ICK SMOKING....where can I stay away from it...

[habby]

At this point, I would like to say thank you to everyone, smokers and nonsmokers, for not getting up on soapboxes doing preaching. This has been (up to now at least) one of the most civil discussions I've seen on these boards.

 

GROUP HUGS ON THE F-DECK!!!!:D (Don't forget to bring your coolers)

[Hootsie]

You couldn't be more correct, Cotton. Unfortunately, the person that you were replying to refuses to acknowledge that, although a noble attempt, the Paradise ultimately was grand failure. Smokers stop cruising...cruise lines go belly up. If non-smokers can't keep one ship full, how are they going to keep 20 full? Won’t happen.

 

The Paradise was a failure because it was the same ol' ports every time. People want change, they don't want the same thing every cruise. When we were on the Paradise it was packed (sold out). If it was still a non smoking ship going out of the same ports, I'd have to decline. We want something different.

 

There are many more non smokers than smokers, so you can't say an entire cruiseline would go under if they went non smoking. I'd like to see what happened if RCL went non smoking. I know I'd never sail Carnival again. It would be an interesting gamble if one had the balls to do it.

[gr1634]

Couldn't use the balcony because the people next door were smokers??? What happened to that 30kt wind blowing down the side of the ship? Did anyone think to ask the folks next door to share time if it was that big a problem? I am sorry - the balcony is OUTSIDE!!!

[OCDACTIVE]

Couldn't use the balcony because the people next door were smokers??? What happened to that 30kt wind blowing down the side of the ship? Did anyone think to ask the folks next door to share time if it was that big a problem? I am sorry - the balcony is OUTSIDE!!!

 

I am a smoker as well, and I have friends who are allergic.. If you are outside on a balcony even with the wind (but who said they were moving) and the person next to you is down wind / allergic, it definately can make a difference.. But you are right, if they have a problem it isn't hard to lean over and ask when they will be done.

 

There was someone saying they couldn't use their balcony the WHOLE cruise because of smokers next to them. I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. But if it isn't, I say shame on them for not saying anything. Most people are very pleasant and would understand.

[kellanderson]

thanks for the note on RCL....i am just bummed about the music that's all...maybe i'll wear a pocket mask...mmm wouldn't that draw attention to myself...then people would blowing it in my face on purpose...

[Caribbean Dad1]

The Paradise was a failure because it was the same ol' ports every time. People want change, they don't want the same thing every cruise......

 

Hootsie, I appreciate your position, but the facts are the facts (which have been debated to death on this board over the last few years.) If it was just a matter of changing the itinerary, Paradise would still be smoke free. Bottom line is just that, the bottom line. Paradise, as a whole, was a money looser, thus changed to allow smokers.

 

 

......There are many more non smokers than smokers, so you can't say an entire cruiseline would go under if they went non smoking.

 

Granted. But by removing roughly 30% of your customer base, you certainly are not going to be able to support 22 ships anymore.

[habby]

thanks for the note on RCL....i am just bummed about the music that's all...maybe i'll wear a pocket mask...mmm wouldn't that draw attention to myself...then people would blowing it in my face on purpose...

 

I can appreciate your concerns and desire to enjoy the entertainment. I think a pocket mask would be worth a try, and I think you'll find that (contrary to what some would like us to believe) smokers are considerate.

[habby]

Just curious,

 

how long was the Paradise sailing as a non-smoking ship?

[LHP]

The Paradise did not lose money. It simply did not meet the MARS of the other ships. In other words, it did not make enough money. If everyone who did not smoke stopped cruising period and gave the reason....watch how quickly things would change. But we don't do that and until we do, things will change, but just more slowly.

 

I would gladly do the same ports, if they had docked the Paradise other than in Miami. If she had been more centrally located, I would have cruised her exclusively. We drive to our ports (have only flown to 1 of the 12 to date) and we certainly don't want to drive to Miami every time. With flying getting more and more unpredictable and more of a zoo, more and more cruisers are driving to their ports. That is why Carnival has expanded to more ports over the years.

 

Secondly, when trying to attract large groups or even large families, there is probably always going to be "someone" in the group that smokes...which means the entire group was excluded from this ship. A better solution would have been to have smoking only on the back of the ship, in the library that no one uses and on the topless deck. Those 3 locations would have been an inconvenience, but as I have always said....the people with the addiction should be the ones inconvenienced. (Just like alcoholics don't have the right to drink and drive)

 

As for the balcony, it doesn't matter if the smoke is blowing at you at a slight breeze or 20 knots...it is still blowing all over you. Why do you think they constantly warn people not to throw lit cigs over the side of the ship...because the cig will come right back unto a balcony? The smoke will do the same thing from a side cabin. In our case, in Alaska, the ship was bearing moving because of the short distance it had to travel every day. There was not enough "force" to stop the smoke from the area below us.

 

I have always said in these discussions, if Carnival had put the money in a decent ventilation system on all their ships that they spent on the Paradise, everyone would be ahead of the game. If Walmart can have a nail salon at the front door and no one smells a thing when they walk in, then Carnival can install a decent vent/filtration system that can handle smoke.

 

Again, they won't do it will we (the consumer) make them.

[Caribbean Dad1]

The Paradise did not lose money. It simply did not meet the MARS of the other ships. In other words, it did not make enough money.

 

Meaning that, compared to the rest of the fleet, it was a money looser.

[wwakla]

thanks for the note on RCL....i am just bummed about the music that's all...maybe i'll wear a pocket mask...mmm wouldn't that draw attention to myself...then people would blowing it in my face on purpose...

 

 

I wouldn't be to bummed until you actually sail on the Pride. At one end of the Cigar lounge it is open into the atrium if I remember right. So you can sit near this open exit and enjoy. Not once did I walk through there and gag. Btw I hate the smell of cigars. Due to the location of our room we frequently went this way.

The other opens into the elevator area.

[gr1634]

I also don't think it is right for the govt to be able to take your waterfront property to build condos or a strip mall on - (better for the masses). The point is there has to be a limit to restricting peoples freedoms and the govts power. How ones feels about smoking on the ship - drinking (not driving), imminent domain etc obviously depends to a great deal on what chair you happen to be sitting in at the time. We don't have to agree - and thats OK. We have already kicked the smokers out of bowling alleys, resturants, offices and God only knows what else (depending on where you are) - I don't think we can kick them off the planet (outside). That "courtesy" we keep hearing about is a two way street. I for one will not vote for it to become one way.

[OCDACTIVE]

That "courtesy" we keep hearing about is a two way street..

 

Well put.. Society has deemed smokers as evil people...... We aren't.. So this doesn't give non-smokers the right to belittle us.. Not withstanding that it doesn't give us the right to force smoking on those who don't want to be around it either. As mentioned before most smokers are understanding and courtious to those around them. But if there are specific smoking areas (cigar bars) that are condusive to smokers, it is your choice to either suck it up or not enter the room. If the smoke intrudes elsewhere from that room, you issue is with Carnival not the smokers. We are only going where we have been asked to.

 

For example if I find blood and gore offensive, I won't be the first in line to buy a ticket to the next horror movie out in the theaters. Same thing.. If you don't like cigar smoke then don't walk through the cigar bar. Even if it is easier and faster for you, you are the one making the conscious choice to do it.

[Cotton]

Meaning that, compared to the rest of the fleet, it was a money looser.

 

Exactly.

 

There was an article in one of my travel magazines several months ago about the Paradise. One of the executive officers of Carnival Corp. (not B.Dickinson, but another guy) was quoted as saying something like...'We attempted this non-smoking cruise, but with the ship sailing at 3/4 capacity, had to revert her to being a ship allowing passengers to smoke."....don't recall exact words.

 

3/4 full sailings = MEGA loss in revenue. Had nothing to do with the itinerary.

[yogimax]

To me, this is a realistic solution...

 

1. All cabins non-smoking

2. CCL installs top of the line ventilation system in casino

3. Other than the casino and "cigar bar" all interior areas of the ship be designated non-smoking

4. Limited designated smoking areas on exterior decks

[Las Vegas Non Rev]

I was born and raised in las Vegas. The smoking debate is a very heated subject here as well. We have had completely non smoking hotel casinos, casinos split in 2, half smoking half non smoking. All have failed for the most part because you loose a good portion of your revenue. Even law suites filed by casino workers are not enough to stop the smoking in casinos. Courtesy on both sides is the key. You can not eliminate the "problem" completely. Just as I might not like the smell of your Cologne in an elevator. or the smell of you fish plate at dinner.(I understand these do not have health implications). However i did read that the smell of baking bread may cause Cancer. That is another issue. If my smoke bothers you i will be happy to put it out or move to a different location. All i ask is that you ask me and not tell me or make faces at me or start waving your hand while choking.

[OCDACTIVE]

To me, this is a realistic solution...

 

1. All cabins non-smoking

2. CCL installs top of the line ventilation system in casino

3. Other than the casino and "cigar bar" all interior areas of the ship be designated non-smoking

4. Limited designated smoking areas on exterior decks

 

Yogi, good ideas but not so much realistic:

 

1. all cabins??? you can't force someone to leave their room. If they pay for the cabin and aren't a social butterfly, you shouldn't be forced to leave. A better solution is smoking blocks of rooms.

 

2. CCL installs new vent system??? Thousands of dollars and having to retrofit a fleet??? Highly unrealistic

 

3. Not a bad idea.. but what about the piano bar / sports bar?

 

4. Designated smoking areas.. fine by me... (best idea you had)

[OCDACTIVE]

tell me[/b] or make faces at me or start waving your hand while choking.

 

GREAT LINE!!!.. Seriously those of you who do make the faces and a huge fuss by yelling, you are also making those around you more uncomfortable then the smokers. Lets be a bit more adult, shall we?

[yogimax]

Yogi, good ideas but not so much realistic:

 

1. all cabins??? you can't force someone to leave their room. If they pay for the cabin and aren't a social butterfly, you shouldn't be forced to leave. A better solution is smoking blocks of rooms.

 

2. CCL installs new vent system??? Thousands of dollars and having to retrofit a fleet??? Highly unrealistic

 

3. Not a bad idea.. but what about the piano bar / sports bar?

 

4. Designated smoking areas.. fine by me... (best idea you had)

 

o.k OCDACTIVE....

1. yes, I agree, blocks of rooms designated smoking and non-smoking. Hotels have done this with great success

 

2. land-based casinos have been able to accomplish this. If it brings more non-smokers into the casino it will pay for itself!

 

3. This could be negotiated

 

4. !

 

As you can see, there are realistic solutions. I appreciate your input!

[OCDACTIVE]

o.k OCDACTIVE....

1. yes, I agree, blocks of rooms designated smoking and non-smoking. Hotels have done this with great success

 

2. land-based casinos have been able to accomplish this. If it brings more non-smokers into the casino it will pay for itself!

 

3. This could be negotiated

 

4. !

 

As you can see, there are realistic solutions. I appreciate your input!

 

Wow Yogi!!! First time you and I have been able to negotiate anything...

 

Cheers!!!

[iluvdoxies]

Couldn't use the balcony because the people next door were smokers??? What happened to that 30kt wind blowing down the side of the ship? Did anyone think to ask the folks next door to share time if it was that big a problem? I am sorry - the balcony is OUTSIDE!!!

 

I know, give it a rest !

[gr1634]

It would appear from the above posting I have offended in some way one of our CC buds. Sorry about that. Thought we were all allowed our opinion. Touchie, touchie....

[OCDACTIVE]

I know, give it a rest !

 

Well if you read above (copied it for you below) that 30 Knot wind is not always there to take care of the problem:

 

I am a smoker as well, and I have friends who are allergic.. If you are outside on a balcony even with the wind (but who said they were moving) and the person next to you is down wind / allergic, it definately can make a difference.. But you are right, if they have a problem it isn't hard to lean over and ask when they will be done.

 

There was someone saying they couldn't use their balcony the WHOLE cruise because of smokers next to them. I think that is a bit of an exaggeration. But if it isn't, I say shame on them for not saying anything. Most people are very pleasant and would understand.

[iluvdoxies]

To me, this is a realistic solution...

 

1. All cabins non-smoking

2. CCL installs top of the line ventilation system in casino

3. Other than the casino and "cigar bar" all interior areas of the ship be designated non-smoking

4. Limited designated smoking areas on exterior decks

 

Get real.

Smokers have fewer and fewer places to smoke.

[OCDACTIVE]

Get real.

Smokers have fewer and fewer places to smoke.

 

I am quite real.. If you read above I am by far not saying that they should ban smoking from balconys, but they should block rooms so that this doesn't occur.

 

Also, before I pointed out, it isn't hard to lean over to your neighbors and ask what time they will be done.

 

I think those who say "I couldn't even go on my balcony" are full of it.

 

I am always more then willing to accomodate someone who is allergic. (other then in a cigar bar - they shouldn't have been there to begin with)