counter the dynamic weight shifting of increased volumes of mass (water) moving around, port to starboard, fore to aft and heaving up and down.

 

ex techie

[Loonbeam]

I was wondering about that. That's a US standard isn't it, so it doesn;t necessarily apply (although it certainly would make sense).

 

Well, yes, the pool filters will have a clogging indication. Actually, the "drain" or inlet to the pump has to be designed as an "anti-entrapment" grating, such that the flow velocity is so low that you can't get sucked to it and held down, so most solids won't move to the drains but very slowly.

[Loonbeam]

Talked about this with some of the crew on Anthem of the Seas, which suffers from a similar lack of space, and they say its not so much a matter of weight, but balance. The more water you put higher up, the more ballast (and I am not sure I am using the right term) you need lower down to compensate for the inertia of moving fluid. It's why some lines are starting to move some pools lower down (Carnival Vista for example) to both reduce the inertia possibly (not sure on this point) help stabilize)

 

Also, I think you will see more places like Spice H20 on Norwegian, where they have a water feature as opposed to a pure pool. Splash zones, instead of kid pools, can help with this as well.

 

 

Pools are very heavy and very high up and they slosh so they have a very negative effect on the ship's stability. The lines can build bigger pools but they would have to give up a lot of weight elsewhere to make it happen. What would you give up for bigger pools?

[AdoraBelle]

Well, yes, the pool filters will have a clogging indication. Actually, the "drain" or inlet to the pump has to be designed as an "anti-entrapment" grating, such that the flow velocity is so low that you can't get sucked to it and held down, so most solids won't move to the drains but very slowly.

 

 

Unrelated, hope you don't mind me hijacking your expertise for a question. On another thread someone is asking about bringing a Brita pitcher on board (due to the latest NCL feature clawback--no more beverages of any kind brought on board). It made me curious if Brita type filters accomplish anything with ship drinking water that's already been processed.

[chengkp75]

The real problem with larger pools is not weight. It is a phenomenon known as "free surface effect", which is caused by the water in the pool, being a liquid, being able to change shape to conform to the container it is in, regardless of the orientation of that container. Think of a glass of water. When you tip it to one side, the water level on that side goes up, and goes down on the other side. This moves the center of gravity of the water ever so slightly (it is after all, only a glass of water), but when you multiply this by a hundred tons, it becomes a very noticeable effect, and the higher in the ship it is experienced, the worse the effect becomes.

 

Ship stability depends on knowing where the center of buoyancy of the ship is, and where the center of gravity of the ship is. The relationship between these two points in space determines whether a ship returns to upright when rolled to one side, or whether it continues to roll over. If the center of gravity is allowed to move to a significant degree, the stability of the ship is negatively impacted.

 

The heeling and eventual capsizing of the Costa Concordia was caused by free surface effect. This was caused by free flowing water in the engine room, low down in the ship. Had the weight of water in the engine rooms been solid, the ship would have sunk on the rock off Giglio as it did, but it would have done so upright. Now imagine a much smaller weight of water, but placed much higher in the ship, and you have an idea why cruise ship pools are kept small, and they have multiple pools.