Confused about Visas for China

[zlato]

Wife and I have booked the 29 day cruise from and around Japan to Vancouver in 2018. The itinerary includes an overnight stay in Shanghai (two days) and includes the statement "requires visa" Unfortunately, our current China visas expires the month before the trip. I have spoken with an two HA representatives and asked if we needed visas if we did not leave the ship since new visas would cost us over $800. We have been in Shanghai at least 3 times and questioned the value of paying over $800 for a two day visit (I realize that these visas would allow multiple entries and are valid for 10 years.) The following are the responses from the two different HA reps:

 

1. Since there would be no other stops in China, a visa would not be required.
   
2. If we choose HA approved tours, an umbrella visa would be issued by HA and separate visas would not be necessary.
   
3. It is recommended that individual visas be obtained in case if potential problems.
   

Neither agent could explain the printed visa requirement on the printed HA documents, and neither could send me anything in print stating that individual visas would not be required if we book Shanghai tours through HA. I would appreciate any insights as relates to the contradictory responses. It should also be noted that I also read that we could not board the ship without visas. HELP!

[TBcruisers]

Wife and I have booked the 29 day cruise from and around Japan to Vancouver in 2018. The itinerary includes an overnight stay in Shanghai (two days) and includes the statement "requires visa" *** The following are the responses from the two different HA reps:

 

1. Since there would be no other stops in China, a visa would not be required.
   
2. If we choose HA approved tours, an umbrella visa would be issued by HA and separate visas would not be necessary.
   
3. It is recommended that individual visas be obtained in case if potential problems.
   

Neither agent could explain the printed visa requirement on the printed HA documents, and neither could send me anything in print stating that individual visas would not be required if we book Shanghai tours through HA. I would appreciate any insights as relates to the contradictory responses. It should also be noted that I also read that we could not board the ship without visas. HELP!

 

Thanks for posting this. Hope you will post this on our roll call thread as we will also be sailing the 29-day Japan...N. Pacific Crossing. I'm very curious to learn the answer to your inquiry. I know your #2 response received was how we traveled in Russia (there it was on an approved private tour sanctioned by the Russian government) so there was no need to obtain individual visas. But, as you say, the HAL documentation advises that we can't board without the proper visas. "HELP" is right! We need to know how to proceed, even if it will be financially painful.

 

Thanks again,

Bob

[OlsSalt]

Wife and I have booked the 29 day cruise from and around Japan to Vancouver in 2018. The itinerary includes an overnight stay in Shanghai (two days) and includes the statement "requires visa" Unfortunately, our current China visas expires the month before the trip. I have spoken with an two HA representatives and asked if we needed visas if we did not leave the ship since new visas would cost us over $800. We have been in Shanghai at least 3 times and questioned the value of paying over $800 for a two day visit (I realize that these visas would allow multiple entries and are valid for 10 years.) The following are the responses from the two different HA reps:

 

1. Since there would be no other stops in China, a visa would not be required.
   
2. If we choose HA approved tours, an umbrella visa would be issued by HA and separate visas would not be necessary.
   
3. It is recommended that individual visas be obtained in case if potential problems.
   

Neither agent could explain the printed visa requirement on the printed HA documents, and neither could send me anything in print stating that individual visas would not be required if we book Shanghai tours through HA. I would appreciate any insights as relates to the contradictory responses. It should also be noted that I also read that we could not board the ship without visas. HELP!

 

Are you a US citizen? $800 for two visas is a sticker shock. Did you access the China embassy visa webpage. I thought they were offering some 72 hour transit visas now, that may also include cruise ships. I see only $140 for a 10 year multiple entry visa each and a lot cheaper if you are not a US citizen.

 

Since Shanghai is one of my own favorite cities, just to eat again in Shanghai would be worth the price of the visas for us. Hope it works out for you.

[USN59-79]

I will admit, China visas can be confusing. I assume you are from US, as you didn't specify. First, I am not sure how you could pay $800. for two visas. We got ours last year and the cost, for ten year visas was about $320 for both. Individual visa cost was $140 and we paid a $20. fee each for a Chinese Travel Agent in Seattle to take care of it for us. I printed out the form from the Chinese Embassy, filled it in and included two passport photos, and delivered it to a Travel Agency in Seattle's International District, aka Chinatown. There companies that will handle it for you online, and if you live near a Chinese Embassy, you can do it yourself and save the handling fee.

The confusing part comes when you find out that China allows tourists to enter certain airports and seaports without a visa if they stay for a short time, like 2 or 3 days. Shanghai is one of the seaports, but the cruise lines are reluctant to let you us this exception mainly because the rules and conditions could change at any time and they could be penalized if they had passengers that didn't comply with the latest rules.

As far as going on a HAL excursion without a visa, I have never heard of this in either China or India, but it is a rule in St Petersburg, Russia. Hope this helps.

[OlsSalt]

Here is a link to another online discussion about this topic - are cruise passengers exempt - nothing to confirm this on the China visa webpage, but it looks like the answers are all over the place to your question: https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g308272-i2804-k8467184-Visa_requirement_for_cruise_passenger_in_port_for_16_hours-Shanghai.html

[zlato]

Yes, we are U.S. citizens. Unfortunately, we do not live in the proximity of a Chinese embassy or consulate. Thus, if a visa is necessary, I am leaning towards a visa service such as Travisa, etc. The approximate costs are

----$140 (paid to China)

----$149 (Travisa)

----$12.99 (processing charge)

----5.7 (credit card processing charge by U.S. government)

----New passport pictures, etc.

 

And I still do have a definitive answer; however, thanks for all of your responses! And I agree that there are some great dining opportunities in Shanghai. I wish that HA would be willing to send me a printed policy statement in response to my questions as stated in my initial blog. Why do the documents state visa required when HA represents say otherwise?

[bennybear]

I would contact the visa and documents department of Holland America as they did put things in writing for us. My understanding is that there are visa waivers for Shanghai if you are on a government approved tour, which HAL qualifies for. But each case is different as some people may be on multiple back tobacks. This rule just changed in October so still not clear how it will be implemented. I found even Shanghai agencies weren't sure. There are several types of exemptions but they have very specific rules. Even our Chinese consulate was unsure. So do get it all in writing!

[Bostonjetset]

Yes, we are U.S. citizens. Unfortunately, we do not live in the proximity of a Chinese embassy or consulate. Thus, if a visa is necessary, I am leaning towards a visa service such as Travisa, etc. The approximate costs are

----$140 (paid to China)

----$149 (Travisa)

----$12.99 (processing charge)

----5.7 (credit card processing charge by U.S. government)

----New passport pictures, etc.

 

And I still do have a definitive answer; however, thanks for all of your responses! And I agree that there are some great dining opportunities in Shanghai. I wish that HA would be willing to send me a printed policy statement in response to my questions as stated in my initial blog. Why do the documents state visa required when HA represents say otherwise?

 

I don't know where you live but both times I went to China [when the visas were only good for 1 year :-( ] , we just used a travel agent in Chinatown here in Boston who took care of everything for us. We paid an additional $30 over the cost of the visa but it was worth it to not have to drive to NYC ourselves. $149 is ridiculous; unless you live in the middle of nowhere you should be able to find a cheaper agent to get your visas. AAA offers passport photos for free if you are a member. And as for the credit card issue, why not just pay via check and avoid that extra fee?

 

As far as why HAL states visa required, only HAL can answer definitively but I would guess it is due to the fact that they are required if you plan to leave the ship on your own. HAL states the same thing for trips that call at Russian ports even though there are exceptions when taking a tour. I've only been to China on land trips, never on a cruise, so I'm just taking a guess here but that is what makes the most sense to me.

[USN59-79]

Yes, we are U.S. citizens. Unfortunately, we do not live in the proximity of a Chinese embassy or consulate. Thus, if a visa is necessary, I am leaning towards a visa service such as Travisa, etc. The approximate costs are

----$140 (paid to China)

----$149 (Travisa)

----$12.99 (processing charge)

----5.7 (credit card processing charge by U.S. government)

----New passport pictures, etc.

 

And I still do have a definitive answer; however, thanks for all of your responses! And I agree that there are some great dining opportunities in Shanghai. I wish that HA would be willing to send me a printed policy statement in response to my questions as stated in my initial blog. Why do the documents state visa required when HA represents say otherwise?

Please let us know why you are willing to pay those fees. And what do you mean by 5.7 credit card processing charge by U.S. government? Are you looking for sympathy?

[HELENPSL]

Just returned from a HAL cruise in SE Asia which included China. We were told that HAL would not let you on the ship if you didn't have the visa for China. We used the company www.passportsandvisas.com and had our 10 year visas back in 2 weeks. You cannot fill out the application by hand so they email you the paperwork and you fill it in online. The cost was $145 for the visa and $89 for the processing fee. They were very clear in the email regarding the documentation needed for the visa. They also handled our visa for Vietnam.

 

Don't know anything about not needing a visa if you're going on a HAL tour...sorry!

 

Helen

[Roz]

Discussions like this make me not want to visit countries that require visas. :confused:

 

Roz

[Tampa Girl]

The HAL website for booked guests give a detailed description of what visas are required for each country and for each nationality. Mainland China requires a visa prior to sailing, but Sanya, China, U.S. citizens (and 25 other nationalities are allowed to enter visa free if participating on a Holland America Line Shore Excursions." If you have not already checked this site, it might resolve your questions.

[zlato]

I sincerely appreciate all your responses. Today I was advised to speak with the tour desk. The tour desk declined to answer my questions and referred me to the documentation department who referred me back to the tour desk. After two hours on the telephone, I was verbally assured that if one books tours of Shanghai through HA, no visas are required. I was told that I would receive a printed policy statement in the near future from an HA supervisor confirming this policy. With all that said (including different opinions) and the ever changing world conditions, I will bite the bullet and pay all the fees to a travel agent to obtain two (wife and I) ten year multiple entry visas. I love Chinese food, anyway! Thanks again for your responses

[OlsSalt]

I sincerely appreciate all your responses. Today I was advised to speak with the tour desk. The tour desk declined to answer my questions and referred me to the documentation department who referred me back to the tour desk. After two hours on the telephone, I was verbally assured that if one books tours of Shanghai through HA, no visas are required. I was told that I would receive a printed policy statement in the near future from an HA supervisor confirming this policy. With all that said (including different opinions) and the ever changing world conditions, I will bite the bullet and pay all the fees to a travel agent to obtain two (wife and I) ten year multiple entry visas. I love Chinese food, anyway! Thanks again for your responses

 

Here is what we did after obtaining our last hard fought China visa, which at that time was only good for a year, which was due to run out in Feb - not a great time to be visiting China for any "multiple entry". But I had always wanted to go to the Harbin Ice Festival up in the frozen Manchurian peninsula, so to get the most out our China visa, we did quick WestCoast trip via South Korea to very cold Harbin in Feb and had one of the most fabulous trips ever. http://www.nbcnews.com/slideshow/hot-colors-light-frozen-sculptures-harbin-ice-festival-n703931

 

Yes, it was cold and got dark early but it was so festive and colorful and a once in a life time treat, plus extremely cheap - (hotel about $30 a night - Ibis) -, fabulous food, very good flight connection on Asiana and photos from the Ice Festival that will knock your socks off.

 

So tuck that once in a lifetime trip in the back of your mind, and make 'em pay for that China visa and use it to the max.

[Bobocasey]

One never know what the Chinese government will do. Seems they change their mind as often as the wind blows. We used travelvisapro with offices in several city. I don't remember their price but we used them again when we went to Brazil.

[RMLincoln]

I can recommend TravelVisaPro.com if you decide to procure a visa for China. Very good rates, very good service, can call them for aid in filling out the online forms. m--

[Tampa Girl]

I sincerely appreciate all your responses. Today I was advised to speak with the tour desk. The tour desk declined to answer my questions and referred me to the documentation department who referred me back to the tour desk. After two hours on the telephone, I was verbally assured that if one books tours of Shanghai through HA, no visas are required. I was told that I would receive a printed policy statement in the near future from an HA supervisor confirming this policy. With all that said (including different opinions) and the ever changing world conditions, I will bite the bullet and pay all the fees to a travel agent to obtain two (wife and I) ten year multiple entry visas. I love Chinese food, anyway! Thanks again for your responses

 

I think that was a wise decision because, if you read HAL's instructions from their website, it plainly says that visas for China are required at the time you board.

[JennysUncle]

We are just back from the Volendam 3/14-28 from Yokohama to Hong Kong with an overnight at Shanghai. We did not get a China visa because we could use the recently-implemented tourism exemption for short visits there. However, at embarkation we were forced to sign an extensive acceptance of any fees and fines that we or HAL might be subject to. Later on board the front office apologized abjectly and said that this was because the Yokohama agents were unaware of the new regulations and that they were being educated. It does seem that even the home office is not clear on the details.

 

However, the exemption would not apply to most of the HAL itineraries. It is an exemption from the China visa for a visit to Shanghai of up to 15-days provided that: the entry is from a non-China port; the exit is to a non-China port; and the visitor has pre-arranged a tour with a licensed travel agency. That agency must register the visitor's passport with the immigration authorities.

 

For us this worked smoothly. Since this cruise did not include Beijing, we entered from Japan and exited to Japan (or at least that was the scheduled itinerary). (Cruises that go from Beijing to Shanghai would not qualify.) HAL understood the regulations and registered everyone on ship's tours. We had a private tour arranged with China Travel and they did register us. All of us "15-day" visitors were processed in a separate batch through the scowling but perfunctory passport check. We had expected to only be able to be off the ship with our tour, but in fact everyone who got their stamped document could get off and wander around independently.

 

This is the official Chinese description of the policy:

http://sh-immigration.gov.cn/listPageEn.aspx?lx=40&id=4735

[Tampa Girl]

We are just back from the Volendam 3/14-28 from Yokohama to Hong Kong with an overnight at Shanghai. We did not get a China visa because we could use the recently-implemented tourism exemption for short visits there. However' date=' at embarkation we were forced to sign an extensive acceptance of any fees and fines that we or HAL might be subject to. Later on board the front office apologized abjectly and said that this was because the Yokohama agents were unaware of the new regulations and that they were being educated. It does seem that even the home office is not clear on the details.

 

However, the exemption would not apply to most of the HAL itineraries. It is an exemption from the China visa for a visit to Shanghai of up to 15-days provided that: the entry is from a non-China port; the exit is to a non-China port; and the visitor has pre-arranged a tour with a licensed travel agency. That agency must register the visitor's passport with the immigration authorities.

 

For us this worked smoothly. Since this cruise did not include Beijing, we entered from Japan and exited to Japan (or at least that was the scheduled itinerary). (Cruises that go from Beijing to Shanghai would not qualify.) HAL understood the regulations and registered everyone on ship's tours. We had a private tour arranged with China Travel and they did register us. All of us "15-day" visitors were processed in a separate batch through the scowling but perfunctory passport check. We had expected to only be able to be off the ship with our tour, but in fact everyone who got their stamped document could get off and wander around independently.

 

This is the official Chinese description of the policy:

http://sh-immigration.gov.cn/listPageEn.aspx?lx=40&id=4735[/quote']

 

Most helpful. Thank you. However, there is one provision that seems to conflict with your statement that a cruise passenger could not utilize this regulation if the ship was going from Shanghai to Beijing. Either I have misunderstood your explanation or am misreading the following:

 

"Q: After completing visa-free entry procedures in Shanghai, can foreign tour groups travel to other port cities in China with the same cruise ship and exit the country there?

 

A: Yes. When the policy is adopted, it is already taken into consideration that cruise ships which enter China from Shanghai might call at and exit the country from other port cities in China. However, foreign tour groups should travel as a whole with their cruise ship and the areas of activity are confined to BeijingMunicipalityand cruise port cities and administrative regions of surrounding cities within Shanghai Municipality, Liaoning Province, HebeiProvince, Tianjin Municipality, Shandong Province, Jiangsu Province, Zhejiang Province, Fujian Province, Guangdong Province, Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Regionand HainanProvince. "

[JennysUncle]

You could be right; I should not have given an interpretation beyond my actual experience. I was reading that as implying that you could tour overland from e.g. Shanghai and rejoin at e.g. Beijing, but on rereading it does seem to imply multiple stops but only at selected ports. Really, by now HAL should fully understand the regulations and be able to give definitive advice. They seem to want to at most only address the situation for HAL excursions not private arrangements, and are taking the easy way out just to advise getting a full visa.

[USN59-79]

What make this confusing is that there are two separate visa exceptions. First there was the 144 hour (6-day) exception granted by the State; originally for airline passengers, then modified to include Shanghai International Cruise Terminal. With that exception there was no requirement to be attached to a Chinese tourist agency. Then Shanghai initiated their own 15-day exception which requires you to sign up for their sanctioned shore excursions. And of course the cruise lines either ignore or try not to know about these new visa exceptions for their passengers. Last year there was a thread where some Princess passengers were upset that they were required to buy visas when the regulations (sometimes clearly; sometimes not so clearly) stated that they didn't need them.

[Tampa Girl]

You could be right; I should not have given an interpretation beyond my actual experience. I was reading that as implying that you could tour overland from e.g. Shanghai and rejoin at e.g. Beijing' date=' but on rereading it does seem to imply multiple stops but only at selected ports. Really, by now HAL should fully understand the regulations and be able to give definitive advice. They seem to want to at most only address the situation for HAL excursions not private arrangements, and are taking the easy way out just to advise getting a full visa.[/quote']

 

The funny thing is, however, that the three visa processing websites I plugged into also state that China requires a visa. I think that if we are fortunate enough to take the Pacific Grand Voyage, we will get the full visa. It would be a real crock to not be able to get off the ship (or rejoin the ship) in China if we didn't have the proper visa.

[OlsSalt]

As a side note, at least they are not asking for a Yellow Fever certificate like the mess that Brazil -HAL - and the Amazon cruise was muddling about last year.

 

HAL boarding regulations, new CDC recommendations, prior horror stories about denied re-entry into the US, and Brazil visa expenses put a damper on that cruise for us too, so we decided to wait until things settled out.

 

Why the China Visa website does not even hint at these new cruise port exceptions is a major fail. Though when we got our one year China visa for the same cruise a few years ago, it was denied because the clerk demanded to see our air-tickets in and out of the country before she would accept our application.

 

She simply could not understand the concept that we were entering and departing the country on a cruise ship. She kept waving someone else's air tickets at us saying this is what we needed. We finally had to come back with more proof of our cruise tickets the next day.

 

So if China visa is now even recognizing special exceptions for cruise passengers they have already come a long way. But why not put the rules up on their website, which is now only allowing the very short airport visa free transit - with proof of the outgoing air ticket.

[niko8787]

The 15-Day Visa-Free Policy for foreign tour groups entering China by cruise from Shanghai has been taken effect on October 1st, 2016. You can join a excursion tour with a local travel agent in Shanghai who has been authorized and has the right to organize foreign tour groups to visit Shanghai and Beijing Municipality without a visa. What I know is China Highlights Travel Company is one of receiving agents.

[bennybear]

I had done a lot of research on this and had also set up tours. Sadly, due to a death in the family I was not able to go but the others on the tour had no problems.

 

I think the newness of these rules and the specifics are very important. For the 144 hour you have to arrive from one country and leave to another one which didn't work for our group. The 15 day exemption worked only for those on the 14 day cruise not if they were on back to back with multiple entries.

 

I do agree that their website should be up to date, but even their consulate wasn't clear.

 

So it is not an easy answer. HAL's visa and documents department was good to help. But everyone needs to do their own research for the specifics of their situation.

 

Unfortunately, I also heard of some people expecting the tour organizer to own this when it up to the individual to know what the rules are for them. Do your homework!

 

I organized many tours in Russia and that was a piece of cake in comparison. Hopefully, more people will report on their experiences and things will be clearer for next year.