how strict are they on age in the bars?

[kc58ab]

Im not going going to call him out. He is on the site and comments from time to time.

 

 

He said exactly what I said he said. That he teaches his students about rules and then for them to make their own rules. Following a rule is only an option for him and his teachings.

 

I posted it here to show where we are headed as a society. Its not just entitled parents that show by example that their children don't have to follow rules... our educators are also teaching it.

 

He didn't offend me at all, however he is the epitome of discussions like this where many people are scheming on how to break the next rule and the ultimate repercussions to the people that do follow the rules

 

Depends on what type of rules you are speaking of. Not every rule should be followed. Maybe he was attempting to teach independent thinking. Obviously there are rules that are needed and necessary for a wide range of reasons.

 

Not following a rule doesn't mean you are entitled or above the rules. Sometimes it is just worth the risk of the punishment.

 

I'm sure you have heard many sayings about blinding following rules. "Be careful blindly following the masses, sometimes the 'M' is silent" or "Blindly following without questioning is like sheep being led to slaughter" or "No one ever made a difference following the rules"?

 

Just food for thought. I don't think society in general is spinning out of control bc a 16 yr old goes to comedy show. Now if you think you don't have to follow any rules, and you aren't subject to any consequences when you break a rule that would be different. Making an exception on vacation a few times by age difference of couple years on something that isn't illegal is hardly that huge of an offense. But as I said before, if you were to ask either of my children their age they would have told the truth and we would have accepted the consequences of leaving that area.

[kc58ab]

I love your post on the other thread how to circumvent the "Cheers" rule. That was priceless.

 

I found the post you were referring to. Wrong person...not even close on the name...

 

[hftmrock]

But as I said before, if you were to ask either of my children their age they would have told the truth and we would have accepted the consequences of leaving that area.

 

 

then you obviously taught your children to respect authority and to obey the rules that are written if they want to participate in something (going on a cruise)

 

 

 

 

but some parents would tell their children to lie and even go off on the staff and curse them out in order to make a scene where they will be allowed to get in just to shut them up. Seen it, and some people that post here show that level of thinking is unfortunately alive and well. What your children would do is becoming less and less like the norm.

 

 

Thats basically my point.

[kc58ab]

then you obviously taught your children to respect authority and to obey the rules that are written if they want to participate in something (going on a cruise)

 

 

 

 

but some parents would tell their children to lie and even go off on the staff and curse them out in order to make a scene where they will be allowed to get in just to shut them up. Seen it, and some people that post here show that level of thinking is unfortunately alive and well. What your children would do is becoming less and less like the norm.

 

 

Thats basically my point.

 

I agree wholeheartedly that you shouldn't teach children to lie. Despite some (not saying you) people thinking that bc I would allow my child to go to a comedy show at 16 that I'm teaching him to lie or that he doesn't have to follow rules is wrong. He clearly understands that lying is wrong and there are consequences to your actions when you break the rules.

 

He clearly demonstrated it at the age of 16 one afternoon when school was out he was hanging out with his best friend when he was supposed to be home. They decided to go for a ride down a back road without permission with an additional two people in the truck. It was a road he had never been down that suddenly changes from paved to gravel. He lost control and wrecked. Two of the kids left the scene before I arrived. Once I was there the police were as well and as they were questioning him on what happened they asked if him and the other boy were the only two in the truck. He looked at me and then said, "No Officer, two more of my friends where and left so I wouldn't get into trouble." Since at 16 you aren't allowed to have more than one non relative in the vehicle he was looking at a revoked license until 18. He was honest and prepared to accept the consequences. Despite my disappointment in his bad choices, I was proud he was honest. Lucky for him the officer decided bc he was honest and there were no injuries or property damage to not to ticket him for it. He did however have punishment at home and didn't drive for 6 months after.

[Sneezykevina]

Here it comes....someone going to call you out and ask "duhhhhh, do you follow the speed limit 100% of the time"....I just feel it coming :')....that is the typical response when you call out someone for breaking the rules

 

But Officer, I thought 65 was the posted minimum!

[Saint Greg]

But Officer, I thought 65 was the posted minimum!

 

Just running with the flow of traffic.

[First and Ten]

The "speed limit" argument as defense for breaking rules cracks me up. At least one chucklehead always uses it :')

Edited July 14, 2017 by First and Ten

[BoDidly]

how strict are they on age in the bars?

 

Not at all strict. Once I sat on a Lido bar right beside a lady and infant child for hours . I would do my favorite shot and the child would turn up her milk bottle. This went on and on for a while until she finally fell asleep That was it ,I had met my challenger and defeated them.

 

 

The hangover was bad the next day though , just can't keep up with these youngsters of today . :cool:

[BoDidly]

Officer: "Sir, do you know how fast you were going"

Driver: "No idea, i cant read the speedometer due to all that vodka I had"

Officer : Sir ,you were going 110 miles per hour :mad:

Driver : No **** , I would have been going faster than that if you hadn't stopped me. :eek:

[kc58ab]

The "speed limit" argument as defense for breaking rules cracks me up. At least one chucklehead always uses it :')

 

Of course someone does, and like now more than one, bc it is a valid argument.

 

You're "cracking up" bc u can't argue against it and u are caught on a "rule" you often break yourself. It is just different bc it's you and your breaking the rules is somehow lesser and justified.

 

Let us not forget that that rule breakage has far more possible dire consequences to others than someone going to a comedy show at 16.

 

Keep laughing it is a good cover when you don't have a better comeback ;p :loudcry:

[First and Ten]

Of course someone does, and like now more than one, bc it is a valid argument.

 

You're "cracking up" bc u can't argue against it and u are caught on a "rule" you often break yourself. It is just different bc it's you and your breaking the rules is somehow lesser and justified.

 

Let us not forget that that rule breakage has far more possible dire consequences to others than someone going to a comedy show at 16.

 

Keep laughing it is a good cover when you don't have a better comeback ;p :loudcry:

 

I think we both agreed that there is a difference between a "rule" and a "law"....right off the bat, comparing the Serenity Deck/Comedy Club ages which are "rules" to a speed limit "law" is flawed. How about some other "rules" i should break. I guess you have no issue with people smoking on their balcony, i mean its a rule, right? Its the smokers vacation, they should be able to do what they want. Similar to you advising that an adult can stand at the R rated comedy show because your 16 yr old is there, i would say if you dont want to smell my cigarette smoke, you can go inside your room. Remember, this is MY vacation :rolleyes:....my point is, lets stick to the actual topic and not reach for straws when trying to make comparisons

[kc58ab]

I think we both agreed that there is a difference between a "rule" and a "law"....right off the bat, comparing the Serenity Deck/Comedy Club ages which are "rules" to a speed limit "law" is flawed right off the bat. How about some other "rules" i should break. I guess you have no issue with people smoking on their balcony, i mean its a rule, right? Its the smokers vacation, they should be able to do what they want. Similar to you advising that an adult can stand at the R rated comedy show because your 16 yr old is there, i would say if you dont want to smell my cigarette smoke, you can go inside your room. Remember, this is MY vacation :rolleyes:....my point is, lets stick to the actual topic and not reach for straws when trying to make comparisons

 

As I said before the no smoking rule is for safety. Possible life and death consequences. I'm sure since u follow all rules or laws u go to muster drills where they explain the hazards of cigarettes going over board lit can blow back onto ship and start a fire.

 

Also smoking does affect others. It has been scientifically proven that second hand smoke can cause cancer and lead to death. I don't believe anyone else's life is at risk because my sixteen-year-old is at the comedy show.

 

Talk about grasping at straws...smoking isn't even close in comparison.

[Havingfun2010]

If we are sticking to your example of the comedy club (and not extending it to bending the rules regarding underage drinking for which I'm not in favor of), I do have some thoughts on why a parent may opt to "disregard" the 18+ guideline (because unlike the drinking age, which is a law, the age restrictions on the comedy club are a guideline): parents differ in the content that they allow/prefer their children to be exposed to. I'm thankful that there is an 18+ callout on the comedy clubs as I take it to mean that there will be adult content/language and that gives me, as the parent, the ability to make my own decision about whether my child should stay to hear it or not. However, I take it as little more than a heads up vs. a "rule" or a "law". Granted, my son is only 12 now so he would never be allowed (by me or anyone else) to be in an environment where adult language/content was being presented at this age. However, at 16 or 17 depending on his maturity and ability to handle it at that time, I may allow him to stay if he wishes and his presence is such that he's not standing out as being obviously underage. Afterall, I am his parent and I know better than anyone what content he should/has been exposed to and is able to handle. With that being said, if he were ever asked to leave, we would not resist.

 

Part of my perspective on this is how I was raised. I was always a bit more mature than my numerical age. I graduated high school, started college, and moved onto campus when I was 16 years old. Were my parents completely on board with that, eh. . .they weren't entirely sure about it but they supported me in my decision that I felt ready. Yes, there were experiences that first year of college that were. . .interesting as a 16 year old but most people had no idea that I was so much younger as I didn't stand out like I was still a kid. Whereas, there are PLENTY of 20 or 21 year olds who still act like they are 15. My point is that age really is sometimes just a number and it's more in the maturity and way one presents themselves that should be judged vs. their numerical age.

 

Again, the legal drinking age is 21 and I'm not in favor of bending that as it's a law. And this is coming from the girl who couldn't even legally drink until over a year AFTER she graduated college!

 

Ok, so you are saying that you 15 year old daughter, can have a sexual conversation, talked to in a sexual way, and be part of possibly sexual jokes by the comedian? But yet if that were to happen in school, or anywhere in public, it would be a crime against a minor.

Well you may think and "approve" of it, most adults that are performing do not want to be making sexual "adult" comments to a minor child in the audience.

 

The reason for the rules, that are not laws in the open seas, is so that those parents that accept this as ok, because they think they are mature enough to have a sexual conversation with an adult in the disguise of humor, can be overridden by a organization, called the cruise line, to protect the comedian and the young people for sexual misconduct during a performance.

 

Carnival is doing the right thing.

[First and Ten]

As I said before the no smoking rule is for safety. Possible life and death consequences. I'm sure since u follow all rules or laws u go to muster drills where they explain the hazards of cigarettes going over board lit can blow back onto ship and start a fire.

 

Also smoking does affect others. It has been scientifically proven that second hand smoke can cause cancer and lead to death. I don't believe anyone else's life is at risk because my sixteen-year-old is at the comedy show.

 

Talk about grasping at straws...smoking isn't even close in comparison.

 

We can debate the smoking issue rule on another thread....If you think its just about "safety", no way....If it was truly a safety issue, then why isnt it banned on the entire ship. You going to tell me that its 100% safe that if you throw a cigarette off the Lido deck, where smoking is allowed, but its highly dangerous if you do it from your balcony :rolleyes:

 

So in your opinion, the smoking "rule" isnt a close comparison, but the speed limit "law" is?....you just painted yourself into a corner :D

[teknoge3k]

Since at 16 you aren't allowed to have more than one non relative in the vehicle he was looking at a revoked license until 18.

Whoa, you can't have more than 1 non-relative with you at 16 in your state? I'd never heard of that before. It's interesting to learn the laws that vary state by state. How old do you have to be to have more than 1 person with you? What state are you in?

[kc58ab]

We can debate the smoking issue rule on another thread....If you think its just about "safety", no way....If it was truly a safety issue, then why isnt it banned on the entire ship. You going to tell me that its 100% safe that if you throw a cigarette off the Lido deck, where smoking is allowed, but its highly dangerous if you do it from your balcony :rolleyes:

 

So in your opinion, the smoking "rule" isnt a close comparison, but the speed limit "law" is?....you just painted yourself into a corner :D

 

I'm not a smoker, so I wouldn't know if you can smoke from the lido deck. I don't recall seeing that happen and am not sure that is correct. If it is maybe it is due to the fact that the lido deck hangs over the lower decks and that isn't as much of a chance of it being sucked back in. Regardless if you want to use safety of the boat or not, my health safety is still a fact. Even if you can smoke on board (outside) it does affect my health. How does my 16 yr old being at the comedy show affect your health long term? It doesn't.

 

I might also add that the speeding comparison is used as a comparison that you break rules/laws. As you mentioned breaking a rule is somewhat different than breaking a law. Laws help protect safety and I think most would agree are more important. So you breaking a law isn't a bad as me breaking a rule?

 

You using smoking as a comparison to a rule breaking of the comedy show under age doesn't have the same consequences to others.

 

If you don't want to debate smoking on this chain, that I might add you brought into the conversation as a comparison example then maybe you shouldn't take this initial debate to other threads like you have?

Edited July 14, 2017 by kc58ab

[First and Ten]

I'm not a smoker, so I wouldn't know if you can smoke from the lido deck. I don't recall seeing that happen and am not sure that is correct. If it is maybe it is due to the fact that the lido deck hangs over the lower decks and that isn't as much of a chance of it being sucked back in. Regardless if you want to use safety of the boat or not, my health safety is still a fact. Even if you can smoke on board (outside) it does affect my health. How does my 16 yr old being at the comedy show affect your health long term? It doesn't.

 

If you don't want to debate smoking on this chain, that I might add you brought into the conversation as a comparison example then maybe you shouldn't take this initial debate to other threads like you have?

 

Twist it, nice try....absolutely agree, lets not talk about comparing the smoking "rules" with the age restriction "rules". Can we also agree that we wont compare age restriction "rules" with speed limit "laws"....agreed? ;)

 

I guess it breaks down to mindset and a few different camps of people....One camp seems to be of the mindset of "i will follow the rules and if I am inconvenienced, that is just the way it is, i have to live with it"....You seem to be in another camp that you will follow some of the rules, but if a Carnival rule inconveniences you, then in your mind you dont have to follow it because YOU dont see it as a big deal and this is YOUR vacation and YOU should be able to do what YOU want to do. Because YOU dont think its a big deal, your mindset and opinion supersedes any rule because this is KC's world and everyone else are just spectators....did i get that right? ;)

[kc58ab]

Twist it, nice try....absolutely agree, lets not talk about comparing the smoking "rules" with the age restriction "rules". Can we also agree that we wont compare age restriction "rules" with speed limit "laws"....agreed? ;)

 

I guess it breaks down to mindset and a few different camps of people....One camp seems to be of the mindset of "i will follow the rules and if I am inconvenienced, that is just the way it is, i have to live with it"....You seem to be in another camp that you will follow some of the rules, but if a Carnival rule inconveniences you, then in your mind you dont have to follow it because YOU dont see it as a big deal and this is YOUR vacation and YOU should be able to do what YOU want to do. Because YOU dont think its a big deal, your mindset and opinion supersedes any rule because this is KC's world and everyone else are just spectators....did i get that right? ;)

 

I added a bit to my comment above after I clicked too soon. You might relook to answer your first question.

 

In order for your explanation of "my world" to makes sense that would have to apply to EVERYONE bc EVERYONE breaks some rules or laws sometime. So I guess according to that we all are selfish, should be able to do whatever we want, and no one else's opinion is more important than their own. In that case I'm no worse than you, which is one of my main points. You are no better bc you haven't taken a 16 yr old to the comedy show or 17 yr old to the Serenity deck. In fact some rules/laws you break affect others much more severely.

[kc58ab]

Ok, so you are saying that you 15 year old daughter, can have a sexual conversation, talked to in a sexual way, and be part of possibly sexual jokes by the comedian? But yet if that were to happen in school, or anywhere in public, it would be a crime against a minor.

Well you may think and "approve" of it, most adults that are performing do not want to be making sexual "adult" comments to a minor child in the audience.

 

The reason for the rules, that are not laws in the open seas, is so that those parents that accept this as ok, because they think they are mature enough to have a sexual conversation with an adult in the disguise of humor, can be overridden by a organization, called the cruise line, to protect the comedian and the young people for sexual misconduct during a performance.

 

Carnival is doing the right thing.

 

 

I know this didn't reference one of my posts, but I wanted to acknowledge that you Sir have the best rebuttal so far in my opinion. One and done as well. Kudos to you!

 

With that being said, I think there is a slight flaw in your statement. If hearing sexual innuendos was a crime anywhere else with minors then many people would be in jail. Teenagers probably hear more than us on the subject. Not saying that is right, but none the less they are subjected much more of this in the world than we can prevent. Unless you want to shelter your child and not let them interact with others it will happen. I'm willing to bet they don't hear anything at the comedy show at 16 they haven't heard before many times.

 

Did you realize that at 17 they can by an R rated movie ticket? And that an 18 year old friend can buy one for their 15 yr old friend? Not to mention that a parent can bring a 7 yr old to an R rated movie. Would I? Of course not, and I hope someone wouldn't bring a small child, but it can and does happen. Are there any legal recourse to the movie theatre? No, because the parent allowed it. I think the same could be said for Carnival.

[First and Ten]

I added a bit to my comment above after I clicked too soon. You might relook to answer your first question.

 

In order for your explanation of "my world" to makes sense that would have to apply to EVERYONE bc EVERYONE breaks some rules or laws sometime. So I guess according to that we all are selfish, should be able to do whatever we want, and no one else's opinion is more important than their own. In that case I'm no worse than you, which is one of my main points. You are no better bc you haven't taken a 16 yr old to the comedy show or 17 yr old to the Serenity deck. In fact some rules/laws you break affect others much more severely.

 

 

You keep digging the hole deeper, put the shovel down....You cant quantify EVERYONE....for all i know there is a small % of the population that follows EVERY rule....You have no way of knowing that, you can ASSUME everyone breaks a rule, but when you ASSUME....well, you know the rest....Now c'mon KC, i want to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are a mature adult. You are telling me we are going to resort to what an 8 yr old says...."Well little Johnny did it too"....so i have this straight, because you think rules are broken all the time, the justification is "Well somewhere out there someone is breaking a rule, i can break this one"....lol, seriously, that is the stance? I bolded a section above in your post when you say "You are no better bc...." I am not sure what you mean....i never said or even implied i was a BETTER person/parent/etc than you or anyone else. In my limited exposure to you based just off these few posts i would maybe venture at best a basic guess that i am probably not as selfish or entitled as you, again, strictly based on our opinions, but that doesnt make me a better person/parent overall. Heck, you dont let your 17 yr old daughter go alone around the ship, i would say that is very protective, which i happen to agree with

[Momma1980]

 

I don't complain that I don't get to make sand art or color t-shirts in camp even though I pay the same price. Because that's for kids. Leave the adults to have their thing as per the cruise ticket contract that has been previously posted.

 

 

 

Can you imagine how irate parents would be if they discovered their young child was sharing a playtime with a random adult on the ship who decided that they were going to try the kid's club? Beyond creepy. It would NEVER happen. But somehow, we 'allow' the young ones to experience the adult experience more readily. I don't know why this is.

[kc58ab]

You keep digging the hole deeper, put the shovel down....You cant quantify EVERYONE....for all i know there is a small % of the population that follows EVERY rule....You have no way of knowing that, you can ASSUME everyone breaks a rule, but when you ASSUME....well, you know the rest....Now c'mon KC, i want to give you the benefit of the doubt that you are a mature adult. You are telling me we are going to resort to what an 8 yr old says...."Well little Johnny did it too"....so i have this straight, because you think rules are broken all the time, the justification is "Well somewhere out there someone is breaking a rule, i can break this one"....lol, seriously, that is the stance? I bolded a section above in your post when you say "You are no better bc...." I am not sure what you mean....i never said or even implied i was a BETTER person/parent/etc than you or anyone else. In my limited exposure to you based just off these few posts i would maybe venture at best a basic guess that i am probably not as selfish or entitled as you, again, strictly based on our opinions, but that doesnt make me a better person/parent overall. Heck, you dont let your 17 yr old daughter go alone around the ship, i would say that is very protective, which i happen to agree with

 

You cannot seriously believe there are perfect people out there that never have broke a rule or law? That is naïve at best. I highly doubt it. Have you never broke a rule or law? You haven't disputed it so I'm taking it you have, as expected. Therefore that is my main point you are not any better. Not any less selfish or entitled. A few people act like this rule breaking in my examples are heinous. There are not even close. I wholeheartedly believe as well that it hasn't negatively impacted anyone's vacation. You know if either of my children were sitting anywhere not just on vacation and someone older comes along they would give up their seat out of respect. So again I'm going with no harm no foul.

 

I would however love to know how you compute you are not as selfish or entitled as me. For the 100th time probably, I'm not taking my kids to either place bc I feel entitled, but it is worth the risk of consequences. Consequences that we would have to leave if questioned. Again acts that didn't affect anyone else negatively.

 

As for maturity, I would base on posts alone that I'm more mature. I don't go comment on other posts that aren't about this debate and comment about someone and this debate. That seems a bit like you said, using 8 year mentality, Johnny is doing something I don't like and I'm going to tattle.

[First and Ten]

 

I don't complain that I don't get to make sand art or color t-shirts in camp even though I pay the same price. Because that's for kids. Leave the adults to have their thing as per the cruise ticket contract that has been previously posted.

 

 

 

Can you imagine how irate parents would be if they discovered their young child was sharing a playtime with a random adult on the ship who decided that they were going to try the kid's club? Beyond creepy. It would NEVER happen. But somehow, we 'allow' the young ones to experience the adult experience more readily. I don't know why this is.

 

Good post

 

16 yr old in the Comedy Club taking up seats meant for allowed patrons, response is "No big deal, let the other people stand, as long as me and my family get what we want on our vacation, then i dont care about anyone else"

 

18 yr old on the Serenity Deck, taking up chairs and loungers for the allowed over 21 crowd, same parent will say "Well i want to go to the Serenity Deck and i didnt want my 18 yr old alone....we got here first, so if people who got here later dont get a seat, not my problem"

 

The same parent picking up their 8 yr old from the kids camp sees a 40 yr old passenger fingerpainting with this parents child, i am wondering if that parents response will be "That 40 yr old paid his fare and should be able to do what he/she wants and if that means fingerpainting with my child, i have no issue with that"

 

LOL, that aint happening....That same parent that knowing broke the rules to benefit them would be screaming at every ship official he/she could find

[stevefrisco]

"Poor fool, streets don't love you like I do

I said close your mouth and eat

You make some paper, than you make your own rules"

 

I love me some of the new 2Chains album. These lyrics came from my favorite song on there, "Poor Fool". The chorus (see above) is advice from Mama Chains to young 2Chains or "Titty Boy" as he was known then because he was such a mama's boy. I think if a kid is old enough to work to buy a drink or cigarettes, then society shouldn't be bothering them about stuff. If you make some money, you make the rules.

[kc58ab]

Whoa, you can't have more than 1 non-relative with you at 16 in your state? I'd never heard of that before. It's interesting to learn the laws that vary state by state. How old do you have to be to have more than 1 person with you? What state are you in?

 

Correct, for the first 6 months after obtaining your license. Missouri.