Is it time carnival goes mega ship?

[jimbo5544]

Deflection. Again. This thread started getting off track at post #63. And now I will extract myself from your alternate reality vortex.

That is what happens when the facts get light....or is that scurrilous?

[jimbo5544]

I'm not sure that there is a real case to be made for Mobile and Jacksonville. Both of them are within easy driving distance of where I live but yet I'm driving to Port Canaveral instead. Concentrating operations in places like New Orleans and Tampa and Port Canaveral probably makes more sense than spreading out operations to include Mobile, Jacksonville, Charleston, etc. It really comes down to how much local folks change their perspectives about traveling to a nearby, larger port, like we do. However, I recall at least one smaller port's city discussing the importance of improving the port so that the port can support larger ships, which evidently they see as inevitable, so who knows?

 

Let's hope so. Your off topic meta discussions have been unnecessary and distracting.

 

 

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We better inform Carnival that their marketing plan in regards to home ports is doomed..... Not to worry, me thinks a longer term solution has already been designed for the smaller home ports that my friend is worried about.

[Thorncroft]

I know that sooner or later the Fantasy class ships will be sold to other cruise lines or scrapped. What I'm wondering is what will happen to port cities like Mobile and Jacksonville. Will they be abandoned? Or will they be upgraded to Victory or Triumph? (I doubt that they'll get a Spirit class ship).

 

 

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Mobile can handle any of the ships, if a business case can be made for it. Jacksonville, on the other hand has bridge issues that prevent the larger ships from access. Tampa and Baltimore have the same problem.

[bUU]

We better inform Carnival that their marketing plan in regards to home ports is doomed..... Not to worry, me thinks a longer term solution has already been designed for the smaller home ports that my friend is worried about.

I never said anything about their Home Port marketing plan being "doomed". I said operations make more sense when they're concentrated if consumers are willing to travel to centrally located ports.

 

Why are you lying about what I wrote?

 

I see you. I see your messages. Does that make you feel better? Do you feel validated? Can we move on now without you engaging and more of this lying about what I'm writing?

 

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[Thorncroft]

Actually, unless and until the Fantasy class begins retirement, Carnival may be scrambling for home ports for their ever growing fleet.

[jimbo5544]

Actually, unless and until the Fantasy class begins retirement, Carnival may be scrambling for home ports for their ever growing fleet.

They do have decisions to make....and selling the Fantasy class does not appear to be in the cards.

[jimbo5544]

I never said anything about their Home Port marketing plan being "doomed". I said operations make more sense when they're concentrated if consumers are willing to travel to centrally located ports.

 

Why are you lying about what I wrote?

 

I see you. I see your messages. Does that make you feel better? Do you feel validated? Can we move on now without you engaging and more of this lying about what I'm writing?

 

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Yeah...lying, that is what I was doing....let's move on.

[riclop]

Why not.

[bUU]

Yeah...lying, that is what I was doing....let's move on.

What a craven apology. Yes. Let's move on.

 

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[Dave0311]

I feel most of Carnival's ships for a long time have been iterations of the Destiny class. A few new improvements and features are introduced with each new class, but the overall design of each class has been pretty similar. It will be interesting to see what a new shipyard has to offer with the upcoming 180k ton class ships. Will they stray far from the current formula that has seemed to work for Carnival? I love Carnival as it is, but it would be interesting to have the Carnival experience in a new, different setting.

[Thorncroft]

I feel most of Carnival's ships for a long time have been iterations of the Destiny class. A few new improvements and features are introduced with each new class, but the overall design of each class has been pretty similar. It will be interesting to see what a new shipyard has to offer with the upcoming 180k ton class ships. Will they stray far from the current formula that has seemed to work for Carnival? I love Carnival as it is, but it would be interesting to have the Carnival experience in a new, different setting.

 

The 180,000 tonners will be a clean slate design. Different shipyard. All new design. Exciting times. It's good to see Carnival kick their Fincantieri habit.

[Cyber Kat]

It's the overall ship design. There is no single draw. It's so much more spacious, everything about it is so much more beautiful, grander, and spectacular. Little things like having drinks with live music on the Rising Tide bar, then hopping off in Central Park to enjoy wine and live string music around real plants. Then maybe heading down to the boardwalk for ice cream and catching a Cirque style diving show in the AquaTheater. Afterwards, heading to the Entertainment Place for some live jazz and maybe hit up the huge casino for a bit. There is simply a flow and feel with the neighborhood concepts that doesn't exist on Carnival ships. If you haven't been on Oasis class, it's something you just need to experience. You can't be a passionate cruiser without at least trying it.

 

 

 

No thanks. I'm looking for lines with smaller ships and less people. I don't need floating theme park/mega mall monstrosities. I want a ship to be a ship. That's what I'm passionate about - the actual sailing experience. I don't need all the rest.

 

For those who do enjoy!

 

 

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[cjknox]

Royal Caribbean's has been clear over the years that the ship is the destination as far as they are concerned. The Oasis class does not feel like a ship, which is a problem for many people. The upcoming MSC World class and other larger new builds from other cruise lines are large but still feel like cruise ships. Just larger than average ones (Obviously).

 

When Destiny debuted there was some negativity about its size, but the difference between the Destiny and Oasis is that while they were/are groundbreaking ships Destiny is not inwardly focused unlike Oasis class.

 

The bottom line is that Carnival has always been a conservative cruise line when it comes to ship size, especially after Destiny (which in reality is not that much larger than the Fantasy class, it was just a different design). Despite this their ships will eventually get bigger as we'll see in 2020 and beyond because larger ships are more economically viable and cost effective.

 

Also, I think the Italian shipyard Fincantieri is not as skilled in large cruise ship design/construction as yards like Meyer Werft/STX so Carnival keeps its designs derivative and evolutionary to prevent major problems. Aida had problems with their latest prototype ships being built in Japan (they were late being delivered and had huge cost overruns). When Royal Princess was being built in 2012/2013 there were issues as it was being built since it was a new design. Even when the Destiny was being built in the 90's there were issues with its construction and even years later it still had issues which was part of the reason why it underwent a massive refurbishment into the Sunshine and most of the ship was gutted.

 

I don't think it's any coincidence that the new design is being built in Finland and I don't think it'll be the last. The Fantasy and Spirit classes were built in Finland and are considered to be the best ships in the Carnival fleet by many; from an overall design and quality aspect. The new Carnival ship will look very similar to the Aida new build, minus the eyes and lips. Haha.

 

[delk]

I for one don't want to pay higher rates for things I will never use. Such as a Rock Climbing Wall, Flo Rider, or an Ice Skating rink. All the extra comes with a price. so I am okay with Carnival sticking with what they have gotten right so far.

 

 

 

I totally agree with you!

 

 

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[tidecat]

I'm not sure that there is a real case to be made for Mobile and Jacksonville. Both of them are within easy driving distance of where I live but yet I'm driving to Port Canaveral instead. Concentrating operations in places like New Orleans and Tampa and Port Canaveral probably makes more sense than spreading out operations to include Mobile, Jacksonville, Charleston, etc. It really comes down to how much local folks change their perspectives about traveling to a nearby, larger port, like we do.

 

If Carnival starts building one ship to replace two, these would be the most mathematically appropriate substitutions:

 

Fantasy & Fascination (new ship to Galveston; Freedom to Mobile, Valor to San Juan)

Sensation & Ecstasy (new ship to Miami; Victory to Charleston)

Imagination & Inspiration (new ship to Long Beach)

Paradise & Elation (new ship to Tampa; Miracle to Jacksonville)

 

Keep in mind having a variety of ports makes cruising a non-flying affair for more people. Someone in Atlanta could drive to Mobile or New Orleans (and they'd pass right by the terminal in Mobile on their way to New Orleans), but driving to Galveston for the same itinerary would be add at least one extra days on each end of the trip.

 

I'm not a 100% certain Carnival will begin replacing ships in 2020, mainly because there are still US markets that are underserved by Carnival - namely New York. There's also Australia - Carnival could take a 22-year old Paradise in 2020, and still get a decade's worth of sailings down under.

[CJHAN]

Seems like a good idea to me. They might not need to bring on new things like flow rider just more acces to things that they already have. I so wanted to do thrill theater but it was always full. Or biger specialty restaurants. I do think people woulf use and enjoy rock climbing i definatly would.

 

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[FinallyCruisinAgain]

Oh god, please no. Or at least I won't sail on it.

 

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[North of 60]

The issue with Carnival is that they don't make the ships bigger, thus the need to reduce the public areas :)

 

I think the new LNG ships from Carnival, I think 180,000GT - could actually solve this issue and may be a step in the right direction. That's a very large ship. I'm looking forward to seeing what they offer with the new designs. You will notice they are finally dumping the terrible Fincantieri builder. It's going to be a big departure from the existing ships, I think.

 

My only concern would be the initial specs are a little troubling and it sounds crowded.

 

Carnival new ship is 180,000GT and 5,200 passengers at double occupancy. Harmony of the Seas is 225,000GT and 5,400 passengers at double occupancy. That's a lot less space for nearly the same passenger load for Carnival. But I'll wait and see what they come up with before passing judgment.

Fincantieri may actually BUILD the ships, but have very little input in design. Maybe we should look at who designed the ships ...

 

 

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[North of 60]

All modern cruise ships from the major lines are floating shopping malls. Clearly, you haven't actually sailed on the larger ships. People that makes these ridiculous comments just come off as a cranky old man. "Who wants a computer in their pockets?" "Why do we need color on our TV!!!" "Who wants to ride on a floating shopping mall? (while sailing on a floating shopping mall)" Maybe you would prefer a Bass Tracker and a six pack?

And maybe we can keep the personal insults out of here? It was a serious question. If you can't respond seriously or with a little class, please don't bother responding.

 

 

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[North of 60]

Oasis is a slam dunk. It's just not for you. The 5th one is already on order and they fill up every sailing. It's a slam dunk.

 

I've never really understood the people who complain "it's a resort at sea" - what exactly do you think Carnival Glory/Vista/Dream/Magic etc. are? Carnival added an iMax theater, sky bikes, etc. It's no different in desire to add amenities and activities that people want to do. The real difference is that Royal simply does it much better.

 

What you are really saying is that you want to feel the ship move more (most people want it as still as can be). I tend to wonder where the cutoff is for you. Obviously you wouldn't like Vista - too much "resort", right? Maybe you prefer Seabourn? Why do you even sail Carnival if you don't like the floating resorts? Because that's exactly what Carnival is offering.

 

You are certainly entitled to like what you like, I just have a hard time making sense of it. Why wouldn't you sail on a line like Seabourn, then? No frills, WAY more ports than Carnival... etc. You could make your exact argument between the "ship" from Seabourn that goes everywhere and the "floating resorts" from Carnival with limited ports, no?

You might want to reword that first line ... how about "For me, Oasis is a slam dunk."

 

 

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[portocaller]

For me, bigger isn't better. Give me a smaller ship any day. I personally thought the Holiday, Jubilee, and Celebration were the perfect size. When the Fantasy class first came out, they were almost too big. I am about to sail on the Triumph but only because of where it ports.

[Crusingdiva62]

I go on a cruise to get to the destination. Why would I want to do all of those rock climbing, flowrider on a ship when I can do them in port? Just not a fan of these large behemoths of the seas looking like floating barges with condos plopped on top!

 

 

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[North of 60]

Well go ahead and post the industry research proving your contention. Oh wait that's just your guess? Imagine that! What could your guess be based on? Could it be based on what the companies that do the market research and have access to that information are doing with Millions upon Millions... even billions of dollars? No. Apparently it's just based on your own personal antipathy for the changes that are going to be happening.

 

Like it or not the best insight we have into what we passengers collectively are likely to be rewarding the cruise lines for doing is by watching what the cruise lines do with the insights they get from their research. They are not guessing. They're doing research.

 

You don't like big ships. Message received. Get over it. Two 180,000 gross ton Carnival Mega ships are coming. They're not building them on a lark.

 

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Now we're getting into "I'll show you mine if you show me yours."

Holy cow, people ,... GROW UP.

If you are going to assert something, have some fact based evidence to back it up (debating 101)

No personal attacks. (Debating 101)

 

 

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[Cyber Kat]

I think that's what is underlying a lot of the strange comments being made. People like what they like and they see the ascendancy of other preferences as an attack on their own. To some extent there's Merit in that concern in that the more passengers lean toward these other priorities the more the cruise lines will seek to adapt themselves to satisfy those ascending priorities and therefore leave other priorities behind.

 

 

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"Strange comments" ???? I must have missed those.

 

People like what they like and they see the ascendancy of other preferences as an attack on their own..

 

Um... "an attack?" No. Not at all. I certainly don't see that. Everyone has their own preferences and no ones preferences are superior or inferior to anyone else's. That's where the problem comes in - thinking that the preferences of others have no merit.

 

I have no problem adapting. I adapt by moving on when change that I have no say or control over doesn't suit me.

 

I like Carnival Spirit Class ships and up until recently really enjoyed sailing on them, but Carnival seems to be cutting aspects, that enhanced my experience , to either keep prices low or to increase their bottom line - probably a combination of both.

 

It matters not to me if they build mega ships, I won't be sailing on them. Not my preference.

 

It may (or may not) surprise you, but there are other lines that are actually building smaller ships at a rather fast clip, and these ships are also sailing full.

 

So while mega ships with bells and whistles seem to be the preference of some, and a current trend, they are clearly not the preference of all. Choice is good [emoji4]

 

 

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[bUU]

"Strange comments" ???? I must have missed those.

 

Um... "an attack?" No. Not at all. I certainly don't see that.

Choice is good for consumers, but providing the full spectrum of choices is not necessarily good for suppliers. The American mainstream mass-market Cruise passenger is so diverse that if cruise lines were to design products that appeal to each identifiable choice that a consumer would make they would be making a million ships. The mass Market works because you find critical mass in the market and appeal to that smaller set of preferences.

 

You are right that there are cruise lines that are building and filling smaller ships. Seabourn's entire fleet is filled with vessels that are less than 41,000 GT. So why is it then that some passengers of Carnival (and Royal Caribbean, and Holland America, for that matter) are posting these "strange" messages, messages that seem to have gotten past your viewing, messages criticizing the decisions that have these several cruise lines building larger ships based on their expanding knowledge of their target market and its customer base? After all, like you said, there are other cruise lines that are offering these smaller ship experiences. You say you're moving on. Why is that not the right answer for others who feel the same way you do? Why is it that some cannot grant that it could be the right decision for Carnival to build 180,000 GT ships, leaving the operation of smaller ships to its sister brand?

 

And that's the crux of the issue: Not the reasonable decision to move onto a different cruise line that is offering that small ship experience if that is what you want but rather the unreasonable reaction to assert that the cruise line should ignore what it is learning about the marketplace and serve a small number of passengers' preferences over its own business model.

Edited July 28, 2017 by bUU